Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Redstain]

Genuinely, I do not understand this thing with Man Utd managers feeling like they have to 'come out and play.' It killed Ole, it killed Ten Hag, and its been killing Amorim.

When we played Oleball, when we were more defensive during Ten Hag's first season, when we keep it compact like we do in the big games, we just look better.

Its all well and good wanting to go on the offensive but if what you've got doesn't suit that, then you have to wait and do something different until you get the players to achieve a different result.

If someone has to put it into Amorim's head that he has to apologise for a less expansive approach that person needs talking to.

We would much prefer to defend deep and break to getting beat up by teams in the bottom half of the table.

I agree but I remember on the overlap Ole mentioning the need for the team to take the next step. You can't absorb pressure and hit on the counter when the impetus is on the team to break the opposition down that was the struggle with Ole.

He identified the right necessities to progress but he didn't have the coaching regiment / credentials to bring it to light. Plus signing Ronaldo was a mistake provisionally on the teams ability to break down low blocks. Should have either moved Greenwood across or signed a more mobile forward to have a fluid front three.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

You are wrong about this manager and I think next season you will see that.

There won't be any stupid signings in the summer. It'll be lots of Dorgu level buys in the 18-23 years of age range where they only have to pay 7-8 million up front. He'll also promote from the u18s and u21s.

Go look up what he did in his first summer at Sporting. 25 players out and made loads of very smart signings plus youth promotion to transform their fortunes.

United is a different animal to Sporting.
We had ETH who beat Madrid in 2019 at home in mesmerizing fashion and did collapse at United.

ETH won 15 home games. 15 games. And it was not enough at the end.
Can Amorim achieve that? From what he has shown?

 

[#07]

I agree but I remember on the overlap Ole mentioning the need for the team to take the next step. You can't absorb pressure and hit on the counter when the impetus is on the team to break the opposition down that was the struggle with Ole.

He identified the right necessities to progress but he didn't have the coaching regiment / credentials to bring it to light. Plus signing Ronaldo was a mistake provisionally on the teams ability to break down low blocks. Should have either moved Greenwood across or signed a more mobile forward to have a fluid front three.

I am not against the objective, I am against trying to reach the objective when you lack the players to make the next step.

Of course, us rolling back the close 15-20 years would be great and I'd love it. But its one thing to say it and another thing to do it.

If you look at your squad and you know you cannot play in that dominant fashion, then you have to keep bringing in new players until its possible.

Maybe it takes more windows, more time? At this point what difference does it make? Its not like Ole, Ten Hag and others trying to fast forward the process has taken us forward. In fact its probably taken us backwards. I don't think some of these have ever gotten over the losses we've had against Liverpool in the last few years. How can you convince a squad that's taken those kind of defeats that the club's headed in the right direction..?

I am not going to say we would have won the title playing counter attacking football. But think about how much harder its become to even convince top players to stay or sign for Man Utd. We're not looking likely for Champions League football soon, nevermind winning the damn thing. That might have been avoided by boring our way to 65-80 points for a few years until we could sign the guys to take us beyond that.

Amorim took over when we were 6 points off the top four. His decisions, seemingly under the weight of this Man Utd cannot play low block idea, have made that impossible. I think its right to question why the hell he even thought this was ever a good idea and to be relieved that sanity finally seems to have won out.

 

[NLunited]

I think the best way forward to improve the team is to focus on three priority signings with two further signings on the cheap. Personally I'd prioritise a CB, midfielder and a winger like Quenda and bring in a GK and a additional forward on the cheap for the short-term.

Striker, wingback/winger and a dangerous no 10 like Cunha is what we need most I think.

With Yoro/De Ligt/Martinez/Heaven/Mazraoui cb is sorted for now.

Buying an expensive cb won‘t help much if we are short on attacking threat.

 

[NoLogo]

Slowly making improvements and spotting players being better in certain positions such as Yoro on the left and Garnacho on the right. We obviously need more quality as we’re to predictable at the minute. Everything goes down Garnachos side whether he’s on the left or right.

Without Amad in the squad he seems to be the only one being able to carry the ball over some distance. Bruno to a lesser extend as well and I feel Yoro can do it as well from the back but I feel we need way more players able to make a run with the ball, which imo is also one of the main reasons we actually bought Dorgu, because he can actually carry the ball.

 

[quadrant]

Until we have the players to properly execute the idea.

I don't think we can just set an arbitrary number like after two years you should do X.

What if after two years you're still relying on Eriksen and Casemiro? Do you just say: 'F-k it. Lets just open up.' Fine. But then we have expect anyone with even an ounce of pace and power to go through the middle of our team like a week old curry.

Can anyone really say that its been acceptable to watch Ten Hag's donut midfield for a season and a half? Or watch Amorim be unable to win back-to-back in the league and drop down to the bottom half, even though we were six points off fourth when he was appointed?

Set the plan and try to deliver it. If for some reason you don't get the pieces to make it happen then, unfortunately, you gotta play the cards you're dealt not the ones you'd like to have.

Firstly, you will never replace an entire squad in a single season, so simply waiting til you have all the right players is a non-starter. You will have an extended period where you have a mix of styles in the squad and continue to have round square pegs in round holes, whatever you do.

Secondly, this ignores the fact that lots of players can lend themselves to multiple styles of football, but will get better at whatever style you spend most time training & playing. Assuming the squad is coached well, it will get better at playing progressive football the more it does it. Suddenly turning up to a single pre-season and saying "right now we want 60% possession every game" isn't going to work.

The transition has to happen, and the sooner the better. This mañana mentality is why we're struggling now to implement changes to our style of football that our rivals did 5 to 10 years ago.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I think the reason for this is obvious though, no? It's easier to set up and get inferior players to play a low block and hit on the counter. This is the only tactic that has worked for us for going on 6 years now. But when we have to come out, play some football and try to find ways through an opponent, things that require a bit more quality, we are suddenly way short.

I'm not saying this is always the problem, but I think this rings true for this current squad. To break down teams that sit in a low block you need players that can go past a man and ruin their organisation, good off the ball movement to create openings, incisive passing to exploit situations. This is where we are lacking and have been for a long time.

Issue is, if the squad is relegation level how comes it gets results against Liverpool, City and Arsenal in the same season?

As you've said it, the set-up is the problem. Who does the set-up?
How cames we cant replicate the urgency and craft we displayed at Anfield? The squad is the same i believe...

We have a poor squad but not a relegation squad. That i will stand on it for ever.
We play badly because of poor set-up and poor tactics. When players play by instincts we play better.

 

[NLunited]

This is going to be a much quieter thread until Thursday now that all the usual suspects can’t moan as usual

Arsenal had more shots against us than against PSV. We were way to accommodating in midfield.

 

[flappyjay]

I hope he doesnt make the mistake Ten Hag made. We need someone to help us progress play from deep and allow Bruno to play in one of the attacking positions. Teg Hag went the experiment route and got Mount. Amorim and the recruitment team should look for an actual central midfielder.

 

[R'hllor]

and this is why he deserves what ever is coming, earlier respected him and his stance to not sell out his principles even if it means him being sacked after month or two. When ever you trade your philosophy for survival, there is only one outcome in United, question is just when.

 

[#07]

Firstly, you will never replace an entire squad in a single season, so simply waiting til you have all the right players is a non-starter. You will have an extended period where you have a mix of styles in the squad and continue to have round square pegs in round holes, whatever you do.

Secondly, this ignores the fact that lots of players can lend themselves to multiple styles of football, but will get better at whatever style you spend most time training & playing. Assuming the squad is coached well, it will get better at playing progressive football the more it does it. Suddenly turning up to a single pre-season and saying "right now we want 60% possession every game" isn't going to work.

The transition has to happen, and the sooner the better. This mañana mentality is why we're struggling now to implement changes to our style of football that our rivals did 5 to 10 years ago.

What you're saying is fine in abstract but the last few coaches we have had have basically tested it to destruction. The idea you can just do it, or that players will adapt because they should be able to play multiple styles, might be true in principle. But in practice our squad has shown again and again that they're not able to do that in practice.

So then you have a choice: Keep trying to force things onto them and hope, or be a bit pragmatic until you can file out the players who cannot do what you want and replace them with players who can.

Nobody is saying you don't try to change but that you try to change when its feasible. At the moment the makeup of our squad points to evolution not revolution. If you can get rid of Casemiro and Eriksen and buy mobile, powerful, central midfielders. If you can let players like Lindelof go and bring in someone who's genuinely comfortable on the ball etc. Then you can change.

Just sending the guys out there and saying 'do it' doesn't deliver transition. It delivers poor results that undermine belief. Then you get a squad half-ar$ing it because they don't think they'll get results and it takes you back not forward.

Amorim has fallen into this trap and I think we need to cut him the slack to be pragmatic until summer, when the club might be able to deliver him the right kind of profiles. Not keep banging his head against the wall and being relieved at snatching wins against Ipswich and Southampton.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I agree but I remember on the overlap Ole mentioning the need for the team to take the next step. You can't absorb pressure and hit on the counter when the impetus is on the team to break the opposition down that was the struggle with Ole.

He identified the right necessities to progress but he didn't have the coaching regiment / credentials to bring it to light. Plus signing Ronaldo was a mistake provisionally on the teams ability to break down low blocks. Should have either moved Greenwood across or signed a more mobile forward to have a fluid front three.

Ole actually said this when he was our manager as well, he announced that he would try to move us to 433, which was the right move, but obviously he wasn't really hands on/he'd not really coached at the right level and Carrick/McKenna who ran training were both essentially highly rated new coaches.

I disagree on Ronaldo (not that I think he should have been signed, that was a terrible move clearly aimed to stop City from being able to monetise his brand in my opinion) purely because you can setup a press with one passenger. City do it with Haaland, Pool accommodate Salah. It's hard to have more than one, but it would have been possible to just start the press a bit deeper/be a bit more conservative. The issue is more that Ole was too trusting of Rashford and Greenwood - two players with very little interest in real off the ball defensive work and so he essentially deployed a front three with the work rate of PSG's infamous Messi/Neymar/Mbappe in a much harder league and without anywhere near the individual level of talent. Bruno was given free reign which helped offensively but often the front four were very little help to those behind them. Poor McFred.

We then saw the difference/importance of defensive running when a front three of Rashford/Wout/Antony (maybe our worst ever front three in terms of pure ability) proved extremely effective in its own quite limited way.

 

[#07]

I hope he doesnt make the mistake Ten Hag made. We need someone to help us progress play from deep and allow Bruno to play in one of the attacking positions. Teg Hag went the experiment route and got Mount. Amorim and the recruitment team should look for an actual central midfielder.

I would say its less on Amorim and more on the recruitment team.

Jason Wilcox et al should already be aware of who is definitely leaving in the summer, who they'd ideally want to sell in the summer, and what kind of profile would best suit how we want to play to replace those players.

Too often in the past we've let the first team coach influence who we buy or just gone for like for like i.e., we lose an attacking midfielder so we just go and buy an attacking midfielder.

When we knew we were going to lose Pogba we should not have signed Van de Beek. Likewise, when we decided Van de Beek was a bust we should not have signed Eriksen. A forward thinking recruitment team would've used those opportunities to re-evaluate the balance of the squad and gone: 'Steady on. Actually instead of buying another flighty attacking midfielder, why don't we bring in an actual box-to-box player.' I don't even think we would have had to go to the very top of the market. We could've picked up someone like Anguissa instead of letting him go to Napoli and rapidly transformed our team, just by adding pace and power in a key area.

I want INEOS to deliver what it promised: The footballing authorities at the club choose the style and the coach plays it. They should already have a destination point in mind and be bringing in the players to let the coach do his job. It should not be Amorim identifying the players, just like it shouldn't have been Ten Hag etc.

Amorim's best chance of being a success is if the club gets its act together and buys the tools he needs. But he shouldn't be part of that process. We need to end this idea of 'the manager gets his players.'

 

[OnceUponAFan]

Issue is, if the squad is relegation level how comes it gets results against Liverpool, City and Arsenal in the same season?

As you've said it, the set-up is the problem. Who does the set-up?
How cames we cant replicate the urgency and craft we displayed at Anfield? The squad is the same i believe...

We have a poor squad but not a relegation squad. That i will stand on it for ever.
We play badly because of poor set-up and poor tactics. When players play by instincts we play better.

So you don't think it was Amorim's set up that got us the results in those games and his tactics? Amorim wants to play a different brand of football that low block, counter attacking. Just as United fans do and just as ETH and Ole wanted to do in the seasons that got them sacked. United can't continue to play the underdog and it doesnt work again smaller teams.

Our squad is currently comfortable playing in the low block and this needs to change. That is on the recruitment and the manager. But that won't happen until the players are changed. I don't think it requires big personnel changes. I think it takes 3/4 key changes and Amorim will be able to get his players playing the way he wants.

The mid to high-line tactics aren't suited to the current set of players which is exacerbated by the injuries. You seem to think the solution it to get rid of the manager that can play that way and get a manager that will forever have us playing how the current squad is comfortable which is defensive, low block football.

For an example of how quickly things can change with the same manager, over a window, with a few purchases, just look at Forest.

 

[pocco]

Issue is, if the squad is relegation level how comes it gets results against Liverpool, City and Arsenal in the same season?

As you've said it, the set-up is the problem. Who does the set-up?
How cames we cant replicate the urgency and craft we displayed at Anfield? The squad is the same i believe...

We have a poor squad but not a relegation squad. That i will stand on it for ever.
We play badly because of poor set-up and poor tactics. When players play by instincts we play better.

Because when we play Liverpool, Arsenal and City, they dominate possession and it lends itself well to playing on the counter. They push high, look to break us down (as we try and fail vs smaller teams) and therefore leave themselves open.

I do think the players lower their level against smaller teams to an extent. Is it the setup? The setup is the same for me, the urgency is often lacking, the players look like they aren't as focused at times too and make individual errors in different parts of the pitch which either cost goals/chances or ruin potential attacks that we have. To me these same issues have existed for a long time now. I can't say if Amorim could do more or not, it must be frustrating for him to see players give the ball away so cheaply in dangerous areas for us, ruining attacks. Zirkzee has been a prime culprit at times recently, he will find space well between the lines, we'll pass the ball in to him and he will either miscontrol or control but then pass straight to the opposition. How can you ever see how this system will look if we fail to take the opportunities that the setup allows?

The squad isn't relegation standard if used for what it was built for (4231, tranisitonal team) but even then it wasn't a great squad and was getting exploited in many different ways by everyone we played. Unfortunately we added another issue into the mix though by hiring a manager with a completely different system. Which is fine if the club believes in the system and is commited to reshaping the squad. But we have to live with the reality of this situation until we can add some players that fill in the gaps a little.

 

[OnceUponAFan]

and this is why he deserves what ever is coming, earlier respected him and his stance to not sell out his principles even if it means him being sacked after month or two. When ever you trade your philosophy for survival, there is only one outcome in United, question is just when.

Because he's got an injury depleted squad and doesn't want to get battered against the big teams in big games?

Amorim is rightly using the word survive because we need to get to the summer, get a few players in and spend time on the training ground implementing his style. See Forest for an example of what can change with a summer.

As Amorim has said, if we don't get results (which we wont with his style, with this current set of players, at this time), then the players themselves will stop believing and he'll be out the door before he even reaches the summer. In games against smaller teams he is still clearly trying to implement his way of playing to get the players used to it but these players are too used to and too comfortable in a low block. We need some players back from injury, some players to come in in the summer and some time on the training ground. The last two managers failed when trying to move from the low block to a higher defensive line and ultimately got sacked. One of the reasons was recruitment. But I think we can see from the purchases of Dorgu, Yoro, Heaven, Ugarte and Leon, that we are recruiting to be able to play more on the front foot with a young aggressive defensive line. This isn't too disimilar to the changes in personnel Amorim went through during his first summer. Replacing regular starters with younger players that can play his way.

This won't change during the season and Amorim needs to be able to get enough points to still be in the job come the summer.

 

[Lemon Custard]

and this is why he deserves what ever is coming, earlier respected him and his stance to not sell out his principles even if it means him being sacked after month or two. When ever you trade your philosophy for survival, there is only one outcome in United, question is just when.

eh? You think Fergie would always put 'principles' ahead of getting good results? He was pragmatic when he needed to be.

 

[NLunited]

This man has a plan unlike many of his predecessors.

The management isn’t stupid, if this time next season he’s still struggling, he’s a goner but in the same vein, they will surely back him in the summer with a few key signings and give him the best chance possible because Amorim definitely is the profile of coach we need to take United forward.

A bit naive to think the previous managers didn‘t have a plan. Of course they did, they had plans within plans on top of plans.

Amorim is definitely the right profile, that is not in question.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Players don't raise their level against the likes of City, Liverpool and Arsenal etc. It just so happens that in such games we don't have to worry about rhythm, tempo, control and how to move defences from side to side to create openings.

 

[RedSky]

Need to get him a striker than can score goals at the very least. Are we the only team in the league who don't have that?

​

Being slightly cruel here using the sort to make a point. This is data taken from Whoscored. This shows every player who's played in the FWD position, i've included anyone with 270+ mins. Sorted it by minutes per shot.

​

Player​	Club​	Mins​	Goals​	Min P Goal​	Shots​	Shots OT %​	Min P Shot​
Raúl Jiménez​	Fulham​	1696​	10​	170​	71​	36.62%​	24​
Erling Haaland​	Manchester City​	2394​	20​	120​	99​	57.58%​	24​
Rodrigo Muniz​	Fulham​	451​	1​	451​	17​	29.41%​	27​
Darwin Núñez​	Liverpool​	630​	3​	210​	23​	43.48%​	27​
Nicolas Jackson​	Chelsea​	1716​	9​	191​	62​	50.00%​	28​
Diogo Jota​	Liverpool​	689​	2​	345​	24​	16.67%​	29​
Alexander Isak​	Newcastle​	1984​	19​	104​	68​	50.00%​	29​
Ollie Watkins​	Aston Villa​	1964​	13​	151​	67​	49.25%​	29​
Beto​	Everton​	605​	5​	121​	19​	68.42%​	32​
Yoane Wissa​	Brentford​	1919​	12​	160​	59​	47.46%​	33​
Evanilson​	Bournemouth​	1400​	5​	280​	43​	51.16%​	33​
Luis Díaz​	Liverpool​	821​	3​	274​	25​	40.00%​	33​
Dango Ouattara​	Bournemouth​	614​	4​	154​	18​	50.00%​	34​
Dominic Calvert-Lewin​	Everton​	1479​	3​	493​	43​	37.21%​	34​
Paul Onuachu​	Southampton​	591​	1​	591​	17​	41.18%​	35​
Gabriel Jesus​	Arsenal​	488​	3​	163​	14​	42.86%​	35​
Dominic Solanke​	Tottenham​	1691​	7​	242​	48​	43.75%​	35​
Kai Havertz​	Arsenal​	1694​	7​	242​	48​	37.50%​	35​
Danny Welbeck​	Brighton​	1415​	6​	236​	38​	34.21%​	37​
Jarrod Bowen​	West Ham​	682​	3​	227​	18​	44.44%​	38​
Lucas Paquetá​	West Ham​	270​	1​	270​	7​	14.29%​	39​
Liam Delap​	Ipswich​	2098​	9​	233​	53​	47.17%​	40​
Jean-Philippe Mateta​	Crystal Palace​	2083​	12​	174​	52​	46.15%​	40​
Bryan Mbeumo​	Brentford​	540​	4​	135​	13​	53.85%​	42​
Joshua Zirkzee​	Manchester United​	587​	2​	294​	14​	57.14%​	42​
Cameron Archer​	Southampton​	802​	1​	802​	19​	26.32%​	42​
João Pedro​	Brighton​	932​	4​	233​	22​	50.00%​	42​
Chris Wood​	Nottingham Forest​	2255​	18​	125​	51​	58.82%​	44​
Son Heung-Min​	Tottenham​	270​	2​	135​	6​	100.00%​	45​
Michail Antonio​	West Ham​	736​	1​	736​	16​	18.75%​	46​
Jamie Vardy​	Leicester​	2146​	7​	307​	44​	43.18%​	49​
Leandro Trossard​	Arsenal​	473​	1​	473​	9​	33.33%​	53​
Jørgen Strand Larsen​	Wolves​	1874​	6​	312​	35​	68.57%​	54​
Rasmus Højlund​	Manchester United​	1227​	2​	614​	13​	53.85%​	94​

TLDR:

Rasmus Højlund:
Mins Per Goal: 614 (ranked 32nd/34)
Mins Per Shot: 94 (ranked 34th/34)
Shots OT %: 53.85% (Ranked 8th/34)

Joshua Zirkzee
Mins Per Goal: 294 (Ranked 24th/34)
Mins Per Shot: 42 (Ranked 25th/34)
Shots OT %: 57.14% (Ranked 6th/34)

 

[SoCross]

A bit naive to think the previous managers didn‘t have a plan. Of course they did, they had plans within plans on top of plans.

Amorim is definitely the right profile, that is not in question.

Correct, I may have exaggerated my words there. Point I was trying to make is that it’s clear what he is trying to implement on the pitch, a structure, a system within which players will be fitted in.

There wasn’t as this much of an emphasis on a system by previous managers.

 

[Santos J]

Need to get him a striker than can score goals at the very least. Are we the only team in the league who don't have that?

Southampton would give us a run for our money but other than that yeah I'd say so, maybe West Ham if you don't count Bowen

 

[stevoc]

and this is why he deserves what ever is coming, earlier respected him and his stance to not sell out his principles even if it means him being sacked after month or two. When ever you trade your philosophy for survival, there is only one outcome in United, question is just when.

Only an idiot would never adapt their tactics based on opposition and players available.

 

[GaryLifo]

United is a different animal to Sporting.
We had ETH who beat Madrid in 2019 at home in mesmerizing fashion and did collapse at United.

ETH won 15 home games. 15 games. And it was not enough at the end.
Can Amorim achieve that? From what he has shown?

The question is whether he can have a much better season next season that sees us finish much higher up the table and scoring more goals. I think he can do that, yes.

 

[Insanity]

Yoro, Heaven, De Ligt and Mazraoui all have enough pace to play a high line.

One of the main reasons we don't play a high line is because we lose the possession battle and naturally retreat, not because our centre halves are slow.

de Ligt and Maz are not fast. Yoro and Heaven don't play centrally and have little experience.

We definitely are not successful playing the high line because our CB's, especially CCB's, are slow and lack agility. They do not have recovery pace and are afraid to get countered. This is why teams find so much gap between our midfield and the defense to exploit. They cannot cover large spaces and leave us vulnerable.

It should be one of the top priorities if we hope to become a team capable of playing on the front foot.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

He has changes his system. He goes very conservative at times.

Like ETH He can get a performance against a top team. Both don't realize that the average PL team can destroy a 2 man midfield.

This is why I'm very critical of Bruno despite knowing how good he can be. You can't have him in a midfield. Yes he can have some key moments. But the result WILL ALWAYS be getting completely overrun with zero control.

This system can work but we need 2 absolutely top class Midfielders and 2 top class WB who are creative and athletic and intelligent.

This is the biggest summer since 2006. And we have no money. I hope our scouts are prepared.

 

[Insanity]

Players don't raise their level against the likes of City, Liverpool and Arsenal etc. It just so happens that in such games we don't have to worry about rhythm, tempo, control and how to move defences from side to side to create openings.

It's really that simple but extremely hard to explain on here.

 

[hobbers]

​

Rasmus Højlund:
Mins Per Goal: 614 (ranked 32nd/34)
Mins Per Shot: 94 (ranked 34th/34)
Shots OT %: 53.85% (Ranked 8th/34)

Joshua Zirkzee
Mins Per Goal: 294 (Ranked 24th/34)
Mins Per Shot: 42 (Ranked 25th/34)
Shots OT %: 57.14% (Ranked 6th/34)

And this is why it's correct to say that our two forwards are relegation standard and wouldnt even get on the pitch if they played for Wolves or Everton.

Even a Delap or Welbeck would see us into the top 10 with the chances Hojlund and Zirkzee miss and what they lack in build up.

 

[sammyhol]

I am not against the objective, I am against trying to reach the objective when you lack the players to make the next step.

Of course, us rolling back the close 15-20 years would be great and I'd love it. But its one thing to say it and another thing to do it.

If you look at your squad and you know you cannot play in that dominant fashion, then you have to keep bringing in new players until its possible.

Maybe it takes more windows, more time? At this point what difference does it make? Its not like Ole, Ten Hag and others trying to fast forward the process has taken us forward. In fact its probably taken us backwards. I don't think some of these have ever gotten over the losses we've had against Liverpool in the last few years. How can you convince a squad that's taken those kind of defeats that the club's headed in the right direction..?

I am not going to say we would have won the title playing counter attacking football. But think about how much harder its become to even convince top players to stay or sign for Man Utd. We're not looking likely for Champions League football soon, nevermind winning the damn thing. That might have been avoided by boring our way to 65-80 points for a few years until we could sign the guys to take us beyond that.

Amorim took over when we were 6 points off the top four. His decisions, seemingly under the weight of this Man Utd cannot play low block idea, have made that impossible. I think its right to question why the hell he even thought this was ever a good idea and to be relieved that sanity finally seems to have won out.

I couldn't agree with this sentiment more.

Let's have it right.... ETH just got it completely wrong in the summer after his first full year. It was the time for baby steps progression, not a complete revolution in the style of play.

The vast majority of fans we calling for the same solution. We needed a midfielder with legs to sit alongside Casemiro or Eriksen in the double pivot, and a striker with pace.

Now Hojlund arguably hasnt worked out, but it was at least an understandable player profile. Where he got it all wrong was signing Mount as the midfield solution and ripping up the low block 4231 for his kamikaze high press 41(huge gap)41.

Had he had simply gone evolution not revolution we undoubtedly would have faired better.

 

[Insanity]

And this is why it's correct to say that our two forwards are relegation standard and wouldnt even get on the pitch if they played for Wolves or Everton.

Even a Delap or Welbeck would see us into the top 10 with the chances Hojlund and Zirkzee miss and what they lack in build up.

That's why I wanted a striker as a top priority before a LWB in January, if only had financial space to get one (loan or purchase). Unfortunately, that didn't materialize and we are continuing to suffer.

 

[VP89]

Yes, he was dropped by Tuchel and he was not happy about it. I think at different points he was dropped for different reasons. First time Tuchel mentioned his passing between the lines not being as good as their other CBs, which I can agree with. Second time I believe he was dropped for Dier due to him being better in the higher line.

He's not rapid by any means, he gave away a dangerous freekick yesterday because he couldn't keep up with the Arsenal player and brought him down on the edge of the box. He gets beaten in little 2-3m races too often where he is slow to turn. His positioning is something that has been criticised about him for years but I think Amorim has got him a bit better coordinated recently.

Yes, he was dropped by Tuchel and he was not happy about it. I think at different points he was dropped for different reasons. First time Tuchel mentioned his passing between the lines not being as good as their other CBs, which I can agree with. Second time I believe he was dropped for Dier due to him being better in the higher line.

He's not rapid by any means, he gave away a dangerous freekick yesterday because he couldn't keep up with the Arsenal player and brought him down on the edge of the box. He gets beaten in little 2-3m races too often where he is slow to turn. His positioning is something that has been criticised about him for years but I think Amorim has got him a bit better coordinated recently.

Do you have the figures to hand in terms of how many games MDL was actually dropped for? If I'm not mistaken he had about 22 appearances and missed 5 from injury. He was dropped in Feb from a quick online scan and then reintroduced if I'm not mistaken (the Bayern fans were confused by this too, it reads like the time Ten Hag dropped Varane to the bemusement of our own fans).

Regarding the 2-3m races, this is for most center backs. It doesn't mean they're all unsuited to a high line. It's also about positioning and being quick on a turn and on a transition (ie being able to make up ground over a longer patch too). De Ligt is actually surprisingly explosive in some recoveries.

 

[mctrials23]

He is changing at this point because he realises that his survival as manager is on the line and I think he has simply run out of ideas on how to get the players available to him to do what he is asking. Football is a team sport and if 2-3 of your keys players can't or won't do what you are asking then you can't play a certain way.

When he has said he won't abandon his principles I think he was still of the opinion that these players just needed it to click. I think he has now realised that they simply aren't going to adapt in too many cases. When your WBs won't cross, your 10s won't run with the ball or beat a man and your entire team seems intent on making at least one goal costing feck up every game, something has to give. When almost all the players who vaguely can do what you want are injured, something has to give.

Hes just finally hit that point where hes realised that his current job is to survive until the summer, test some of the youth players, salvage anything he can EL wise and hope to get the signings he needs come summer.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Because when we play Liverpool, Arsenal and City, they dominate possession and it lends itself well to playing on the counter. They push high, look to break us down (as we try and fail vs smaller teams) and therefore leave themselves open.

I do think the players lower their level against smaller teams to an extent. Is it the setup? The setup is the same for me, the urgency is often lacking, the players look like they aren't as focused at times too and make individual errors in different parts of the pitch which either cost goals/chances or ruin potential attacks that we have. To me these same issues have existed for a long time now. I can't say if Amorim could do more or not, it must be frustrating for him to see players give the ball away so cheaply in dangerous areas for us, ruining attacks. Zirkzee has been a prime culprit at times recently, he will find space well between the lines, we'll pass the ball in to him and he will either miscontrol or control but then pass straight to the opposition. How can you ever see how this system will look if we fail to take the opportunities that the setup allows?

The squad isn't relegation standard if used for what it was built for (4231, tranisitonal team) but even then it wasn't a great squad and was getting exploited in many different ways by everyone we played. Unfortunately we added another issue into the mix though by hiring a manager with a completely different system. Which is fine if the club believes in the system and is commited to reshaping the squad. But we have to live with the reality of this situation until we can add some players that fill in the gaps a little.

Again... 433 of Madrid or 433 of City or 433 of Arsenal or 433 of Klopp, 433 Barca team

are all different ball game.. teams play in the image of the manager.
Klopp will press like maniac, Pep will keep the ball, Madrid will tackle the games as it goes.

Whatever name we put on Amorim setup or system, he is very defensive. Too defensive.
This is supported by too many metrics.

1. Yesterday is the first game since December 1st. 2024 we scored in first half in PL. Thats more than 3 months of PL football.
2. Amorim has managed 17 PL games he has managed 19 points. Thats a draw a game. 2 more games we are half of a season game mark. Yet he will be 20 point mark.
3. Amorim has not won 2 consecutive PL games since he arrived here. Just 2 games. Thats is in around 156 days. 5 months.


Leave the arguments angels, just look at those statistics.
Even at our worst of worst period, we have never experienced a 20 points in 20 games period.
Whatever Amorim is doing is not delivering, sadly its not players for this shit period. People will not agree but this squad if set-up with right balance in attack and defence we should win half of our games.


4231 by ETH achieved 15 home wins.

Can Amorim win 15 home games? Do you believe he can? From what he has been showing?

Also, what will it take to get back to just winning 15 home games? The money, squad revamp, pain through it..

In that, it would have been cheaper to remain how we were because the cost needed to return to where Ole and ETH had us on ( position 2 and 3) will be huge yet its not even guaranteed Amorim will achieve those heights.

Let nobody cheat you that Amorim will be a success, all indicators are pointing to him failing.

ETH used to win 15 home games in a season and failed but Amorim who doesn't win 2 games back to back in 5 months will be a success .