All I wanted was for him to play players in their best positions. Especially full backs because they are critical to the formation he likes. Seems he did that for the Spurs game and we looked better so i'm okay now with being more patient.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
So you actually knew..wait, ETH knew McTominay's preferred position?
That is shocking.
And so.. Maguire and McTominay preferred positions are in the opposition box, waiting for the ball to be hoofed their way? Genius, Amorim should make us play like this!!!
It's more you trying to claim last season was fortunate because of last minute winners whilst ignoring that the players who scored were set up for success in that formation. Ignoring your exaggeration of where players played of course.
Even if we consider the formation that Amorim has embedded he's made a couple of stinkers in his own decision making - be it Hojlund trusted up front over Zirkzee, Maz and Dalot being persisted together as wingbacks or musical chair decisions at CB. I wonder if whether he played a more settled and suited selection we would be more comfortable as a team.
If this is true. I really cant be bothered anymore. Not like we can afford to anyway
Ahhh so they’re shite then, thank the lord
So who are our candidates?
What are you on about? McTominay scored his injury time winners when he was thrown up top as an auxiliary striker. That wasn’t playing a formation to “set him up for success” that was a fecking Hail Mary. We know this because whenever ETH actually picked a formation around McTominay as a starter it involved playing him in central midfield. Usually to not much success. Hence we ended up selling McTominay.
Meh, shite source but what does it even matter. The club is in a dire state regardless.
We have a goalkeeper that throws the ball into the net once a game and strikers that don't score goals. Not a great combination, oh and 7 defensive players in a shit formation that will never work doesn't help.
Well you can argue that Amorim sets up Garnacho for success but he keeps missing chances.
When starting McT, he put him further forward as a 10 last season. In the games you referred to yeah, he was put up top in the context of the game in question. In both scenarios it's suiting the strength of his player which is what you'd generally expect a manager to do when navigating a football match.
I dont think Garnacho is in his best position. But yeah in this system he's probably most suited to the 10, just doing a bit poorly with it.
Pray tell, what is the equivalent to throwing a big up top when desperately chasing a game that Amorim hasn’t done which has your knickers in a twist? Because he sure as shit can’t throw McTominay up there, seeing as he was sold before Amorim took over.
Hervé Renard and Marcelino.
Great. What about the rest?
Calm down, I don't know why you're so worked up.
Under Amorim we have chronically been far too ponderous with our buildup and not direct when we need to chase a game. If you take the last match for example, he decided to put a striker on at 90minutes.
The 17 year old argument holds water in isolation but not when the player he'd replace is one who would probably struggle in Championship level football.
Amorim is stylistically too safe thus far. His back 3 is actually a back 5 and we are far too lethargic in our play.
Ugarte and Yoro was much needed signings and improve us. Zirkzee is wasted and we needed a proper goalscorer as we struggled for goals last year aswell. De Ligt hasn’t been that bad and mazaroui has been a decent signing, he was cheap and as been one of our better consistent players.
There’s hope that this changes next season though. He hasn’t had a proper spending window yet. Bring in Quenda or a winger to play the wing back position then this already changes to a more attack minded team.
I have that hope. Im thinking hel make the step up after he gets some players in and then be brave in our style of football. Right now I wish he just went for games more though, becuase if we still yielded the same results at least I think we went for the game
Ugarte is overrated, Yoro is only potential.
The speed of play is on Amorim, but is that also a tactical approach to our lack of pace and physicality?
We have been better defensively, with a lot of our goals conceded coming from errors, can't coach for mistakes that lead directly to goals, eg Onana at the weekend.
The team has created chances, not the amount City or Liverpool do but enough to score at least 1 a game, apart from shooting for him what do you expect him to do about Garnacho missing every big change he gets or not passing the ball to open players, instead shooting over the bar and losing our momentum.
That being said he isn't full absolved, we clearly have issues and he is clearly learning the PL and about his own coaching abilities, doesn't mean we can't give him some time, even if we got Iraola in peoples next choice, he would need time to play a modern style of football with this crap squad, he didn't win his first game till 28th Oct in which time he got beat by Everton 3-0.
I am not saying Amorim is the messiah, but lets be fecking realistic, we have spend over 1 Billion on sh1te, that half aren't even here anymore or the ones that are still here, are the reason we are where we are in the league.
Giving him 300 million like he picks all the players anymore, he is our 1st Head Coach the transfers will be decided by head of recruitment and Technical Director, of course he will have final say on the player, what manager would play a player that they didn't want, we are clearly looking for technical athletes as shown so far by Dorgu.
The results do need to improve, but just because we have Manchester United on the badge doesn't mean we deserve anything, the players have shown Amorim their true colours and the early removal of players in Jan show we are culling this squad, it all comes down to the summer, can we get the right players in not just for his system but can play any system.
I have faith and think he needs time whoever is in charge needs time with this shower of sh1te.
But what if McTominay missed those chances? As Garnacho has this season.
The only way his formation can be in any way attacking is if he has wing backs that are capable of bombarding forward and creating chances. He hasn’t had that so far at United, maybe Dorgu will help and when/if we get Quenda in the Summer it should also add to that. This can’t succeed with Mazraoui or Dalot at wing back because they are completely incapable of playing the role.
Still though, similar to how we were always 1 injury away from collapsing under ETH, seems like it will be a recurring theme under Amorim because he can’t / is unwilling to adapt. So even if we are indeed great with the upgraded squad next year, and injury to Dorgu or Quenda or Ugarte or any other key player could immediately throw us back to where we are now. We would need to build him a squad of 22 players.
He can also coach his players to be more vertical in the buildup play and not be so ponderous in horizontal passes. Even recycling the ball at a quicker rate is something that can disorganize the opposition. We do none of this.
Normally I would agree but a lot of our struggles under Amorim can be linked to him changing the system/formation mid-season.
Now as naive a decision as I think it was to attempt that in a new country/league you've never even played in never mind managed with a team who's had its confidence destroyed by the previous manager.
The club chose to hire him and knew he was going to do it. So they at least need to let him have a preseason. But as I said he should be on a very short leash next season. If after 6-10 games it looks like nothing has changed then the club need to act. And hopefully this time they have someone lined up.
Agree and it largely is that simple. Whatever the formation the wide players aren't good enough. It was the same last season and the year before. We just haven't done anything about it.
We could go back to 4231 but the same issue would be there. In an attacking sense both flanks, incl wingers and fullbacks aren't good enough.
Sort that and a new goalkeeper. We won't be winning a champions league but we'd be so much better.
Can't be true. Not sure we can afford to sack him.
Well going off performances we were definitely fortunate to finish 8th. Ten Hags bonkers system left us relying on individual brilliance to scrape a load of our wins.
The majority of our squad are good enough for a top 6 finish at the very least. The players have vastly underperformed last season and this season.
Even if I believe he deserves a pre-season, he deserves to choose who comes in and who is sold, it is a big risk, considering how bad we are doing/playing right now. If, things start to click, by the time this season ends the yes, he deserves credit and to manage us next season also.
Also, I imagine it would be quite difficult to "line up" another manager. Usually good managers already have a contract and who doesn't may sign for someone until we decide to sack Amorim. We might end up with a caretaker or a manager who happens to be free at that time, which again, will mean a lost season(we have the Rangnick period as an example).
We are in a bad spot right now and we are making it difficult for any manager to have results, let's just try to get out of this slump and again at least be a 6-8th(at worst) league table team. Going upwards from there would be much easier than getting out from the situation we are in right now.
Up until now I don't know which fan can say: "I'm happy with Amorim, he is better than I anticipated" or " We are on the right track with him".
I mean, if you think the opposite of 'all of the players' is 'none of the players', I can't help you.
I totally agree that our in-game tactics, speed of play etc are on Amorim.
But Ineos insisted on him coming mid-season, Amorim himself wanted to wait until the summer, probably be cause he knew completely changing a system mid-way through a season would result in things going from bad to worse in the short term. That's on Ineos. It's also on Ineos that they didn't get rid of ETH and bring a new manager in during the summer so that any change in system / personnel could be given time to bed in. It's also on Ineos that not only did they not make the change in management, they then threw £200million at players for a manager that was inevitably going to be out the door a few months later.
If we go back to 2005 when the leaches came in, we've had mis-management after mis-management. Ineos coming in was supposed to be the turning point. So far they've made exactly the same mistakes.
I do think in Amorim they've made a good decision to hire him, but he needs time to embed his system and bring in players he needs and by god if they get rid of him before giving him some actual time then we might as well all give up and go home.
But Ineos insisted on him coming mid-season, Amorim himself wanted to wait until the summer, probably be cause he knew completely changing a system mid-way through a season would result in things going from bad to worse in the short term. That's on Ineos. It's also on Ineos that they didn't get rid of ETH and bring a new manager in during the summer so that any change in system / personnel could be given time to bed in. It's also on Ineos that not only did they not make the change in management, they then threw £200million at players for a manager that was inevitably going to be out the door a few months later.
If we go back to 2005 when the leaches came in, we've had mis-management after mis-management. Ineos coming in was supposed to be the turning point. So far they've made exactly the same mistakes.
I do think in Amorim they've made a good decision to hire him, but he needs time to embed his system and bring in players he needs and by god if they get rid of him before giving him some actual time then we might as well all give up and go home.
I believe so too but there are many on here who would rather think teams like Forrest have better squads than us.. just because of form.
Its modern football, judge based on now, which is also the trouble in the transfer window. A player has a good 6 months and is 60m.. look at Marmoush for example, not spoken about in the summer, City paid 80m.
The revisionism on Elanga when you look at his stats, he is worse than all our forwards.
At least 10 other teams would say the same.
Other than Bruno our midfield and forwards have done nothing to prove they are top 6 PL level. Neither has Onana. We have some CBs of that level and that's it.
How is he overrated? You can see what a proper DM does to this team when we play in big games against city etc and we’re not as open.
Maybe. But our forward line is championship level. Can’t score or create enough goals.
We have a bare bones squad with very little individual brilliance, a severe lack of physicality and a systemic problem of poor attitude and application, ether with Amorim or with somebody else this squad needs a full reboot, INEOS have started the process but without free reign to spend it is a long, painful and necessary ordeal.
I think Hoijlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Mainoo, Yoro and Amad have untapped potential but there is no way they are going to achieve it in an unstable squad which lacks quality
Collyer, Maz, Dalot, DeLigt are all middle of the road players, great for a functioning squad but are not going to progress a team
Bruno and Ugarte are either MOTM or atrocious
Maquire is a good defender but just slows everything down and cannot play a high line
Eriksen, Case, Lindelof are done
Martinez is good but is falling into the sick note category with Shaw and Mount
Which of our players (other than the young ones with potential) get anywhere near a top team's 1st 11, we have to be realistic and hope we can scrape by and ride the storm until Amorim or another manager has time to bring in/develop some backbone to allow the talent we do have to improve
I think Hoijlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Mainoo, Yoro and Amad have untapped potential but there is no way they are going to achieve it in an unstable squad which lacks quality
Collyer, Maz, Dalot, DeLigt are all middle of the road players, great for a functioning squad but are not going to progress a team
Bruno and Ugarte are either MOTM or atrocious
Maquire is a good defender but just slows everything down and cannot play a high line
Eriksen, Case, Lindelof are done
Martinez is good but is falling into the sick note category with Shaw and Mount
Which of our players (other than the young ones with potential) get anywhere near a top team's 1st 11, we have to be realistic and hope we can scrape by and ride the storm until Amorim or another manager has time to bring in/develop some backbone to allow the talent we do have to improve
He is rated over his abilities, we are as open with or without him. Teams go through our midfield with the same ease.