Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

MCDC said:
I am not saying that Amorim is going to turn it around but he needs at least a pre season and some better players, if it doesn't work by November or at least show some form of progress then the discussion on changing could start.

Fergie is and will always be the greatest manager of all time but his first squad did contain:

Gordon Strachan
Paul McGrath
Bryan Robson
Norman Whiteside
Frank Stapleton

These are far better player than we have now, take nothing away from what Fergie achieved, but how many of our players are on the level of some of these?

This is the worst squad we have had in certainly the PL area, cannot comment past then, with the injury to Amad, Garnacho is our best attacker, every time he gets in front of goal it's more like a rugby conversion than a shot.

The truth is we are so far off it, no one is waving a magic wand and turning us around, it is going to be sh1t before it gets better, at least let the man who has seen these players for what they truly are and won't be fooled by the time pre season comes around shift some on.

If he doesn't work at least he will have started the work for the next manager.
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That's kind of beside the point for two reasons, first the point was about SAF improving things immediately which he did unlike what many are claiming, he took over a team that was deep into a relegation battle. The second point is that while it's true that the current team is maybe the worst that we have in the PL era it's not actually a point to make because the expectation isn't to win the league with relative ease and go far in the CL, the expectation is to be a respectable EL spot contender or at least midtable team.

As for your last point would you say the same thing about ETH at the start of October 2024?
 
UnitedSofa said:
You know what? I actually agree with you on something for once ;)

When put in perspective in Antony’s case specifically, it is his own fault.

But there has been other examples of players going elsewhere and excelling, McTominay being the most recent example, not all do well of course, but the atmosphere must be pretty rancid.
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Scott was actually pretty good for us as well. I do think it’s a lot negative going on inside the club that does not help our players.

I do believe we will get out of this dark hole eventually, but it’s going to be a long and difficult process.
 
stevoc said:
Yeah I remember it didn't work out well. 96-97 seen a lot of experimentation with formations, I can remember 352 vs Sunderland with Phil Neville man marking Michael Gray. And 433 away to Arsenal off the top of my head.
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I don't think it was Arsenal, because Cantona was suspended that day and we played with Cole and Solskjaer upfront. But we did play 433 against Porto and Dortmund and it worked very well (even though we missed all those chances against Dortmund).

I think the attitude towards Fergie's tactics is mostly due to him not being a tactical innovator. Which is probably true, but who cares.
 
UnitedSofa said:
You know what? I actually agree with you on something for once ;)

When put in perspective in Antony’s case specifically, it is his own fault.

But there has been other examples of players going elsewhere and excelling, McTominay being the most recent example, not all do well of course, but the atmosphere must be pretty rancid.
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We shouldn’t be despondent that players go elsewhere and do well.

£25m is not a small fee for Italian clubs these days - and he’s gone from a squad player to one that’s a first team regular.

If we were letting the likes of De Byrne or Salah go then there would be some remorse. However, it’s good to see players go on and do well.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
We shouldn’t be despondent that players go elsewhere and do well.

£25m is not a small fee for Italian clubs these days - and he’s gone from a squad player to one that’s a first team regular.

If we were letting the likes of De Byrne or Salah go then there would be some remorse. However, it’s good to see players go on and do well.
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That's true, Forlan is another example even though he ended up being a high profile player, selling him was good for everyone involved.
 
JPRouve said:
That's kind of beside the point for two reasons, first the point was about SAF improving things immediately which he did unlike what many are claiming, he took over a team that was deep into a relegation battle. The second point is that while it's true that the current team is maybe the worst that we have in the PL era it's not actually a point to make because the expectation isn't to win the league with relative ease and go far in the CL, the expectation is to be a respectable EL spot contender or at least midtable team.

As for your last point would you say the same thing about ETH at the start of October 2024?
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How is it besides the point?

Context is always key, yes the team was in the relegation positions but clearly a refresh and change of tactics, was required as Ron Atkinson was underperforming with that team, he even offered his resignation in the summer before.

Was ETH underperforming massively with this team?

No his recruitment is why this team is exactly where we are and his tactics clearly showed no signs of improving this season.

The new manager bounce is due to a team underperforming under the previous manager, are these players going to suddenly score 2 goals a game for 4 or 5 games on the bounce, erm no.

We have gone from 14th under ETH to 15th under Amorim, maybe it isn't just a manager that improves the team, maybe a PL coach shouldn't have to coach players to pass the ball to each other not the opposition or his GK to stop assisting the opposition.

To your last point, I literally stated Amorim needs a pre season as he had not had one, ETH had 2 and signed majority of this squad so don't understand what your trying to get at here.
 
MCDC said:
How is it besides the point?

Context is always key, yes the team was in the relegation positions but clearly a refresh and change of tactics, was required as Ron Atkinson was underperforming with that team, he even offered his resignation in the summer before.

Was ETH underperforming massively with this team?

No his recruitment is why this team is exactly where we are and his tactics clearly showed no signs of improving this season.

The new manager bounce is due to a team underperforming under the previous manager, are these players going to suddenly score 2 goals a game for 4 or 5 games on the bounce, erm no.

We have gone from 14th under ETH to 15th under Amorim, maybe it isn't just a manager that improves the team, maybe a PL coach shouldn't have to coach players to pass the ball to each other not the opposition or his GK to stop assisting the opposition.

To your last point, I literally stated Amorim needs a pre season as he had not had one, ETH had 2 and signed majority of this squad so don't understand what your trying to get at here.
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It's beside the point because the claim was that SAF struggled initially, which isn't true.
 
Garethw said:
We looked bad last year due to the suicidal one man midfield ETH played! Funny how we looked a million times better when Ruud tightened the midfield up.
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Right, you know we looked the same under Ole with 2 DM's as well?

Ruud played a few games and his hardest game was Leicester... I can point to odd games under various managers where we were tighter.
 
Feck he needs to cheer up a bit , I’m all for honesty and keeping it real but there comes a time when you just have to start to try and sound a bit positive.
 
hobbers said:
The culture stinks and no doubt it sucks being a United player in the a team thats performing to relegation standard, but let's not forget Antony spent the last 18 months or so dealing with his own shit that was to some degree his own fault.
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Agreed.

Anthony was never worth what was spent on him but he’s not as bad as what United got from him either. We can probably say that about most United players as I’d say few, if any , can actually thrive in the club environment.

I did a stadium tour of Man City (with my sons team) and even their dressing room is built a certain way to help with team talks. I can’t imagine that level of detail at United.

But then imagine you are a top professional, used to certain standards and a certain professional culture. You join United and shortly after you see the kind of dysfunction and probably alot of disillusionment from players. And on top of that you probably have media scrutiny that you have never experienced and an expectation that your team should be in the top 6, “cause money spent” or “this is Manchester United” bollox.

I’d say playing for United is now worse than playing for England national team (when it had quality players) at the peak toxic periods when they’d absolutely gut you.

So I have some sympathy for this bunch of players , a lot of whom are quite young. I’m convinced we do have the bones of a squad good enough for top 5 (a quality striker transforms us) but that there’s too much happening. New coach; new tactics, new owner (causing all sorts of chaos) and players simply can’t settle.
 
Gavinb33 said:
Yet our players can't or won't do it and he keeps playing the same way, which means it is that simple to play against
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You do realise we were just as simple to play against under Ten Hag with no wing backs... so its not just the system / formation.

This idea that there is one simple way of playing against us because you dont like the formation is laughable because in reality we have been easy to play against for 3/4 years now.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
We shouldn’t be despondent that players go elsewhere and do well.

£25m is not a small fee for Italian clubs these days - and he’s gone from a squad player to one that’s a first team regular.

If we were letting the likes of De Byrne or Salah go then there would be some remorse. However, it’s good to see players go on and do well.
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Yeah pretty much this.

Funny enough, McTominay would actually be useful in this system we play now (and it's why he's excelling for Conte) because we don't ask our CM's to really be all that expansive. Bruno does it when he plays there but mostly Amorim likes guys who can carry it through the middle which is one of Scott's strengths along with his box instincts/striking.
 
JPRouve said:
That's kind of beside the point for two reasons, first the point was about SAF improving things immediately which he did unlike what many are claiming, he took over a team that was deep into a relegation battle. The second point is that while it's true that the current team is maybe the worst that we have in the PL era it's not actually a point to make because the expectation isn't to win the league with relative ease and go far in the CL, the expectation is to be a respectable EL spot contender or at least midtable team.

As for your last point would you say the same thing about ETH at the start of October 2024?
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the bottom 5 when Fergie took over was

Villa
Chelsea
Utd
City
Newcastle

That's absolutely mad.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Its been reported again today that tge players have no confidence in him and when your players have no confidence in you its game over, I think its likely he'll be gone if we lose to Everton to make it an embarassing 9 defeats from 15 games
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You can think that, but it aint gonna happen. You can get 18/1 with Sky bet on him being the next manager to leave, you should lump on.
 
pocco said:
Where is the irony? Perhaps they wanted the style of football Amorim plays?
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Oh come on. You surely don't believe that. Then why didn't they hire him in the summer and sack EtH?

They extended EtH contract and then proceeded to hire his replacement that will only play one formation one way, which is totally different to EtH.

These lot a fecking clowns.
 
Honestly, feck Antony and feck his statement.

If the very fact that you are playing for Manchester United is not enough to make you smile, you shouldn't be here.

I'm so sick of excuses for players. Can't stand them anymore. fecking divas make 1000 times more money than med personnel, fire fighters, people who actually contribute to society. And they have to kick a ball for that. And somehow when things go south they ALWAYS play the victim.

Hopefully Amorim is a good judge of character when it comes to incoming transfers.
 
Toshey said:
Honestly, feck Antony and feck his statement.

If the very fact that you are playing for Manchester United is not enough to make you smile, you shouldn't be here.

I'm so sick of excuses for players. Can't stand them anymore. fecking divas make 1000 times more money than med personnel, fire fighters, people who actually contribute to society. And they have to kick a ball for that. And somehow when things go south they ALWAYS play the victim.

Hopefully Amorim is a good judge of character when it comes to incoming transfers.
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Hopefully incoming transfers are handled by recruitment people
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't think that's even an issue. Short of relegation, and maybe not even then, he's here for the foreseeable future.
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INEOS won't blindly keep on a manager who's losing games nearly every week. The terms ''turbulence'' and ''suffering'' get thrown around a lot as if this current run of form in the Premier League is exactly what Amorim and INEOS were expecting when he was hired.
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
Feck he needs to cheer up a bit , I’m all for honesty and keeping it real but there comes a time when you just have to start to try and sound a bit positive.
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If he came out and tried to be positive, people would be calling him out for lying, because there really isnt much to be positive about right now.
 
Forwards are happy when they are playing and scoring. No surprise Antony is happy when his performances are good enough for mid table La Liga teams. EPL is harder. That's not up for debate. Not everyone can cut it. I'm not sure it says anything about United, but more about how hard the EPL is.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Because if we lose tomorrow his position is untenable, he will lost 9 out of his last 15 Premier League games which is a sackable offence on its own
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Not in the context of when he started and what he has to work with.

Who is coming in to replace him?
 
Toshey said:
Honestly, feck Antony and feck his statement.

If the very fact that you are playing for Manchester United is not enough to make you smile, you shouldn't be here.

I'm so sick of excuses for players. Can't stand them anymore. fecking divas make 1000 times more money than med personnel, fire fighters, people who actually contribute to society. And they have to kick a ball for that. And somehow when things go south they ALWAYS play the victim.

Hopefully Amorim is a good judge of character when it comes to incoming transfers.
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Stop watching pro football if it is so societally insignificant, players make so much money because the game makes so much money. The idiotic broken fallacy that all pro footballers do is kick a ball about a bit is blindingly stupid.
 
Amir said:
I don't think it was Arsenal, because Cantona was suspended that day and we played with Cole and Solskjaer upfront. But we did play 433 against Porto and Dortmund and it worked very well (even though we missed all those chances against Dortmund).

I think the attitude towards Fergie's tactics is mostly due to him not being a tactical innovator. Which is probably true, but who cares.
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To be fair I never said Eric played in the game. As I remember it it was 433. Giggs, Keane and Beckham in midfield. Solskjaer and Poborsky on the wings and Cole up front.

I may be wrong, but yeah we used 433 a lot that season.
 
USREDEVIL said:
The league means feck all at this point, everyone know that. He's not going anywhere. Come to your senses.
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This is a ridiculous comment in honesty, the higher up the league you finish the more prize money you recieve at the end of the season and a club like ours thats skint and £1bn in debt needs all the money it can get.
 
Toshey said:
Honestly, feck Antony and feck his statement.

If the very fact that you are playing for Manchester United is not enough to make you smile, you shouldn't be here.

I'm so sick of excuses for players. Can't stand them anymore. fecking divas make 1000 times more money than med personnel, fire fighters, people who actually contribute to society. And they have to kick a ball for that. And somehow when things go south they ALWAYS play the victim.

Hopefully Amorim is a good judge of character when it comes to incoming transfers.
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This
 
red_de_pologne said:
Didn't read the whole thread obviously but I think people are underestimating the effect the whole situation around the club has on the team.

"People are losing their jobs. Of course, that feeling of saving their job is hard to have that feeling and that affects the environment, so I think we cannot ignore it. We acknowledge that problem and I want to say that the responsible (people) is the first team. We have to change that. To change that the first part what we should do is to win against Tottenham. That is the small step to try to help these people, to try not to push the prices of the tickets higher. We are responsible for that."

Crazy quotes, team is burdened with the all round shitshow at the club, the pressure must be off the charts for a mostly young team.

"I think it’s really important for us in the first team, coaches and players, not to ignore that. People are losing their jobs, so we have to acknowledge that."
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This point needs to be better appreciated. There's a lot of anxiety within and around the club and the players are showing that anxiety, at least I believe, by making schoolboy mistakes. They feel the pressure, the anxiety builds, and they're making mistakes players at this level should not be making. Tactics have nothing to do with Onana's mistake of parrying the ball right to the feet of Maddison and Garnacho rocketing the ball 10 yards over the crossbar despite having an open look on goal well inside the 18 yard box.
 
D. Grayson said:
Stop watching pro football if it is so societally insignificant, players make so much money because the game makes so much money. The idiotic broken fallacy that all pro footballers do is kick a ball about a bit is blindingly stupid.
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It's actually silly to criticize someone for not enjoying the fact that what maybe their passion isn't going well for them. Some seem to believe that athletes are emotionless machines or that they should be.
 
Lets sack him, get another manager and sack that piece of shit at the end of the season. Clearly managers and players are at fault here. Hoijlund and Zirkzee will be scoring goals every week if it werent for the stupid systen and incompetent managers.
 
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