Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

But we’re saying it’s failed without Amorim yet having a spending window.
Which goes back to my initial point of such systems managers needing 500 million of investment and 30 new players for anything to work.

We invested as ETH wanted, didn't see any return in that investment in his 3rd year. Then people start blaming the board for backing the manager. It's just going in circles.
 
If you watched all the games last season you would know we were lucky to finish that high.

We we literally stealing points on a lot of occasions.
Hmm we also lost points by bad reffing and missed big chances. Over a whole season it levels out.

Finishing 8th despite all the injuries is now looking pretty good, ain‘t it?
 
Which goes back to my initial point of such systems managers needing 500 million of investment and 30 new players for anything to work.

We invested as ETH wanted, didn't see any return in that investment in his 3rd year. Then people start blaming the board for backing the manager. It's just going in circles.

The truth is as usual somewhere in between. One thing is certain, in top level football, you can't just hire a manager and expect him to introduce a new system without any backing, in a season with morale and general team level at an all time low, and add external factors around the club, constant message about debt, sacking people, players being burdened with the pressure of hitting targets otherwise more people will be sacked.. It was an obvious fiasco from the get go.

The obvious solution was to hire a manager to steady the ship, not one to rock the boat when there are no options to sell or buy players.

Glazers/Ineos announced a revolution, but are not capable to make changes to the playing staff.
 
Untenable :lol:

The guy has been here since November, with a squad we all said was crap when ETH was sacked, 1 LWB signing, and a team who cannot pass and win duels.

Great idea lets spend another 12m+ on sacking a manager when our accounts show this to be unfeasible, he definitely needs criticising and should be doing better, but to replace him would be another knee jerk nonsense decision.

We are building for the future, are we going about it the right way under INEOS who knows....

The accounts tell the story of being fecked financially and you constantly complain about the money wasted on Ashworth as he was some saviour we have cast into the fire and the extension of ETH, so lets add another small fortune to that mix.

Xavi plays technical high paced football, our lot will suit that, more nonsense they can't even pass and move at a snails pace, he won the Spanish league with one of the big two not exactly Klopp is it, if they wanted him they would have gone for him as he wouldn't have cost any pay out.

More Reactionary Nonsense From Yourself

You can criticise but constantly hyping up scenarios that are not going to happen unless we are relegated, but you are asking Ipswich and Wolves to drastically improve their points per game with less games, than they have so far for us to even be in a scrap.
What Xavi did at Barcelona is no easy feat, Barca with a lot of young players and only Lewa as a star player.
Also, he did not play high paced football, have you ever watched them play? Most of their games were 1-0 wins, bland, with a lot of possession and little risks taken.

About Amorim, there is no way avoiding to spend 12m is a goal, either Amorim can bring success or feck 12m, that's peanuts, not a small fortune.
 
What Xavi did at Barcelona is no easy feat, Barca with a lot of young players and only Lewa as a star player.
Also, he did not play high paced football, have you ever watched them play? Most of their games were 1-0 wins, bland, with a lot of possession and little risks taken.

About Amorim, there is no way avoiding to spend 12m is a goal, either Amorim can bring success or feck 12m, that's peanuts, not a small fortune.
I have watched the occasional game, must have got his teams confused, but in order for us to be a possession team we would still require upheaval that majority of this squad cannot do.

You mention the 1-0 wins with Lewa who is even a step below him in this squad?

12m for a team in a BILLION of debt is a huge amount, that is half the fee we paid for Dorgu, if you genuinely think that isn't a small fortune for us atm, I think you need to look at our accounts from yesterday.

I would love to get back to buying the best player out there but lets be real that isn't happening for a long time.
 
Which goes back to my initial point of such systems managers needing 500 million of investment and 30 new players for anything to work.

We invested as ETH wanted, didn't see any return in that investment in his 3rd year. Then people start blaming the board for backing the manager. It's just going in circles.

Exactly. You've actually hit the nail on the head... if Ten Hag wasn't backed, people would say he wasn't backed, how can he do well... he was backed and now its he wasted all the money etc...

Surely, we need to learn from mistakes rather than keep making the same ones.

So, unfortunately for Amorim, I don't think he should be backed to the tune of 150-200m in the summer unless he shows evidence that he should be backed.

At the moment, there is no evidence if he is given 200m of players, he will improve this team, everyone talks about his players.

He has to earn it for me.
 
Reports that Mainoo will only be available after the international break. Losing our two #10's in the last week is terrible luck. We can't catch a freaking break.

Ugarte, Casemiro, Eriksen, Fernandez, Garnacho and Zirkzee the only ones available to pick from for the four central midfield and #10 spots in the next seven games in 23 days.
 
The truth is as usual somewhere in between. One thing is certain, in top level football, you can't just hire a manager and expect him to introduce a new system without any backing, in a season with morale and general team level at an all time low, and add external factors around the club, constant message about debt, sacking people, players being burdened with the pressure of hitting targets otherwise more people will be sacked.. It was an obvious fiasco from the get go.

The obvious solution was to hire a manager to steady the ship, not one to rock the boat when there are no options to sell or buy players.

Glazers/Ineos announced a revolution, but are not capable to make changes to the playing staff.

Arne Slot says Hi... he must he hired at lower level football to be top of everything, in a final without any backing.
 
Untenable :lol:

The guy has been here since November, with a squad we all said was crap when ETH was sacked, 1 LWB signing, and a team who cannot pass and win duels.

Great idea lets spend another 12m+ on sacking a manager when our accounts show this to be unfeasible, he definitely needs criticising and should be doing better, but to replace him would be another knee jerk nonsense decision.

We are building for the future, are we going about it the right way under INEOS who knows....

The accounts tell the story of being fecked financially and you constantly complain about the money wasted on Ashworth as he was some saviour we have cast into the fire and the extension of ETH, so lets add another small fortune to that mix.

Xavi plays technical high paced football, our lot will suit that, more nonsense they can't even pass and move at a snails pace, he won the Spanish league with one of the big two not exactly Klopp is it, if they wanted him they would have gone for him as he wouldn't have cost any pay out.

More Reactionary Nonsense From Yourself

You can criticise but constantly hyping up scenarios that are not going to happen unless we are relegated, but you are asking Ipswich and Wolves to drastically improve their points per game with less games, than they have so far for us to even be in a scrap.
If Everton and Ipswich beat us we are in big trouble or do you disagree especially if Ipswich pick up 6 points from next two games and we pick up zero, I repeat if he creates a situation where a club like Man United lose 10 PL matches from 16 matches played with only 4 won and we are only 6 points ahead of Wolves and Ipswich with 11 matches to play, he will be sacked, this is not something I want, But SJR will pull the trigger without any exceptions, if you think he will not, your naive at best, delusional at worst!
 
Arne Slot says Hi... he must he hired at lower level football to be top of everything, in a final without any backing.

Arne Slot plays the same fecking system as Klopp.
And Salah is carrying them this season.
 
Amorim would win the title in England with at least 3 teams. It’s us that is the problem. But yeah try another 27 Managers instead if fixing the team.
 
Reports that Mainoo will only be available after the international break. Losing our two #10's in the last week is terrible luck. We can't catch a freaking break.

Ugarte, Casemiro, Eriksen, Fernandez, Garnacho and Zirkzee the only ones available to pick from for the four central midfield and #10 spots in the next seven games in 23 days.
Exactly so play 4312, he’s right about Maguire he can’t play in a 2 CB system too slow so play that way but both Ancelotti and Xabi Alonso have been playing a solid variation of 4312/442 and it’s so unknown it gives you advantages plus matches up with 3 man in midfield.

Onana, Mazraoui, Yoro, MDL, Dorgu
, Ugarte, Casemiro, Bruno, Zirkzee, Garnaucho(Wide Left), Hojlund (Narrow Right inside Striker)

Bench of ; E Harrison, V Lindelof, D Dalot, H Maguire, C Eriksen, J Moorehouse, B Mantato or V Musa, Chido and Biancheri.

Eriksen can come on for Casemiro after 55/60 mins
Jack Morehouse for Zirkzee after 70/75 mins
Dalot for Mazroui after 60/65 mins(both their mins need managing?)
Chido and Biancheri for Garnaucho and Hojlund
I genuinely think Ruben needs to roll the dice this weekend and try and get a result, he needs youth and pace being injected into the matchday squad.

We really don’t have too much to lose right now .
 
Which goes back to my initial point of such systems managers needing 500 million of investment and 30 new players for anything to work.

We invested as ETH wanted, didn't see any return in that investment in his 3rd year. Then people start blaming the board for backing the manager. It's just going in circles.
People was saying we planned for Amorim to be the next manager hence the signings of Yoro and De ligt. Why would you sign 2 Cbs if you wasn’t planning on going for a manager who plays a back 3. Since we still had Martinez, Maguire and Lindelof.
 
People was saying we planned for Amorim to be the next manager hence the signings of Yoro and De ligt. Why would you sign 2 Cbs if you wasn’t planning on going for a manager who plays a back 3. Since we still had Martinez, Maguire and Lindelof.

We had 6 centrebacks on the books years ago when we had managers who stuck with a back 2. I doubt that has to do with anything.

This club just loves signing shit centrebacks.
 
Amorim would win the title in England with at least 3 teams. It’s us that is the problem. But yeah try another 27 Managers instead if fixing the team.

But all our problems get solved if he is flexible and plays a back four. That’s the word on the street anyway.
 
I just worry the 343 will be the death of him.

I don’t think it suits our squad remotely and I don't think we'll make enough signings to fix it in the summer.
 
Which goes back to my initial point of such systems managers needing 500 million of investment and 30 new players for anything to work.

We invested as ETH wanted, didn't see any return in that investment in his 3rd year. Then people start blaming the board for backing the manager. It's just going in circles.

That part isn't true, system managers tend to be good at educating players to their own system, that's why these system managers are often not in top clubs. If a system manager needs large investments and complete overhaul of the squad then it's a sign that you do not have a system manager but a poor coach.

In fact in general good managers make things work with what they have which shouldn't be confused with them not also improving squads through transfers. In fact I don't think that I have a single example of top managers who didn't improve things until they had 30 new players.
 
I just worry the 343 will be the death of him.

I don’t think it suits our squad remotely and I don't think we'll make enough signings to fix it in the summer.

All we really need to kick start the team into life is a genuine goal scorer. It won't make us immediately into a Top 4 team but it will make teams play a little more defensive against us.

In reality we probably need an offensive RWB, a midfielder and 2 goal scoring forwards. But we'd need all that irrespective of our system (with the exception of RWB
 
Yup new players, more and more new players. That always seems to be the answer to everything.
Of course you need new players if most of existing ones are shite. But you need to identify the right players with the right mentality at a right age and pay them appropriately not excessively. Profile like Dorgu seems right way forward for the current state of the team. But it will take a year or two to churn out overpaid shite we have currently on our books (Rashford, Sancho, Casemiro, Mount, Shaw etc.) All in all where we are currently I would much rather see all burnt down to the ground and start fresh. Amorim's stance, mentality, no nonsense direct attitude is the right way to get accountability and high performance from players. At least from those that have balls and mentality to produce high performances in most of circumstances. It starts with the right mentality. Never say die attitude, tenacity, skill, atleticism etc. qualities we are sorely lacking. Burn it all down. We will not get relegated. And start with a fresh young exciting team. If we get relegated in a season or two american leches will leave and sugar daddy owner will buy the club and throw the money at it. United brand is to big to fail.
 
That part isn't true, system managers tend to be good at educating players to their own system, that's why these system managers are often not in top clubs. If a system manager needs large investments and complete overhaul of the squad then it's a sign that you do not have a system manager but a poor coach.

In fact in general good managers make things work with what they have which shouldn't be confused with them not also improving squads through transfers. In fact I don't think that I have a single example of top managers who didn't improve things until they had 30 new players.

Maybe 30 is exaggerating, I actually find that Pep requires a lot of players to get his system to work. He had City started on transfers long before he joined them.

Feels like City always buy one or two more players per year than most other clubs.
 
Of course you need new players if most of existing ones are shite. But you need to identify the right players with the right mentality at a right age and pay them appropriately not excessively. Profile like Dorgu seems right way forward for the current state of the team. But it will take a year or two to churn out overpaid shite we have currently on our books (Rashford, Sancho, Casemiro, Mount, Shaw etc.) All in all where we are currently I would much rather see all burnt down to the ground and start fresh. Amorim's stance, mentality, no nonsense direct attitude is the right way to get accountability and high performance from players. At least from those that have balls and mentality to produce high performances in most of circumstances. It starts with the right mentality. Never say die attitude, tenacity, skill, atleticism etc. qualities we are sorely lacking. Burn it all down. We will not get relegated. And start with a fresh young exciting team. If we get relegated in a season or two american leches will leave and sugar daddy owner will buy the club and throw the money at it. United brand is to big to fail.

The way this club is right now, new players are only good for about 6 months before they become shite so it's not a sustainable strategy.

Dorgu? Could very well end up in the Hojlund category if the coaching isn't right. And the jury is definitely still out on the quality/appropriateness of the current coaching.
 
Maybe 30 is exaggerating, I actually find that Pep requires a lot of players to get his system to work. He had City started on transfers long before he joined them.

Feels like City always buy one or two more players per year than most other clubs.

Not really. The team that he got when he joined was not built for him at all. We are talking about a team that as regular starters the likes of Clichy, Hart, Otamendi, Demichelis, Sagna, Jesus Navas, Ihenach, Aguero wasn't considered a good fit nor was Yaya Touré and a bunch of other players, Silva as an attacker was also not a good fit and he wasn't signed for Pep.

This idea is in my opinion a myth, what happened is that during his first season Pep tolerated some of the dross like Otamendi, Sagna, Demichelis, Hart, Touré or Clichy then he either adapted to players like Aguero and Sterling or changed the roles of players like Delph, Silva and De Bruyne. The only players that were good fit from day one were Fernandinho and Kompany.
 
can't be serious? same system, team on very high level, ballon d'or level player included, no external turmoil

Its not the same system, its different... just because he plays 4 at the back. Klopp was a heavy metal Vs Slots more slow build up.

Just go have a look, which team has run the least this season... Liverpool.
 
Arne Slot plays the same fecking system as Klopp.
And Salah is carrying them this season.

No he doesn't... just ask any Liverpool fan. Just because he plays a back 4 = same system?

So what if Salah is carrying them... the poster said no new manager without backing can do anything... Slot is about to win the league.
 
Not really. The team that he got when he joined was not built for him at all. We are talking about a team that as regular starters the likes of Clichy, Hart, Otamendi, Demichelis, Sagna, Jesus Navas, Ihenach, Aguero wasn't considered a good fit nor was Yaya Touré and a bunch of other players, Silva as an attacker was also not a good fit and he wasn't signed for Pep.

This idea is in my opinion a myth, what happened is that during his first season Pep tolerated some of the dross like Otamendi, Sagna, Demichelis, Hart, Touré or Clichy then he either adapted to players like Aguero and Sterling or changed the roles of players like Delph, Silva and De Bruyne. The only players that were good fit from day one were Fernandinho and Kompany.

I would consider most of the players you listed as a decent enough fit for Pep (except for Hart, Demichelis, Sterling and Iheanacho). But yeah, the fact they signed Sterling the year before Pep joined (he's definitely not a Pep player) suggests to me maybe they weren't preparing that far ahead.
 
Its not the same system, its different... just because he plays 4 at the back. Klopp was a heavy metal Vs Slots more slow build up.

Just go have a look, which team has run the least this season... Liverpool.
It still is a very similar system, just the approach changed a bit. Which is a smart way to evolve because they still have the same roles on the pitch and need minimal squad changes.
 
I really wish Ronaldo (my favourite) did not have to return to OT. Ole was on the cusp of something special with that team, I still rate Ole very highly. Finishing second twice in THE LEAGUE, reaching a UEL final, all by playing swashbuckling counter attacking football. The return of Ronaldo brought jealousy and polarised the team and Ole lost the plot. I wish him well at Besiktas. We have been unlucky with managers ever since. Sad.
100% agree. We should’ve kept Rangnick longer - to do the dirty job; overhaul the squad and build new structures around the team (read sport director).

It was wrong timing to bring in young inexperienced managers like ETH and Amorim.
 
It still is a very similar system, just the approach changed a bit. Which is a smart way to evolve because they still have the same roles on the pitch and need minimal squad changes.

No its not... Klopp played a very direct, high intensity system.. Just because they both play a variation of 4-3-3 does not mean its the same... Its like saying Pep and Ten Hag played the same way...

Look at the amount of running, amount of possession under Slot compared to Klopp.

Klopp used is full backs alot to create, Slot doesn't, he plays more a CAM which Klopp didnt use.

Its a much more controlled approach with playing out the back, Klopp was alot more frantic and direct.

Liverpool are more defensively solid now.
 
You laugh but most of the caf seemed to be giddy all summer, with those great signings. I'm biased because I didn't rate these players in the first place so my opinion is meaningless. 78% gave it a grade between 7 and 9 out of 10.
I can understand being a muppet in the moment but at this point in the season, still thinking we strengthened in the summer suggests you haven’t watched any football between now and then. Personally I had zero expectations of any of the players we signed and I’m still disappointed in how shit they are.
 
No its not... Klopp played a very direct, high intensity system.. Just because they both play a variation of 4-3-3 does not mean its the same...
That's what I said? Similar system, different approach.

Probably you include more when you say system, which I would discuss under another label, I don't think we actually disagree here.
 
I would consider most of the players you listed as a decent enough fit for Pep (except for Hart, Demichelis, Sterling and Iheanacho). But yeah, the fact they signed Sterling the year before Pep joined (he's definitely not a Pep player) suggests to me maybe they weren't preparing that far ahead.
Sterling still scored over 100 goals under Pep. He has not done this under any other manager. Pep got more out of him even though he is not a Pep player.
I would consider most of the players you listed as a decent enough fit for Pep (except for Hart, Demichelis, Sterling and Iheanacho). But yeah, the fact they signed Sterling the year before Pep joined (he's definitely not a Pep player) suggests to me maybe they weren't preparing that far ahead.
 
100% agree. We should’ve kept Rangnick longer - to do the dirty job; overhaul the squad and build new structures around the team (read sport director).

It was wrong timing to bring in young inexperienced managers like ETH and Amorim.
That was never going to be his remit though. He was brought on as a consultant, not a director with actual decision-making ability.
 
That was never going to be his remit though. He was brought on as a consultant, not a director with actual decision-making ability.
Even as such I would have had more trust in the previous leadership with Rangnick's support than in the current mess.