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Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I think you've really got to be looking hard to find this so called INEOS support in here? It's barely present, its certainly not loud.
It's interesting to imagine what the reaction would be if this was Southgate. I don't think there'd be a single supporter backing him.
Amorim escapes a lot of scrutiny because he's young, attractive and is a good speaker.
Amorim escapes a lot of scrutiny because he's young, attractive and is a good speaker.
He is not doing great, just that. If he had same record n Fulham or Palace he would get questioned. Am not sure why is that hard to maybe think it will not work. I like the guy, I think he has qualities and still trust in him but our problem wasn't sacking managers. We gave every single one of them too much time.
So you don't think any of it is to do with him dominating the league with Sporting after them not winning it for 20 odd years?
Also it’s funny how some people absolutely slate players when they arrive if they’re not performing after 20 games, but will say ‘back the manager’ if the manager is failing in his job in a similar way for much longer. Managers aren’t really that much more special than players these days, they should have to earn their respect with good performances, good decision making, a clear path to success - which hasn’t happened with Amorim.
Southgate would have been doing much better in terms of results.
Ultimately it was going to get us nowhere, probably.
Currently we expect Amorim to reshape the whole idea of the team, to something more promising and sustainable.
It was never going to happen in 3 months.
With a better finishing yesterday we win and this thread doesn't enter this ludicrous spiral.
He also actually did win stuff he wasn't expected to win. The opposite of Southgate in that regard.
Feels a bit of an overly complicated response to a hipster style. Top managers are adaptable, and he said he won't be with his formation. That means that even though he has some good players he won't put them in natural positions which sets him up for failure.
We lost on xG vs Spurs as well. It wasn't the worst performance we've seen recently, but it's not like we played a terrible Spurs side off the park
The fact that people are willing to write off whole seasons and give managers a 'free pass' for 1-2 years just shows how much failure has been normalized at this club.
15th is our rightful place and it will probably go lower if everyone keeps backing mismanagement.
15th is our rightful place and it will probably go lower if everyone keeps backing mismanagement.
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There's a lot of work going on to restructure how the entire footballing setup functions, it's naive to think that everything is going to function well from the get go and that the roles initially laid it will be as they were on paper. It's hardly problematic by itself and neither of us are privy to exactly what happened. People just want their balls caressed at all times.
You are preaching to the choir, but time and SAF has nothing to do with this, I keep mentioning it but SAF had an immediate effect at United, he took the team from relegation contention to midtable during his first season and from midtable to 2nd during his second season. SAF got time to reshape the entirety of the club from top to bottom because he immediately showed his abilities and impact on the club.
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Terrible decisions all round which have not helped the manager or our finances.
He was expecting it to be a shit show that’s why he asked to come in the summer
At least if we don't get to any cup finals nobody will be able to charge the club 5m to travel over.
Or they made a mess of the whole season.
I totally disagree. Chelsea was top 4 in europe for long years. They would win something. Barça would win something, not as much without the refs. Pep's City would win a lot, maybe not as much if the coach wasnt him.
That is a very wrong association. We are a crap team. That will win nothing. In the most rich and competitive league.
Yes, all clubs change coach, for sure. But Bayern or Dortmund will win something. Juve, Inter or Napoli will win something. Real, Barca or Atleti will win something.
In this league, Arsenal, Liverpool can go without winning for 20 years. Nottingham, Chelsea, Tottenham for 40 years.
You dont think we are on a run to an awful spell? Better think again. And stop the useless model that put us in this position for 10 years.
As much as it’s been a bit of a disaster so far, the club have caused this and should have got him a forward in January to help in the short term.
This current set we’ve got are too raw and inexperienced and it’s causing us big problems.
This current set we’ve got are too raw and inexperienced and it’s causing us big problems.
I really hoped he was going to be the one!
i dont see how he recovers from this, there cant be many managers who have recovered from so many defeats in such a short space of time. feck knows where we go from there, the situation is just dire and fills me with despair.
i dont see how he recovers from this, there cant be many managers who have recovered from so many defeats in such a short space of time. feck knows where we go from there, the situation is just dire and fills me with despair.
Good and often overlooked point. Sir Alex, initially, got time because he earned it for himself.
I still hope that Amorim can do the same. I just don't believe he will anymore.
He still chose to join
So Laurie wants another manager sacked. I'm sure that will fix everything
It is what it is.
All you can do as supporter is.. support. Hopefully better times are coming and ideas are coming to life.
I'm on the minority, but I'm certain that as long as Bruno is our best player and key man, we'll never escape mediocrity. He is the only one capable of creating something "special" or make things happen, but he is so inconsistent and chaotic that for me he actually represents everything going wrong with us.
Maybe it's time to turn to the academy, maybe it's not... But things will improve the minute someone starts scoring goals. And it's hardly Amorim's fault that we spend over 100 million quid on 2 strikers with seemingly 10 goals a season ceiling. (Hojlund overperformed last season I guess.)
For me, the league position is irrelevant at this moment, we should fire all guns at Europa league. If Amorim pulls that off, he 100% deserves a good summer window and a new season.
Again - he didn't want to come midseason, he warned us that it will get ugly. But he also promised it will get much better.
So we've seen the ugly, let's expect the much better part now.
The 1st title he won he was lucky, Sporting didn’t play that well, a lot of late goals. They fought well though.
Last year they hit the jackpot with gyokeres and hjulmand. He did good bringing young players and build a solid team and played really nice football.
With that said it’s still Sporting, it’s not like he won the league with Leicester.
Sure they didn’t win a title for a long time but Sporting is always a candidate to win the title.
Don't expect to see him as manager at the start of next season at the moment. Disaster of a club.
Because it was now or never and United is still a huge club. He said from day 1 he wanted to come in the summer and the early months will be painful he’s not delusional
We’ve hired a manager with a certain idea of how the game is played and we don’t have the players to do it. Is that on the manager? Should have kept Ruud until the summer and worked with Amorim on targets for the summer window, he could have come in with a full pre season and 3-4 players to suit his system but no
The lack of adaptability is on the manager, the decision to appoint him regardless is on the board. The blame isn't mutually exclusive
If that is the new structure, than moving a failing coach on at the end of a season should be almost an irrelevance. If that is the new structure they should already have a succession plan and a shortlist of coaches to take over if they do move Amorin on.
But ultimately if they have a plan/philosophy than surely the plan/philosophy is to build a squad to play 3-5-2/3-4-2-1. So we have to sign wingbacks and sell the wingers basically. Presumably if they move Amorin on than they would have to bring in another 3-5-2/3-4-2-1 manager.
Maybe that is the plan I will be honest when I say playing 3-5-2/3-4-2-1 really does not fill me with any joy and most managers who play that way are substance over style, structure over risk, rigidity over fluidity. And we can see that on the pitch right now.
If you take away the wingbacks, you need to change the roles of the forward players as well because you still need width. As I said, I do see your point and I would even agree to it, if we hadn't experienced more than enough games where the players showed that different roles also didn't work for them. Thats the thing, I agree with the notion of asking Amorim to be a little less inflexible. But thats about the height of his defensive line. About his ideas of pressing and use of space. The formation is stuff is extremely overblown though.
That is true but that has been a thing since Mourinho. So it is nothing new. One of the biggest issues is, that our squad isn't phyiscally up to scratch to reliably control matches. And thats not just being weak, it isn't being fit and intense enough. Stuff like that will break ANY system.
I don't think, thats true though. There is a notion around here, that our players might not be great but all of them are at least good and when this isn't enough for Ruben to work something out, then we need worldclass to even have a chance. I don't see it like that. Most of our players aren't shit but overall, I don't think many of them are actually good because so many of them lack in certain departments that are key to their roles though. We have strikers who are showing inexperience and crumbling under pressure. We have wingers who seem to think that it is the job of others to create for them, who are not great dribblers and often lack in working for the team. We have no real midfielder - Eriksen and Bruno are lightweight AMs playing in CM with all negative consequences against the ball. Casemiro is too immobile at this point. Ugarte is good and probably the best one overall we have, but he is still in desperate need of a partner with passing capabilities that we simply not have. The only midfielder we have, that is able to deal with being pressured is Mainoo, a teenager that unfortunately also seems to lack mobility and passing range. Our fullbacks haven't contributed anything attackingwise since years. And we have a backline that is probably pretty decent but not great in terms of speed and prone to blunders - including the goal keepers. And even though we have players that have technical levels there that might be able to balance out deficiencies in some aspects, their technical level doesn't seem to be so far away to our competitors that any balancing will happen.
Add to that the whole team doesn't give away the impression to be overly football smart and that we aren't even trying to balance out such things with above average workrate or intensity. This combination will always fail - no matter the formation. Additions to the team that attempt to tackle those issues don't have to be formation specialists at all. Same goes for Amorim. It isn't as all he can do is instilling exotic 3-4-3 knowledge into our players that will be wasted once he is gone. A proper working moral, good organisation, players working together, stay focussed and use their brains will get us a long way.
This is not a plead FOR Amorim. I don't know whether he is the one who will finally change the fate of this club. But I am dead sure that we finally have to bury the hope that significant will be quick or without heavy bleeding. Getting fickle will only add more pressure and make the whole situation even worse than it is.
Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.
At the end of the day, i really don't understand why people are getting their nuts in such a squeeze. The club is changing the way it's being operated, just because there's no instant success it doesn't mean it's not going to work, and that it won't be something we'll benefit from in the years to come. Just as there's no guarantee it's going to work at all. When the company i work for underwent restructuring 10 or so years ago, a lot of it felt extremely poorly planned, and a lot of it was, things were changed along the way, some leaders were removed, and overall things are much better and the overall structure that they wanted in the first place is working very well.
People just need to put down the e-pitchforks and see how things progress.
Yawn.
Why appoint a manager that should adapt to a failed squad full of overpaid players? He should change his idea on how to play to accommodate this lot? not for me
It really begs the question of how a multi billion organization can fail to make sound decisions time and time again over a decade, time and time again. Our club is the equivalent of a person who continuously fails their driving test but keeps on trying for 10 years without learning. Totally hopeless.
Said it since he arrived, he's fecked.
Every coach has flaws. A good club and good environment protect the team from those flaws.
Our club exposes coaches.
We are going to be a midtable team for a long time.
Every coach has flaws. A good club and good environment protect the team from those flaws.
Our club exposes coaches.
We are going to be a midtable team for a long time.
Or we signed subpar coaches.
Because it's literally the managers job to get the best out of his squad. If you need 11 new players, you're not a manager but a glorified shopper
Partially yes. If he had no clue what to do with this current group of players, he should have been honest with himself (and our board)
Also, Amorim's rigid way of playing needs more than one summer transfer window to sort out. There is no chance he is getting 11 new players this summer if that's when he wanted to join.
I have checked all our wins under Amorim.
You can see even our fortunes with Amorim here changes drastically when we play with less than 5 defenders.
Take time and go through this and see if its true.
- 1. Against Everton. Amad was wingback.
- 2. Against Pizen. Pizen scores. Antony comes on for Malacia. We score 2 more goals.
- 3. Against City. Antony comes in for Mazraoui. We score 2 goals after 61 minute.
- 4. Against Soton. We started game with Amad as Wingback.
- 5. Against Rangers. We started game with Amad as wingback.
- 6. Against Fulham. The only game we played with 5 defenders and won all through.
- 7. Against FCSB. The Garnacho half time substitution on for Malacia. The legendary one.
- 8. Against Leicester. Half time substitution. Leicester was 1 nil up at half time. Dorgu off for Garnacho. We score 2 goals in second half.
You can see even our fortunes with Amorim here changes drastically when we play with less than 5 defenders.
Take time and go through this and see if its true.
Any manager who was pragmatic, panders to the players and papers over the cracks would probably do better in the short term. The manager moulding to the players has been the problem for years though, but when the squad is getting progressively worse and massively overpaid so it makes zero sense.
At some point we had to change and pursue the open heart surgery/ reset or whatever want to call it. I doubt Amorim survives it, he’s probably gone within 12 months, maybe the next guy won’t either.
It might take multiple managers, multiple Sporting Director or Heads of Recruitment etc. Most likely it’s not going to be fun being a Utd supporter for a good while.