Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Annihilate Now!]

I support Amorim 100% and think he should be given time. However, I still want to point out few things he could have done differently. Although I suspect many posters will disagree:

1. Kept one of Rashford or Anthony. I think we could still have got rid of both in the summer but he could have kept one of them onside especially as it would have been clear that we were not getting replacements in the winter. Personally, i think he should have tried to work with Rashford for the remainder of the season with the understanding with INEOS that they would get rid in the summer.

2. Keep Ruud. He could have kept Ruud for half a season and drawn on his experience and advice. He could have reduced his role and asked him not to stand at the dugout if he thought that was reducing his stature. Ruud's experience with the squad and the English game would have helped him. At the least, Ruud could have worked with our strikers and helped them.

3. Not crap so much on the squad - this one is controversial. But i don't think crapping on the squad has helped him. There is a time for the hair dryer and there is a time for giving confidence. Fergie did both.

I don't think that was his choice... i think if it was up to him he'd have kept Antony - he was using him a lot off the bench.

 

[rooney2009]

Why do we keep blaming only the players?
All this players leave and do well in other clubs, new good players come here and become rubbish.
I can’t name one player that has improved since they came here.
The overall management by the Glazers and Ineos is rubbish and that’s where are focus should lie.
We are the only big club in the history of football that have had 2 owners that have refused to put proper money into the club.
We needed a complete take over with a billionaire that could have cleared our debts, not Stingy SJR coming in sacking all the poor staff.
Ineos have no credibility of running consistent successful sports teams and the stupid Glazers should never have sold to them.
Now the moral is so low at the club with Staff, players and fans so I guess if we are lucky we will remain mid table mediocrity till the Glazers and Ineos decide to sell up.
If the Glazers/Ineos keep losing money hopefully they will sell up and we can find our own Todd Boehly to invest in us.
There are billionaire out there but we were so overpriced by the greedy Glazers.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

He has until the end of the season IMO, iv seen nothing so far to give me any reason to back him in the summer. But he has until the end of the season to prove me wrong.

If we are just as bad, what is the point? If he can't improve what we have than why do we think 3/4 new singings will make any great difference? He will still have to get a tune out of at least 80% of what he currently has, and he currently is getting no tune whatsoever out of it. There is no guarantee 3/4 new singings to fit this managers system/philosophy will make any difference anyway.

Pointless sacking him now, but come end of the season and there has been little to no improvement than there is a decision to make and lets hope if it comes to it, it's not the second summer in a row the board absolutely fluff it up.

I suppose another question would be, would any other manager post Fergie have survived winning four out of their first 14 league games? It's ultimately an absolute disaster but the club also being a mess off the pitch has bought him some leeway.

The wins in the cups have given him some positivity and should he be successful in at least one of those in May, I'd say he's done enough to warrant being given the summer.

It is pointless sacking him now because, who would you bring in? Should that even be a reason to keep him though?

Amorin will quit before we see success again.

We are a disaster.

Ineos and the glazers are not aligned at all. The playing squad is average and disjointed.

The stadium is a wreck, the behind the scenes is a complete new set up.

The morale around the place is rock bottom with the cut backs.

The pressure and scrutiny of this job will break anyone. Amorin will walk before things are turned around > there's so many obstacles preventing first team success. He'll tire of underperformance from his players and the lack of real support behind him.

There isn't a manager in the world that could lift these players. Worst collective bunch of player's we've ever had.

I keep making this point but I'm not sure these "long term project" type managers can work at United in our current state. Short term quick fixes and a conveyor belt of managers have won Chelsea two Champions Leagues since Mourinho was sacked in 2007. Who's to say that's the wrong philosophy?

Again, I have made this point before but the next manager post Ten Hag should have been somebody who could have steadied the ship for 18 months. Even if that meant letting some players get away with their shite performances in Ten Hag's final matches. Buy the club some time to get the structure correct off the pitch before committing to someone who ultimately needs that structure to succeed anyway.

In addition, if the funds aren't gonna be there to give Amorim the squad he needs then the whole thing has been fecking pointless anyway.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Why do we keep blaming only the players?
All this players leave and do well in other clubs, new good players come here and become rubbish.
I can’t name one player that has improved since they came here.
The overall management by the Glazers and Ineos is rubbish and that’s where are focus should lie.
We are the only big club in the history of football that have had 2 owners that have refused to put proper money into the club.
We needed a complete take over with a billionaire that could have cleared our debts, not Stingy SJR coming in sacking all the poor staff.
Ineos have no credibility of running consistent successful sports teams and the stupid Glazers should never have sold to them.
Now the moral is so low at the club with Staff, players and fans so I guess if we are lucky we will remain mid table mediocrity till the Glazers and Ineos decide to sell up.
If the Glazers/Ineos keep losing money hopefully they will sell up and we can find our own Todd Boehly to invest in us.
There are billionaire out there but we were so overpriced by the greedy Glazers.

Which players leave and consistently do well? I can't think of any.

Agree the root problem is the Glazers, they have destroyed this club over the last 20 years brick by brick, year by year.

 

[hellhunter]

Assuming this season plays out the way the last 20 matches have gone, we will be getting knocked out of the Cups at the next asking, and will finish in 15th or 16th place, with some dire, wretched football to be played.

Amo gets this season and the summer preseason and transfer window. I’m guessing we don’t wrap up the signing or two early, which means there won’t be a lot of time with the full team. Then the season starts. If results don’t drastically improve—and I’m talking at least looking like a professional club—then I’d give him 10 matches maybe?

He will have been in charge at that point for 50-odd games, which an entirely adequate sample size to judge if there’s any hope of Amoball working. If results stay shit, he’s out well before Xmas.

The problem with this line of thought is that you then have to bring in another manager or interim mid season after having paid money for Dorgu and those one or two signings, which may not work for the new guy.

Not repeating mistakes would (for me) mean cutting ties in the summer if we're not improving, bring in a new guy, sign those one or two players for him and give him a preseason.

 

[giggs-beckham]

He's made some players worse, like Garnacho, Dalot and Hojlund. Amad has improved I guess but he is such a talent that you'd imagine he only needed to be given a run in the team.

Hadn't even Amad been getting poorer recently?

 

[DannyCAFC]

I don't see this ending well to be honest. Somebody mentioned AvB a while ago in here I think and I'm getting those vibes - very bright, charismatic young manager with a modern approach but the job feels too big for him at this stage.

Fully understand coming in with your own ideas and the conviction to stick behind them but the picture he painted was short-term suffering with results but long-term learning and development; if that is the case shouldn't we be seeing some improvement from the team and individual players? The team aren't just losing matches, they don't appear to be growing greater in terms of their understanding on this system and noticeably confidence levels aren't being raised at all - the performances are as bad as they were at the beginning, they look similarly anxious and disjointed as a whole and I haven't seen a single player markedly improve under him. What's more he's often made some baffling tactical decisions in terms of player positions and substitutions.

He deserves time to try and turn things around and ultimately I don't think United have many other options, both because they can't afford to sack and replace yet another manager and because there is no obvious candidate out there you would be confident could right this ship at the moment, but I don't have great confidence in his ability to do so at this point. I hope I'm proven wrong because I'd like to see him succeed but this feels like it's only going one way, especially if United aren't in a position to recruit heavily in the summer.

 

[InspiRED]

This manager is carrying the blame for everything that has happened before he even joined United.

Its called accumulative disaster.

Have a bad routine for one day, one week, one month and you will see no difference, do it for a year, 5 years, 10 years and see what happens.

Its like health, eat good food or 5 cream cakes every day and you will not see any real difference in a month either way, do it for a year and well you know what the outcome will be.

I will always back this manager 100% because he has inherited a complete S***show of a situation and a bunch of players that have flattered to deceive for way too long now.

My worry is he will walk before we start to see improvements which will obviously take longer than he had hoped for.

Yes exactly. It is difficult to turn an oil tanker and it’s that simple sometimes.

 

[romufc]

It has nothing to do with respect. There are managers winning their respective leagues everywhere, it doesn't mean that they are all top managers. In fact most of them aren't top managers outside of the top 4 or 5 leagues in the world.

No one will suggest that Bosz, Galtier, Conceicao, Lage, Schmidt, Rui Vitoria and many others are top managers. Top managers are exceptional.

Im sorry but its also context... If you dont get it or want to understand it, no point debating it.

 

[Lentwood]

If you want actual replies, you’re going to need to get down off your high horse.

1. Dorgu was not transformative to this team, and Amorim’s plans look no closer to fruition. You can be shocked all you like.

2. kids were all that Amorim had. Those players have been dreaming of playing in a real game for the first team. We were losing already and our starters were gassed and showing zero indication they could find the net with a map and a compass. Let me tell you, I’ve probably been watching the youth team longer than you have. Lets have a top reds debate, those are fun!!

Some kids step up when given the chance. It’s not like if they didn’t set the game alight they’d be banished back to the U13s. You’re being ever so slightly precious, but you do you.

Spurs was a free hit for them to get some minutes and maybe inspire some positivity in the side and that might trickle down to the fanbase.

No, folks aren't on their "high horses", they're sick of people coming on here to whinge about everything.

I refer back to my first point. We have signed one player for the senior squad since Amorim took over...a 20yo from Lecce. Amorim has not said that new WBs would be transformative - that it was people on here / in the media have said. I think in all likelihood, Amorim will probably need 10+ players...and that's not because of his "system"...it's because we have been signing the wrong profile for a decade, and especially so in the last three seasons under EtH. Forget ability for a second...this squad is miles, miles off in two specific, fundamental areas - physicality and fitness. Until we gets real athletes into the squad and until we solve our relentless, on-going problems with availability, the rest is all moot.

On the point about the kids...Amorim has a responsibility to them, to do right by them. Whether they want to play or not is irrelevant. Whether you or any other poster wants them to play is irrelevant. There are players who started in the PL in their teens, but they are the exceptions, not the norms - and their clubs will have only done that knowing that they were physically ready. Do you ever watch the 'unders' games, out of interest? They're children. They'd be eaten alive. We gain nothing at all by throwing in players who clearly aren't physically ready for mens football. They were on the bench for an absolute "needs must" scenario....i.e. a game ending injury...not to throw on for 30-minutes.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I support Amorim 100% and think he should be given time. However, I still want to point out few things he could have done differently. Although I suspect many posters will disagree:

1. Kept one of Rashford or Anthony. I think we could still have got rid of both in the summer but he could have kept one of them onside especially as it would have been clear that we were not getting replacements in the winter. Personally, i think he should have tried to work with Rashford for the remainder of the season with the understanding with INEOS that they would get rid in the summer.

2. Keep Ruud. He could have kept Ruud for half a season and drawn on his experience and advice. He could have reduced his role and asked him not to stand at the dugout if he thought that was reducing his stature. Ruud's experience with the squad and the English game would have helped him. At the least, Ruud could have worked with our strikers and helped them.

3. Not crap so much on the squad - this one is controversial. But i don't think crapping on the squad has helped him. There is a time for the hair dryer and there is a time for giving confidence. Fergie did both

He should have kept Antony. He could play wing back and follow instructions. The other two points aren't a big deal for me. If he had kept Ruud the media would be instigating drama non stop with the results we've had especially when Ruud did ok as interim. This squad needs to hear the truth. He seems like the type of manager that gets on well with his players but has high demands which I think is a good combination. I'm more concerned with how he is setting up the midfield and our ability to create chances consistently.

 

[Garethw]

If there is no sizeable transfer budget for the summer then they may as well sack him now.

I really feel for Amorim. He needs massive financial backing and if that backing isn’t there it’s never going to work.

Shame on any of you posters championing Ineos. They are an utter disgrace.

 

[Red_toad]

Don't think Amad has improved, but he's been given more time under Amorim to shine. The other two may have improved slightly but still nowhere near what we need.

But generally if he's relying on players who he doesn't rate, then we're fecked, because there's no way we're buying him a new squad in the summer.

We don’t need a squad, 3 or 4 players would change the team no end. We don’t need to be challenging for the title, getting back into the champions league, would be the goal. We also have some exceptional youngsters who can work their way into the team.

 

[Desert Eagle]

No, folks aren't on their "high horses", they're sick of people coming on here to whinge about everything.

I refer back to my first point. We have signed one player for the senior squad since Amorim took over...a 20yo from Lecce. Amorim has not said that new WBs would be transformative - that it was people on here / in the media have said. I think in all likelihood, Amorim will probably need 10+ players...and that's not because of his "system"...it's because we have been signing the wrong profile for a decade, and especially so in the last three seasons under EtH. Forget ability for a second...this squad is miles, miles off in two specific, fundamental areas - physicality and fitness. Until we gets real athletes into the squad and until we solve our relentless, on-going problems with availability, the rest is all moot.

On the point about the kids...Amorim has a responsibility to them, to do right by them. Whether they want to play or not is irrelevant. Whether you or any other poster wants them to play is irrelevant. There are players who started in the PL in their teens, but they are the exceptions, not the norms - and their clubs will have only done that knowing that they were physically ready. Do you ever watch the 'unders' games, out of interest? They're children. They'd be eaten alive. We gain nothing at all by throwing in players who clearly aren't physically ready for mens football. They were on the bench for an absolute "needs must" scenario....i.e. a game ending injury...not to throw on for 30-minutes.

I agree with 90% of your post but just on that last point he could have and imo should have brought on Obi 5-10 minutes earlier and possibly Kone too. 5-10 minutes in what is kind of a free hit game in the pl would be great for their development.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

The closest example would be Arteta, the first half of his first season was bad and it was cut by the summer window. Now the thing about Arteta is that he was literally a rookie head coach which isn't the case for Amorim but it's the first time that Amorim take over a team without having the ability to prepare the team for months before his first official game. There is a serious possibility that a full preseason changes everything for him.

But Arteta changed from Saka a wingback to Saka in a 433.

This was vital for change in Arsenal fortunes.
Even our games, which Amorim did make a substitution and changed the course of our games, he did remove 1 defender and add another attacker.

I have checked all our wins under Amorim.

1. Against Everton. Amad was wingback.
2. Against Pizen. Pizen scores. Antony comes on for Malacia. We score 2 more goals.
3. Against City. Antony comes in for Mazraoui. We score 2 goals after 61 minute.
4. Against Soton. We started game with Amad as Wingback.
5. Against Rangers. We started game with Amad as wingback.
6. Against Fulham. The only game we played with 5 defenders and won all through.
7. Against FCSB. The Garnacho half time substitution on for Malacia. The legendary one.
8. Against Leicester. Half time substitution. Leicester was 1 nil up at half time. Dorgu off for Garnacho. We score 2 goals in second half.

You can see even our fortunes with Amorim here changes drastically when we play with less than 5 defenders. Take time and go through this and see if its true.

 

[Longshanks]

Jim is that you?

Also, the point isn't really to back Amorim but to back the club by signing the players that fit into the structure we're trying to build, and having a manager that fits that structure.

Not sure why anyone thinks that bringing in 3-4 players that actually fit into the structure isn't going to make a difference, and it's not like the manager hasn't been very clear about why he doesn't want to adapt.

We're overall shit and we have been for quite some time, there's no instant fix and it's going to be painful, just grow a pair and stop thinking the solution is to sack managers.

Brining 3/4 players into a structure to suit the clubs rebuild isn't a problem, bringing 3/4 players in to suit Amorins very rigid philosophy that has shown zero promise of actually working in the PL would be a problem though.

The manager very clearly doesn't want to adapt because he doesn't know any other way, he has no other ideas and seemingly no adaptability. He and the club are absolutely dreaming if they don't think he will have to adapt his philosophy that worked in Portuguese league to work in The PL.

Growing a pair is saying this isn't going to work in this league, we took a risk hiring a inexperienced rigid system manager and it hasn't worked, we move on.

 

[Rajma]

Honestly, I would be more willing to cut him some slack if he wouldn’t see Bruno as pivotal player in this team, from my point of view this is a defining factor for any manager who walks through the OT door and as it stands he’s failing miserably in that department. I can accept the pains of new system or whatever (given the state of our ill-suited squad) but it has to lead to something completely new and with Bruno no winning system is possible going forwards.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

The problem with this line of thought is that you then have to bring in another manager or interim mid season after having paid money for Dorgu and those one or two signings, which may not work for the new guy.

Not repeating mistakes would (for me) mean cutting ties in the summer if we're not improving, bring in a new guy, sign those one or two players for him and give him a preseason.

Yeah, well that’s the danger of signing wingbacks when no one but our guy is using them. It’s apparently a lot harder to get PL players to do the things players can do in their sleep at Sporting, and without a new squad it ain’t happening. He’s not getting a new squad. He’s Ned Stark taking the job of King’s Hand.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

No, folks aren't on their "high horses", they're sick of people coming on here to whinge about everything.

I refer back to my first point. We have signed one player for the senior squad since Amorim took over...a 20yo from Lecce. Amorim has not said that new WBs would be transformative - that it was people on here / in the media have said. I think in all likelihood, Amorim will probably need 10+ players...and that's not because of his "system"...it's because we have been signing the wrong profile for a decade, and especially so in the last three seasons under EtH. Forget ability for a second...this squad is miles, miles off in two specific, fundamental areas - physicality and fitness. Until we gets real athletes into the squad and until we solve our relentless, on-going problems with availability, the rest is all moot.

On the point about the kids...Amorim has a responsibility to them, to do right by them. Whether they want to play or not is irrelevant. Whether you or any other poster wants them to play is irrelevant. There are players who started in the PL in their teens, but they are the exceptions, not the norms - and their clubs will have only done that knowing that they were physically ready. Do you ever watch the 'unders' games, out of interest? They're children. They'd be eaten alive. We gain nothing at all by throwing in players who clearly aren't physically ready for mens football. They were on the bench for an absolute "needs must" scenario....i.e. a game ending injury...not to throw on for 30-minutes.

I disagree with everything you’ve written.

 

[Judas]

Honestly, I would be more willing to cut him some slack if he wouldn’t see Bruno as pivotal player in this team, from my point of view this is a defining factor for any manager who walks through the OT door and as it stands he’s failing miserably in that department. I can accept the pains of new system or whatever (given the state of our ill-suited squad) but it has to lead to something completely new and with Bruno no winning system is possible going forwards.

This is all well and good, but for as shit as we can be with Bruno and all his issues, dumping him out of the team right now with our attack as it is would be bonkers.

 

[#07]

Failure has been normalized

Four words that say everything.

We are at a point now where we expect to lose and where getting the Champions League participation trophy is seen as aspirational.

This would never be allowed to happen at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, the clubs we used to compare ourselves to.

Our fans, our board, seem happy to languish in midtable to give things a go.

 

[JPRouve]

Was Arteta ever at the level we're seeing though? Our points per game average is hovering around 1. I know Arteta started badly but I don't remember it being this bad and, as you point out, Arteta had an upturn that Amorim simply doesn't look like enjoying.

You are right that with a preaseason everything could change. However, the last two games came after no midweek fixtures and plenty of time on the training pitch. We did not look any better.

What's more likely? A huge improvement out of nowhere? Or that after a decent preaseason we collapse mentally at the first bad result next season, just as we did under Ten Hag this season, and we end up limping through the autumn?

From memory the early part of his first season was pretty bad. A quick look and in the league he had 35% win after 14 games.

And to be clear I have no faith in Amorim yet, things would have to improve for me to have any reason to actually believe that a preseason would change everything but it's also something that I believe can't be excluded because his system isn't natural for most players and he has never done what he is trying to do(coach a new team without a preseason) so I imagine that he is totally out of his depth at the minute but that the context will be different after the season.

 

[Toshey]

We could keep changing managers until we find someone who works out, just like any other football club does.

Every football club changes managers every 3 months?

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Honestly, I would be more willing to cut him some slack if he wouldn’t see Bruno as pivotal player in this team, from my point of view this is a defining factor for any manager who walks through the OT door and as it stands he’s failing miserably in that department. I can accept the pains of new system or whatever (given the state of our ill-suited squad) but it has to lead to something completely new and with Bruno no winning system is possible going forwards.

When Bruno is played in his best position (i.e., not in a midfield 2) he’s the only player we have who can spin straw into gold and make magic happen on his own. * So yes we should be moving on from the Bruno era but he’s still our best player.

*Amad vs Southampton being an outlier.

 

[Garethw]

We don’t need a squad, 3 or 4 players would change the team no end. We don’t need to be challenging for the title, getting back into the champions league, would be the goal. We also have some exceptional youngsters who can work their way into the team.

The trouble is that the midfielders required to play this system in the Premier League need to be elite level.

His Sporting team would struggle to finish in the top ten in the Premier League. The majority of PL teams play three in the middle so you’d probably need a prime Casemiro level player as one of the two to make it work.

We just don’t have the funds to make this system work.

 

[rooney2009]

Rubbish players that were ridiculed here and playing ok for other teams and starting.

Scott playing brilliantly for Napoli.
Elanga playing brilliantly for Forest.
Sancho doing ok for Chelsea.
Fred and Amrabat doing well in Turkey.
Anthony started well in Spain.
Rashford started well for Villa.
Anthony Martial scoring goals again.
De Gea is doing better than Onana.
AWB is probably player of the season for West Ham.
All I’m saying is that we can’t continue to hammer our players when we haven’t created a settled environment for them to play their football.
It takes a lot of hardwork and dedication to become a premiership player.

 

[NotChatGPT]

Brining 3/4 players into a structure to suit the clubs rebuild isn't a problem, bringing 3/4 players in to suit Amorins very rigid philosophy that has shown zero promise of actually working in the PL would be a problem though.

The manager very clearly doesn't want to adapt because he doesn't know any other way, he has no other ideas and seemingly no adaptability. He and the club are absolutely dreaming if they don't think he will have to adapt his philosophy that worked in Portuguese league to work in The PL.

Growing a pair is saying this isn't going to work in this league, we took a risk hiring a inexperienced rigid system manager and it hasn't worked, we move on.

Great, because that is the new concept.

He's been quite open about why he doesn't want to change his approach, not sure why you want to boil it down to not having any other ideas or being unable to adapt. He's also been more than open about the potential consequences of sticking to those ideas, which is perfectly fine.

 

[Marwood]

Do we?

Wingers/Attackers

West Ham have Kudus and Bowen - I don't think our wingers are any better then either.

Brentford have Mbuemo, Schade and Daamsgard... Mbuemo and Daamsgaard definitely would bother our starting Xi.

Wolves have Cunha and Sarabia... a lot of people are hoping we buy Cunha to improve our team.

Spurs have Son, Maddison, Kula... I mean thats a no brainer.


As for midfielders, I mean I don't even know what our first choice Centre Midfield pairing is... we only really have Urgate... so by default one other midfielder from any of those teams would probably get into our team.

CB's we probably do edge, but then I think most teams have better full-backs/wing-backs then we do.

And like I said, you'd definitely take the goalkeeper and centre forwards from other teams... As I said a few posts up, if you do a combined XI with us and those teams, it would probabyl be an even-ish split.

People are really struggling to accept this.

Outside of the CB's and Bruno this is either a low quality team or a team that's too young. Newport gave us a game. Coventry nearly beat us in an FA Cup semi final.

Can anyone name a Premier League striker that looks more awkward in front of goal than Zirkzee? In terms of how confident or likely a player looks when presented with a chance.

What is pretty diabolical is Amorims courage being questioned because he won't give young players a game.

This when he's regularly starting 18-21 year olds with barely any experience. We're not scoring goals because the guys tasked with doing so are too young and the situation has got to them. So the answer is let's put even younger players in that situation?

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

Why not sub them then? Not like you are subbing Cristiano and Van der Sar,

Cause the subs were all very young and we were pushing for an equaliser.

 

[NZT-One]

And as I said, Spurs had an injury crisis, with our squad being better on paper than every other team you've named. Our manager is just doing a bad job with them. I don't understand why we don't call a spade a spade - a lot of these players are not average in quality.

At what point do we finally stop attempting to evaluate players only by being good and bad. It got us nowhere and there isn't much indicating this will end. The football world moved on, they look for players "that fit a system". There is a reason why we get fleeced so often - we buy players that were "good" elsewhere without understanding why they were good and how this translates to ourselves.

And this is an acceptable haul considering our squad?

The squad is nothing much to talk about. Lets face it, the fans have bigged up players for a long time, calling guys like Rashford and Shaw world class. The existing squad might be better than place 15 but it doesn't have key capabilities and at some point, that starts to show. We are unable to generate high quality chances since even late into Fergies reign. Since then, other teams have adapted data driven approaches, what kind of situations should be targeted but United is still thinking it is 2005 and "we only need a real goal scorer". The team is unable to not get overun in midfield, due to being phyiscally not being up to scratch or not having good enough technique. We are also not working together as a unit, which makes every task even more hard.

All the tendencies were there since a long time. Whether Amorim is the man who changes the course I don't know but we have to keep in mind what kind of course we are on: mindlessly changing direction as soon as the going gets rough will definitely not help exiting the rough waters. It is fine to not be convinced by Amorim but the more erratic we become, the more clueless we appear. If we really think that we just have to roll the dice often enough to finally hit a combination of coach and team, we absolutely deserve to be where we are. Because other teams in the league simply do better jobs than us.

Failure has been normalized

Yeah, thank god we have a new face to transport this message even though it applies for years. The same fans who were celebrating transfers of Maguire, Ronaldo, Varane and Casemiro (and don't kid ourselves, there were A LOT of them) and talking about us being "one or two shrewed transfers away from..." are now jumping on the next bus.

Reading this thread, I think it is safe to say that many fans deserve to experience this with the club. How many used the chance to express their great fandom by stating that they are ready to go through rough times for the good of the club. And now we are back with "I didn't expect the times to be that rough"

 

[Jim Beam]

Every football club changes managers every 3 months?

If a manager averages 1 point per game, yeah there is a strong possibility he might get sacked. In any other top club.

 

[Zed 101]

Failure has been normalized

I don't think the issue of having academy players filling the bench can be levelled at Amorim, the Glazers have run the club and squad into the ground, INEOS are trying to reboot but there is no magic wand.

Not saying that there are not things Amorim could do to be more successful but so much is out of his control, and yesterday we could have easily come away with a draw or even a win

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

If there is no sizeable transfer budget for the summer then they may as well sack him now.

I really feel for Amorim. He needs massive financial backing and if that backing isn’t there it’s never going to work.

Shame on any of you posters championing Ineos. They are an utter disgrace.

Is anyone championing INEOS? I think at the time of sacking Ashworth, people realized they’re cack, if not before.

 

[NotChatGPT]

Is anyone championing INEOS? I think at the time of sacking Ashworth, people realized they’re cack, if not before.

Why would sacking Ashworth, by definition, be problematic?

 

[romufc]

Rubbish players that were ridiculed here and playing ok for other teams and starting.

Scott playing brilliantly for Napoli.
Elanga playing brilliantly for Forest.
Sancho doing ok for Chelsea.
Fred and Amrabat doing well in Turkey.
Anthony started well in Spain.
Rashford started well for Villa.
Anthony Martial scoring goals again.
De Gea is doing better than Onana.
AWB is probably player of the season for West Ham.
All I’m saying is that we can’t continue to hammer our players when we haven’t created a settled environment for them to play their football.
It takes a lot of hardwork and dedication to become a premiership player.

Rubbish post. Let me ask you.

How many 90 mins have you watched Napoli?
How many 90 mins have you watched for Forrest?
Chelsea fans are frustrated at Sancho already... I dont know what you talking about he is doing ok.
How many Turkish league games do you watch?
Martial is playing at his level.
DDG as a shot stopper was always brilliant
How many full West Ham games you watched? or just some clips?

You talk about an environment... where those players are playing should tell you why they didn't succeed at United... they were not good enough.

When fans continue to create this toxic environment.. we wont improve...

 

[Toshey]

If a manager averages 1 point per game, yeah there is a strong possibility he might get sacked. In any other top club.

What makes us a top club, considering our last 10 years?
At this moment, do we have the money, resources or the players of a top club?

 

[bazzas]

Hi all

Newbie Wolves fan come is peace but I did live in Higher Broughton for many years in the late 80s/early 90s so saw all the players at the Cliff, Fergie running around in a big gold Mercedes and a few amusing encounters with McGrath in the city centre. Went to lots of games including the ECWC semi against Legia Warsaw at OT

I have been watching the comments with interest and just wanted to say something from an outside perspective (and a supporter of a club below you in the league)

It is a really difficult situation with Amorin - he clearly has talent and is really committed to his 'project' which has served him well in the past and this was all known at the time of his recruitment. He is in a really tricky position now though and I am not sure how easy it will be for him to get out of it

He should not have been forced to come mid-season when the players are/would not be available for his system that he is known to be committed to. If the stories are true then Ashworth was perhaps right to caution but how any caretaker would have worked in that situation is hard to see (Rangnik showed that)

The future is difficult to read - there are some talented players at United but none, even as a Wolves fan, I am particularly coveting - to someone who saw the 90s team coming into its own that is quite something. There do not seem to be any funds available for Amorin to really target proven players of the type he would like so he is going to have to take a punt on some of the youngsters or buy in cheaper emerging talents - not something easy to do

In the end though football is a results game, especially for United and (moreso if Liverpool win the league) and he has to start winning at some point and that is where I worry most - are the club going to invest the money he needs in new specific players or will they wait until he has shown he can get the most out of the players he has, and will hav, for a while longer? Europe next year may be a 'must' for him

As has been mentioned many times this is not really the fault of Amorin or any indication of what type of manager he is. I just wonder if he was the right manager at this time for United and whether another approach could have helped to stabilise a difficult situation. His commitment to his project is clear but if it is not winning games then something has to give at some time. I do worry he perhaps is a little inflexible for the current time. The United fans I have known are usually very patient (I remember that the were always supportive of Fergie during his first few years) so that may help him.

The problems lie elsewhere obviously - the player culture at OT has been spoken about a lot as has been the upper levels which seem not to have improved much either. I am not a fan of Ineos for a number of reasons and don't see them as a good choice but that is my own (biased) view

We have had our share of bad owners - the Bhatti brothers who took us to the brink, and Fosun are hardly great but we were lucky to get Sir Jack as a benefactor who laid the groundwork that Nuno eventually prospered from. Ratcliffe should try to be more like Sir Jack than the Glazers!

Fingers crossed and will pop in to make some (hopefully constructive) observations

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Why would sacking Ashworth, by definition, be problematic?

Chasing him, paying him on garden leave, then ignoring his advice, then sacking him weeks later = it’s not a series of actions to inspire confidence.

 

[Garethw]

Is anyone championing INEOS? I think at the time of sacking Ashworth, people realized they’re cack, if not before.

There’s a good few in here that thinks the sun shines out of their backside mate.

 

[#07]

From memory the early part of his first season was pretty bad. A quick look and in the league he had 35% win after 14 games.

And to be clear I have no faith in Amorim yet, things would have to improve for me to have any reason to actually believe that a preseason would change everything but it's also something that I believe can't be excluded because his system isn't natural for most players and he has never done what he is trying to do(coach a new team without a preseason) so I imagine that he is totally out of his depth at the minute but that the context will be different after the season.

I think that's a fair way of looking at it and, you're right, we cannot exclude that things could change for the better.

Still, Amorim's win % is worse than Arteta's at the same stage. Plus, Arteta stands out because very few coaches follow the same path.

We fell into this trap before with giving managers 'time' because our experience was Sir Alex. However, Sir Alex was the rarity not the rule.

Pointing to the one or two times when something works out misses the 98 or 99 times when it doesn't. Right now I think its more likely Amorim is the rule rather than the exception.

I hope I am wrong. It does not make me happy seeing us slump from loss to loss. However, I see more reasons for this to continue going belly up than for it suddenly getting better: Inability to sell players at profit, inability to sign players, visible decline in confidence and results. It makes me feel that its more likely that we go into next season, have a couple of shaky results, then fall apart under the spotlight than go on an amazing run of wins.

For me, increasingly, it feels like Amorim was the right guy at the wrong time.

Knowing the club's financial position and the makeup of our squad, we should have gone for a coach better suited to the players we had on an 18 month contract and re-evaluated the situation properly at that point. We would not have won the title but we were not completely out of contention for top four in November. Look at us now...