Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[gaffs]

He plays with three CBs to be able to stay safe when the wing backs join the attack. In 3atb formations also one CB is expected to step into midfield situationally. Right now, it is a hot mess because players do not fully understand their roles and, more importantly in the case of the wingbacks, aren't really suited to it. And to control a midfield, you can't just look at the midfield players unfortunately. It isnt as simple as that. Whatever the plan was today, no doubt it didn't work but it isn't just the formation. Amorim went ballistic at times, I am sure, there was stuff going on that really wasn't in his instructions. And, lets be fair as well - his hands were pretty tied today given the injury list.

No, i get that he needs 3 CBs when playing with wing backs. My point was to remove one CB and not play wing backs, because they are not effective going forward nor back.

Agree - its a hot mess. The profiles just dont fit this system. But regardless of profiles and system, there are times when players cant pass from A to B. Its rudimental stuff.

I like Amorim a lot, but shit, if he needs so many new players. With the best will in the world, you could perhaps count on one had the number of players he would like to retain and use in his system.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Neville may as well just say he wants Amorim sacked at this point. Calling his tactics a disgrace.

He’s not wrong. Amorim had a barely functioning team that was learning his system, then the injuries meant he absolutely did not have the players for his system — and he made them play it anyway, then left them out there for 90 minutes without a sub while the game seemed to happen unobserved by him.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

While Amorim is rightly under pressure, I don't know why a loss away at Spurs would significantly increase that. They may be doing poorly, but they're still a top club that can beat anyone on their day, playing at home.

I think the manner of the surrender is what makes it stand out from the other recent capitulations to shitty teams. It was like Amorim forgot he could adjust things and bring on fresh legs during the game.

 

[croadyman]

I could be wrong obviously but I think hel get a major backing in the summer and we will be OK with spending.

Yeah that's if he gets to the summer, obviously I am fully backing him but also agree with the doubters that he needs to get results

 

[Yakuza_devils]

He is a brilliant communicator and listening to his press conferences makes you feel that everything is going to be alright. I have never seen a manager so clear and so honest in their communication. If he wants, he can be the president of Portugal tomorrow, that's how good he is.

None of it is translating on the pitch though. We look like a clueless bunch out there with no standout feature. There are no signs of improvement on either the defensive or the offensive side of the game.

Our PL record under him so far is:

P14 W4 L8 D2 GF16 GA23 GD(-)7

- We haven't scored in 6 of these 14 fixtures. In 43% of those games.
- Have won a whopping 28.5% of the games and lost 57% of them.
- Have scored 1.14 goals/game & conceded 1.6 goals/game
- Seven of the 14 fixtures have been at home and we have won only 2 of them - against Everton & Southampton.
- Lost the other 5 and didn't score in 3 of them.

No matter what the adversity that is simply not acceptable. We are much better than what we have been showing on the pitch. He gets till the end of the season from me to earn our trust beyond that. I won't spend a penny on the positions he desires to strengthen if we continue on our current trajectory. Lesser teams would have fired a manager who loses 8 of their first 14 league games. We, as a club and fans, are more patient than anyone else in the world of football. I really hope Ruben comes through for us and can steady this ship. Even if we are faltering in the league we need to do well in the both the cup competitions we are in and do whatever we can to win Europa. We cannot afford a season with reduced sponsorship deals and no European football money. In our state a major loss of revenue will make things much harder for us.

Good post. We also can't keep giving manager excuses like he came in middle of the season and he needs to bring in his own players. There are many managers out there not given the luxury of the above and yet expect them to improve the team.

No ifs and buts, so far he has shown he is a worse manager than ETH. He needs to improve drastically to earn the trust for him to spend 200-300M for rebuild next season.

 

[RedDevil@84]

If he is waiting on Ineos giving him lots of money in the summer, he better not be holding his breath on that.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Not good enough

You’ll have to be more specific.

Yeah cos everyone gave him shit whenever he played Collyer didn’t they

and Gore and Fletcher and Amass too. It’s quite the opposite of what that poster was saying. No one would have faulted Amorim for throwing in 3 kids, that’s what he had available. And the fans would have 100% behind them.

 

[Judas]

I back him still and don’t want him gone, but it has factually been disappointing overall. A few alright games away to the bigger boys aside. Even with all the circumstances given, I didn’t expect things to be this painfully bad.

We all knew this team had no goals in it, so that aspect isn’t a surprise. The fact so little has been done to rectify that, if anything just weaken it further has been hard to stomach.

 

[Hawks2008]

Starting to have my doubts. Even Moyes has turned things around at Everton with a weaker squad.

 

[RedDevil@84]

"I have a lot of problems," he told Sky Sports. "My job is so hard but I am here to continue my job to the next week with my beliefs and I will try to win again."

No shit Sherlock!!!

 

[Red For Ever]

Admittedly with the benefit of hindsight.
We are told he was advised come to United now or not at all
If ETH had remained in post until the summer, would we have been in a worse position than we are now.
United with all its cost cutting in recent months would not have had to pay Amorims release clause,
He would have joined in the summer, a chance to bring in players that suited him and have a pre season

It was clear for the second half of last season that it was not working out with ETH but the cup win, as great as that was, it just papered over the cracks, but it meant he got a new contract and a bigger payout than he would have done.
Brought in Ashworth after paying to get him released, let him go after a short time, presumably he was paid off as well, how much did his short stay cost overall.

Ineos sure haven’t got many big decisions right since arriving.
As bad as the Glazers have been, no evidence I can see that suggests Ineos are the answer.

I hope It works out for Amorim, beginning to have my doubts.
With a group of players clearly not up to it, and employers who are no better, he has his work cut out.

I have no idea how much it cost to assemble the squad he had at Sporting but I bet it was massively less than the squad assembled at United on his arrival.

 

[Xtal]

Good post. We also can't keep giving manager excuses like he came in middle of the season and he needs to bring in his own players. There are many managers out there not given the luxury of the above and yet expect them to improve the team.

No ifs and buts, so far he has shown he is a worse manager than ETH. He needs to improve drastically to earn the trust for him to spend 200-300M for rebuild next season.

This is the point. We cannot keep giving Amorim excuses, we can't just accept the "we have to suffer" cliche. I really welcomed Amorim, but after 3 games I had very serious doubts. His rigidity about "His style" at press conferences made matters worse. We should always remember Ten Hag won the league at Ajax, those smaller leagues are indeed way way below EPL standards. For starters, our next manager should be someone with EPL experience please, currently someone like Iraola or Frank. These managers won't rewrite the script, they know what works in the EPL. Glazers/INEOS might definitely have their problem, but they've hacked managers recently - Ten Hag spent a fortune. I repeat, we are a BIG CLUB, we should get managers with EPL experience going forward.

 

[Tallis]

"I have a lot of problems," he told Sky Sports. "My job is so hard but I am here to continue my job to the next week with my beliefs and I will try to win again."

No shit Sherlock!!!

I am not sure if he should be saying that to the media to look for sympathy.

 

[Regalia]

Man you really are on a roll today... I noticed your name on a lot of "special" posts but this one really is taking the cake...

But I guess, this is the time to howl at the moon. Maybe, just maybe we finally get rid of the owners and only then we will be able play good football. Like teams like Brentford or Nottingham Forrest.

Just sounds like limited understanding of football to me. With all due respect, we aren't struggling because we miss experts in a specific formation. We are struggling since years, the underlying numbers are bad since years. We have fullbacks who don't contribute anything of note to the attack we have no noteworthy midfield at all. We invested in young strikers who are currently crushed by the pressure which comes from a completely dysfunctional unit where players get outfought all over the pitch and look 2nd best in 90% of their duels. The notion that when we bring in players that are better ones than the current lot we will have no use for them once Amorim might lose his jobs is crazy.

Yeah in the grandtotal of what - 3 month? Truly shocking. It is so shocking that a bad team with mostly struggling individual players continue to struggle in a different system. A B S O L U T E L Y shocking.

Absolutely spot on. Glad to see there are a few of us still rational and able to see the big picture. So many clueless 'fans' here who couldn't tell you the first thing about tactics screaming bloody murder that Amorim isn't using their favourite 4-2-3-1 or that he just needs to 'ADAPT!' like only they can see the problem but not a coach that has actually played and coached high level football. This thread these days is mostly just sheep lapping up the negativity of the media helping push the 'Amorim Out' agenda, basically finding 100 different ways to tell you why the manager is bad, from the way he walks to the clothes he wears. When criticism of the manager becomes about his body language or how he looks, you know it's all just agenda pushing in bad faith.

Wake up, when ALL our managers in the past 12 years failed to get us seriously competing, things HAVE to change and it needs to start somewhere. This is the only time (Rangnick aside, since nobody listened to his hard truths) that we have had a manager with the balls to upend the rot and actually move the team in a different direction. Whether it works or not remains to be seen, but Amorim has shown the mettle and man management skills to actually be able to pull us through the inevitable turmoil and out into a hopefully better long term future.

Change is painful and transformation needs time. Just the same as making a big change in life. Maybe it won't pan out, but if you don't even have the stomach to try, you're never getting anywhere in life. Clearly these people whining non-stop change careers or get over a divorce in 3 weeks though, because they just need to adapt! We call out our spineless players living off the faded glories of our past, but a lot of our fans sure seem exactly the same.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I am not sure if he should be saying that to the media to look for sympathy.

The media will stick a knife in and twist it.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Correct. Many people who said they were willing to put up with "pain" have already crumbled. Most of them crumbled a month ago.

Many people are ok with the sound of this until it actually comes down to it

It’s not simply coming away empty handed, it’s the swervable errors he keeps making that contribute to those losses. Teething pain implied it would take some weeks to adapt this squad.

Today his new LWB started but we weren’t any better. If we are all onboard with teething pain, why didn’t he put the kids on, since he knew we’d let it slide? Instead, he played the starters 91 minutes and about 25 minutes after they were totally gassed.

W4 D2 L8 in the league.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Absolutely spot on. Glad to see there are a few of us still rational and able to see the big picture. So many clueless 'fans' here who couldn't tell you the first thing about tactics screaming bloody murder that Amorim isn't using their favourite 4-2-3-1 or that he just needs to 'ADAPT!' like only they can see the problem but not a coach that has actually played and coached high level football. This thread these days is mostly just sheep lapping up the negativity of the media helping push the 'Amorim Out' agenda, basically finding 100 different ways to tell you why the manager is bad, from the way he walks to the clothes he wears. When criticism of the manager becomes about his body language or how he looks, you know it's all just agenda pushing in bad faith.

Wake up, when ALL our managers in the past 12 years failed to get us seriously competing, things HAVE to change and it needs to start somewhere. This is the only time (Rangnick aside, since nobody listened to his hard truths) that we have had a manager with the balls to upend the rot and actually move the team in a different direction. Whether it works or not remains to be seen, but Amorim has shown the mettle and man management skills to actually be able to pull us through the inevitable turmoil and out into a hopefully better long term future.

Change is painful and transformation needs time. Just the same as making a big change in life. Maybe it won't pan out, but if you don't even have the stomach to try, you're never getting anywhere in life. Clearly these people whining non-stop change careers or get over a divorce in 3 weeks though, because they just need to adapt! We call out our spineless players living off the faded glories of our past, but a lot of our fans sure seem exactly the same.

Be careful lest you fall off your moral high horse!!!

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Get the system ready for who? If the acceptance is that the squad can't play this style, we need to sell to replace, and we have no money... What's the pain for? The same players next season?

It's all well and good saying this in theory, but the reality is we don't have the cheque book to fill the system, and every loss equals less money from the league.

Yes! Why isn’t this obvious to everyone? These players can’t play his system and we aren’t bringing in a whole new XI, so he has to make this bunch work.

He must think that if he gives enough chances that somehow through the law of averages someone will score for us.

20-something games is plenty of time to see the green shoots of new growth, but every player is worse.

 

[Xtal]

Absolutely spot on. Glad to see there are a few of us still rational and able to see the big picture. So many clueless 'fans' here who couldn't tell you the first thing about tactics screaming bloody murder that Amorim isn't using their favourite 4-2-3-1 or that he just needs to 'ADAPT!' like only they can see the problem but not a coach that has actually played and coached high level football. This thread these days is mostly just sheep lapping up the negativity of the media helping push the 'Amorim Out' agenda, basically finding 100 different ways to tell you why the manager is bad, from the way he walks to the clothes he wears. When criticism of the manager becomes about his body language or how he looks, you know it's all just agenda pushing in bad faith.

Wake up, when ALL our managers in the past 12 years failed to get us seriously competing, things HAVE to change and it needs to start somewhere. This is the only time (Rangnick aside, since nobody listened to his hard truths) that we have had a manager with the balls to upend the rot and actually move the team in a different direction. Whether it works or not remains to be seen, but Amorim has shown the mettle and man management skills to actually be able to pull us through the inevitable turmoil and out into a hopefully better long term future.

Change is painful and transformation needs time. Just the same as making a big change in life. Maybe it won't pan out, but if you don't even have the stomach to try, you're never getting anywhere in life. Clearly these people whining non-stop change careers or get over a divorce in 3 weeks though, because they just need to adapt! We call out our spineless players living off the faded glories of our past, but a lot of our fans sure seem exactly the same.

The JD of a manager includes improving the team and effectively motivating them to get results. Amorim has done neither. We've learnt from ten Hag that splashing the cash on a manager's favorite players isn't always the solution, the manager must maximize the tools at his disposal. Can we categorically say our team/players are worse than the 14 teams above us? Tbf, we shouldn't be 15th, this players are capable of much better. The manager's tactics has hamstrung them, they are shackled. Patience is all good, but we must be seen to be moving in the right direction, at this rate, it's backwards pal. Backwards. Hojlund is a willing runner, he works hard, he just needs a better system. Zirkzee has shown he has the footwork to be a technical footballer, a lot of these new signings aren't lazy but the system is ridiculing their ability. Amorim needs to shape up or ship out.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Nobody expected a huge turnaround but 14 points from 14 league games is something else entirely. Not sure where you go from here

Down.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

Starting to have my doubts. Even Moyes has turned things around at Everton with a weaker squad.

Every other team has a new manager bounce except Man Utd.

 

[Martinez4midfield]

Yeah, don't get not using some subs. I mean you're already losing. What's the worse that can happen you lose by more? Is he worried about goal differential?

 

[mav_9me]

If you aren’t gonna trust the academy, especially when forced to, then you are at the wrong club, doubly so with our financial situation.

This a thousand times. We have no hope if we didn't get thru more players from the academy. Part of bringing thru players is giving chances, not even randomly, but in desperate times like these. Shameful from Amorim.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

What big managers have thrown on teenagers that have never played a senior game?

I understand the frustration and I'm frustrated myself as well. I just don't think the solution is throwing on the kids.

Edit: of course we look like a back 5, that's the formation that we play. I don't get that point you've made.

Except we kept playing a flat back 5 today with a simple reverse ball taking out all 5 at once, not to mention our 2 man midfield today were like traffic cops guiding the Spurs players to our goal. We were lucky Spurs were missing a bunch of players and in bad form, otherwise it would have been a spanking .

 

[Red in STL]

The only reason Amorim hasn't been fired is because it would embarrass Berrada et al too much.

Unless the FFP rules suddenly go out the door, we can sign a new squad, and sell all our existing players, we are going nowhere under Amorim.

I genuinely feel for the people who still think he can turn this around. I was the same with Van Gaal at first, then Mourinho, then Ole, then Rangnick and, yes, even Ten Hag. Anyone can go back through my post history and see me clutching at straws for any sign we'd turned the corner under each of those coaches.

It's natural, it's a lot harder to admit we're moving even further away from being back than believing if just one thing goes our way everything will 'click.'

I just can't do it anymore. I can't keep lying to myself every time it goes wrong because I want so badly for it not to be the case.

Take the emotion out of it and everyone can see this coach, with these players, under the current set of FFP rules is not a winning combination. Consciously or unconsciously we are all just waiting for the inevitable.

I can't remember any coach going from literal relegation form on a points per game basis to challenging for the title. It just doesn't happen and it's not going to start here. The senior management at United are trying to pretend that up is down right now. Sadly, reality will hit home eventually. I just wish I was wrong. I am f'd off with the wilderness years.

I might be misremembering but isn't that exactly what Leicester did?

 

[ScholesBrain]

My biggest concern on him is that he never tries to do anything to pump the morale/fight of players on the pitch during the game.
Almost all great managers like Fergie, Pep, Ancelotti, Klopp and Mourinho are masters in this department

When things go wrong, Amorim just looks "defeated" and "gutted", hold his hands, look down on the grass, etc

 

[mav_9me]

That was probably one of the easiest games we have left, maybe not on paper, but Spurs are an appalling side who were there for the taking, and we couldn't do it.

My big worry is we need to see some shoots of growth and positivity before this season ends surely. How many managers go into a new season totally reborn from a position this poor and low?

Doesn't really happen. What usually happens is the negativity keeps mounting and depending on how summer transfer window goes, it could get worse. And so far more time in training on Feb hasn't changed anything. No guarantee we will improve with preseason training.

As they say, you need to sell winning or hope. And without getting youth products in or bit of improvement in our play, he isn't selling the fans anything.

I fear it looks already like he is a dead man walking.

 

[Chipper]

Does what he did at Sporting domestically really prove anything? Can you name the 4th best team in Portugal and who their best player is? Knocking Benfica and Porto off their perch isn't that impressive when they continually sell their best players too.

Portuguese Steven Gerrard so far unfortunately. Delivered long overdue success in a league where there are a very small number of clubs who realistically can achieve then came to the PL and flopped. Gerrard with a marginally better record than Amorim so far. Did about as well as each other in Europe as well until this season and were similarly ranked in UEFA's coefficient system, their respective leagues about as strong as each others.

Coincedentally they were both appointed on November 11th in different years.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

For the guys who keep saying "play the young one's, we're United, it's what we do."

Go and look at the ages some of our greats made their league debuts. Never mind those who played more of a squad role. That at a time when we were on top with a bunch of top senior players.

Fergie didn't just throw around league debuts to 17/18 year olds.

Amorim is no Fergie.

 

[mav_9me]

Attacking?

He’s the most defensive manager we’ve had. Absolutely convinced Moyes would have come in and done miles better with this squad.

Zero doubt about that. But he has a ceiling obviously.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I think that's fair. I'm guessing everyone watching felt a goal was coming.

I certainly did not. We weren’t scoring in a month of Sundays with that attack.

 

[Red in STL]

While I get the argument on Amorim not being flexible, I would point to the following.

1) He didn't want to come till the summer, the club forced him with a now or never ultimatum. Consequently, he has a squad already bereft of confidence and in an awful position.

2) Negligible January reinforcements. While I think Dorgu is showing some promise amd there's a tad more balance to the team, they were absolutely crying out for someone who knows how to finish. That did not happen.

3) While yes, Ruben should be tweaking a bit more to get something out the team, I don't think it's wholly unreasonable to expect some flexibility from the players. They're professional footballers for crying out loud, are you honestly telling me it is THAT hard for them to play a different way. For people saying go back to the 4231 or a 433, I really get why....when the team were quite clearly setting the world on fire these last few years, playing liquid football in those formations.....

4) He needs time. What's he expected to do with a team low on morale, with no money to spend, his form player out injured along with a number of players that would be in/around the first XI. I think for certain, he needs a clean slate in the summer, with players offloaded and funds to bring in young and hungry players, on lower wage contracts than the useless idiots around now and build a spine of a team of fast and eager young players with a few experienced ones to guide them.

I'm not saying he's above criticism. Some of his team selections have been poor, and today for example, he was waaay too cautious with subs. Casemiro was a disaster the entire game and needed to come off.

Good post, I broadly agree, he definitely needs to be a bit more flexible, some positional stability would help, today Maz played as the RCB last week he was LCB, De Ligt played LCB having played mostly as a RCB, Dorgu and Dalot switched sides

Casemiro was poor, if he didn't want to play a youngster he could have put Lindelof on as the DM he couldn't have been any worse, and when he does take Casemiro off it's a couple of mins to go, that was just pointless

 

[Krakenzero]

Without analyzing his performances or capabilities as a manager:

Is the way he wants to play compatible with a club saddled with debt and without the financial possibility of making a full renovation in 1-2 transfer windows?

 

[mav_9me]

For the guys who keep saying "play the young one's, we're United, it's what we do."

Go and look at the ages some of our greats made their league debuts. Never mind those who played more of a squad role. That at a time when we were on top with a bunch of top senior players.

Fergie didn't just throw around league debuts to 17/18 year olds.

Macheda was an 18 y/o debutant who scored the winner against Villa which was crucial win on the way to the title.

He always gave a bunch of youngsters game time, extended periods too.

But I don't need Amorim to be Fergie.

I need him to give youth chances when the situation is dire like this.

 

[mav_9me]

The refusal to make a sub is baffling. We had an unprecedented injury crisis and this was a free hit for him to play the youngsters. He's manager of Manchester United ffs.

I cannot put in words how angry I am at this.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

On the other hand, he could easily have subbed in the youngsters and have ready made excuses for the loss. It also is an easy way to get the fans onside by playing the youth.
I actually think it was quite brave of him to resist the temptation. He did what he believed was the best for the team in the circumstances. Whether it was or it wasn’t is up for debate.

The fact he thought leaving players out there who were so tired they started making hilarious U10 errors isn’t a sign of bravery for me, but a sign of being in over his head with no idea which direction to swim.

 

[Blood Mage]

He’s a bit shite isn’t he? Vastly outperformed by ETH with the same squad.

Spin it however you like, his start has been embarrassingly shit, even if he’s an extremely likeable fella.

He's totally out of his depth, a deer in the headlights. We need to rethink our strategy of hiring managers from weak leagues because not all of them can be Arne Slot.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Spoiler alert: Amorim is the caretaker manager!

 

[Chipper]

For the guys who keep saying "play the young one's, we're United, it's what we do."

Go and look at the ages some of our greats made their league debuts. Never mind those who played more of a squad role. That at a time when we were on top with a bunch of top senior players.

Fergie didn't just throw around league debuts to 17/18 year olds.

He did when we were in a more similar position to where are now. The original crop of Fergies Fledglings from around 1988-1990 when we weren't very good at all and he was under pressure for his job at times.

Lee Sharpe 17. Mark Robins, Tony Gill and Deiniol Graham 18. Then there were a few a little older; Russel Beardsmore and Giuliano Maiorana 19, Lee Martin 20.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Until he figures out his captain is a liability he will never have the control he desires from his team. We're doing nothing in the league anyways. I'd drop Bruno for the rest of the league games and give the others a chance to play without that black hole. Then sell him, Onana, Casemiro and a few others in the summer and start with a clean slate.