Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Amorim can still be successful here if he stops being so stubborn and becomes adaptable.
Football is evolving all the time and you can’t just be stuck on one formation.
Slot has been very good at adapting to different situations this season and that’s why Liverpool are running away with the League.
Amorim needs to do the same and make sure his in game management improves quickly.
If he keeps saying I will not change, he will not be here at the end of the year.
 
Ted Lasso said:
....... Ancelotti the mid table manager from Everton? Finished 12th and 10th with them. If he was so great why didn't he get Top 4?? Everton has spent plenty of money and he got his own transfers in. Hmm?
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Eddy_JukeZ said:
This goes to @JPRouve's point.

Some managers aren't built for mid-table clubs.
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Even then, Ancelotti took over midway through the first season he finished 12th and if you look at only his fixtures that season he was 10th in the table and only 6 points from top 4.

In his 2nd full seasons we signed Rodriguez and Allan that were his signings and the rest were DoF driven. He finished 8 points off top 4 and we were 2nd at Christmas that season.

He wasn't way off it and I think in hindsight you can see how good of a job he did considering what has happened in the years after and though to some of us at the time it felt like we could have been doing a bit better in some games.

Guess that's a problem with football fans though, we always want more.
 
When asked if he can change his approach to win matches
Amorim himself, said, by his own mouth.
'If i knew where the problem is, i would have change'

Probably he doesn't know what to do next. Probably he is out of his depth now. And it's supported by how the team sets up. In that there is zero change or progress in the problems we have.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
When asked if he can change his approach to win matches
Amorim himself, said, by his own mouth.
'If i knew where the problem is, i would have change'

Probably he doesn't know what to do next. Probably he is out of his depth now. And it's supported by how the team sets up. In that there is zero change or progress in the problems we have.
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Pretty much the end of the road
 
Licha-Vidic said:
When asked if he can change his approach to win matches
Amorim himself, said, by his own mouth.
'If i knew where the problem is, i would have change'

Probably he doesn't know what to do next. Probably he is out of his depth now. And it's supported by how the team sets up. In that there is zero change or progress in the problems we have.
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Yeah, that was odd and worrying
 
Licha-Vidic said:
When asked if he can change his approach to win matches
Amorim himself, said, by his own mouth.
'If i knew where the problem is, i would have change'

Probably he doesn't know what to do next. Probably he is out of his depth now. And it's supported by how the team sets up. In that there is zero change or progress in the problems we have.
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His honesty will quicken his downfall. That's the surest way to get fired at pretty much any job, and when you have someone such as Ratcliffe running the shop, it's pretty much inevitable.
 
rooney2009 said:
Slot has been very good at adapting to different situations this season and that’s why Liverpool are running away with the League.
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Liverpool are running away with the league because everyone else has been a bit shit and because Salah is having an insane season. Oh and he took over a highly functional side with a strong identity and structure. If Salah got injured now I wouldn't be entirely convinced they would win the league. Hes been directly responsible for 41 of their 65 goals. Thats 63% of their goals in the league either scored or assisted by Salah.
 
mctrials23 said:
Liverpool are running away with the league because everyone else has been a bit shit and because Salah is having an insane season. Oh and he took over a highly functional side with a strong identity and structure. If Salah got injured now I wouldn't be entirely convinced they would win the league. Hes been directly responsible for 41 of their 65 goals. Thats 63% of their goals in the league either scored or assisted by Salah.
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Yeah he's been insane. Also, how can he stay fit for so long? Pretty crazy right ?
 
Licha-Vidic said:
When asked if he can change his approach to win matches
Amorim himself, said, by his own mouth.
'If i knew where the problem is, i would have change'

Probably he doesn't know what to do next. Probably he is out of his depth now. And it's supported by how the team sets up. In that there is zero change or progress in the problems we have.
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He keeps saying "I don't know" to specific questions asked on our performances, which is a bit worrying. Comes across as he is himself a bit surprised that the things done at the training ground are not translating on match days.
 
Gordon'sHill said:
This is true. The recruitment post Fergie has been abysmal and frankly it was getting worse under him. Our scouting is awful and our use of data really poor. We basically gave ETH free reign to sign players from Ajax or that played against him. The squad is now the worst I have ever seen. We need to only buy players that will suit a range of managers, we cannot be tied to Amorim's obsession with a back 3 and make our squad even worse. He then needs to make the most of it.
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This is the thing right, when you buy top quality players, they can play multiple systems.

Look at top teams, and their top players VVD, Konate, Macca, Salah can all play in any system. When they sign players its not for one system either.

Arsenal are similar, Saliba, Rice, Odegard, Saka can all play various systems.

If the player has all round ability, you can play 2/3/4 at the back variations of whatever system, they adapt because they are good footballers. Yes, in some systems you need the odd specialist but you dont need 11 system specialists.
 
romufc said:
This is the thing right, when you buy top quality players, they can play multiple systems.

Look at top teams, and their top players VVD, Konate, Macca, Salah can all play in any system. When they sign players its not for one system either.

Arsenal are similar, Saliba, Rice, Odegard, Saka can all play various systems.

If the player has all round ability, you can play 2/3/4 at the back variations of whatever system, they adapt because they are good footballers. Yes, in some systems you need the odd specialist but you dont need 11 system specialists.
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I'm not about this.

If Arteta had started the season off shit at Arsenal and been sacked in September and a new manager insisted they were gonna play 343, they would have struggled. Maybe not to the same extent but there would have been a few issues.

This isn't like changing from say 4231 to 433 or something similar. It's a fundamentally different formation where 6 or 7 players are asked to perform very different roles.
 
Insanity said:
He keeps saying "I don't know" to specific questions asked on our performances, which is a bit worrying. Comes across as he is himself a bit surprised that the things done at the training ground are not translating on match days.
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Even here some people still don't know you can't play with 2 man midfield in EPL. It's suicidal.
So i can understand even Amorim is in that ship.
But it is a worry nevertheless, he doesn't understand this.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
When asked if he can change his approach to win matches
Amorim himself, said, by his own mouth.
'If i knew where the problem is, i would have change'

Probably he doesn't know what to do next. Probably he is out of his depth now. And it's supported by how the team sets up. In that there is zero change or progress in the problems we have.
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Players are looking at him saying i don't know what to do to address the issue in press conferences and then expected to buy into his solution in training? And we wonder why none if his ideals are being translated into the pitch.
 
Fracture90 said:
There need to be signs of improvement before further commitment in the transfer window. When there's improvement, it's easier to point at deficiencies and improve upon. As things stand we're looking so poor under Amorim that one doesn't know which hole to plug first.
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Well this is the conundrum isn't it. We probably should have hired a more standard manager to steady the ship and spent a couple of years rebuilding the squad to fix the wage structure, the quality and application issues that the current one has.

They decided to go nuclear and now they are in a really awkward place. They have backed themselves into a corner and now they have 2 very risky decisions to make. Do they sack Amorim and go with a more traditional and conservative manager who will not do anything drastic despite the club needing something drastic. That manager will still want a lot of new players in the summer. The other option is to throw that money at Amorims desires and hope that with better players and a summer to coach them, things come good.

Honestly, I think we are such a mess at the moment that it actually wouldn't take that much to turn things around. We clearly aren't as bad as results and performances on the pitch suggest. Our players are professionals and they are struggling to do the basics. With 3-4 good signings that integrate well and some confidence returning we would suddenly be transformed IMO.

I think thats where Amorim is struggling. He can't figure out why these players are not able to do even the most basic things on the pitch when it comes to match day. Why they retreat into their shells at the first sign of adversity.
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
I'm not about this.

If Arteta had started the season off shit at Arsenal and been sacked in September and a new manager insisted they were gonna play 343, they would have struggled. Maybe not to the same extent but there would have been a few issues.

This isn't like changing from say 4231 to 433 or something similar. It's a fundamentally different formation where 6 or 7 players are asked to perform very different roles.
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Thats fine, your opinion. I tell you now they wouldn't have struggled. I have seen Conte change 4-3-3 after 5/6 games to go to a 3-4-3 and win the league.

How are 6-7 players asked to perform different roles? CB's still have to defend? 2 CM's still got to do what CM's do, ST still got to do the same role.

The difference is 10's and the wing backs.

Also, there is no one that can tell me that the formation is the reason our defenders can't head the ball out for set pieces? How many goals do we concede from set pieces? Is this because the formation is different?
 
mctrials23 said:
The press from Everton was weak but it still caused us so many problems because there wasn't enough zip to our passing, no movement and no confidence from our players. They are so short of it that no one wants to be the one to lose the ball after showing for it so they simply don't show. Which is stupid because then when you get the ball you don't have options either. Its a fundamental issue when players don't want the ball. Its an issue that players don't have the confidence to turn with the ball and run into space or at players. Its no coincidence that when Garnacho has been coming on later in games and starts doing that, the whole team looks better.
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Yeah, it's the lack of courage, you need to be brave to play the football he wants. He won't mind you making a mistake by trying things, not trying is unforgivable.

Garnacho is from those breed of attackers who have a goldfish memory, which can be both good and bad. Even if he's tackled a 100 times, he'll still go at it, won't shy away from it, however, because he also keeps going at it he tends to not look at other options.
 
mctrials23 said:
Well this is the conundrum isn't it. We probably should have hired a more standard manager to steady the ship and spent a couple of years rebuilding the squad to fix the wage structure, the quality and application issues that the current one has.

They decided to go nuclear and now they are in a really awkward place. They have backed themselves into a corner and now they have 2 very risky decisions to make. Do they sack Amorim and go with a more traditional and conservative manager who will not do anything drastic despite the club needing something drastic. That manager will still want a lot of new players in the summer. The other option is to throw that money at Amorims desires and hope that with better players and a summer to coach them, things come good.

Honestly, I think we are such a mess at the moment that it actually wouldn't take that much to turn things around. We clearly aren't as bad as results and performances on the pitch suggest. Our players are professionals and they are struggling to do the basics. With 3-4 good signings that integrate well and some confidence returning we would suddenly be transformed IMO.

I think thats where Amorim is struggling. He can't figure out why these players are not able to do even the most basic things on the pitch when it comes to match day. Why they retreat into their shells at the first sign of adversity.
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"Hope", it's hope that kills you. That, imo, is the biggest issue, because due to the lack of clear or vague, or any really, signs of improvement, we're now resorting to blind faith and hope that things would change if we, pick a generic phrase from the following;

- are to give him more time
- are to give him a full transfer window
- are to give him a full pre-season
-all of the above.
 
Fracture90 said:
"Hope", it's hope that kills you. That, imo, is the biggest issue, because due to the lack of clear or vague, or any really, signs of improvement, we're now resorting to blind faith and hope that things would change if we, pick a generic phrase from the following;

- are to give him more time
- are to give him a full transfer window
- are to give him a full pre-season
-all of the above.
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The question is, what else is there. We need to start bringing in solid players for whoever is the manager come next season. Any new manager won't be any more of a know quantity when it comes to success than Amorim. Personally I think that the club just needs to stick it out for a few years and make sure that we are making the basic decisions correctly.

There is only so badly it can got for a club with Uniteds size and resources if you do the following:

- Buy quality players for reasonable fees and put them on reasonable market wages. You don't pay over the odds at this point. I don't care who you miss out on. Its too risky. You need to know what sort of team you want to build and build it. The managers you hire should be willing to work with this team without wide ranging changes. 2-3 players? Yes. 6-7 players? No.
- You move injury prone, low quality or players that have attitude players on quickly.
- You give a manager a summer transfer window and a season to work and if they aren't performing at the level you expect then you replace them.

The manager should be replaceable and your squad quality should be the highest priority. You don't win things without a good manager but you certainly don't win things without good players and replacing a manager costs far less than even a single mediocre player.

This is why United backed themselves into a corner here. They know they have masses of work to do but they have a big gamble to make if they are going to keep Amorim.
 
For reasons we dont know they bought in someone with a specialist system that has a clear blueprint on how to beat it. And that person only has that Plan A.

I can almost guarantee Ten Hag wouldnt have had us where we were. The only thing Amorim has done for us is get rid of Rashford.

He's got to go I'm afraid before we waste money in the summer.

Bring Ole back.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Listen...

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He's done about 1000 pressers by now with the same negative/stupid questions so don't read into it, I do feel the body language now is a bit broken which worries me though. Very armchair psychologist/fan of me, but he is under huge pressure given the form we're in, even if he has guarantees from above. Ipswich feels absolutely huge for all the wrong reasons.
 
Xeque_279 said:
Yeah, it's the lack of courage, you need to be brave to play the football he wants. He won't mind you making a mistake by trying things, not trying is unforgivable.

Garnacho is from those breed of attackers who have a goldfish memory, which can be both good and bad. Even if he's tackled a 100 times, he'll still go at it, won't shy away from it, however, because he also keeps going at it he tends to not look at other options.
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I don't get the impression its the managers ire they fear because as you say, I don't think a manager is going to be happier with a player ducking under the parapet and doing nothing good vs taking some chances and making the occasional mistake. Also, we make so many bloody mistakes with this approach that its not even that "safe" play benefits us. Something is clearly going wrong but in a team sport things quickly fall apart when even a couple of players don't do their jobs and offer outlets.

Garnacho IMO has come on a lot under Amorim when it comes to being less selfish. He looks for his teammates now when he very rarely did under EtH.
 
Is he cracking up a bit? It’s not looking good at all and I can see half the squad waiting in the wings for him to be fired rather than put in the effort to turn their form around.

Surely there are tweaks he can make if he must keep 3 at the back. He should have carried on with 4 at the back when he came in and slowly experimented with his formation. I know we where poor with 4 at the back as well but we weren’t this bad.
 
Yes he's stubborn with is formation that is not suited AT ALL with our players.

I would say that on Saturday's starting XI at Everton, only Onana-Ugarte-Hojlund are playing in their natural position. The rest are adaptation mainly.

Should he revert to 4-2-3-1 until the end of the season and then change ? Probably not

He has been hired with this style, he has to impose things to the players. Let grab 10-12 more points and finish the season the best we can, then let him offload them all and start with fresh players, with better mindset.
 
Chaky_Best said:
Yes he's stubborn with is formation that is not suited AT ALL with our players.

I would say that on Saturday's starting XI at Everton, only Onana-Ugarte-Hojlund are playing in their natural position. The rest are adaptation mainly.

Should he revert to 4-2-3-1 until the end of the season and then change ? Probably not

He has been hired with this style, he has to impose things to the players. Let grab 10-12 more points and finish the season the best we can, then let him offload them all and start with fresh players, with better mindset.
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How?
 
Does United employ a sports psychologist? He admitted after the game that the players didn't do anything they'd been practising during the week during the first half.

We need that lady from Ted Lasso.
 
We should be able to back him without having to worry too much about players only suited to a system, because 1. players should be able to adapt anyway and 2. our main issues (lack of physicality/athleticism and lack of goals) need fixing regardless of who the manager is.
 
Drainy said:
Suspicious clipping..

Sounds like he was about go into how the players are not transferring the gameplan from training to the game. Which is what every manager since Ole has called the players out for.
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Says more about the managers imo.
 
The Mitcher said:
Says more about the managers imo.
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I'm not sure where I stand on this one. At the end of the day, hypothetically these players could be getting top class coaching and instructions, the coach could be leaving training thinking 'right, I've cracked it' and that the players are showing signs of getting it and are fired up for the game. But then when they go out and play like they did in the first half...what are you to do? I don't know where the truth in the matter lies, but I think Amorim is an honest guy and if he thinks they're not doing things that have been worked on all week then it's an issue.

If I was in his shoes I'd be tearing strips off the players, I think that's probably what Fergie, Pep, Arteta, Klopp etc would all be doing too. But this is the issue, Amorim has done this and they still haven't responded. So what should happen? What sort of character will the players respond to? He was extremely defensive of the players when he came in, saying the media had written the players off but he thinks they are good enough etc. Then he's took the tough approach.

The only thing anybody can say is to try going back to the 4231 or something like, but we got absolutely battered all last season in that formation. We could go for a flat 433 to solidify the centre, but I don't trust our attackers in the slightest to perform the duties that would be required in that sort of system. It's just a complete mess and, unfortunately, no matter if we sack him, he changes formation, whatever, we are going to just have to suffer now because it's not going to get better this season.
 
I'm genuinely curious to know how people think we can turn this season round? Who can actually play in midfield other than Ugarte? Mainoo has struggled this season and is injured. Casemiro and Eriksen don't have the legs, Mount is forever injured. Bruno can play there but often brainfarts and leaves us wide open for a counter attack. Collyer has been ok but also injured.

Now where are the goals coming from? It's not Hojlund, he's been awful for close to 12 months. Zirkzee isn't a goal threat, Amads injured. Garnacho has a very low conversion rate. We don't have anyone up top other than Bruno and he's got a low conversion rate too.

I know you're all losing your shit and yelling at Amorim to change, but what wand can he wave to solve any of this with the players at his disposal?

We even have fans saying we shouldn't support him in the Summer with the transfer money? What an idiotic suggestion. The squad is crying out for forwards, we desperately need a consistent forward, we've not had one since Martials form dipped. Signing a player like Cunha for example is hardly going to become a problem for next Manager is it? We need midfield and forward options. We needed them last season and with Eriksen/Casemiro being shown the door along with hopefully Antony/Rashford there's going to be a huge hole and a lot of freed up wages ready.

The importance is we don't waste our money on more young projects unless they're a trully special talent. Or 30+ players unless they're on very low wage/transfer fee. What we need is 23-27 year olds to come in and immediately be first teamers.
 
pocco said:
I'm not sure where I stand on this one. At the end of the day, hypothetically these players could be getting top class coaching and instructions, the coach could be leaving training thinking 'right, I've cracked it' and that the players are showing signs of getting it and are fired up for the game. But then when they go out and play like they did in the first half...what are you to do? I don't know where the truth in the matter lies, but I think Amorim is an honest guy and if he thinks they're not doing things that have been worked on all week then it's an issue.

If I was in his shoes I'd be tearing strips off the players, I think that's probably what Fergie, Pep, Arteta, Klopp etc would all be doing too. But this is the issue, Amorim has done this and they still haven't responded. So what should happen? What sort of character will the players respond to? He was extremely defensive of the players when he came in, saying the media had written the players off but he thinks they are good enough etc. Then he's took the tough approach.

The only thing anybody can say is to try going back to the 4231 or something like, but we got absolutely battered all last season in that formation. We could go for a flat 433 to solidify the centre, but I don't trust our attackers in the slightest to perform the duties that would be required in that sort of system. It's just a complete mess and, unfortunately, no matter if we sack him, he changes formation, whatever, we are going to just have to suffer now because it's not going to get better this season.
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It's way too convenient for these managers that are failing to turn around and say the players aren't following my instructions when their systens aren't working. Especially so when it's clear Amorim is putting square pegs in round holes. It also begs the question as to why the players would ignore instructions from the training ground? It can't be all 25 men in the team.
 
mctrials23 said:
The question is, what else is there. We need to start bringing in solid players for whoever is the manager come next season. Any new manager won't be any more of a know quantity when it comes to success than Amorim. Personally I think that the club just needs to stick it out for a few years and make sure that we are making the basic decisions correctly.

There is only so badly it can got for a club with Uniteds size and resources if you do the following:

- Buy quality players for reasonable fees and put them on reasonable market wages. You don't pay over the odds at this point. I don't care who you miss out on. Its too risky. You need to know what sort of team you want to build and build it. The managers you hire should be willing to work with this team without wide ranging changes. 2-3 players? Yes. 6-7 players? No.
- You move injury prone, low quality or players that have attitude players on quickly.
- You give a manager a summer transfer window and a season to work and if they aren't performing at the level you expect then you replace them.

The manager should be replaceable and your squad quality should be the highest priority. You don't win things without a good manager but you certainly don't win things without good players and replacing a manager costs far less than even a single mediocre player.

This is why United backed themselves into a corner here. They know they have masses of work to do but they have a big gamble to make if they are going to keep Amorim.
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That is a million dollar question, innit?

The more you think about it, the more damning is the fact of just how much unprepared this club was for post Fergie transition.

Currently Amorim has everything going against him. Bad results, bad setup, reluctance/inability to adapt, incredibly poor performances on the pitch.

Think we should cut our losses, let him down the drain and come summer, get ourself a manager that can play attacking football but make it clear from the get go, that he must be able to improve on what we've got.

When results aren't there, but you're playing good, showing signs of what you're aiming to accomplish, people at least have hope that it can be better based on what they're seeing.

But when everything is bad, whilst we look like crap on the pitch, frustration keeps mounting.
 
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