This is true.
UNLESS, we buy an entirely new squad for RA - that could see us in the top 3.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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UNLESS, we buy an entirely new squad for RA - that could see us in the top 3.
What about next season? If we play with our current form, from the get-go next season should see us battling in the bottom 5 of the table.
This season was always going to be written off, which is why I berated INEOS in the Summer and many people said that I was being impatient and that I should give them time.
I knew INEOS weren't cut out for the job and this is now being proven to be true.
At least under the Glazers (who I want gone), we would rely on them spending big and bringing in superstars. This would paper over the cracks.
Under INEOS, I don't see this happening.
Man you really are on a roll today... I noticed your name on a lot of "special" posts but this one really is taking the cake...
But I guess, this is the time to howl at the moon. Maybe, just maybe we finally get rid of the owners and only then we will be able play good football. Like teams like Brentford or Nottingham Forrest.
Just sounds like limited understanding of football to me. With all due respect, we aren't struggling because we miss experts in a specific formation. We are struggling since years, the underlying numbers are bad since years. We have fullbacks who don't contribute anything of note to the attack we have no noteworthy midfield at all. We invested in young strikers who are currently crushed by the pressure which comes from a completely dysfunctional unit where players get outfought all over the pitch and look 2nd best in 90% of their duels. The notion that when we bring in players that are better ones than the current lot we will have no use for them once Amorim might lose his jobs is crazy.
Yeah in the grandtotal of what - 3 month? Truly shocking. It is so shocking that a bad team with mostly struggling individual players continue to struggle in a different system. A B S O L U T E L Y shocking.
He may genuinely be sacked before the end of the season at this rate. Sort of feel for him, sort of don't. Think we may be in an even worse hole with Ineos than when it was just the Glazers.
I don't think we need a new squad. What we need are some consistent goal threats. Get two of those and suddenly the team can play on the front foot as teams will know we can actually hurt them. Right now nobodys scared of us, why should they be? We don't score and haven't looked like a semi decent attacking team for 3 or 4 years. Two goal scoring forwards and 1 proper DM to play alongside Ugarte would transform this side, i'm not suggesting we'd be top 3 contenders, but we'd be certainly pushing for a CL spot.
Cunha for example would be a very sensible purchase. Used to the PL, scored 12 last season and on 12 this season. Already has a reputation in the league so teams and defenders will know he's a genuine threat, still young too and entering his prime. We'd probably be able to finance his transfer with the sales of Rashford and Antony. That leaves cash for a Garnacho replacement/competition a RWB and a CM. There's many players i'd love to bin completely but with a few decent purchases things can very quickly swing around again.
It will come down to how we perform against Ipswich and other sides down there in the coming weeks.
I agree that it looks unlikely at the moment, but if he were to lose the next two games, that would be a whole world of trouble.
Everton have gone on a bit of a run of late and they could be out of sight if we lose there next weekend.
My problem is that everything seems defeatist - the body language, the formation with three defenders, the quotes on being worse than Ruud and ETH. It's got to sink through to the players when a manager seems so unbothered by what's collapsing around him.
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I speak 8 different tongues but the word wingback is fast becoming my least favourite word
I don’t know how many managers were going to have to sack for some on here to realize that chopping and changing is not going to fix our issues. It’s going to get worse before it gets better. This is decades worth mismanagement and recruitment errors that we’re trying to rectify. It simply cannot just disappear. Back the manager ffs.
It's concerning that he flirted with the West Ham job to be honest. He flew in for talks which he couldn't agree upon before backtracking and said he made a mistake.
Super coaches don't talk to West Ham.
The manager needs to give us a reason to back him. I’m not seeing much from Amorim so far to suggest things will improve. I’m not going to blindly back a manager.
I was looking forward to a few of those kids getting a run out and was annoyed the the coach didn't put any of them in. But feck it. I'm glad we didn't have to heap praise on a 17 year old because he was the only player in a united shirt that gave a feck for the 15 minutes they where on the pitch.
Why should these kids have to bail out Bruno, Casimero, Nacho and Hojland against a weak Spurs team when the points are all that mattered. Bruno was a fecking disgrace today and the football talent that may have potential between Zirkzee and Hojland is settled. That was my take away from today. We are finishing bottom eight this season for sure but a showing in the cups has to be emphasized to these players. If I was a United regular right now who actually gives a crap I would target the cup games and spill every drop just to show the fans that I have the hunger to get the club back to a position to be proud off.
I also can't stress enough how disgraceful Bruno was today in his passing. I truly belive a player of his talent could have won us this game if he just had some fecking patience. Quarterback back the ball by drawing fouls and moving us up the pitch instead of recklessly hitting it nowhere.
Why should these kids have to bail out Bruno, Casimero, Nacho and Hojland against a weak Spurs team when the points are all that mattered. Bruno was a fecking disgrace today and the football talent that may have potential between Zirkzee and Hojland is settled. That was my take away from today. We are finishing bottom eight this season for sure but a showing in the cups has to be emphasized to these players. If I was a United regular right now who actually gives a crap I would target the cup games and spill every drop just to show the fans that I have the hunger to get the club back to a position to be proud off.
I also can't stress enough how disgraceful Bruno was today in his passing. I truly belive a player of his talent could have won us this game if he just had some fecking patience. Quarterback back the ball by drawing fouls and moving us up the pitch instead of recklessly hitting it nowhere.
I kind of think you need to commit to 343 even beyond amorim if we go that way. If were not going to have our academy teams playing it, if the next manager isn't going to be playing a 343 come hell or high water then call it quits now.
Its a big commitment to change and it'll take years to pay off. You just cant be flip flopping back and forth and wasting our limited budget
Its a big commitment to change and it'll take years to pay off. You just cant be flip flopping back and forth and wasting our limited budget
Yeah he gets a free pass for me until mid next season-ish. The contingency plan is the most important bit. We must be prepared to sack him and not look totally incompetent like we did with Ten Hag. What's the contingency plan? Selling all our wingers (Rashford, Garnacho, Antony) isn't it.
If they're really committed to the 5-3-2, they need to call guys like Conte / Tuchel now. At the very minimum don't sign any more wing backs who will look clueless in about five minutes if we go back to a back four.
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This assumes, that you have any advanced insight or knowledge about the topic. Do you? If not, it is fine to not be happy at the moment. But all this calling him out and dragging the idea of sacking into the limelight is doing nothing than pile on even more pressure and make the environment even more unconstructive.
His talent was always there. He just wasn’t given a chance under ETH.
Not calling for him to be sacked because that would be idiotic but there are concerning flaws that are to be seen which we cannot become blind to. Zero improvement since he took over. And those who are saying this squad is 15th level bad (which I don't believe) then that would mean amorim would need 15 new players, ain't happening. So he has to work with some of the players and improve them.
It’s pretty dire, but it isn’t the system’s fault that our forwards can’t put a ball away.
The league is done. We’ll lose most of our remaining games, probably 20 defeats or more.
One of wolves or Ipswich will finish 17th and we will be 16th.
I dont particularly blame Amorim for what he has inherited.
I’m sure we can recruit a bit in the summer.
But i’d ask the same question as I asked after ETH had his contract extended on the idea the FA Cup win changed the run of league results last season - how often/have you seen a manager turn around a nosedive like this? Because this nosedive is running all the way until May
One of wolves or Ipswich will finish 17th and we will be 16th.
I dont particularly blame Amorim for what he has inherited.
I’m sure we can recruit a bit in the summer.
But i’d ask the same question as I asked after ETH had his contract extended on the idea the FA Cup win changed the run of league results last season - how often/have you seen a manager turn around a nosedive like this? Because this nosedive is running all the way until May
The biggest concern I have with him is his inflexibility to any situation or opponent. The best of the best are always ready to tweak their systems or completely change it. Why would you be so desperately married to a single formation when you are getting hammered in every game?
If he does not soon find out that a midfield two will not work in the PL, then he will be another manager in our heap.
I think, there is nothing wrong with that. Rashford doesn't want to be here. At least he isn't giving away any impression of that. The way he wants to play or the team to play for him to flourish isn't going to cut it at the highest level. He is NOT good enough to warrant such steps. Antony is a winger that isn't exactly dangerous in front of goal, nor fast nor willing to take on players. He can be tenacious and has a decent fitness record. You think, we can't do better than that? Garnacho is a talent. I can see people struggling to feel comfortable selling somebody like that. But the team is struggling. Our midfield issues are very very deep and we have to invest there. Garnacho right now is a moments player but nobody knows, if he is good enough to be more than that. He isn't a good dribbler, he isn't a good finisher (even though he seemed to be initially) and he is very greedy.
None of those players is struggling because of the formation. They struggled before that too. Garnacho and Rashford interpreted their role as wing forwards but the rest of the team wasn't capable of balancing the implications that would have come with that.
Overall point I agree with though. A contingency plan is paramount but actually it is no matter how good or bad it is going with the current manager.
I’m backing Amorim until he has a real off season and a chance to add a few players that can not only play his system but athletically can compete in the PL.
Dalot 25
Zirkzee 23
Ugarte 23
Hjolund/Amad 22
Garnacho 20
Dorgu 20
Mainoo 19
Yoro 19
I’d say that’s 9 out of 10 starting level players. Incredibly young team. Another reason we’re struggling, young players can be talented but are consistently inconsistent. We never seem to have more than 1 or 2 firing. Not an easy league to have a young team and what should be the “leadership” group of Bruno, Casemiro, Rashford and Maguire are part of the old guard that proved they couldn’t do it.
Dalot 25
Zirkzee 23
Ugarte 23
Hjolund/Amad 22
Garnacho 20
Dorgu 20
Mainoo 19
Yoro 19
I’d say that’s 9 out of 10 starting level players. Incredibly young team. Another reason we’re struggling, young players can be talented but are consistently inconsistent. We never seem to have more than 1 or 2 firing. Not an easy league to have a young team and what should be the “leadership” group of Bruno, Casemiro, Rashford and Maguire are part of the old guard that proved they couldn’t do it.
The adapt their formations but not their principles. The reason his midfield isn't working is because the players he has aren't up to scratch. We bank on two light weight AMs to play there because apart from them, we have no noteworthy passing capability there, we bank on a teenager to somehow save us, a new player to the league a former name in Casemiro. No midfield combination has been able to control a midfield or win midfield battles. It has nothing to do with the formation.
I agree with lack of tactical flexibility part. There is nothing suggesting till now that this 3-4-3 or 5-2-3 or 5-3-2 , whatever we play suits any of our player. I was hoping a week of training will bring some improvement but none so far. In fact we look to have regressed.
We backed the last 4 managers blindly and honestly you have to ask yourself: Has it really worked out?
They just gone out and bought utter crap which is later classified as 'mismanagement', so we've actually been backing mismagement.
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Isn't it Boavista or Braga?
Obviously it's a big step up to the Premier League, but he took a Sporting to their first titles in nearly 20 years. Knocking off Benfica and Porto is a massive achievement there. He was on the way to his third before he joined United. Plus, his sides beat Arsenal and City in the Champions League, so it is not like his team / system could only work in Portugal.
Adapt to what? Im not sure if you have not been watching but we have a group of players that cant seem to do the basics at time. Garnacho blazes 10 foot over the bar when one on one. Hojlund cant hold the ball up. Dalot cant put in a decent cross. What does the manager adapt to that solves these issues?
Would love to see what Pep would do with this bunch of crap.
I think if he does get sacked, (but I am sure he will be given next season), then no big name manager will want the job under the current owners. Its a poisoned chalice under them. Southgate would probably be back in the frame.
He's still got my backing. Play whatever formation tactics you like, we still won't score enough goals.
Agree - the hand he has been dealt is very poor.
Though i do think that there is a case for putting more boddes in the position of need. For me, we cant control a midfield the two deeper and the two 10s we have. Garnacho wants to be wide so vacates the central area where one of Amorims 10 should be. And today playing Zirkzee there, well he had some decent moments, but he aint Goncales or Trincao, who Amorim had at Sporting.
He had ideal players for those roles at Sporting. Maybe Ugarte is the only one with a profile that would fit the criteria, maybe Bruno at 10.
That just makes me feel we should be playing with one less center back for now and put that body in midfield. Make a 3 so we are not short in those areas because right now, we are getting overran.
For 10 mins in the first half, Spurs had over 75% possession. You cant retain the ball when you dont have any control of midfield.
Which PL club would stap Garnacho, Hojlund and Zirkzee for their current front three?
That was probably one of the easiest games we have left, maybe not on paper, but Spurs are an appalling side who were there for the taking, and we couldn't do it.
My big worry is we need to see some shoots of growth and positivity before this season ends surely. How many managers go into a new season totally reborn from a position this poor and low?
My big worry is we need to see some shoots of growth and positivity before this season ends surely. How many managers go into a new season totally reborn from a position this poor and low?
He plays with three CBs to be able to stay safe when the wing backs join the attack. In 3atb formations also one CB is expected to step into midfield situationally. Right now, it is a hot mess because players do not fully understand their roles and, more importantly in the case of the wingbacks, aren't really suited to it. And to control a midfield, you can't just look at the midfield players unfortunately. It isnt as simple as that. Whatever the plan was today, no doubt it didn't work but it isn't just the formation. Amorim went ballistic at times, I am sure, there was stuff going on that really wasn't in his instructions. And, lets be fair as well - his hands were pretty tied today given the injury list.
He is a brilliant communicator and listening to his press conferences makes you feel that everything is going to be alright. I have never seen a manager so clear and so honest in their communication. If he wants, he can be the president of Portugal tomorrow, that's how good he is.
None of it is translating on the pitch though. We look like a clueless bunch out there with no standout feature. There are no signs of improvement on either the defensive or the offensive side of the game.
Our PL record under him so far is:
P14 W4 L8 D2 GF16 GA23 GD(-)7
- We haven't scored in 6 of these 14 fixtures. In 43% of those games.
- Have won a whopping 28.5% of the games and lost 57% of them.
- Have scored 1.14 goals/game & conceded 1.6 goals/game
- Seven of the 14 fixtures have been at home and we have won only 2 of them - against Everton & Southampton.
- Lost the other 5 and didn't score in 3 of them.
No matter what the adversity that is simply not acceptable. We are much better than what we have been showing on the pitch. He gets till the end of the season from me to earn our trust beyond that. I won't spend a penny on the positions he desires to strengthen if we continue on our current trajectory. Lesser teams would have fired a manager who loses 8 of their first 14 league games. We, as a club and fans, are more patient than anyone else in the world of football. I really hope Ruben comes through for us and can steady this ship. Even if we are faltering in the league we need to do well in the both the cup competitions we are in and do whatever we can to win Europa. We cannot afford a season with reduced sponsorship deals and no European football money. In our state a major loss of revenue will make things much harder for us.
None of it is translating on the pitch though. We look like a clueless bunch out there with no standout feature. There are no signs of improvement on either the defensive or the offensive side of the game.
Our PL record under him so far is:
P14 W4 L8 D2 GF16 GA23 GD(-)7
- We haven't scored in 6 of these 14 fixtures. In 43% of those games.
- Have won a whopping 28.5% of the games and lost 57% of them.
- Have scored 1.14 goals/game & conceded 1.6 goals/game
- Seven of the 14 fixtures have been at home and we have won only 2 of them - against Everton & Southampton.
- Lost the other 5 and didn't score in 3 of them.
No matter what the adversity that is simply not acceptable. We are much better than what we have been showing on the pitch. He gets till the end of the season from me to earn our trust beyond that. I won't spend a penny on the positions he desires to strengthen if we continue on our current trajectory. Lesser teams would have fired a manager who loses 8 of their first 14 league games. We, as a club and fans, are more patient than anyone else in the world of football. I really hope Ruben comes through for us and can steady this ship. Even if we are faltering in the league we need to do well in the both the cup competitions we are in and do whatever we can to win Europa. We cannot afford a season with reduced sponsorship deals and no European football money. In our state a major loss of revenue will make things much harder for us.
Anyone can string good words without the results
A great motivation speech is only as good as the results, without them chatgpt can make a great one
It depends what the aim is. A couple of goalscorers could turn us into a top half side instead of the 15th best side.
But if we want to be a reliable top 4 side we've got a long long way to go.
We have glaring weaknesses all over from back to front. A really bad goalkeeper, the slowest selection of centre backs there has ever been, no wingbacks who offer anything in attack (discounting new signing as too early to judge), no partner for Ugarte and no depth in midfield if our first choice are out, and we maybe 1 good attacking player (Amad) when really we should have 5 or 6.
Is he even up for the job?
Like someone said, most of our ex managers have won great things in the past yet none of them can cut it quite in the EPL (Jose aside)
Modern attacking manager is all good when you're in 2nd class league. Doing it in the EPL where most team fields full international capped XI and a selection of the best coaches which can see your game plan from miles away.
Is the young attacking modern manager concept is proven to be high risk low chance of success?
Like someone said, most of our ex managers have won great things in the past yet none of them can cut it quite in the EPL (Jose aside)
Modern attacking manager is all good when you're in 2nd class league. Doing it in the EPL where most team fields full international capped XI and a selection of the best coaches which can see your game plan from miles away.
Is the young attacking modern manager concept is proven to be high risk low chance of success?
He’s a bit shite isn’t he? Vastly outperformed by ETH with the same squad.
Spin it however you like, his start has been embarrassingly shit, even if he’s an extremely likeable fella.
Spin it however you like, his start has been embarrassingly shit, even if he’s an extremely likeable fella.
Attacking?
He’s the most defensive manager we’ve had. Absolutely convinced Moyes would have come in and done miles better with this squad.
How has he improved them? Amad was always a talent who Ten Hag ignored
It's not even he has failed to improve any player he has actively made them worse.
I would be easy of giving him money to spend as well when chances are he will do a ten hag and just buy players he knows.
We are supposed to have staff now that can identify the right players for the club and they are getting paid more than enough for the job.
He hardly makes early subs.
He always tends to make most after 70 mins when we are trying to grab a goal for a draw rather than early on so we have 45 mins to try and go for the win.
He is a very reserved manager who I think is more like a Simeone for a team like Atletico Madrid trying to compete with Barcelona and Madrid - but in most seasons will end up 2nd or 3rd compared to a more free flowing team.
I haven't seen any ability for him to manage Barcelona for example without thinking that alot of their players don't fit his system because well, he only plays his system 100% of the time.
He always tends to make most after 70 mins when we are trying to grab a goal for a draw rather than early on so we have 45 mins to try and go for the win.
He is a very reserved manager who I think is more like a Simeone for a team like Atletico Madrid trying to compete with Barcelona and Madrid - but in most seasons will end up 2nd or 3rd compared to a more free flowing team.
I haven't seen any ability for him to manage Barcelona for example without thinking that alot of their players don't fit his system because well, he only plays his system 100% of the time.