Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

The Oracle said:
I'm beginning to look at the whole picture with Amorim before his arrival at United, which includes looking at a story that is never mentioned...

He was REJECTED by West Ham before we took a gamble on him, with the Hammers' hierarchy not convinced by him because of his lack of experience outside of Portugal (https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/revealed-the-real-reason-west-ham-rejected-ruben-amorim)

We're currently 15th in the league, after Amorim has collected just 14 points from his 14 league games in charge, with 4 wins, 2 draws, and 8 losses.

Let's put it another way... now that Amorim has had some experience in the Premier League (albeit only a few months), would West Ham consider hiring him as their manager?
The answer is NO, he wouldn't even get an interview.

With the greatest of respect to West Ham, if they could see that Amorim wasn't the right fit for the Premier League, then why couldn't we see it?

Amorim's only saving grace this season, will be if he delivers a trophy, otherwise it will be an absolute disastrous start (in footballing terms), to his tenure at Manchester United.
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He’ll walk into another job post United, at a bigger club than West Ham too. The whole footballing world knows we’re a mess.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
It's a valid argument, but it can't become a cop out for the manager. There are 8.2 billion people on this planet and, if Amorim got the sack tomorrow, you would struggle to find someone who would deem the decision not in the least unjustifiable. He's currently doing much worse than Potter at Chelsea. We would he laughing our arses off, if this was happening at Liverpool.
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I don’t care if he’s sacked to be honest, mentally I’m checked out from growing any sort of attachment to anybody that represents this club these days. But if these players aren’t brought to task over this then we’ll go nowhere. I think fans are in some sort of denial and want to blame the formation, forgetting that these players failed in the 4231. They failed to exert control over any game whatsoever, no matter what level of team we were playing. They couldn’t pass for shit, defend for shit, and generally looked like they’d meet for the first time even after playing together for over 2 years.

Perhaps we’ve just hired one fraud after another, who knows? But I do know that Iraola or anybody else will fail here with these players too. Watch Bournemouth and what they do well, then tell me the last time you’ve ever seen our players do these things. At this point it’s just going to be a case of throwing enough shit at the wall in the hope that something sticks.
 
chris123 said:
People calling on him to be sacked, give your head a wobble. You've absolutely lost the plot.

More wins against top 4 clubs in half a season, than Ten Hag did in his entire tenure. But losing 1-0 away at Spurs with a bench entirely made up of youth players is the final straw for some people?

Maybe we could you know, at least give him one transfer window?
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Until the winter window next season, that’s when I’ll have had enough if we don’t see any progress. He’ll have had 3/4 of this season, summer break and transfer window and half of next season.

No more excuses after that.
 
Stig said:
Which or our players do you think would get into the Everton, Wolves and Fulham squad each week ?

I would say Bruno, Amad and maybe Ugarte, and definitely Garnacho.
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Almost all of them would for Everton and Wolves. Fulham are a bit better so it might not be so comprehensive. As bad as our recruitment has been in the last couple of years, there's no doubt that we're still massively underperforming relative to what we have in the squad.
 
RedSky said:
Genuinely bizarre that people attempt to defend Rashford and Antony and use it as something to attack the club with. They've been dogshit at United for fecking months. We all should be happy Antony's doing well in a different league, we might actually get some money for him if he keeps it up. Just agenda posting nonsense.
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Thing is, if we get money for them, that means they were good players. If they are crap players, we wouldn't get good money for them.
 
Laurencio said:
The largest PSR loss period drops out this summer, so we can if they want. If we buy players who are genuinely good, that whole manager thing doesn't become a huge problem.

Just buy tall, athletic, quick and technically proficient players. At worst they become squad players for another manager.
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PSR doesn't change the fact that our financial situation and cash position are shit
 
I back him.

It’s hard to judge because this is by far the worst collection of players I can remember us having. A band of misfits left over from five managers
 
I'm pretty sure that if we played 4-3-3 and to the strength off these players, Glazers would have returned every penny they sucked out of this club and made the toxic feeling that's been at the club for about 5 years just disappear. But that's just my opinion.
 
RedSky said:
Genuinely bizarre that people attempt to defend Rashford and Antony and use it as something to attack the club with. They've been dogshit at United for fecking months. We all should be happy Antony's doing well in a different league, we might actually get some money for him if he keeps it up. Just agenda posting nonsense.
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100%
 
All the injuries are a blessing in disguise, he'll have another excuse if the results remain bad and it will accelerate the development of the young players.
 
Stig said:
Which or our players do you think would get into the Everton, Wolves and Fulham squad each week ?

I would say Bruno, Amad and maybe Ugarte, and definitely Garnacho.
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Probably Bruno and Amad for Fulham but they have Berge who we should have gone for instead of Ugarte in the summer but people wanted the more expensive name.
 
pocco said:
What about if we hire the guy this squad was custom built for, Erik Ten Hag? Surely that’ll get the most of of them. Based on getting the most out of this squad he has to be top of our list.
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Ten Hag did a bad job, that doesn’t mean Amorim should do an even worse job.

If he’s better than ETH, then he would get more out of the players. Only player he has improved has been Amad. Everyone else has regressed. Even Maz and De Ligt looked better under ETH. Garnacho has not scored or assisted a goal under him.

Liverpool had doubts over Amorim and we should have had the same concerns, but we pressed along because we thought City would make a move.

Like I said previously, I have my doubts over the quality of the Portuguese league. You got Bruno Lage, Periera, Loputegi, AVB, Jorge Jesus etc winning the league. And most of them have flopped outside of Portugal. Only exception has been Nuno, but he was sacked by Spurs for not being good enough. Then you have Mourinho who is in his own league and Amorim should not be compared to him.
 
CM said:
Almost all of them would for Everton and Wolves. Fulham are a bit better so it might not be so comprehensive. As bad as our recruitment has been in the last couple of years, there's no doubt that we're still massively underperforming relative to what we have in the squad.
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Yep. Also, our squad is worth double the value of Everton's, not because we over paid, market value. We aren't getting the best out of our squad, be that motivation or system.
 
We have made years of terrible decisions and consistently bailed ourselves out of the very worst of it through sheer luck or spending our way out of the most perilous of trouble. Eventually it all comes home to roost and the crisis reaches boiling point. The years of terrible recruitment leading to a shit squad and no money to spend, an injury crisis, a crisis of confidence. Years of terrible and diametrically opposed coaching pathways.

Eventually you have to pull the plaster off and reset everything, whether you like it or not. The only thing we have to build on is youth. That’s it. There’s nothing to be salvaged from our recruitment or previous coaching work. It’s a complete reset from top to bottom. As long as we don’t get relegated this season it doesn’t really matter what results are this season, we have to build a new basis and new foundation for moving forwards. Jettisoning Amorim or compromising on the vision just delays the inevitable and is more patchwork “solutions”. We’ll be right back to mediocrity in no time and be so in perpetuity.

Days like today, what can you say? A narrow defeat with 12 senior players out, a bench full of 17 and 18 year olds, most of whom who haven’t even made debuts. In an already flawed squad, that’s a difficult set of scenarios by any measurement. We just have to survive this season, recruit sensibly in the summer and then, hopefully next season can actually make a run at being a decent top six side. The players will have had time to assimilate to the new approach, tactics and standards and the team will hopefully have been augmented with a few specialised players. It’s always worth remembering how fine margins are at the top level.

Its also true that it is always darkest before the dawn, and that this day has been coming for a long, long time. We spent hundreds of millions under Ten Hag to get much, much worse. We have Sancho, Antony and Rashford all out on loan. 160m pounds of recent acquisitions and the big star from the academy. Three players who were supposed to be the face and threat of the team. All washed out. This disaster has been brewing for years, and the legacy of massive, stupid signings, and egregious contracts is coming home to roost. Eventually we were going to have a season that was an utter, unmitigated disaster, and here it is. Putting it on Amorim is akin to calling the fire brigade to put out an inferno, and then blaming them for the blaze. He didn’t even want to take over until the summer because he could see what a tragic mess it was. Well, he showed his faith in us and now we have to in him.

Fergie took over a massive shambles of a mess too and it took him several years to sort it out, including some really low moments. People called for his sacking. From the outside it is incredibly hard to judge the work he is doing on the inside, all we do know is that unlike the previous several managers, he doesn’t have a massive budget to work with, hasn’t been able to make any notable signings except a youth player from Arsenal and a youngster from Lecce. Of all the managers who have come and gone and been given time, his circumstances and his track record would tell me that he deserves the most patience. Not least because switching gears yet again seems to make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

This is a clusterfeck of epic proportions but it’s a clusterfeck a decade in the making. The only vaguely sensible decisions I’ve seen us make have happened in the last 6-8 months, and how sensible those will prove to be is still yet to be determined. What I do know is that where we are now is not of Amorim’s or Ineos’ making. Whether they are the ones to get us out of it and build a brighter future is as yet unknown, but I’ve seen enough and been around long enough to know that they didn’t create this mess. And the way they’ve gone about resetting the club and making decisions, has more logic to it than at any point since Fergie retired. Unfortunately it’s just far too little, far too late, to avert the doom that has engulfed us this season. Statistically we should’ve been in this position already last season, and it was by sheer luck that we weren’t. This isn’t the result of one or two bad decisions, this is the result of scores of terrible decisions over a very long period of time. Looking for acute solutions to a chronic problem is missing the point entirely. This requires institutional reform.
 
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Our transfers are just shocking. Is it the board or the scouts or laziness in the club board that are happy to sign these players. Compare our transfers with someone like Liverpool. Liverpool needed a rebuild of their midfield and got rid of Fabinho and Henderson quite easily. Signed Mcallister, Gravenbach, Sobolizai for 150 million. We signed aging Casemiro for 70 million whos stats showed he was on decline in La Liga, a limited Ugarte for 45 million who didn't start for PSG and injury plagued Mount for 50 million. Who in their right mind is deciding the transfer. You could go on and on. We sign Sancho who showed he was rubbish for England, Hojlund for money you'd want an expierenced goal scorer for. I just don't understand how we are so bad at transfers.

Now onto Amorim, his formation of 3-4-3 is never going to win us titles with the current players at the club. Any manager I expected to come in would try and implement a 4-3-3 system which protects the full backs and gives wingers space and be able to press effectively. 4-3-3 is basically what all the top teams play. Our midfield is just shocking. If it didn't work this season we could wait till Summer till we get better players in but people would understand what Amorim is trying to do. I don't think any United supported has fate in this 3-4-3 system that Amorim is trying to implement. It just won't work in the premier league. Teams are just to quick and powerful.
 
The Oracle said:
I'm beginning to look at the whole picture with Amorim before his arrival at United, which includes looking at a story that is never mentioned...

He was REJECTED by West Ham before we took a gamble on him, with the Hammers' hierarchy not convinced by him because of his lack of experience outside of Portugal (https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/revealed-the-real-reason-west-ham-rejected-ruben-amorim)

We're currently 15th in the league, after Amorim has collected just 14 points from his 14 league games in charge, with 4 wins, 2 draws, and 8 losses.

Let's put it another way... now that Amorim has had some experience in the Premier League (albeit only a few months), would West Ham consider hiring him as their manager?
The answer is NO, he wouldn't even get an interview.

With the greatest of respect to West Ham, if they could see that Amorim wasn't the right fit for the Premier League, then why couldn't we see it?

Amorim's only saving grace this season, will be if he delivers a trophy, otherwise it will be an absolute disastrous start (in footballing terms), to his tenure at Manchester United.
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38 points in 38 would usually mean relegation, literally relegation form.

This is bad.
 
2 man midfield said:
If we went down I think he would get the sack, which would sort of defeat the purpose of getting him in mid season. We should’ve just gone with an interim then Ruben in the summer if we weren’t prepared to sit through them learning this system.

Not that I agree with it, I think he’s been far too stubborn for his own good. Many of these players won’t even be here to play it if Ruben stays for a couple of years.
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If we went down who our mamager is would be irrelevant. We'd be fecked.
 
I am beyond shocked that he did not think of changing something. Just bring on a kid, even if it is for nothing. He was just sitting there like deer in front of headlights, not thinking of making a single change as the playing XI just did feck all.

To make it worse, he brought on the kid in the 90th min. Why bother?? What is that supposed to mean or indicate?

And all this after getting the 7-8 days of training that he craved so much.

I am so disappointed.
 
How do you play 3 CBs and still be so absolutely shit at the back. I have seen zero improvements in any position on the pitch. If anything we've regressed horribly. How.
 
Someone said:
So far he doesn't play like one here. Early days and this isn't about him, but it does feel like we play with 5 defenders.
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What, in his 1.5 games so far? And what do you mean, it isn’t isn’t about him? You blamed Amorim for playing 5 defenders today, including him. I’m pointing out that he’s not a defender and it just feels like you’re peddling criticisms that aren’t valid today. If he can’t even play attacking wing backs then why don’t you just say you don’t like the system instead of making things up?
 
We can’t completely blame Amorim, let’s face facts

1. We got the broke Billionaire and INEOS who have history for destroying football clubs.

2. We clearly got the intern at City as our new CEO who did very little apart from make the teas and the coffee for Pep and Tixi!

3. We got the Technical Director who was DOF for the bottom PL team this season and seems to have run out our only competent appointment, Dan Ashworth!

4. We recruited six players and none of them had previously played in the EPL and we wonder why they are struggling because they are all struggling, I don’t want to hear MDL is mint or Mazraoui is great, they don’t move the needle.

5. We dominated Youth football last year with a domestic under 18 treble and none of those players have been given minutes this year when we are as woeful as we’ve been this year?

6. We recruited the best young Manager in Football yet the young manager at Brighton has taken 6 points off of us already this season


SPINEOS would have you believe they are best in class and they’ve recruited “Best In Class” The reality is they are a sporting jinx, a liability that operates in their own arena of consistent failure!

The sooner they get out the better, we need the whole lot going Glazers, INEOS and Sir Jim too!
 
The worst thing for me is that, whilst we’ve never looked at home in this system, i think most of us felt that there were some positive signs a while ago. It feels like we’ve actually somehow gone backwards at times. Probably doesn’t help when Amad and Mazraoui have been poor recently, when they were the brightest sparks in this system. I have to say it but I also thought we looked much better with Mount at no 10.
 
pocco said:
What, in his 1.5 games so far? And what do you mean, it isn’t isn’t about him? You blamed Amorim for playing 5 defenders today, including him. I’m pointing out that he’s not a defender and it just feels like you’re peddling criticisms that aren’t valid today. If he can’t even play attacking wing backs then why don’t you just say you don’t like the system instead of making things up?
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Is that really your issue here? Ok I hate the system, and he played with 4 defenders, and one who isn't a defender but felt like one. Hope this is more acceptable sir.
 
Adamsk7 said:
I back him.

It’s hard to judge because this is by far the worst collection of players I can remember us having. A band of misfits left over from five managers
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I think players signed are from 3 previous managers, but still. it is always going to be the case when you sack 4 managers in 6 years.

No manager is going to get a whole new squad.
 
pocco said:
The worst thing for me is that, whilst we’ve never looked at home in this system, i think most of us felt that there were some positive signs a while ago. It feels like we’ve actually somehow gone backwards at times. Probably doesn’t help when Amad and Mazraoui have been poor recently, when they were the brightest sparks in this system. I have to say it but I also thought we looked much better with Mount at no 10.
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We cant put this on Amad.

Mazraoui has stunk since Ten Hag left, imo.
 
stevoc said:
How so?

Did anyone including Amorim expect a transfer bonanza in the January window comnsidering the club is now skint?
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No but if you’re going to hire him and insist that he joins mid season you then have to wonder what they was expecting. It’s pretty obvious his style and system aren’t suited to this set of players

Everything points to him joining next summer he could have worked with the club to establish targets and let Ruud stay on on the meantime it just seems like a daft decision
 
chris123 said:
People calling on him to be sacked, give your head a wobble. You've absolutely lost the plot.

More wins against top 4 clubs in half a season, than Ten Hag did in his entire tenure. But losing 1-0 away at Spurs with a bench entirely made up of youth players is the final straw for some people?

Maybe we could you know, at least give him one transfer window?
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Just because he has done something EtH didn't doesn’t mean he is good enough. Thats not how it works.
 
Bojan11 said:
Ten Hag did a bad job, that doesn’t mean Amorim should do an even worse job.

If he’s better than ETH, then he would get more out of the players. Only player he has improved has been Amad. Everyone else has regressed. Even Maz and De Ligt looked better under ETH. Garnacho has not scored or assisted a goal under him.

Liverpool had doubts over Amorim and we should have had the same concerns, but we pressed along because we thought City would make a move.

Like I said previously, I have my doubts over the quality of the Portuguese league. You got Bruno Lage, Periera, Loputegi, AVB, Jorge Jesus etc winning the league. And most of them have flopped outside of Portugal. Only exception has been Nuno, but he was sacked by Spurs for not being good enough. Then you have Mourinho who is in his own league and Amorim should not be compared to him.
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The problem is, Ten Hag did a bad job with a team built for his football. Why should Amorim do a better job when he’s playing a completely different system? If you look at it, this was all pretty predictable. Amorim seemed overly negative at first when he kept talking about tough times ahead and not playing well even after convincing wins, so he clearly knew what was coming. Ineos apparently didn’t move on him in the summer as they knew our squad was ill suited to his system.

So really, none of this should come as too much of a surprise. The question for me is, what’s the plan now? Are they expecting a lean summer or are they going to somehow invest to sort the problem they clearly knew about? If not then none of this makes any sense whatsoever.
 
chris123 said:
People calling on him to be sacked, give your head a wobble. You've absolutely lost the plot.

More wins against top 4 clubs in half a season, than Ten Hag did in his entire tenure. But losing 1-0 away at Spurs with a bench entirely made up of youth players is the final straw for some people?

Maybe we could you know, at least give him one transfer window?
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Struggle to see how this is true
 
chris123 said:
People calling on him to be sacked, give your head a wobble. You've absolutely lost the plot.

More wins against top 4 clubs in half a season, than Ten Hag did in his entire tenure. But losing 1-0 away at Spurs with a bench entirely made up of youth players is the final straw for some people?

Maybe we could you know, at least give him one transfer window?
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He won against City. Arsenal game was a draw.
Ten Hag:
Won against Arsenal, Liverpool (league and FA), City.
 
gaffs said:
We cant put this on Amad.

Mazraoui has stunk since Ten Hag left, imo.
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I’m not putting this on Amad at all, he’s allowed to lose form as he’s only young and most players go through periods anyway. But he was honestly carrying us in many ways and helped make us more fluent, especially in the RWB position.

I disagree on Mazraoui, thought he was one of the best players in the earlier games under Amorim. It didn’t last long though, and I didn’t think he looked great in the back 4 either as he has nothing going forward. His best performances here, for me, came at RCB under Amorim.
 
CM said:
Almost all of them would for Everton and Wolves. Fulham are a bit better so it might not be so comprehensive. As bad as our recruitment has been in the last couple of years, there's no doubt that we're still massively underperforming relative to what we have in the squad.
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They wouldn't. Not the forward options anyway.

It's alright praising Amad but the lad hasn't yet shown he can physically give you full seasons at the top level. Talented or not you have to be available.

Garnacho's finishing has been diabolical. It's been lower Prem League standard at best. In fact I reckon there are Championship forwards who could finish better.

Hojlund hasn't scored in an incredible amount of league games now(incl last season). That is literally relegation standard goalscoring.

I generally like all three players but they're not ready to play for United. Not consistently anyway.
 
Between now and the end of the season he surely has to build some momentum.. otherwise there’s no point in him staying.

We are showing zero signs of progress currently which is a major worry.

I really don’t like his rigid system either - 5 at the back is just meh.
 
Amorim doesn't have the tools as his disposal right now.

He built his Sporting team around two defensive midfielders (Hjulmand and Morita), defenders with recovery pace that can push up high, two technical and creative 10s who could dribble, wing backs and forward in Gyokeres, and before him Paulinho, who could lead the line and act as target men who could bring others into play.

Very few of the ingredients are there. But to continue with the cooking analogy, if you don't have the ingredients, then you have to made something else for dinner.

It is getting even harder when you have to player Bruno and Casemiro as your two defensive midfielders and Zirkzee and Garnacho will never be who he would profile to fit into the role as his inside 10s.

I think he probably thought he would stick to his guns and not change, but may be having regrets now. Very hard to turn back but perhaps with all the injuries he has an excuse to change to a different system and put more bodies in the areas where we are lacking, which for me is center of midfield - that is if we have bodies!
 
I like him but I'm concerned the job may be too big for him. He's looking seriously troubled. He's a 'wear your emotions on your sleeve' type of guy but that has its downsides when all the shit hits the fan. Part of leadership is carrying a strong air of confidence that others can latch onto.

I'm also very concerned by his lack of faith in the youth. It's really early days and I shouldn't probably say that after a game where the bench was dominated with young players, but it genuinely doesn't feel like he counts on them for the future. Morale is the pits right now and the fans are getting sucked into this lack of hope vortex. Ten Hag and Ole could have delusional positivity most of the time but Amorim is the opposite extreme. It genuinely feels like he is losing any faith in turning this around.

Maybe (hopefully) there's an element of this that is staged to reduce expectations so we can rebuild with a younger squad next season full of academy promotions and cheap hidden gem types. Perhaps this is our massive step back so we can take a huge leap forward. But I'm not convinced...

We almost have to back him but if he doesn't feel he can take us forward and signs are no better by the end of the season, we might have to review it. I can't honestly believe I'm saying that. What a shitshow.
 
Gotta play Casemiro as a midfield anchor in front of back three, then two attacking mids in front of him, two central forwards. period.
 
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