„Rashford would have been perfect in this new system“
Bafffled about the level of criticism he gets… not saying he didnt make mistakes but way over the top for me
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Bafffled about the level of criticism he gets… not saying he didnt make mistakes but way over the top for me
Simeone transformed Atletico, a notoriously poorly managed club in a matter of weeks. From memory they were utterly useless defensively and almost magically, he made them shut the shop and play with high intensity. Within a year, they were the undisputed third best team behind two all time great teams.
You and I have a very different definition of “definitely”
We should almost certainly be getting dropped out of both, because we are a poor side. However, we do have an outside chance at each.
I 100% agree with you as a great coach will find a way with players they wanted or players that were recruited for them and in a worst case scenario they tweak their system in order for things to work, the problem is we have none of the above happening and for all Amorim’s statements of not enough time to coach on the training pitch there has been time to work out his best eleven and to tweak things in order for things to work for now.
It goes back to what I originally said though in that it’s why non footballing people shouldn’t be making footballing decisions and Ashworth as Sporting Director and the person heading the footballing department should have been allowed to do his job in regard to whether ETH stayed on or not, our footballing style and identity, instructing the scouting and recruitment departments and who replaced ETH whether it was Amorim or not and it 100% should not have been Brailsford or Berrada as they are no different to Woodward or Arnold.
I think Amorim is potentially a fantastic head coach but I do think he needs the right set up in place so he can have the players he wants, play his system and has footballing people above him like he did with Hugo Viana whereas at United no one knows who’s in charge as Brailsford and Berrada seem to be making footballing decisions whilst an actual football person in Wilcox is just kind of there, having a genuine structure and hierarchy where everyone has set roles and a Sporting Director in charge of the footballing department would stop things like every new manager having a different system to the last and needing an overhaul wouldn’t keep happening.
Teams that could beat us in the Europa - any of them, since we struggled to beat Southampton
Teams that could beat us in the FA Cup - any of them, since we struggled to beat Southampton
We could win them both, as easily as we lose to the worst team in it. Liverpool, City and Arsenal showed when we get going, we can play and knock these teams out of cup competitions. But a lot of the time we are just shit.
Teams that could beat us in the FA Cup - any of them, since we struggled to beat Southampton
We could win them both, as easily as we lose to the worst team in it. Liverpool, City and Arsenal showed when we get going, we can play and knock these teams out of cup competitions. But a lot of the time we are just shit.
While mentioning this are you going to mention Amorim transformed Sporting and won the league twice against the bigger, richer and better teams of Benfica and Porto.
I don't know Amorim, so no I won't mention something I'm not familiar with.
You know Simeone? You go for beers together every Friday?
This is how it's obvious you're not posting in good faith
I know what Simeone the coach has done, I followed Atletico closely. I used to follow SCP until Jorge Jesus left and know very little about what happened since.
So, any examples of people saying this or... ?
But using a search engine takes 2 minutes, especially if you are going to use other managers achievements vs Amorim, in the Amorim thread.
You see that's the thing. I don't consider that 2 minutes of Google gives me any clear idea about what a manager is and isn't, or what he has actually done from a technical standpoint. But that's only me.
Also I there is no reason for me to mention Amorim, the question was how long simeone and Ancelotti coached their current teams with an actual Football hierarchy. Simeone took over a fire tire of a Football club.
I'm aware of Atletico since I have family in Madrid, theres also the fact other teams fell off the cliff such as Valencia losing David Silva and Villa and Unai Emery.
I think the league is weaker too, we cant compare La Liga with the Prem with Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Man Utd, Tottenham and now Newcastle and Villa.
No shit?
You’re reinforcing their point. Regardless of the situation at Sporting, Amorim did well.
He was clearly a good coach for that level. Remains to be seen if he can do it in the PL, with multiple coaches of similar and better experience.
Fair enough, Simeone made no difference.
I don't post much on here but I'll try to give my view on our manager by comparing him to others in a similar time frame.
Klopp took 3 seasons to get Liverpool flying.
Lego Pep again took 3 seasons to get Arsenal as a title challenger/big team.
Our club has been ruined by mismanagement upstairs with them cretins the Glazers family and their idiot workers doing their work for them.
Now Ruben is here with a plan and with upstairs people backing him. This season, I don't care about. Next season, with a transfer window, he gets his players in. We stuck with a bunch from Jose, Ole, Erik squads.
Look up when Ruben first started out as a manager players and fans didn't like him and his tactics. By the end of that season, they loved Ruben and his tactics.
Klopp took 3 seasons to get Liverpool flying.
Lego Pep again took 3 seasons to get Arsenal as a title challenger/big team.
Our club has been ruined by mismanagement upstairs with them cretins the Glazers family and their idiot workers doing their work for them.
Now Ruben is here with a plan and with upstairs people backing him. This season, I don't care about. Next season, with a transfer window, he gets his players in. We stuck with a bunch from Jose, Ole, Erik squads.
Look up when Ruben first started out as a manager players and fans didn't like him and his tactics. By the end of that season, they loved Ruben and his tactics.
Folks, Amorim is going to build a young, hungry, athletic and dynamic Manchester united team, but it's going to take time.
Stop worrying about the next game and take a longer term view of it with what I've said above in mind at all times.
The recruitment strategy is very clearly aimed at this long term goal.
I hope the leadership team have the balls to see it through and to ignore the fecking whining of fans wanting an instant fix.
Stop worrying about the next game and take a longer term view of it with what I've said above in mind at all times.
The recruitment strategy is very clearly aimed at this long term goal.
I hope the leadership team have the balls to see it through and to ignore the fecking whining of fans wanting an instant fix.
You are getting quite tedious, FYI
He has made a huge difference we all know that but I'm saying the league isn't as competitive.
Simeone is a modern great, he has made a team of assholes but with technicality nobody likes to play them.
The conveyor belt of talent he's helped too I have no doubts, I'm saying that Spanish football has been shit for a long time, Valencia fell off a cliff during the same time.
I don't think Simeone would be a great Prem manager but in Italy and Spain I think his style works.
La Liga dominated the 2010s at a continental level and especially the early 2010s, no league was more dominant. If La Liga was so poor then why other leagues struggled to beat spanish teams in both the EL and CL?
This point seems to be raised a lot, we're talking about the relative strength of the league meaning anyone can beat anyone in the Prem, in Spain you assume a win for the top 3.
Hence managers come to the Prem from other leagues and it's not always easy.
Also Messi and Ronaldo were dominant in that era. Which is why Real won the majority of the CLs and Barca.
Yes we had Villarreal win a lot of ELs in that time too.
And the point was that assuming a win for Atletico wasn't a thing before Simeone, he created that expectation with his work. Surely that point is obvious?
Also the PL part is BS, the bottom half PL teams don't win more than in other leagues.
Again within Spain yes, I think in Spain and Italy his style is great.
That wasn't point, you keep moving the goalpost. And you share fallacies, have a look at La Liga right now and compare it with the PL, look at how many wins teams have across the board, do the same with Serie A.
That’s the point Malacia is fullback, while Antony is winger. The idea is Amorim considers wingback as winger. That’s why my original question was ‘’Why didn’t he try Antony as RWB if he considers wingback as winger then?’’
"RA is getting an easy ride," is just not the case. It's so bizarre when people say stuff like that which is blatantly false.
I'm not talking verbatim. But there are many sentiments of "just wait, Amorim will improve us and you are just impatient" in response to any criticism. That might be the case but on current sample size of Utd games and his broader CV I see zero objective evidence to convince me yet.
I also include anyone trying to make the assertion that 3-4-3 is inherently a better formation or better than 4-2-3-1 in that bucket.
I mean, the above is fine, but when you come out with complete fabrication such as "many people say he's playing some high level 4D chess that no one else understands," it's going to get called out, because it shows you're either not discussing in good faith or incapable of understanding nuance in others' opinions. You come across as quite disingenuous.
Last edited:
Dealing with player power. Sticking to his philosophy and unlike LVG & ETH not abandoning it the minute results went against him. Sometimes you need long term pain to make greater long term progress.
We do and we’ve been to Wembley at lot in the last two years but this might genuinely be the year of a Forrest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Palace, Newcastle or Villa to win the cup.
Perspective they are all much better than us right now!
Neville used always be “a manager needs 3 transfer windows before he can be judged” other pundits used to follow that line. But this “3 windows” nonsense was shouted most loudly when Ole was manager.
Unfair criticism. It’s beginning to pile on. Scholes, is suddenly an expert on inverted fullbacks and fully opposes it. Funnily enough not a word against it when Pep did/does it. In general the theme is becoming Amorim needs to abandon his tactics.
Either Mainoo or Garnaucho will be sold in the summer, neither really suit Amorim’s system.
I think there’s been an overestimation of his own managerial abilities coupled with an underestimation of how much more difficult the PL is from the Portuguese league. Part of that is the PL has players in every team that are as good as the best players in Amorim’s team. The drop off is not as dramatic. Every once in a while we get clubs that are heading straight for the drop from the first game, but more frequently the newly promoted clubs have some fight in them.
ETH had a similar strategy to build a team not playing on the counter. He failed spectactularly. Amorim's first 3 months suggest that he might also not be up to the task. There is very little progress. If he manages us next season I hope we don't buy any systems players.
Before Amorim joined Sporting mid season they finished previous seasons
3rd 74 points, 11 off Porto in 2nd
3rd 78 points, 3 off Benfica in 2nd
3rd 70 points, 6 off Porto in 2nd
Amorim managed two titles getting them into the 80 point range and also finished 4th in 2023.
Amorim's 2024 title really was impressive with the arrival of Gyokeres, they finally racked up lots of goals and points. Sporting weren't that far off before Amorim and under him their results in the CL and Europa are quite a mixed bag with defeats against poor to average sides and some hammerings.
3rd 74 points, 11 off Porto in 2nd
3rd 78 points, 3 off Benfica in 2nd
3rd 70 points, 6 off Porto in 2nd
Amorim managed two titles getting them into the 80 point range and also finished 4th in 2023.
Amorim's 2024 title really was impressive with the arrival of Gyokeres, they finally racked up lots of goals and points. Sporting weren't that far off before Amorim and under him their results in the CL and Europa are quite a mixed bag with defeats against poor to average sides and some hammerings.
Never seen the 3 windows thing until recently TBH. Probably just seen it in different forms.
Ole got my backing because he got performances and results. That's the standard. Achievements.
Wait, so you post a question as a rhethorical, then get an actual answer that shows the question didn't help your argument as planned, then you proceed to completely and ramdomly move the goalposts?
Kind of embarrassing
As I said you're taking a throwaway expression verbatim, yes no one literally said that but underlying sentiment I completely stand by.
I'm very happy to hear your views on where you think Amorim is showing enough promise that you think there is solid ground to expect improvement with new players, pre-season etc.
It's not just the results which are the issue for me (which are worse than we'd hope) but his tactical and personnel choices are very questionable/inconsistent. One example being Garnacho he's talked about needing to learn how to play inside per his formation etc, who was then dropped for Leicester. 45 mins in he changes his mind and brings him on, and we proceed to effectively win the game through Garnacho consistently running on the outside. To me it still feels like he's throwing mud and seeing what sticks on basically everything other than the nominal formation shape.