This feels like a bad approach to me. Once we get the new man in, we're back to square one and integrating a new philosophy. At this point, our best bet is to identify a good manager with a good philosophy and build a team that will challenge. If he does leave, we get someone in who can reuse the same players in a similar setup and not make wholesale changes.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Ten Hag already did it, looks at the squad when Rangnick took over to now it's had the surgery already and now it needs it again
I agree that big managers always adapt very fast and are able to find a solution when they get into a slump. They are also able to change tactics and approach depending on the personnel at their disposal.
But hiring a prem proven manager wouldn't have guaranteed better results, Moyes was prem proven and it didn't work for us.
I'm not sure what's so funny about what he said. It's fine to disagree but he has reasonable thoughts.
What’s funny? Everything said is more than plausible.
As if this fanbase would have been satisfied with a Frank type manager, coming in and just "getting results". This latest hiring is proof too many of our fans our gutless and don't have the stomach for anything actually difficult. All talk.
Not quite. What he said was we needed to go for a manager who is more adaptable and if the high quality is not available, go with a stable one while we build.
If you read his post it's not unreasonable, you're just fixated on the Frank bit and ignoring the actual point they made. The poster is not averse to gutting and building, but under coaches who have adaptability in their game. Not dogmatic and rigid ones.
An anecdote about Baggio and Ancelotti where it turns out that the moral of the tale is that we should have hired... Thomas Frank.
What a story, Mark.
and I stand by what I said. People would whinge and moan if we did that too. I'm glad your Ten Hag blindness has opened up your mind though.
That post wasn't a whinge and moan.
And this has feck all to do with ten hag. Try to debate reasonably.
It appears you can't reasonably make a point without talking about unrelated nonsense.
Explain why were players in the first half against Leicester always running into wrong positions to press. They were literally opening new üassing opportunities for them.
Don't know, the gap is still big between academy and senior football, but sure there are many promising players.
I have heard once from anither team thatacademy players shouldn't be clrsning after themselves as they are learning to be footballers not cleaners. But that's the time where you buiöd culture and character.
There is sticking to your principals and there is being downright inflexible.
There has been so many occasions in the second half of matches since November where we have been chasing a goal and yet still playing with three centre backs. Surely you sacrifice one of them to bring on an extra midfielder or attacker?
That’s not abandoning your principles, that’s adapting to the in game situation.
There has been so many occasions in the second half of matches since November where we have been chasing a goal and yet still playing with three centre backs. Surely you sacrifice one of them to bring on an extra midfielder or attacker?
That’s not abandoning your principles, that’s adapting to the in game situation.
I rarely agree with VP given his obsessive posting about ETH and excuses galore. But here you are right, its possible to have a senisble date. We are now seeing the same blind faith and exact same posts from the ETH era, how time and training and new players will miraculously change things. But the more time he spend with the team the worse they get, and also the clarity of what he is trying to do fades with wierd choices. Its looking more like ETH than anything else. I hope I am wrong, but top managers are flexible and do adapt, thats what success looks like. There is danger we made the same mistake with Amorim, a manager that has only had success in one pretty weak league, but also once wedded to a system. Spurs turned down ETH and West Ham did the same with Amorim. I dont like to see Frank disparaged, I have often though we could do a lot worse. I used to go to Brentford a lot and they played really good football, playing out from the back, despite selling a couple of players every year. I fear we are in for a rocky 12-18 months.
I am not blaming ETH but that is simply not true. Before the new managment came in this summer we signed or loaned hojlund, mount, onana, amrabat, bayindir, evans, antony, casemiro, martinez, malacia, sabitzer, weghorst, dubravka and erikson. Have I forgotten someone?
Some of them are unlucky or might turn out to be good but as of now there isn't one which really improved the team Ole had. If it was ETH who was in charge of this so much needed "open heart surgery" then he did a terrible job in my opinion.
I think he has "abandoned his principles" in the same way ten hag did in year one. It's his preferred system but a more conservatively executed one. And thats only ever palatable if you're getting results.
He's been secretly doing that and we've been gravitating towards a 4-4-2 like in the last match. Amad was generally way higher up the pitch to be considered a RWB in the Leicester game although he did track back.
He could also be a slow mover, some coaches that aren't inflexible are also not necessarily quick to change things. To go back to Simeone, he has shown the tendency to give a lot of rope to his favored players and tactical approaches but in what may seem out of nowhere he is able and willing to make big changes. While I expect to see improvements over the next 5 months, it's not fair to label Amorim definitively because managers don't all move at the same pace.
ETH has always been a conservative manager, that's what he was with Twente and how he got the Ajax job.
Ancelotti was heavily criticised by chelsea fans as not being adaptable and not being a league winning manager.
Not having a plan B, not chaning games with subs. Playing same old same old in the 2010/11 season was also aimed at him.
Surely there he also had less options as at RM with Bale for example coming of the bench and changing the game.
That was 14 years ago when he was 51.
What you need to know about CA is that he likes to self reflect and doesn't take himself so serious.
I guess he learned more about that Baggio point, you are trying to make, later when he had Kaka.
This.
I try to stay away from this thread but everytime I look into it I feel the need to comment.
In a way, i agree with this. Can blame fan base for wanting to win.
But after ten years of dreadful decisions, maybe a bit of time and patience for a different approach would be adequate.
Ruben is a long term worked, he show it in sporting. But his way doesnt allow anyone to hide. If good, you will increase value. If not good, it will be shown mercilessly.
Ineos changed coach profile, recruiting profile, spending profile. They deserve a bit of time.
Was he conservative with Ajax?
If he had maintained his attack minded approach with this system and we were losing games 5-4 or 3-2 then the mood amongst the fans would be far less negative. At the moment we can’t score, we can’t control the midfield and we concede for fun with 6 defensive players on the pitch.
Its already been done. The problem is we had dr nick riviera as the surgeon.
It sucks when people take a dogmatic approach towards a new manager and do not allow any alternative point of view. Isn't it?
Yeah I'd argue the system in itself is conservative with 3 CB's and 2 wing backs. Going for games more and cutting out starting again at CB time after time should be doable with these players.
If this is a thinly veiled jab at me, you can revisit my posts. I rarely "disallowed" anyone else's views when things got sour in the previous reign. They however constantly had an issue with mine.
Dogmatic is right.
Not everything is about you.
Hence if.
The simple fact is regardless of the results we need to start seeing some good performances - some coherence, some attacking patterns of play, some goals. If we continue in the same vein then questions would be asked. We cannot get a new manager a new team before he can be judged. They need to start showing their coaching mettle and get the best out of the resources available to them. It wasn't right when we called everyone "deadwood" and got VG new players who become the "deadwood" for Jose. Neither is it right now. Until we keep doing that, we'll remain in the same shit cycle.
Last edited:
I remember the good ol days where we all used to get along. Now we just fight and argue amongst ourselves, like mummy and daddy used to 
Was this before or after the great flood that never happened?I remember the good ol days where we all used to get along. Now we just fight and argue amongst ourselves, like mummy and daddy used to
You don’t lose that many home games playing that defensive with a squad that won the FA Cup unless you are, everyone is entitled to an opinion, he looks shocked by the standard of the EPL and he’s learning on the job, doesn’t mean he won’t be a great coach, doesn’t mean he might not be a great United coach it’s a fact, his PL record is truly awful 4 wins, 2 draws and 7 defeats that’s 54% loss rate, we’ve sacked managers who have that as a win rate!
You don’t lose that many games against moderate opposition like Brighton, Wolves, Palace, Bournemouth as frequently as he has unless something is wrong!
In continental competitions, yes. In the Eredivisie against clearly weaker teams, no.
I don’t want that to happen, no United fan Does but SJR and INEOS simply don’t care that just see it as a way to finance a rebuild!
During!
Correct at this point we are just keeping someone alive on a life support machine to remember what a great life they had.
I’d say Amorim sees more like we’ve been dead for a good time and the spirit is reincarnated in a little child who needs an awful lot of mentoring to make the boy into a great Man who understands his responsibilities.
You want us to play with 2 at the back? And you think with this goalkeeper and defenders that'll work? Okay then
Well said, before Amorim was hired, this is what people would have wanted, in theory that is anyway. In reality, fans can't handle it. Look at the big fan channels, they are losing their bottle.
To me, I think this is the better option, Amorim understand the task on hand, INEOS understand the task.
Too many times we have papered over cracks with short term solutions, new manager bounce, managers playing to survive and get results to keep them in the job.
This time, we are saying enough, this is the style, play it or you will be found out.