Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

„Rashford would have been perfect in this new system“

Bafffled about the level of criticism he gets… not saying he didnt make mistakes but way over the top for me
Times are tough and our team is awful to watch. There are always scapegoats needed. Rashford looked disinterested and unmotivated and sulky. We heard that he wasn't trying in training. When you're earning 350k a week, you're inviting criticism.
He's a talented lad, no doubt. I hope he finds his mojo at Villa, while realising what a step down they are from United (zero disrespect meant, but they are). Perhaps that's what he needs to rejuvenate his United career.
True enough though, he should be a good fit in Amorims teams.
„Rashford would have been perfect in this new system“

Bafffled about the level of criticism he gets… not saying he didnt make mistakes but way over the top for me
 
Never seen the 3 windows thing until recently TBH. Probably just seen it in different forms.

Ole got my backing because he got performances and results. That's the standard. Achievements.
It’s something Neville had spouted out often especially on Sky Sports.

Amorim has my backing because he looks beyond short term results that will plaster the gaping cuts our squad has. And wants to build something long term. Will it work? Who knows. Depends if he gets get the backing. That Ole and ETH got.

Very similar to Pep. He took over a far superior squad to United, struggled in his first year. Stuck to his principles and the rest is history.
 
ETH had a similar strategy to build a team not playing on the counter. He failed spectactularly. Amorim's first 3 months suggest that he might also not be up to the task. There is very little progress. If he manages us next season I hope we don't buy any systems players.
If we’re not planning on buying any system players then we may as well just sack him now. He is not going to change and the board have brought him in knowing what his approach will be.

This season has been a shit show. It started before Amorim came in but it hasn’t improved (bar a few big wins).

Amorim has a team of misfits that don’t suit his system but they also didn’t suit ETH’s style either. So it’s bad recruitment that required fixing. It’s not Amorims fault that we don’t have a consistent striker in the squad. It’s not Amorims fault that we have a squad full of players on crazy contracts. Or that our FFP situation and cash flow are so badly managed that a club with huge streams of revenue are somehow broke.

It seems crazy for Amorim to continue forcing the formation on this squad, but what’s the alternative? Try it next season? This season will make it clear who will work and who won’t.

If we fire Amorim there will still need to be open heart surgery on the squad, Ragnick called this out years ago. Having a manager ‘get a tune’ out of this squad isn’t progress it’s papering over the cracks.
 
Before Amorim joined Sporting mid season they finished previous seasons

3rd 74 points, 11 off Porto in 2nd
3rd 78 points, 3 off Benfica in 2nd
3rd 70 points, 6 off Porto in 2nd

Amorim managed two titles getting them into the 80 point range and also finished 4th in 2023.

Amorim's 2024 title really was impressive with the arrival of Gyokeres, they finally racked up lots of goals and points. Sporting weren't that far off before Amorim and under him their results in the CL and Europa are quite a mixed bag with defeats against poor to average sides and some hammerings.
This is my point, I think he’s unquestionably one of the most talented young coaches in the game, but he’s completely unproven and inflexible in the EPL.

I watched him coach on Friday and he has no emotion when we scored a goal, conceded or won it late on, playing Dorgu at RWB when we had lo left footer on the other side was bordering self sabotage.

I saw glimpses this season of his it could work for him but he needs 6 key players to make his system work.

Right now he has to get the team set up to be far more compact and work as a 3421 team unit where the whole team moves as a collective to decisive and create multiple passing lines. We can’t get those 5/6 players until the summer so he has to find 2/3 gens from the youth set up.

We need much more creativity from midfield and also from wing backs. Dorgu should play LWB, Amad at RWB and I’d promote Victor Mussa who can play wing back, 9 or 10.

Chido might come through but he’s still developing but Biancheri could be brilliant as an inside L10 or R10.

Jack Moorehouse is a brilliant 19/20 year all rounded Centre Midfielder that has a bit of Grealish about him, very creative, scores goals and carries the ball brilliantly, Amorim needs to start using some of these kids even if it’s only from the bench to give the club a massive lift.
 
Wait, so you post a question as a rhethorical, then get an actual answer that shows the question didn't help your argument as planned, then you proceed to completely and ramdomly move the goalposts?
Kind of embarrassing :lol:

Not the case no, I think Simeone wouldnt work in the Prem to the extent of la liga and I've seen Atletico play a lot since I have family in Madrid who support Atleti over Real.

I used to go in Barcas pomp a lot since I have family who have season tickets there.

I'm aware of the team since the 2000s. Simeone loves workhorses, the team was full of them.

In the Prem it would it work since all teams work as hard as Atleti, in La Liga it works since they favour different playing styles.

I'm not discrediting him as a manager, I'm saying his way works well for Atleti and La Liga but I doubt it would elsewhere.

Simeone at United wouldn't win the league.
 
If we’re not planning on buying any system players then we may as well just sack him now. He is not going to change and the board have brought him in knowing what his approach will be.

This season has been a shit show. It started before Amorim came in but it hasn’t improved (bar a few big wins).

Amorim has a team of misfits that don’t suit his system but they also didn’t suit ETH’s style either. So it’s bad recruitment that required fixing. It’s not Amorims fault that we don’t have a consistent striker in the squad. It’s not Amorims fault that we have a squad full of players on crazy contracts. Or that our FFP situation and cash flow are so badly managed that a club with huge streams of revenue are somehow broke.

It seems crazy for Amorim to continue forcing the formation on this squad, but what’s the alternative? Try it next season? This season will make it clear who will work and who won’t.

If we fire Amorim there will still need to be open heart surgery on the squad, Ragnick called this out years ago. Having a manager ‘get a tune’ out of this squad isn’t progress it’s papering over the cracks.
It can be progress with the players we have now and also accept we need new players in the summer.

Seems to be two camps growing on the Cafe.

Camp 1. Accept the season as a write off and we’ll suffer till we get system players in and have a full pre season to train the new formation.

Camp 2. Expect better results with the players we have no matter we are using a new formation and most have been crap the last few years.

Shouldn’t we all be in Camp 3? Expect the coach and players to adapt to the new formation as fast as possible whilst getting better at it throughout the season and then accept some new players are needed in the summer. Surely doesn’t have to be one or the other.
 
Genuinely don't understand anyone that is not backing Amorim. He's a top class coach saddled with a terrible squad of players. There are only about four or five that I see as being part of the solution long term. For the most part the players at Amorim's disposal are tactically poor, technically poor, decision making very poor. And the thing that I think pisses me off the most... how ponderous they are. Almost every player in our squad needs to take several touches before deciding what to do, if they even get their heads up at all, and by the time they've decided what to do the opposition is in position to snuff out anything threatening.
 
Neville used always be “a manager needs 3 transfer windows before he can be judged” other pundits used to follow that line. But this “3 windows” nonsense was shouted most loudly when Ole was manager.

Unfair criticism. It’s beginning to pile on. Scholes, is suddenly an expert on inverted fullbacks and fully opposes it. Funnily enough not a word against it when Pep did/does it. In general the theme is becoming Amorim needs to abandon his tactics.
Neville would probably still be saying it now. He barely said anything about the manager even towards the bitter end of Ten Hag's run here when the situation was completely desperate.

Likewise, Scholes has always been partial to a bit of a moan. I don't think that's unfair really. Results and performances determine how people will interpret what they're seeing. Amorim isn't having much success with either at the moment.
 
As I said you're taking a throwaway expression verbatim, yes no one literally said that but underlying sentiment I completely stand by.

I'm very happy to hear your views on where you think Amorim is showing enough promise that you think there is solid ground to expect improvement with new players, pre-season etc.

It's not just the results which are the issue for me (which are worse than we'd hope) but his tactical and personnel choices are very questionable/inconsistent. One example being Garnacho he's talked about needing to learn how to play inside per his formation etc, who was then dropped for Leicester. 45 mins in he changes his mind and brings him on, and we proceed to effectively win the game through Garnacho consistently running on the outside. To me it still feels like he's throwing mud and seeing what sticks on basically everything other than the nominal formation shape.

Again, if you make well reasoned points and back them up then it's one thing, but no one wants to engage with people who completely misrepresent other people's posts. That was my point. Something to think about in future perhaps, cheers.
 
Genuinely don't understand anyone that is not backing Amorim. He's a top class coach saddled with a terrible squad of players. There are only about four or five that I see as being part of the solution long term. For the most part the players at Amorim's disposal are tactically poor, technically poor, decision making very poor. And the thing that I think pisses me off the most... how ponderous they are. Almost every player in our squad needs to take several touches before deciding what to do, if they even get their heads up at all, and by the time they've decided what to do the opposition is in position to snuff out anything threatening.
I think the majority are backing him but feel his time is limited if he does not produce results. You can't help but wonder why he has not taken a bit more pragmatic approach since this crop of players obviously are not doing what he wants. His stubbornness could end up costing him his job. It was a big gamble hiring him in the first place. New coach, new system, and a my way or the highway attitude. What could go wrong? The one thing no one can put their finger on is how inconsistent the players have been over several managers. If nothing else, 24/25 will be best known for the season we got rid of some coasters in Sancho, Rashford, and Antony. Let's hope the latter two decide the grass is greener at their new clubs.
 
Genuinely don't understand anyone that is not backing Amorim. He's a top class coach saddled with a terrible squad of players. There are only about four or five that I see as being part of the solution long term. For the most part the players at Amorim's disposal are tactically poor, technically poor, decision making very poor. And the thing that I think pisses me off the most... how ponderous they are. Almost every player in our squad needs to take several touches before deciding what to do, if they even get their heads up at all, and by the time they've decided what to do the opposition is in position to snuff out anything threatening.
He’s getting backed but I think the majority of us are done with 100% backing the manager. We’ve all been burnt with a number of managers since SAF now who have all probably been backed too much. I really hope Amorim does well but I don’t see how he can just have a free hit season and have the summer regardless of results and performances.

End of the day fans are paying to watch week in week out and if it’s complete crap then it can’t go on for too long.
 
It can be progress with the players we have now and also accept we need new players in the summer.

Seems to be two camps growing on the Cafe.

Camp 1. Accept the season as a write off and we’ll suffer till we get system players in and have a full pre season to train the new formation.

Camp 2. Expect better results with the players we have no matter we are using a new formation and most have been crap the last few years.

Shouldn’t we all be in Camp 3? Expect the coach and players to adapt to the new formation as fast as possible whilst getting better at it throughout the season and then accept some new players are needed in the summer. Surely doesn’t have to be one or the other.
I don’t disagree and I do hope we can get playing better for the rest of the season but we need to be realistic. The problem is that for camp 3, a lot of the players just can’t adapt or at least not quick enough. The fact that neither Zirkzee or Hojlund can nail down a starting spot speaks volumes about their current level. They’re young and inconsistent and should never be expected to be the main goal scoring threat for United. But here we are.

We have the likes of Casemiro and Eriksen who are just not able to play consistently at the top level any more. We’ve had to move on players like Rashford, Sancho and Antony; high wages with little impact on the pitch and too many stories off the pitch. We didn’t have a left back for most of the season. Onana has been hot and cold (to put it mildly). Same with Mainoo, Ugarte, Garnacho; some great games, others where you’re left scratching your head.

The league is written off, we can still have a run in one of the cups. But I’m focusing on the summer and next season.
 
It can be progress with the players we have now and also accept we need new players in the summer.

Seems to be two camps growing on the Cafe.

Camp 1. Accept the season as a write off and we’ll suffer till we get system players in and have a full pre season to train the new formation.

Camp 2. Expect better results with the players we have no matter we are using a new formation and most have been crap the last few years.

Shouldn’t we all be in Camp 3? Expect the coach and players to adapt to the new formation as fast as possible whilst getting better at it throughout the season and then accept some new players are needed in the summer. Surely doesn’t have to be one or the other.
I would like to see some progress over the coming months. There is no way we can afford to buy more than 2 top players this summer. And if Amorim can't get a tune out of these players from November to May then I don't think 6 summer weeks will do the trick since preseason is also about fitness.
 
I would like to see some progress over the coming months. There is no way we can afford to buy more than 2 top players this summer. And if Amorim can't get a tune out of these players from November to May then I don't think 6 summer weeks will do the trick since preseason is also about fitness.
Quite an arbitrary punt that.
 
Genuinely don't understand anyone that is not backing Amorim. He's a top class coach saddled with a terrible squad of players. There are only about four or five that I see as being part of the solution long term. For the most part the players at Amorim's disposal are tactically poor, technically poor, decision making very poor. And the thing that I think pisses me off the most... how ponderous they are. Almost every player in our squad needs to take several touches before deciding what to do, if they even get their heads up at all, and by the time they've decided what to do the opposition is in position to snuff out anything threatening.
I’m going to be balanced, I actually was a massive advocate of Ruben and still am however he’s making a lot mistakes.

In the Portuguese league which I have watched quite a lot of his 3421 compact system has multiple ways to hurt you, however he had so much fire power he would sometimes win games 4-2, 5-2 etc, his team give you a chance and the biggest difference is even Palace, wolves, Brighton, Fulham would all be fighting for the Portuguese title every year and have much more pace and physicality than top 6 to Mid table Portuguese team, watch an old Sporting game where’s he more animated on the touch line than he is at old Trafford,
(He’s shell shocked and is showing self doubt!)

When they attack with Trincao or Hjulmund pulling the strings and playing pretty triangles with wing backs like Quenda making out to in runs and in to out runs plus Gykores runs and scans across the line waiting for the ball but the space the two 10’s receive between the lines in the Portuguese league would never be afforded in the EPL.

They had a lot of pace compared to the opposition teams and even if we bring Quenda and Gykores to old Trafford, their pace will just be basic PL nothing like United under Ole with Lingard, Greenwood, Martial and Prime Rashford that season, add Cavani and you had really good attacking options.

This is why RA keeps on going on about pace and physicality, the EPL has shocked him on how good it is, players like De Lap, Dybling and Cunha would not be playing for bottom 4 Teams in Portugal.

He’s used to coaching a highly compact 3421 where the distances are no more than 15/20 yards between the lines and the team attacks as a team unit and uses groups of 3 in triangular pattern to hunt the ball and dominate the ball.

He can’t do this at United because our squad has too many egomaniacs and they won’t don’t believe in the Collective, I think if we started Bayinder, Mazraoui, MDL and Yoro as GK and back three, they could work as a unit.

And the midfield 4 needs to rotate with the two wing backs to progress the ball through the passing lines to create third man runs off the ball, we did have Garnaucho and Amad do this a lot in last 20/25 mins and pull the ball back to the edge of the Penalty box only to have no Attacking runners with the Football iQ to arrive late and score.

Zirkzee and Hojlund can be trained for one to go near and one to hang back, Bruno should play as a 10 or from the bench and Eriksen should be used more as we have zero creativity in midfield right now.

I would play this team and stick to it for 4/5 games in his 3421 system;
Bayinder,
Mazraoui, MDL, L Yoro,
Amad, Ugarte, Eriksen, P Dorku,
Bruno, Garnaucho
Zirkzee (False 9)
 
He’s getting backed but I think the majority of us are done with 100% backing the manager. We’ve all been burnt with a number of managers since SAF now who have all probably been backed too much. I really hope Amorim does well but I don’t see how he can just have a free hit season and have the summer regardless of results and performances.

End of the day fans are paying to watch week in week out and if it’s complete crap then it can’t go on for too long.

Completely agree.

Also, with PSR being what it is, it's hard to see a situation where we completely gut the squad in the summer.

A lot of what we have now we'll have to rely on next season. Do we really expect them to go into next season full of belief if we spend the next few months getting battered?

The idea of writing off the season is fine in abstract but it's hard to see how it works in practice. You need some players to feel like what we are doing is going somewhere. Otherwise any new players you add will quickly get dragged down by the low morale all about them.
 
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I’m going to be balanced, I actually was a massive advocate of Ruben and still am however he’s making a lot mistakes.

In the Portuguese league which I have watched quite a lot of his 3421 compact system has multiple ways to hurt you, however he had so much fire power he would sometimes win games 4-2, 5-2 etc, his team give you a chance and the biggest difference is even Palace, wolves, Brighton, Fulham would all be fighting for the Portuguese title every year and have much more pace and physicality than top 6 to Mid table Portuguese team, watch an old Sporting game where’s he more animated on the touch line than he is at old Trafford,
(He’s shell shocked and is showing self doubt!)

When they attack with Trincao or Hjulmund pulling the strings and playing pretty triangles with wing backs like Quenda making out to in runs and in to out runs plus Gykores runs and scans across the line waiting for the ball but the space the two 10’s receive between the lines in the Portuguese league would never be afforded in the EPL.

They had a lot of pace compared to the opposition teams and even if we bring Quenda and Gykores to old Trafford, their pace will just be basic PL nothing like United under Ole with Lingard, Greenwood, Martial and Prime Rashford that season, add Cavani and you had really good attacking options.

This is why RA keeps on going on about pace and physicality, the EPL has shocked him on how good it is, players like De Lap, Dybling and Cunha would not be playing for bottom 4 Teams in Portugal.

He’s used to coaching a highly compact 3421 where the distances are no more than 15/20 yards between the lines and the team attacks as a team unit and uses groups of 3 in triangular pattern to hunt the ball and dominate the ball.

He can’t do this at United because our squad has too many egomaniacs and they won’t don’t believe in the Collective, I think if we started Bayinder, Mazraoui, MDL and Yoro as GK and back three, they could work as a unit.

And the midfield 4 needs to rotate with the two wing backs to progress the ball through the passing lines to create third man runs off the ball, we did have Garnaucho and Amad do this a lot in last 20/25 mins and pull the ball back to the edge of the Penalty box only to have no Attacking runners with the Football iQ to arrive late and score.

Zirkzee and Hojlund can be trained for one to go near and one to hang back, Bruno should play as a 10 or from the bench and Eriksen should be used more as we have zero creativity in midfield right now.

I would play this team and stick to it for 4/5 games in his 3421 system;
Bayinder,
Mazraoui, MDL, L Yoro,
Amad, Ugarte, Eriksen, P Dorku,
Bruno, Garnaucho
Zirkzee (False 9)
He isn't shell shocked or showing self doubt,what a load of absolute bollocks.
 
Past history and current formations are great to talk about, but when your frontline has this many goals in the league. You ain’t winning shit!

Goals in the Premier League
Garnacho 13
Hojlund 12
Amad 7
Zirkzee 3
 
He’s getting backed but I think the majority of us are done with 100% backing the manager. We’ve all been burnt with a number of managers since SAF now who have all probably been backed too much. I really hope Amorim does well but I don’t see how he can just have a free hit season and have the summer regardless of results and performances.

End of the day fans are paying to watch week in week out and if it’s complete crap then it can’t go on for too long.
Most importantly, we are not in nearly enough control of our own destiny in the league to just say "write it off". We have 29 points and are only 12 points off 18th with 14 games to go. Considering how horrendous we are, I do not understand how people here are so comfortable. Our season is not ours to write off. We have to actually survive first and then you can say write off the season.
 
Most importantly, we are not in nearly enough control of our own destiny in the league to just say "write it off". We have 29 points and are only 12 points off 18th with 14 games to go. Considering how horrendous we are, I do not understand how people here are so comfortable. Our season is not ours to write off. We have to actually survive first and then you can say write off the season.
Because everyone and their nan knows we aren’t getting relegated.
 
At times during the game on Friday I was getting really pissed off with him and the whole team. The football on display was a joke and we were terrible but I just have to remind myself that this team has been like that for a long time. Last season was absolutely shocking! We were scrapping wins against Sheffield United and the like with 30 yard wonder goals and Scott mctominay tap ins. I think we forget how dreadful these players have been for a long time.

I am getting very frustrated but it's so clear to look at the manager that he is too. It's obvious that he is pissed off with what he sees and he's obviously asking then to do different things. On the other hand the whole Dalot/Dorgu thing was absolutely mental. There are so many problems to fix, let's all take a breath and let him work
 
That’s the point Malacia is fullback, while Antony is winger. The idea is Amorim considers wingback as winger. That’s why my original question was ‘’Why didn’t he try Antony as RWB if he considers wingback as winger then?’’
Because with the exception of Amad (who still has played primarily as a #10), he’s almost exclusively fielded fullbacks in those positions. Dalot, Mazraoui, Malacia, and now Dorgu… If you look at our heat maps or field tilts you can see that those wingers are more often occupying fullback positions than attacking positions.

It’s a matter of semantics really— the actual “wingers” in the squad are either now playing as advanced midfielders in the half space (Amad and Garnacho) or have been moved on because Amorim has judged them incapable of playing in those more central positions as #10s (Rashford and Antony).
 
Most importantly, we are not in nearly enough control of our own destiny in the league to just say "write it off". We have 29 points and are only 12 points off 18th with 14 games to go. Considering how horrendous we are, I do not understand how people here are so comfortable. Our season is not ours to write off. We have to actually survive first and then you can say write off the season.
"Only" 12 points clear of relegation.

I'm a pessimist sometimes but there's zero chance we're getting relegated.

We will try to win every game. However when it comes to the latter stages of the Europa it would be wise to start resting players and put our eggs in the Europa basket.
 
Most importantly, we are not in nearly enough control of our own destiny in the league to just say "write it off". We have 29 points and are only 12 points off 18th with 14 games to go. Considering how horrendous we are, I do not understand how people here are so comfortable. Our season is not ours to write off. We have to actually survive first and then you can say write off the season.
Such over dramatic nonsense. Not a hope in hell that we are relegated. We could probably afford to lose every single game remaining and still not get relegated.
 
Ragnick said we need open heart surgery and thats what Amorim is doing. He needs time and patience from us as its not an easy fix. I think the way he dealt with Rashford is admirable and offloading Antony albeit temporarily sends a message to the rest of the squad. Its certainly worked when you look at Garnachos performances. I do agree that he makes some baffling decisions with the line up eg playing Dogru on the right, but his substitutions are the right ones and change games. He needs backing in the summer and then we can judge him more fairly.
 
Such over dramatic nonsense. Not a hope in hell that we are relegated. We could probably afford to lose every single game remaining and still not get relegated.
Agree. The whole vibe feels dishonest. Why are we raising the stakes to exaggerate the significance of meaningless games? We already told him we wanted him here so we could use the season to learn his system. If his job was in danger he would be given a full mandate to win games however possible. Got bad news for anyone who thinks it's the system holding the players back. They were bottom half when we played to their strengths. We've seen it already.
 
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Those who complains about the formation are missing the big picture. It's less about the formation but more the attributes of the players to succeed in the Premier League. United currently lacked players with the required intensity and physicality for PL matches. They also don't have enough players with good enough technique that are comfortable in tight spaces to play a possession based system.
The way I see it, if you want to play progressive style of football in the PL, which I believe what the club is aiming to do, then having players with those attributes will be beneficial regardless what formation they play
 
I remember a quote from Ancelotti regarding Baggio at Parma. Ancelotti said he regrets declining to sign Baggio even though the club agreed it. He thought at the time that Baggio could not fit into his 442 and that was his idea of a formation to achieve the most success.

He says that after 25 years in management he has learned that top players must be kept and the system built around them.

The way I see it is Amorim is inexperienced. Has ever had a setback where plan A does not work? People like Ancelotti have been in the game a long time. They have to adapt to stay at the top.

United made a mistake in Amorim. Its clear to see. He is inexperienced, out of his dept and out of his comfort zone.

SJR should have hired a prem proven manager that can get results for eg Thomas Frank, and once we have a solid team, go for the big names to push us on.
 
I remember a quote from Ancelotti regarding Baggio at Parma. Ancelotti said he regrets declining to sign Baggio even though the club agreed it. He thought at the time that Baggio could not fit into his 442 and that was his idea of a formation to achieve the most success.

He says that after 25 years in management he has learned that top players must be kept and the system built around them.

The way I see it is Amorim is inexperienced. Has ever had a setback where plan A does not work? People like Ancelotti have been in the game a long time. They have to adapt to stay at the top.

United made a mistake in Amorim. Its clear to see. He is inexperienced, out of his dept and out of his comfort zone.

SJR should have hired a prem proven manager that can get results for eg Thomas Frank, and once we have a solid team, go for the big names to push us on.

The prem proven manager argument seems to make sense but I always have to remind myself that neither of Klopp, Guardiola, Slot, Arteta were prem proven.
 
The prem proven manager argument seems to make sense but I always have to remind myself that neither of Klopp, Guardiola, Slot, Arteta were prem proven.
Nobody is saying a non prem manager cant be successful. What Im saying is to de risk whilst we are trying to build.

Klopp and Guardiola were very experienced elite managers. Slot and Arteta were more of a gamble. Arteta has probably underachieved given the amount of money the kronkes have backed him with and Slot has inherited a fantastic ready made team from Klopp. Im not knocking them, im simply saying United should take a less risky approach and get a proven manager.
 
Nobody is saying a non prem manager cant be successful. What Im saying is to de risk whilst we are trying to build.

Klopp and Guardiola were very experienced elite managers. Slot and Arteta were more of a gamble. Arteta has probably underachieved given the amount of money the kronkes have backed him with and Slot has inherited a fantastic ready made team from Klopp. Im not knocking them, im simply saying United should take a less risky approach and get a proven manager.

Slot was somewhat less of a gamble, he was hired because he played a similar style to Klopp and would have continuity. Guardiola had a lot in place for him before he arrived.

Amorim we're basically changing everything under INEOS and any manager coming in would struggle now
 
Nobody is saying a non prem manager cant be successful. What Im saying is to de risk whilst we are trying to build.

Klopp and Guardiola were very experienced elite managers. Slot and Arteta were more of a gamble. Arteta has probably underachieved given the amount of money the kronkes have backed him with and Slot has inherited a fantastic ready made team from Klopp. Im not knocking them, im simply saying United should take a less risky approach and get a proven manager.
I mostly agree with this post but we've been down this road before with LVG and Mourinho and it hasn't really worked out. Amorim's terrible right now but it'll be unfair and a step back to write him off without giving him at least another season, as is the case with any manager we'd have hired.
 
It’s something Neville had spouted out often especially on Sky Sports.

Amorim has my backing because he looks beyond short term results that will plaster the gaping cuts our squad has. And wants to build something long term. Will it work? Who knows. Depends if he gets get the backing. That Ole and ETH got.

Very similar to Pep. He took over a far superior squad to United, struggled in his first year. Stuck to his principles and the rest is history.
Ole started out with a great run and Ten Hag got backed the second summer because he finished third and won a cup.

Amorim is starting out with a better team than Ten Hag had and should be getting better results to deserve to be backed this summer.

Guardiola struggled but didn‘t finish 13th. That is where we are heading at the moment.

If we were in 6th-8th, I‘d be more likely to agree with you. Let‘s remember Ten Hag finished there last season after suffering horrendous injuries, and it was the end of the world.

Ten Hag changed course the first season after two games lost, and had a decent season after that.

Apparently the plan was this season to stick to a new game model, and results were going to be secondary.

I‘m not sure if appointing Amorim was a reset or a continuation of the game model
with some changes.

Ultimately, it is not working and I‘m not sure we should replace most of the team to suit Amorim‘s setup. We need longterm planning, hopefully that didn‘t go out the door.
 
I think hiring Amorim this season was a mistake, I think they should've actually just gone after Tuchel if they were truly interested in reshaping this team to this formation. At least with Tuchel while he can be "boring" he can at least change his formation depending on what he has. I think he would've been the better choice before he took the England job, but by then it was too late. Amorim is getting screwed because of the situation and squad he had when he came in. I just don't know if he can somehow stabilize this team before the end of the season to see some shot at a trophy. I have my doubts, but I think our squad is good enough to win the Europa League. I blame this situation with the front office, they should've just had a caretaker this season so that the next manager could have had a whole summer to figure out their squad. Amorim has a big challenge during the summer, because I'm sure there are some players that deserve a second chance in this system if they had a whole summer to work through it. But now I think Amorim has until the end of next season to show some promise. At our current pace if we're still in a similar situation I don't think those in charge will give him more time. There has to be progress, and if anything I think we're still exactly where we were when he first started.
 
FA Cup is very winnable. Europa also doesn't have many teams who on paper would be considered unbeatable by us.

Amorim may have arrived midseason and players may be struggling with his system, but I fail to see what his "system" is. All he does is employ a 3 atb or 5 atb, but there isn't much tactical nous to it. He is also making selection errors. Constantly selecting Dalot when Dorgu and Amad would be better WBs for instance.

He makes a show of being brutally honest, but refused to accept that he was making selection errors in the previous presser.

He has had enough time to get used to the squad and the league, so he has to win one of the winnable trophies. Otherwise, I'd prefer that he be let go in the summer. A coach who cannot maximize the talent he has at his disposal even a tiny bit to win the FA Cup cannot likely be world class even with 11 world class players.
 
Neville would probably still be saying it now. He barely said anything about the manager even towards the bitter end of Ten Hag's run here when the situation was completely desperate.

Likewise, Scholes has always been partial to a bit of a moan. I don't think that's unfair really. Results and performances determine how people will interpret what they're seeing. Amorim isn't having much success with either at the moment.
Neville was quite critical of ETH until he had that 1-to-1 interview with him for Sky. He completely changed his tune after that and supported him almost to the bitter end. I agree with your general point, of course. Pundits gonna pundit.
 
I remember a quote from Ancelotti regarding Baggio at Parma. Ancelotti said he regrets declining to sign Baggio even though the club agreed it. He thought at the time that Baggio could not fit into his 442 and that was his idea of a formation to achieve the most success.

He says that after 25 years in management he has learned that top players must be kept and the system built around them.

The way I see it is Amorim is inexperienced. Has ever had a setback where plan A does not work? People like Ancelotti have been in the game a long time. They have to adapt to stay at the top.

United made a mistake in Amorim. Its clear to see. He is inexperienced, out of his dept and out of his comfort zone.

SJR should have hired a prem proven manager that can get results for eg Thomas Frank, and once we have a solid team, go for the big names to push us on.
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