Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Kinsella]

I think this is quite clear. One in the mould of Gyokeres

And what mould is that? Which other strikers (past or present) would you compare him to? I’ve only watched him once so I'd like to get a lot more feedback from people who’ve watched him multiple times.

He'll be 27 when next season starts so he's in his prime, but I just fear that people are looking at his stats for Sporting, together with his familiarity with Amorim, and concluding he's the magical missing piece in the jigsaw. His career prior to Sporting is pretty average, so he could just be a relatively late bloomer and the one that got away for Brighton. Isak's career prior to Newcastle didn't exactly scream superstar either, and maybe his compatriot would deliver something similar in the PL.

But it's equally likely, or more likely imo, that people are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 here.

 

[groovyalbert]

The reason this season is dead is down to Ineos chosing to stick with Ten hag and then sack him after a few month. Having to go for a whole new style and setup mid season was always a recipe for disaster.
Especially when we cant spent money either.

In part, but it's also a culmination of terrible transfer windows - including the first under Ineos. Just think how poorly we have wasted our funds in the last couple of summers (and this doesn't include the window of Antony and Casemiro). Between Mount, Yoro, Zirkzee, Onana and Hojlund alone we have spent close to €300m.

Now, there are a few signings there (Yoro and Hojlund) that you could argue are not bad signings and could still develop into very good players. This is true and I actually quite like them both - but were they what we needed at a combined cost of €135m? Absolutely not. Not even close. We could have gotten either of Isak or Solanke for cheaper than Hojlund, and it's pretty clear Yoro is not ready to be starting regularly in the EPL. Can't blame him but - as with players who have been signed for elevated fees in the past - his fee demands a level of readiness.

Spending €50m to go from De Gea to Onana is honestly laughable - and De Gea wasn't even that great by the end - and the less said about Mount and Zirkzee the better imo.

And then you come to Amorim, who needs to effectively rip up the squad to play his unique style, you have to wonder how - without CL football - we are going to have anywhere near the funds available to support him as he needs. My prediction, sadly, is we will give him 50% of the squad he needs, sell of our only exciting assets, get tired of his blaming the squad in a season or two and bin him off leaving an even more disjointed and misplaced squad for the next poor sod who has to manage us.

In short, I think it's going to get a lot worse even from here and with more capable teams fighting relegation we could be seriously dragged into a survival dogfight.

 

[erikcred]

I don't understand, are you saying we won't be playing with midfielders or strikers or central defenders under other manager? Only specialist position are wingbacks, who are capable to play as wide defenders anyway.

I'm just saying that there has to be more to our strategy than "hungry/motivated, athletic, suited to the league".

And about wingbacks as defenders, would've loved to see Victor Moses have an extended run as a wide defender.

 

[Kinsella]

It's my opinion and Rashford did come close to that total a couple years ago. Whilst Amad is developing I still think he could get 12-15 in all competitions. Zirkzee is a great young footballer who is adapting to the league and being mismanaged

Eh?

 

[red_de_pologne]

I'm just saying that there has to be more to our strategy than "hungry/motivated, athletic, suited to the league".

I think that's pretty much it, players who want to improve rather than secure last big pay contract, physically suited to the demands of Premier League, can play in most of currently used tactical setups in the league. What more do you want at this point.

What I mean is it's a myth we'll now buy players who can only play in Amorim's team.

 

[hellhunter]

I think that's pretty much it, players who want to improve rather than secure last big pay contract, physically suited to the demands of Premier League, can play in most of currently used tactical setups in the league. What more do you want at this point.

What I mean is it's a myth we'll now buy players who can only play in Amorim's team.

Another coach might favour technical ability and passing over pure athletes, just to name an example

 

[Pexbo]

I'm not near wanting him out or anything. But I am bloody worried.

I’m not worried about him as a manager at all. I’m worried that we don’t have the resources to give him a clear shot or that he will be another scapegoat and we will take the easy route of replacing him to ease fan anxiety.

He has to have the summer, has to have a good preseason and he has to be allowed to sign Gyokeres if nobody else.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

you continue to use examples of a good manager achieving success with a star squad compared to a previous lesser manager who underachieved with the same star squad.

literally nothing like Amorim struggling to achieve success (in 3 months) with a distinctly shit squad, which was also shit under the previous manager. your argument was ridiculous to start with, let alone now you've doubled down on it.

But it reinforce the logic that ' a bad manager cant achieve success even with a world class squad '

Why are you looking at it from glass full aspect only. Look at it both ways.

@Licha-Vidic are you kidding?
Disaster tirade from you.

- Benitez was dismissed from Real because he lost 4-0 to Barcelona. He left the team as top of their CL group and 4 point off top in La liga.

- Kovac left Bayern after he won league/cup double previous season.

- Conte signed players who were vital to his team and resolved the biggest issues Chelsea team had.

- Moyes inherited aging and unbalanced squad that performes way over their level under SAF.

- Slot inherited a Liverpool squad full of upcoming talent that they bought in previous seasons. Because they buy young players and slowly introduce them into the team. We rely on 19-20 years olds to be consistent starters and play 2 games per week.


Really, we should bring Zidane in. Tomorrow.
After 1 month you'll be calling him shit manager.

Merry dance to distance yourself from logic.

Benitez, Kovac,Moyes are all bad managers. Its proven now. It's a fact now.

Conte took a 10th place Chelsea. 10th place. Signed 3 players only won the league. It didn't take 600m 3 windows, squad surgery to win it.

Again, i tell you humbly, and i will proven correctly, you dont need massive money to play well, leave alone win.

We are doing the same same thing, expecting different results. Only now the darling is Amorim, previously it was ETH.

 

[cafecillos]

Incorrect, Tixi Bergestien joined around 2012, Guardiola joined for the 2016/17 season. That gave him plenty of time to get in the players that suited his system. We should not accuse people of lies without checking the facts.

 

[Ayoba]

Yeh it's not looking great is it?

He's just so hellbent on this bloody formation, playing 5 defenders at home. Like the previous 6 defeats weren't evident enough that it aint working (or is it 7 now? I forget how many times we've lost at home).

 

[Vault Dweller]

I’m not worried about him as a manager at all. I’m worried that we don’t have the resources to give him a clear shot or that he will be another scapegoat and we will take the easy route of replacing him to ease fan anxiety.

He has to have the summer, has to have a good preseason and he has to be allowed to sign Gyokeres if nobody else.

I probably should have elaborated, but yes these are things I am more worried about. That he won't get a fair crack at this, or that he will be hung out to dry by Ineos.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Because they weren't good enough and you think this is some gotcha that means Amorim isn't good enough either but it isn't because you used examples that aren't even remotely similar to ours.

If Amorim had come in and took over a really good squad of players and was getting the results he has been getting he probably would have been sacked already similar to Ashworth.

We are obviously are doing a bit worse than we could be (maybe 8th or 9th instead of 13th) but that has a lot to do with the fact that he's trying to teach something totally new and do his pre season in the middle of the season.

Fact of the matter is these players are crap so we best hope the new formation and way of playing works or else we're f'd.

Name our 5 best players and you could upgrade every one of them with a player from a team outside the European places, that tells you all you need to know.

Time is decider of things. Give it time you will see how it pans out.
Even during ETH i said the same, time will vindicate us who have consistently said you cant win anything in EPL with a midfield 2. It came to pass.

Midfield 2 cant work in EPL. No matter who you are.

Even yesterday Arsenal thrashed City because of midfield superiority. City collapse has been accelerated by dead midfield.

I can bet with my 2 balls, you cant sustain success in EPL with 2 midfielders. Its impossible

 

[groovyalbert]

Yeh it's not looking great is it?

He's just so hellbent on this bloody formation, playing 5 defenders at home. Like the previous 6 defeats weren't evident enough that it aint working (or is it 7 now? I forget how many times we've lost at home).

5 home defeats in 7 league games. It's honestly what you would expect from a side destined for the Championship.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

We’ve gotten over 70 points only 3 times in 11 seasons. It’s lovely when you put the points down like that on paper of games we should be winning, but they don’t tally with reality which is that have a squad full of (some talented) misfits and have had for quite some time.

Misfiring of previous regime shouldn't be a scapegoat now. Then why did we sack Ole then? If now getting 70 points is such a heavy task?

I have written about it up there.

Last season.

Villa won 12 home games, 8 away games.
Spurs won 13 home games, 7 away games.

Does it look lovely on paper? If Villa turned just 2 of their draws/loss they would have 12 home wins and 10 away wins..

Again tell me how lovely it is on paper?
You have been conditioned to accept mediocrity till you believe nothing is achievable.

If you see a team with over 70 points, it has won over 20+ games. Where do you think those 20 games come from?

 

[spiriticon]

I love how people are optimistic that Ruben can fix this by next season.

I only hope that the situation isn't worse by then.

 

[Plant0x84]

The funniest thing is for me, everyone talks about weathering the storm for a summer rebuild. What rebuild? We have no cash, no saleable assets and tight ffp margins. And a feckpile of transfer fee instalments due for trash we already wasted money on.

It should get slightly easier after June because that’s when the current PSR reporting period ends. Unless I have it wrong after that we start with a clean slate for the next period.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He needs to stop playing 5 defenders. Our results are awful with 5 defenders.

Your wing-backs can't be Dalot and Mazraoui. It's just not working.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Needs to play Amad at RWB for a period and then Dorgu at LWB. Enough of Maz and Dalot.

 

[We Are Manchester United]

I am now seriously concerned about the capability of Amorim. Lost more homes game in 3 months than Jose did in two years - not that that's the reason. His inability to adapt to the situation is really frustrating. Clearly we don't have the players for his one and only system - like putting square pegs in round holes. A quality manager/coach would be able to adapt.

Priority must always start with defence - make us hard to beat. We're not hard to beat, we're rubbish.

I'm starting to think Amorim was the wrong choice.

 

[AshRK]

It's my opinion and Rashford did come close to that total a couple years ago. Whilst Amad is developing I still think he could get 12-15 in all competitions. Zirkzee is a great young footballer who is adapting to the league and being mismanaged

If you are talking about all competitions, amad could very well still score 12 to 15 goals in all competition. Zirkzee has proven absolutely nothing in PL and all he has to show is one decent season in serie A. How is he mismanaged when he cannot even manage to control a damn ball.

As for Rashford I will repeat again he has never scored 20 plus goals in PL and you said a manager should get him to score that without any context.

 

[Shinjch]

The more I watch the team the less I understand his determination to play five defenders, especially at home. We are so easy to play against, and especially to defend against.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I'm not near wanting him out or anything. But I am bloody worried.

Everybody should be worried. Not with the 343, more so with the state of the club. For starters, no serious organization goes to great lengths to snatch the CEO of a rival club only to fire him 6 months into the job because the "big man" doesn't like listening to a different opinion in the boardroom.

I've written this when ETH was appointed. No manager can turn this ship around on his own. The game has simply moved on from that model. The day we can start hoping is the day we'll see two buses full of experts arriving at OT. There simply is no other way.

You can tell by the desperation and the frustration on this place. The whole essence of the club can't escape the one-man model. The only difference, after a decade of abject failure, is that the "cult of the manager" is now being opposed by a strong "take all decisions away from him" sentiment. But it all revolves around the idea of the man sitting at the edge of the bench being "the one" or not.

Everyone is at each other's throats after every bad result. Meanwhile, within ten years, we have gone from DDG/Ferdinand/Vidic/Evra/Rafael to Onana/Maguire/Martinez/Dalot/Mazraui from Carrick/Giggs (Scholes) to Ugarte and whoever plays alongside him, from Nani/Young (Valencia) to depending on two kids to come up with the goods, and from RvP/Rooney to Bruno hitting long balls in-behind to two invisible men up front. We have spent a fortune to downgrade in every way imaginable, and now the team is a mess and the confidence is in the gutters.

Last season, according to the Caf, the problem was the 3-1 shape in the build-up and the FBs being positioned high on the pitch. Now, the problem is too many men sitting deep in the build-up. Which one is it, then? We can't have our cake and eat it.

When you're frothing at the mouth because the manager doesn't make one of the most expensive squads out there play like Allardyce's Bolton to "get the best out of them", the war is already lost. A new beginning is needed, a restart that has to occur behind the scenes first and foremost.

 

[Jezpeza]

It should get slightly easier after June because that’s when the current PSR reporting period ends. Unless I have it wrong after that we start with a clean slate for the next period.

Its a 3 year rolling period. INEOS have been working hard to cut the loss for the next period that goes on it but we are still stuck with 2 pretty bad years on it - its not a clean slate. But I believe we have a lot - like £140m - of transfer fee instalments already due in the next period that we know about which will already be a huge expenditure to put down.

We also dont have any cash at the moment - being able to spend doesn't mean we can, without borrowing money which ups the debt interest.

Theres also a misconception about amortisation - I read an article by a football finance expert where he said that you can amortise a transfer across many years using asset value and depreciation but most transfer fees are paid in instalments to other clubs over 18 to 24 months. Like if you sign a player on a 6 year contract the club you sign him from are not waiting 6 years for the final cash instalment to be transferred.

 

[Rista]

I badly want him to succeed, I believe he's doing a lot of things right but I don't think he'll get the time he needs. Ten Hag built a dogshit side that set us back for years and years to come but Ruben still needs to be doing better. It's a tough situation because if we're changing the way we play from the ground up these things are to be expected but on the other hand we can't be losing this many games. If it continues, rightly or wrongly, he will be sacked. I feel for him because he was given a bad squad and we have no money to spend. Getting us back to the top seems like an impossible task now.

 

[Jeffthered]

I did not see the game, or even highlights. But I wasn't suprised about the result, or what I learn was a poor performance. But for the first time, I did (do) begin to worry a bit about Amorim. If he, really, thinks playing Mainoo as a forward was going to work, then he has little idea about the competitive nature of the Premier League. Kobie Mainoo is fast losing his way, getting caught up in hype, whilst not getting his head down and getting to play, and focus on being a good footballer.

However, I don't think there is a manager who could get more out of those players. The squad, heart and spirit of the club has changed and it hurts to watch. You can feel it. We are a very fragile football club.

So yes, a bit of a worry. But, as many of us know, the blame lies in what has been a wretched executive culture at Man Utd, agreeing to crazy transfers of average and quite poor players. So many players we have would struggle to stand out in the Championship, and that is no exaggeration.

We need to get rid of a LOT of players. Even some of those recently brought in as they will not get much better and will do nothing for the club moving forwards.

 

[stevoc]

For the people that have unwaivering faith in him, and are happy to ride it out - how do we make sure investing heavily in his vision isn't a repeat of the ETH spending?

I want to believe in him, but surely we need to avoid a repeat of that at any cost

We can't and we shouldn't. The club should be leading recruitment and squad building.

 

[littlepeasoup]

Misfiring of previous regime shouldn't be a scapegoat now. Then why did we sack Ole then? If now getting 70 points is such a heavy task?

I have written about it up there.

Last season.

Villa won 12 home games, 8 away games.
Spurs won 13 home games, 7 away games.

Does it look lovely on paper? If Villa turned just 2 of their draws/loss they would have 12 home wins and 10 away wins..

Again tell me how lovely it is on paper?
You have been conditioned to accept mediocrity till you believe nothing is achievable.

If you see a team with over 70 points, it has won over 20+ games. Where do you think those 20 games come from?

I’m sorry. I really can’t take unhinged rants like this seriously.

 

[stevoc]

The clue is in how he was announced - a first team coach. Let our scouting and footballing department decide transfers, not him.

Seems we're targeting the right type of players regardless of the manager, younger = more hungry/motivated, athletic, suited to the league.

Not a huge amount of difference in who the manager is in 1-3 years, we still need to rebuild.

We've just virtually completed a very expensive rebuild between 2022-2024. We can't afford another one. And we shouldn't embark upon one every time we get a new manager.

The majority of this squad can't be thrown on the scrap heap just because the last and current manager can't get a tune out of them.

 

[red_de_pologne]

We've just virtually completed a very expensive rebuild between 2022-2024. We can't afford another one. And we shouldn't embark upon one every time we get a new manager.

The majority of this squad can't be thrown on the scrap heap just because the last and current manager can't get a tune out of them.

No, we added players on top of a pile of overpaid, not good enough or not fit enough players. The rebuild is removing surplus to requirements, and adding more of what's needed. There's a group of players that should be good enough going forward, but simply not enough of them yet.

 

[Dec9003]

I do think if given time things will get better under Amorim. I also think his system doesn’t suit United, at a club like ours I think you have to play a brand of football that is more exciting and dare I say attacking. Having 5 defenders on the pitch with a holding midfield is quite frankly boring.
All the times I’ve been to the ground under Amorim it’s been a similar story with the supporters growing frustrated by our negative slow style of play, it’s just a mismatch at the moment.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Are they adapting to the new style though? What improvements are we seeing?

Seems to me that Amorim has got some fans believing pain = gain. Sorry but sometimes pain is just pain and all it is preparing you for is more pain.

I don't think there is anybody that believes pain = gain. It's more that given the wider context gain is not possible without pain. You have seemingly made your mind up after 3 months - I'd prefer to keep an open mind after such a short period, in the middle of a season, with no new blood in the team (yet), and a new formation for the existing players to get used to.

Amorim has now been working with the full squad since November playing multiple games a week. In most of our preseasons the first choice 11 gets how many 60-90 minute run outs together? Maybe one?

Isn't that the whole point though? When you are playing multiple times a week, and each game requires a recuperation period, then you don't have much time to actually train?

Is it that difficult to find a manager that just plays a normal functioning 4231/433/442 etc Why do we keep going for managers that want to reinvent the wheel?

Is that statement even true? The argument is usually that we haven't had any really young managers with modern and progressive ideas about how the game is played?

You are conflating two issues here. Our age structure is high because the Glazers and Woodward mismanaged the club. We overpay and don't get value for money.

That doesn't change the fact that Ineos are also mismanaging the club so far. Seeing as they seem to have no plan in place or vision for the team long term. They decided Ten Hag was their man and bought more players for his 4231, then sacked him and all of a sudden in November their vision for Manchester United was to play without wingers and switch mid-season to a 343.



They are winging it.

They do seem to be concentrating on bringing in some top quality youngsters in the U18 and U21 brackets - that to me suggests some kind of forward thinking, and much more sustainable in the long run than our previous transfer strategy of just throwing money at it.

Is that what this is?

Is it not?

Another coach might favour technical ability and passing over pure athletes, just to name an example

Are the two things mutually exclusive?

 

[johndurham49]

I badly want him to succeed, I believe he's doing a lot of things right but I don't think he'll get the time he needs. Ten Hag built a dogshit side that set us back for years and years to come but Ruben still needs to be doing better. It's a tough situation because if we're changing the way we play from the ground up these things are to be expected but on the other hand we can't be losing this many games. If it continues, rightly or wrongly, he will be sacked. I feel for him because he was given a bad squad and we have no money to spend. Getting us back to the top seems like an impossible task now.

Absolutely agree with all that you say mate. Trouble is now he's inherited a poor side. He badly wants to succeed and is doing everything he can but it won't take overnight, nor will it take a few months. There needs to be upheaval in some of the players, there needs to be at least a handful brought in (which only seems to be the 2 we have just signed in this window now) and then they will need time to adapt to Ruben's style. I have 100% faith in him and feel that given time he will succeed but the trouble is these days unless you start improving within a very limited timescale then you risk being kicked out. Swapping managers/coaches each time you don't win or have a decent run is just going to cause chaos and players who are just starting to adapt have to then start over again with a new style again! I don't believe we will go down. I don't believe we will finish top 10 either which I know isn't great for a club like ours but a lot of the crap isn't Ruben's fault. He is experimenting and yes we aren't getting performances we'd want to see (I still wish for a keeper other than Onana). Some games it works and others it doesn't but until we get in the players he needs and that suit his style.... the trouble with that, then, becomes the question of 'how long will it take him?' Let's hope it's sonner rather than later.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

We face any half decent team in the Europa and we're out.

We finished 3rd in the league table, clearly we are better than nearly every team in the Europa.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

So, this is another manager that need 3 years and 600M to sign all his own players? Deja Vu for the last decade?

 

[RedSky]

If you think Zirkzee and Hojlund are bad CFs then how exactly do you think Amorim is able to get any kind of consistency when we have no attacking threat. I understand people are getting frustrated at our form but I don't understand how people think we're suddenly going to turn into a decent team when our only genuine goal threats is Bruno and Diallo. We have no options to bring on off the bench either.

We just have to accept that until we get to a transfer window where we can bring in some new forwards then we're going to be a bit shit.

We're easy to play against because teams know how ineffective we are going forward. This allows teams to have a real go at us as they aren't scared of us damaging them.

Now you can blame the formation all you like but that isn't going to change our forwards and suddenly make them decent.

 

[pcaming]

If you think Zirkzee and Hojlund are bad CFs then how exactly do you think Amorim is able to get any kind of consistency when we have no attacking threat. I understand people are getting frustrated at our form but I don't understand how people think we're suddenly going to turn into a decent team when our only genuine goal threats is Bruno and Diallo. We have no options to bring on off the bench either.

We just have to accept that until we get to a transfer window where we can bring in some new forwards then we're going to be a bit shit.

We're easy to play against because teams know how ineffective we are going forward. This allows teams to have a real go at us as they aren't scared of us damaging them.

Now you can blame the formation all you like but that isn't going to change our forwards and suddenly make them decent.

we could at least be good defensively...

 

[We Are Manchester United]

We finished 3rd in the league table, clearly we are better than nearly every team in the Europa.

Europa League is the new Europa Conference League - it's lost credibility now teams are not dropping into it from Champions League. It's worse than the League Cup and slightly better than the actualy Conference League. Not really a trophy this club should be wildly celebrating IF we even win it. Which we won't.

 

[astracrazy]

The season is done guys. Just focus on next season.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[macheda14]

A lot of Sporting fans prepared us for this. He’s incredibly stubborn with his style and we’ll have some awful awful performances until it sticks. The quality of our league and the size of the task is bigger but things will get slightly better when the squad even remotely resembles being able to take on the task. Namely when we can field more attacking wing backs and a striker who wants to take one singular shot.

 

[astracrazy]

We finished 3rd in the league table, clearly we are better than nearly every team in the Europa.

How on earth did you get to that conclusion? Where you finish in a league table of 36 teams after playing 8 games bears no relevance on how good you are compared to everyone else. That's like saying Arsenal must be better than nearly every team in the Champions League.

If we were in 3rd place after 8 games in the Prem would you think we are better than nearly every other team too?