Do you mean you would want Yoro at wingback? Probably just the way this post is worded. I would personally prefer Amad at RWB at home. We had Hojlund, Zirkzee on the bench. Just adding a more attacking minded player!
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
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Do you mean you would want Yoro at wingback? Probably just the way this post is worded. I would personally prefer Amad at RWB at home. We had Hojlund, Zirkzee on the bench. Just adding a more attacking minded player!
No, just Yoro at RCB and Mazraoui at RWB gave me flashbacks of same recent game (it was probably Southampton). Yoro at wingback would be a disaster
I agree about Amad at RWB.This club is rotten to the core. Currently it seems to me that this season is the worst in multiple decades and I will accept it, because I see progress in overhauling the culture and mentality. It doesn't change all of a sudden, it takes time as it's so deeply in everyone. Yes, Conte would have got more out of the team, but.... in short-term. We want to compete throughout the seasons, not one season only.
The situation with player power in United is huge and Amorim is the first one who has the trust of SAF, which is the way it actually should be. No player is bigger than the club. And there are still players who seem to think like so, even after Rashford's departure.
Summer will be ruthless. At least I hope so. Message must be sent and backed by the board that this era of overpaid underperforming players are over.
And, and ofcourse our position in the league shows a lot, but Premier League average has become much much stronger as you cannot expect any simple games. It's currently the most competitive league in the world as it has the most money and we must accept it. Deeper squads, luck, higher average quality and small competitive edges differ between top 4 and mid-table teams.
The situation with player power in United is huge and Amorim is the first one who has the trust of SAF, which is the way it actually should be. No player is bigger than the club. And there are still players who seem to think like so, even after Rashford's departure.
Summer will be ruthless. At least I hope so. Message must be sent and backed by the board that this era of overpaid underperforming players are over.
And, and ofcourse our position in the league shows a lot, but Premier League average has become much much stronger as you cannot expect any simple games. It's currently the most competitive league in the world as it has the most money and we must accept it. Deeper squads, luck, higher average quality and small competitive edges differ between top 4 and mid-table teams.
Except the lower we finish in the league the less money we get and the lower the quality of player we will be able to recruit in the summer.
Some people seem to simultaneously hold the view that we are going to finish about 15th and that we are going to be able to attract and pay for quality new players for Amorim in the summer. You can have one of those things but not both.
You are conflating two issues here. Our age structure is high because the Glazers and Woodward mismanaged the club. We overpay and don't get value for money.
That doesn't change the fact that Ineos are also mismanaging the club so far. Seeing as they seem to have no plan in place or vision for the team long term. They decided Ten Hag was their man and bought more players for his 4231, then sacked him and all of a sudden in November their vision for Manchester United was to play without wingers and switch mid-season to a 343.
They are winging it.
We are right to allow Amorim to gut the squad, and start again.
Whether Amorim is the right man for the job or not, this needed to happen. I do rate Amorim but I think he needs the Europa or FA Cup to get a bit of support. We are going to finish 15th or so in the league.
Whether Amorim is the right man for the job or not, this needed to happen. I do rate Amorim but I think he needs the Europa or FA Cup to get a bit of support. We are going to finish 15th or so in the league.
This is going to be a painful season. Probably finish around 12th. The cups is where the focus will have to be, especially the Europa.
I don't have issues with the system because no system works at this club it seems.
I don't have issues with the system because no system works at this club it seems.
It's my opinion and Rashford did come close to that total a couple years ago. Whilst Amad is developing I still think he could get 12-15 in all competitions. Zirkzee is a great young footballer who is adapting to the league and being mismanaged
We've struggled in quite a few games this season but I've noticed that we struggle a lot more against teams that set up in a similar system to us, having 3/5 atb. Suddenly it becomes man to man and we have so few players who can take out players on their own and that hurts us so bad.
Quite possibly but that seems an ill judged approach seeing as we just spent £600m+ assembling this squad and leaving the club skint in the process. Forcing unpopular decisions like raising ticket prices etc.
For me it doesn't look like anything has changed from the Glazers/Woodard there's still no long term plan. We've just reverted back to hiring yet another coach with a different formation/system than his predecessor. We're giving him the keys to the kingdom, launching into yet another rebuild and allowing them to sign/sell who they like.
Yet we were told Ineos would be implementing a proper structure, they would be leading recruitment and dictating style, formation etc. It doesn't look that way at all to me, let's be honest we're only switching to 343 because Amorim was the best coach available when they finally realized they had to sack Ten Hag.
No way we win either of those with our current attack
Madness.
Didn't we just do that over the last 2 years to the cost of £600m?
We shouldn't be letting any manager dictate transfers because they might make a complete clusterfeck of it and need sacking leaving a mess for the next guy. Hopefully the club have finally learned something from the Ten Hag era, though I doubt it.
What does this mean? Should we stop watching our games? Maybe a ban on posting on this forum? Fans should stop going to OT?
Really not convinced this is headed anywhere. His persistence playing Mazraoui at wing back is infuriating as it nullifies any threat we may otherwise have down the flanks and turns is into a hopelessly ultra defensive team, hopefully Dorgu coming in will change that.
I don’t get his consistently negative wing back choices.
I think he’s being set up to fail squad and signings wise, but to continually make the same selection errors is totally on him.
I think he’s being set up to fail squad and signings wise, but to continually make the same selection errors is totally on him.
There's been some, but not enough in the right areas....... I'm going to put it down to Amorim underestimating the league
For the people that have unwaivering faith in him, and are happy to ride it out - how do we make sure investing heavily in his vision isn't a repeat of the ETH spending?
I want to believe in him, but surely we need to avoid a repeat of that at any cost
I want to believe in him, but surely we need to avoid a repeat of that at any cost
Amorim needs to be braver with his selection and - say it quietly - set up.
If any other manager since SAF set up with 7 defensive players and no striker v Palace at home they'd be rightly criticized, regardless of the players we have available.
Say they give him the attacking wingback he so needs to play basic football at home, say the oppo teams figure out the way to counter wingbacks, will we start losing to every bottom 10 teams again? Seems to me the whole theme is wingbacks? I mean whatever happen to management where you bring the best out of available resources or at least keep it respectable?
Is that what this is?
Next season is linked to how this one is finishing.
That’s a very reasonable question that’s been asked multiple times and yet to be properly answered.
Honestly I fear this is shaping up to be a bigger car crash than ETH. A system that requires a host of specialist players and unless perfectly executed leaves us wide open. Brighton picked the system apart recently and Palace did it again. Its silly to highlight individual mistakes when the system leaves us overrun in midfield and leaves defenders unsure whether to push up or drop. Then he starts with no attackers. Its baffling stuff. I think the players at this point are even more confused. And we now sign wing backs who are neither great defenders or great attackers, plus playing 3CBs and at least one defensive CDM. Its just awful, like Mou at his worst.
The reason this season is dead is down to Ineos chosing to stick with Ten hag and then sack him after a few month. Having to go for a whole new style and setup mid season was always a recipe for disaster.
Especially when we cant spent money either.
Especially when we cant spent money either.
Here's where I'm at.
We need to avoid relegation. League position doesn't matter as much this season, However I do have a concern about getting used to losing this many games.
I think Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho and Zirkzee aren't very suited to Amorim's system. The sooner we realise this, the sooner we can make decisions whether we want to back the players or the manager.
Our best chance for Europe next season is objectively the Europa league, giving the level of opposition. We need to make sure we're taking full advantage of it.
Any signing that hurt our transfer plans for the summer, needs to be avoided. We cannot afford anymore mistakes on the market.
We have holes at Striker, RWB, DM and LAM. Gyokeres, Quenda, Ederson and possibly Tel (less convinced about him) would go a long was towards getting us ready for next season.
We need to avoid relegation. League position doesn't matter as much this season, However I do have a concern about getting used to losing this many games.
I think Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho and Zirkzee aren't very suited to Amorim's system. The sooner we realise this, the sooner we can make decisions whether we want to back the players or the manager.
Our best chance for Europe next season is objectively the Europa league, giving the level of opposition. We need to make sure we're taking full advantage of it.
Any signing that hurt our transfer plans for the summer, needs to be avoided. We cannot afford anymore mistakes on the market.
We have holes at Striker, RWB, DM and LAM. Gyokeres, Quenda, Ederson and possibly Tel (less convinced about him) would go a long was towards getting us ready for next season.
The clue is in how he was announced - a first team coach. Let our scouting and footballing department decide transfers, not him.
Seems we're targeting the right type of players regardless of the manager, younger = more hungry/motivated, athletic, suited to the league.
Not a huge amount of difference in who the manager is in 1-3 years, we still need to rebuild.
First thing is to avoid big purchases on players outside the Premier League, and above a certain age. At this point, we’re looking for young players to develop with Amorim, rather than the finished article. It’ll mean growing pains on the way, but ultimately should have the club in a better financial position over the next few years. I expect net transfer expenditure to be similar, but we will have players who are easier to move on if they fail.
They seem to be looking at flexible players who can play in multiple positions. Look at the line up yesterday and it was very hard to tell who would be lining up where. No surprise that Dorgu has played at right and left back, as well as right wing. He’s also very athletic which is something we seemed to have ignored for years.
Tying those things together should mean that we end up with a squad suitable for most modern managers, but who are easy to move on if not. My main concern is we could end up filling the squad with a load of average players and truly become mid table dross.
I thought we are past the point of actually worrying about this? Or are people still pretending there's a relegation battle we are somehow involved in?
We face any half decent team in the Europa and we're out.
Are you normal really?
Who is talking about this season? I am talking about full season.
Last season Villa and Spurs had 20 wins. 20 wins. 68 points max.
For you to get 70+ points a season you need over 21-22 wins in a season. Its a fact.
If Amorim can not get a 22 win in a season then,whqt are we doing going through all this 'suffering'. The easiest way to achieve the 22 wins mark is what i wrote there above.
Last season, City and Arsenal won 28 games. How do you think they got 28 wins? By being beaten anyhow? They won those 28 games. Extrapolate it, 15 homes games, 13 away wins is a fair range.
Edit..
I have looked it up.
Last season 2023-2024
Arsenal won 15 home games, 13 away games.
Liverpool won 15 home games, 9 away games.
Spurs won 13 home games, 7 away games.
Villa won 12 home games, 8 away games.
So if Villa just turned 2 of their AWAY losses/draws into wins they would have achieved what i said up there.
So 12 homes wins and 10 away wins is extremely achievable. Let nobody cheat you.
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Unless you would be delighted with 11 new goalies who are all hungry/motivated, athletic, suited to the league, their actually footballing ability or position is also kind of relevant.
And that seems to be the big problem here. Amorim has a very specific set of requirements and we would again be signing players just for him.
I'm not near wanting him out or anything. But I am bloody worried.
I don't understand, are you saying we won't be playing with midfielders or strikers or central defenders under other manager? Only specialist position are wingbacks, who are capable to play as wide defenders anyway.
Bit worrying that we need to make such big changes to accommodate a new playing style and formation - yet after 1 window we've given him ONE player.
The lack of outgoings is a bit of a worry too - it's clearly evident certain members of the squad aren't going to feature much.
I think we've learnt by now that certain players offer little yet Amorin has no options but to play them.
That being said, Amorin isn't impressing me with certain things.
Maz just cannot play Wing Back - he's played there more often than not and it's a major weak point for me. Dalot is also proving to be a very consistent starter yet his performances have been shocking. At either flank - Dalot is not upto it.
The constant rotation of the three CB's. It's mental > it's a different three every single game. For me, your CB's should be the constant in the team. I get we are pretty much the most injury prone team in the league but we cannot keep fielding a different variation of CB's every game.
Summer window needs to be a hell of a lot better than this one
The lack of outgoings is a bit of a worry too - it's clearly evident certain members of the squad aren't going to feature much.
I think we've learnt by now that certain players offer little yet Amorin has no options but to play them.
That being said, Amorin isn't impressing me with certain things.
Maz just cannot play Wing Back - he's played there more often than not and it's a major weak point for me. Dalot is also proving to be a very consistent starter yet his performances have been shocking. At either flank - Dalot is not upto it.
The constant rotation of the three CB's. It's mental > it's a different three every single game. For me, your CB's should be the constant in the team. I get we are pretty much the most injury prone team in the league but we cannot keep fielding a different variation of CB's every game.
Summer window needs to be a hell of a lot better than this one
Too much of an overreaction. Don't get this obsession with him needing "special" players. Starting with wingbacks, they are just attacking full backs. All the names we've been linked with have played in back 4s, Dorgu included. All the names or positions that we've been linked with, will be needed by any manager that comes in.
Has he been really conservative with his approach. Yes he has, and I don't get why given how we look so much better when he uses the system the way he's done so before, but there must be some reasons for it. I do believe we're going in the right direction and when it works it looks really good. I honestly don't get all this doom mongering going on.
And what mould is that? Which other strikers (past or present) would you compare him to? I’ve only watched him once so I'd like to get a lot more feedback from people who’ve watched him multiple times.
He'll be 27 when next season starts so he's in his prime, but I just fear that people are looking at his stats for Sporting, together with his familiarity with Amorim, and concluding he's the magical missing piece in the jigsaw. His career prior to Sporting is pretty average, so he could just be a relatively late bloomer and the one that got away for Brighton. Isak's career prior to Newcastle didn't exactly scream superstar either, and maybe his compatriot would deliver something similar in the PL.
But it's equally likely, or more likely imo, that people are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 here.
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In part, but it's also a culmination of terrible transfer windows - including the first under Ineos. Just think how poorly we have wasted our funds in the last couple of summers (and this doesn't include the window of Antony and Casemiro). Between Mount, Yoro, Zirkzee, Onana and Hojlund alone we have spent close to €300m.
Now, there are a few signings there (Yoro and Hojlund) that you could argue are not bad signings and could still develop into very good players. This is true and I actually quite like them both - but were they what we needed at a combined cost of €135m? Absolutely not. Not even close. We could have gotten either of Isak or Solanke for cheaper than Hojlund, and it's pretty clear Yoro is not ready to be starting regularly in the EPL. Can't blame him but - as with players who have been signed for elevated fees in the past - his fee demands a level of readiness.
Spending €50m to go from De Gea to Onana is honestly laughable - and De Gea wasn't even that great by the end - and the less said about Mount and Zirkzee the better imo.
And then you come to Amorim, who needs to effectively rip up the squad to play his unique style, you have to wonder how - without CL football - we are going to have anywhere near the funds available to support him as he needs. My prediction, sadly, is we will give him 50% of the squad he needs, sell of our only exciting assets, get tired of his blaming the squad in a season or two and bin him off leaving an even more disjointed and misplaced squad for the next poor sod who has to manage us.
In short, I think it's going to get a lot worse even from here and with more capable teams fighting relegation we could be seriously dragged into a survival dogfight.
I'm just saying that there has to be more to our strategy than "hungry/motivated, athletic, suited to the league".
And about wingbacks as defenders, would've loved to see Victor Moses have an extended run as a wide defender.
I think that's pretty much it, players who want to improve rather than secure last big pay contract, physically suited to the demands of Premier League, can play in most of currently used tactical setups in the league. What more do you want at this point.
What I mean is it's a myth we'll now buy players who can only play in Amorim's team.