Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[#07]

Because nothing i had said is a rant. Its in black and white.

Spurs and Villa won as shown.
Dispute the facts? You can't because its not a lie.

People want to hear something to conform with their assumptions.

If Amorim can't win 12-13 home games then he has no business being a United manager.

Amorim has lost more Home games in 3 months than What Mourinho and Ole lost in 2 years. How people can be blind to this, is incredible.

In fairness, Amorim's very charismatic and can sell a vision that makes people believe. That is a skill of being a top level coach.

However, its also the case that people need to believe it will better to avoid even harsher disappointment. Its not a surprise that people are taking comfort in things that explain away our situation and give cause for optimism.

We've seen this before many, many times in the past decade or so. I myself have been on this boom and bust cycle with pretty much every United coach since Fergie. If only we sign X, if only we sell Y, Z isn't good enough. Its natural for people to reach in these circumstances.

Personally, I made the decsion that Ten Hag was the last guy I would invest in like that. However, I am not surprised at others continuing to put faith in the manager and trying to see something that may or may not be there in reality.

I've basically come to the point where I am not going to put 100 per cent into any United coach. Its not all their fault when things go wrong, nor are they the Messiah when things go right. Week by week I will judge what I see in front of me and try and keep clear eyed about it all.

There have been moments where Amorim makes you think: 'Maybe just maybe?' However, on the whole, its hard to argue with you. Under him we're on the slide. We're a soft target for everyone and there's nothing to really make you feel it will suddenly change. As much as we all hope it does.

It just looks a bad fit, this coach, this squad, this set of financial constraints. Lets keep hoping we're wrong but its harder and harder to believe we're not.

 

[El Jefe]

The thing about the PL is about half, possibly even two thirds of the managers are brilliant. Very good tactically all with bright and fresh ideas on how to navigate the PL. The gap in quality of squads in the top 8-10 is also smaller than it’s been since the early 90s.

Ruben came here as a ‘genius’ with a fool proof system. What he’s realising is proving that genius here is much tougher here because of the competition. Yesterday Glasner played the same formation and had his team looking better and that’s with Eze on the bench. Amorim is being tested in ways he hasn’t seen in his career.

Because of this he really needs to check his own ego. His old tricks that worked in Portugal are now irrelevant. He needs to be prepared to do things he’s never done before. It’s nice having conviction in your methods but part of being a great manager is being adaptable and accepting your ways are not always right. Fergie fought for years sticking with a midfield two in Europe before accepting he needed to try new things. As a manager you can never believe you are smarter than the field if the results don’t show it.

 

[RedSky]

we could at least be good defensively...

I agree, this is my concern right now. But it's also linked to the bad attack, they're both connected. If teams know you can't hurt them, they'll push more players forward and be more adventurous.

Look at it from an opponents point of view right now. We're utterly toothless, so do you setup to contain us and try and nick something on the break. Or do you have a real go knowing that we struggle to score more than a goal a game? Teams come to Old Trafford looking to win these days rather than attempt to snatch a point.

I genuinely feel sorry for Amorim, like I would with any Manager taking us on right now. We drastically need some changes in our forward line and that's been clear as day once Mason was rightly removed. We just don't have any natural goal scorers in the squad.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

He's gone down in my estimation due to the Mainoo at 9 experiment.

Yeah it's funny how people will say 'it's entirely the players' fault' when he played 5 defenders and a midfielder up front as we failed to score at home.

If any manager in the world makes that call and it backfires, serious questions will be asked. He is not immune from that. Questions of whether the team is being set up to its full potential with the resources that they have.

 

[humdinger]

I really like Ruben and fully support him. Happy to give the formation some time.

However, I don’t understand why he hasn’t really explored using some of our existing hard working wingers - Garnacho and Antony - more at wing back. Especially given Amad’s success there, and how poor Mazraoui and Dalot have been there. We need more attacking players in the team to be more of a goal threat.

I also think Bayindir warrants some more games. Onana is too unreliable.

 

[stepic]

He's gone down in my estimation due to the Mainoo at 9 experiment.

I don’t blame him for trying something different, it’s not like he’s not given both Hojlund and Zirkzee plenty of opportunities. Our forwards are easily the worst we’ve had in all of our living memory. That isn’t his fault.

 

[M Bison]

I really like Ruben and fully support him. Happy to give the formation some time.

However, I don’t understand why he hasn’t really explored using some of our existing hard working wingers - Garnacho and Antony - more at wing back. Especially given Amad’s success there, and how poor Mazraoui and Dalot have been there. We need more attacking players in the team to be more of a goal threat.

I also think Bayindir warrants some more games. Onana is too unreliable.

Ignoring the player names, this is my issue.

I was under the impression Ruben was implementing a 343 system where the wide centre backs would cover for us not having full backs and allow the wide midfielders to push on. Its not that at all, we're playing 5 at the back so we always have spare men in defence but that puts an unbelievable amount of pressure and ground for the the 2 in CM to cover. With the 5 at the back and no width in the attacking third, the CM's have very few options which is why we are constantly going back and recycling the ball through the centre halves. I get having the 5 away at the likes of Anfield, it makes sense that those playing wide would be pushed back, but at home to Palace, surely we can afford to be a bit more adventurous and have the wide players pushing on more, with the centre halves pushing up too.

Nothing worse than people on football forums giving tactical advice so im sure Ruben has a better understanding than me watching at home(!), but it definitely does look very different to how it was positioned when he came in!

 

[Kyōshi]

I feel for the guy. The results paint him as the one of the worst Manchester United Manager in recent memory. INEOS have definitely not set up him to succeed, neither in terms of player profiles available or the timing of his hiring. I don't get the feeling that INEOS are very clear in terms of what they are trying to achieve, so its crucial that Ruben starts getting this team to get results consistently. If the results continue in this vein till the end of the season, I don't think INEOS will hesitate to move on from him. They seem quite blunt in that aspect. Tbh, I don't think anyone would have imagined us to be to this poor.

There are some things that he's got stop asap like starting both Dalot and Mazraoui as wingbacks in the same game. I can't remember a single game where they both started in the WB positions and the team played well. There's been a lot of positives when Amad has started as at RWB so probably just continue with that. One thing I can't figure out is how are we supposed to score goals with so few goal scorers. With Rashford out, Bruno is virtually our only player with a proven record of consistent goalscoring. There's a lot of tough problems to which I really hope he works out the right answers and soon.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I don’t blame him for trying something different, it’s not like he’s not given both Hojlund and Zirkzee plenty of opportunities. Our forwards are easily the worst we’ve had in all of our living memory. That isn’t his fault.

Yep, and it came after people praised him playing Mainoo in the 10 role literally the game before. So it's not like the notion of playing him higher up the pitch came out of the blue.

 

[Wolfbot]

He's gone down in my estimation due to the Mainoo at 9 experiment.

Don't really see the problem in trying that. It didn't work, but I'd rather he tried it and now knows that. The alternative was fielding one of our terrible strikers who offer very little anyway, and we'll now go back to that. So while nothing was gained from the experiment, I don't think we lost anything either and he now knows it's not an option.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

How on earth did you get to that conclusion? Where you finish in a league table of 36 teams after playing 8 games bears no relevance on how good you are compared to everyone else. That's like saying Arsenal must be better than nearly every team in the Champions League.

If we were in 3rd place after 8 games in the Prem would you think we are better than nearly every other team too?

We are the only team in the Europa League that has still not lost a game.

Europa teams are a lower level than the PL, the continental teams play slower and are tactically different, which suits United.

The only teams I am worried about are Lazio and Spurs. If we avoid them we can go all the way.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Europa League is the new Europa Conference League - it's lost credibility now teams are not dropping into it from Champions League. It's worse than the League Cup and slightly better than the actualy Conference League. Not really a trophy this club should be wildly celebrating IF we even win it. Which we won't.

Its not to be celebrated as much anymore but it is our chance of qualifying for the CL. We need the CL money.

 

[Posh Red]

Don't really see the problem in trying that. It didn't work, but I'd rather he tried it and now knows that. The alternative was fielding one of our terrible strikers who offer very little anyway, and we'll now go back to that. So while nothing was gained from the experiment, I don't think we lost anything either and he now knows it's not an option.

He’s being criticised for being too rigid, and also for trying new things.

 

[Denis79]

I wonder if INEOS will stick with him or if Amorims job hangs on winning the EL?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

He’s being criticised for being too rigid, and also for trying new things.

Some fans will moan no matter what. So many calling for him to be sacked already. It is embarrassing.

 

[crossy1686]

I wonder if INEOS will stick with him or if Amorims job hangs on winning the EL?

He has a free hit this season, especially when you consider the squad they have handed him.

 

[astracrazy]

We are the only team in the Europa League that has still not lost a game.

Europa teams are a lower level than the PL, the continental teams play slower and are tactically different, which suits United.

The only teams I am worried about are Lazio and Spurs. If we avoid them we can go all the way.

Well I agree...I mean we should be the best team 100%.

I just don't buy into the league positions meaning anything in the EL or CL, which your original comment suggested.

 

[hellhunter]

He has a free hit this season, especially when you consider the squad they have handed him.

That's your opinion, it's far from clear how Brexit Jim will behave

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I wonder if INEOS will stick with him or if Amorims job hangs on winning the EL?

For one the club cannot afford to sack him. They also hired him knowing this is not an easy job so will get the chance to rebuild the squad.

I am not concerned at all about the league form as he is implementing a new style while having rubbish players. This season is for learning and having a pre season and a summer transfer window will be huge for him and the team.

 

[Dannn411]

The problem is not the formation. Its the way the players are implementing. Our back 7 is probably the worst in the league all things considered. Incredibly negative and slow with the ball. Their default is to pass backwards and sideways. I saw it so many times yesterday. They are petrified to actually take initiative and try something.

 

[Judas]

I rate him and believe in him, but after how we’ve handled this window, losing attackers and gaining none, in a side who are hopeless in front of goal, I’m worried for him.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He's gone down in my estimation due to the Mainoo at 9 experiment.

The Newcastle setup was shocking but it was early on and I don't think he knew the league/teams at all.
False 9 against a back three though is odd, I really want to know what the idea was - all the info you get in coaching states clearly it's almost redundant versus a back 3.

Amorim has created a rod for his own back - he said he wouldn't change and gave that speech about how his style was what he believed in. Then he changes it, goes false 9 and it fails, so he's kind of undermined himself (he's changed the setup) whilst also making a tactical choice I think it is fair to scrutinise. He should commit to Hojlund or Zirkzee, if they keep messing up and not finishing chances it's not his fault, we should see the play around them improve but we can't be trying some weird experiment in games we can win at home.

 

[giggs-beckham]

I don’t blame him for trying something different, it’s not like he’s not given both Hojlund and Zirkzee plenty of opportunities. Our forwards are easily the worst we’ve had in all of our living memory. That isn’t his fault.

Its not so much that, which i agree with. It's more that he was really good the other day at 10.

 

[Redstain]

we could at least be good defensively...

This is the biggest concern, I've got Amorim being sacked this season due to INEOS but away from systems and tactical approaches the spaces between the defence is absolutely wild.

Anything the opposition throw down the channels is exposing this team, Palace last night caused many problems with the team running at pace against the back three. I don't think it's simply an issue that's rectified with new signings, it's on Amorim to coach the defensive shape in and out of possession.

Conte's Chelsea was absolutely solid so it's not a system orientated issue.

 

[Posh Red]

Some fans will moan no matter what. So many calling for him to be sacked already. It is embarrassing.

Agreed

 

[Toshey]

"Europa league is worse than League cup" has to be one of the worst/most ridiculous takes on this thread, full of bad takes.

 

[Escobar]

Lost 2 attacking players, gets 0 in. This is a setup to fail, really poor by Ineos as he has even less depth than before

 

[Shinjch]

"Europa league is worse than League cup" has to be one of the worst/most ridiculous takes on this thread, full of bad takes.

Yea, add it to the heap. Feel like it is all hope and cope at the moment.

 

[crossy1686]

That's your opinion, it's far from clear how Brexit Jim will behave

Brexit Jim is too tight to fire a guy they just spent £14m on to then pay him off and spend the same again on someone else. Unless we get relegated Amorim isn't going anywhere and it would be stupid to fire him before they've had chance to address the squad anyway.

 

[hellhunter]

Brexit Jim is too tight to fire a guy they just spent £14m on to then pay him off and spend the same again on someone else. Unless we get relegated Amorim isn't going anywhere and it would be stupid to fire him before they've had chance to address the squad anyway.

That's literally what he did with Ashworth, even if the amount was smaller

 

[tomaldinho1]

"Europa league is worse than League cup" has to be one of the worst/most ridiculous takes on this thread, full of bad takes.

Haha who says that?

I can see if someone argues the FA cup, though EL is 'better' as it has the CL place even if FA cup can be harder to win with a bad draw. But league cup??

 

[Castia]

I rate him and believe in him, but after how we’ve handled this window, losing attackers and gaining none, in a side who are hopeless in front of goal, I’m worried for him.

Yeah my thoughts exactly

The league is obviously long gone in terms of a decent finish but looking at the Europa League and we could definitely have a chance and a route to CL football next season…..not really sure the reasoning of not bringing an attacker in we have nobody to rotate in those front areas

 

[Wolfbot]

The problem is not the formation. Its the way the players are implementing. Our back 7 is probably the worst in the league all things considered. Incredibly negative and slow with the ball. Their default is to pass backwards and sideways. I saw it so many times yesterday. They are petrified to actually take initiative and try something.

This is it exactly. On the occasions Martinez chooses to try a riskier, more progressive option, it often results in danger for the opposition. Same could be said of Maguire properly stepping out or spraying a few decent passes out to the channels quickly. I've seen Ugarte play a couple of great balls from midfield in games we've been playing well in as well.

These moments are few and far between. We're too slow and ponderous as a team, very few have the courage to take the initiative or try to play at the speed required to test the opponent.

When you couple this with the fact we don't outwork any other team, our players are often pushed around, plus a couple make horrible errors too regularly, it's not really surprising that we are so bad to watch most of the time.

 

[crossy1686]

That's literally what he did with Ashworth, even if the amount was smaller

Ashworth's contract hadn't turned permanent, he was within his 6 month probationary period. I doubt Amorim as the manager has a non payout clause in his contract like that, and we haven't and won't replace Ashworth. We can't do that with Amorim can we?

Whether people like it or not, he will be here this season and most of next. He won't be here the following season if things don't improve next year though.

 

[crossy1686]

I rate him and believe in him, but after how we’ve handled this window, losing attackers and gaining none, in a side who are hopeless in front of goal, I’m worried for him.

But seeing as he's the 'coach' and not the 'manager' these are things he's not on control of so the board have to accept they have put him in a situation that he cannot win from.

 

[AndyMUFC]

Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho and Amad are currently our real only forward options for various reasons in a team trying to dominate possession and break teams down. It's pathetic. Is it really any wonder we're struggling?

Honestly a couple of attacking players (and it would be nice if we had Dorgu/a striker after today) and I'm convinced our fortunes could change quite quickly because once you can score goals the entire game changes. I'll start judging him properly then if we still look the same.

 

[Jeffthered]

The problem is not the formation. Its the way the players are implementing. Our back 7 is probably the worst in the league all things considered. Incredibly negative and slow with the ball. Their default is to pass backwcrds and sideways. I saw it so many times yesterday. They are petrified to actually take initiative and try something.

We don't have players with the personality. Maguire and Martinez will take that responsibility, and Eriksen will try.. but he's limited now by fitness, our centre halves cannot do it all. Dalot will try from where he plays.. but we need some better midfielders.

We need dominant midfielders. Look at Newcastle's midfield for example.. and even with those players, they still are challenged. Chelsea, L'Pool... Arsenal.. all have solid midfielders, which give their teams confidence. We don't have that. More worrying is that fact that we have few players who seem to wish to take this on.

This is why I am glad Rashford has gone, his bad attitude has reflected on to the squad. If your highest earner doesn't give a monkeys', what message does that send to the rest of the players?

 

[Plant0x84]

And we shouldn't embark upon one every time we get a new manager.

The majority of this squad can't be thrown on the scrap heap just because the last and current manager can't get a tune out of them.

Agree with the first sentence.

The second sentence not so much. This squad is such an unbalanced mish -mash of individuals that there isn’t a manager or system around that suits the squad as it currently is.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

People who are saying sack him are wrong. (There aren't many)
People who are saying trust him/back him no matter what are wrong. (There are many)

I'm pretty sure he should be given a summer of signings/preseason to change things. But one could have doubts about giving him a big budget as his reign has been a disaster so far.

The two best things he's done is get rid of Rashford and play Amad, who's form has been pretty good. I'd also add that our away matches have been pretty decent under him.

Negatives: Home performances/results. They're just unacceptable for any manager at any club, let alone Man United. It's boring, can't create, can't score, 5 at the back including 2 defensive wing backs.

I actually don't mind the Mainoo experiment yesterday, the 2 strikers are rubbish and I feel sorry for Ruben about this. Can't believe we're not getting a striker in. Our top scorer is on 6, I think only Southampton's is lower.

These days people look to press conferences when judging a manager. People were impressed with Ragnick but what's important is what happens on the pitch, and it's bleak.

He seems like a nice guy, he knows there are problems but he really needs to fix the home form quickly. The fans deserve a bit more than what they're seeing.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

This is the biggest concern, I've got Amorim being sacked this season due to INEOS but away from systems and tactical approaches the spaces between the defence is absolutely wild.

Anything the opposition throw down the channels is exposing this team, Palace last night caused many problems with the team running at pace against the back three. I don't think it's simply an issue that's rectified with new signings, it's on Amorim to coach the defensive shape in and out of possession.

Conte's Chelsea was absolutely solid so it's not a system orientated issue.

I think its too simplistic to say it was not a system issue just because Conte did it for a while. Chelsea are the only team to win both PL and CL with a back 3. Noone else has ever done it. None of the top teams in Europe's major leagues play this system. That is a massive red flag