Not even arsed at this point, will stick with this guy to the bitter end. The players are a joke, look at Dalot for example he's absolutely dreadful most of the time, he tries his best but he's crap, what can you do with that?? There's loads of other examples which I can't be arsed to go through. We've been so bad to watch for years so let's just strap in for the ride.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Explain Moyes taking a Champion team from Ferguson to 7th place. Was our 2013 team uncompetitive just when moyes took over?
No.
The answer is Moyes is crap. And it showed immediately.
Got to agree with this. I mentioned further up about what would have happened if he had said no. Goodness know who we would have ended up with. It would have either been them going crawling back to someone they said they didn't want after that I have know idea what they would have done. He really must wish he had said no. They have really handled the whole of the managerial issue badly.
it's pretty easily explained, every single one of those teams had work class players and among the best squads in the world at the time of the change.
The most worrying thing is that even with this system and players (that are not his, I know), we're still like a sieve in midfield.
Three centre backs, two centre midfielders and two central-ish 10s and we still get run through.
Sigh.
Three centre backs, two centre midfielders and two central-ish 10s and we still get run through.
Sigh.
He won't get to spend like his predecessors, but he's obviously trying to reset things. He's moved on or is freezing out a lot of the big earning failures we have been complaining about for a long time.
Yeah that’s exactly it, which will bring scrutiny on the Rashford decision, but Rashford simply has to go as he is the embodiment of the hot/cold mediocrity going on for years. Ideally we of course should have got a replacement but it’s not so simple. I feel for Amorim, think he knows what needs to be done and how to do it, but the noise might get so great he simply can’t do it and it’ll be onto the next saviour. I’d rather lose than panic buying shit signings and compound problems into the future.
Arteta always plays the 433
Your logic is flawed, their are coaches like Ancelotti, Moyes who just work with players and will try paper over as many cracks and just concentrate on getting results.
Then there are system managers, like Pep, Ruben, Alonso etc who play a unique system that requires a certain type of player profile.
You list managers taking over world class squads and you want to compare that to Ruben taking over this dross? This Hodge podge of players some which have survived many managers and failed to suit each of their styles or tactics?
He has just got first team ready player through the door, he won't need 600m over 3 seasons to show improvement.
Although we are not getting results, it is not down to the system. It is down to individual errors mostly, he is finding his feet with this squad with no pre-season, and he will eventually get the selection right and that should get us to the summer.
No Slot, Zidane, Ancelotti will suddenly magically get this lot punching above their weight for more than a few matches. They have proven it time and time again, we can't keep blaming the coaches.
Where should this United squad be placing based on the quality available vs the rest of the league?
My view is that we're lacking quality up front and physicality in key areas in a season where the league is really high intensity on the transition, so we're well off the pace to get into Europe and it's not shocking we are where we are at the moment. We can't finish our chances so we lose momentum in games and get ran over at the end...
But the point being made is that it is possible for a manager to come into a club and immediately and obviously improve the performances of the team that same season.
When they have great players
Agreed. His system uses wing backs heavily to create so it’s not that surprising we’ve struggled. Dodgy/Dalot is good enough (assuming Dorgu is ok) to see the system start to create more chances.
Getting teams to punch above their weight is literally what distinguishes a better coach from a worse one.
If teams just played at a given standard set by the fixed quality level of the players then it would never matter who the coach was - the only thing that would matter was recruitment.
The reality is we played better under RvN during his interim charge. Maybe it was a new manager bounce, but it's clear these players only know how to play a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1. I'm all for system managers but I think it was naive both from Berrada and Amorim to assume that he could come in from day 1 and implement his system. I know both we and Amorim expected there to be some growing pains but this is unacceptable. It's even more worrying that he is unwilling to adapt to his players' strengths after we see week after week that there is no improvement.
No. Better coaches will make teams perform better than worse coaches do. This is very simple. It doesn't mean that world class coaches can make average players world class. It means they can make average players perform at higher than their previous level, rather than the same or worse.
In fairness Moyes inherited a team that Sir Alex had gotten performing to a level way above where they should have been and the senior players were all in their 30's so it was always going to be a monumental task for him, especially with no proper structure in place above him to deal with new signings and sales
We don't know that from the examples as they coached world class players, not average players that they could make better. The example were not very good.
Pep Guardiola: Inherits a squad containing KDB, Sterling, Fernandinho, Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Zabaleta, Clichy and Yaya Toure, then immediately goes on a €200m summer spending spree.
@Licha-Vidic: "What an inspiring example of a manager making do with what he has"
@Licha-Vidic: "What an inspiring example of a manager making do with what he has"
We're pretty diabolical let's be honest. Just no tempo, no impetus.
I understand slowing down in order to go faster next season, but the expectation now has to be huge to offset just how bad we currently are.
I understand slowing down in order to go faster next season, but the expectation now has to be huge to offset just how bad we currently are.
And bad teams stay bad regardless of the coach unless there is time to refresh the team..
Do you agree that a better manager will make a team player better than a worse manager? Is that a principle that actually needs examples in order to be understood?
Ruben has done it away and in big matches. Our issue is at home when teams sit back and counter. Every manager we have had, had this issue since Fergie, maybe barring Mourinho but he just sat back himself or was very defensive.
It's terrifying how freely some people are turning on him already, "I don't think he'll be here next season" - hilarious.
You people do realise the club spent a combined £21m to get rid of ETH and sign Amorim, and who would replace him? There still isn't a more highly rated young manager than Amorim.
People say they want change and will happily endure some short term pain, only to change their tune after a couple of months. Weak.
You people do realise the club spent a combined £21m to get rid of ETH and sign Amorim, and who would replace him? There still isn't a more highly rated young manager than Amorim.
People say they want change and will happily endure some short term pain, only to change their tune after a couple of months. Weak.
Think there was some tiredness from Thursday, but because the squad is not great, we cannot afford to be rotating, especially against a physical, athletic side like Palace. Certain players are basically playing every single game because there is no alternative, the fact they are not fabulous players themselves just aggravates the situation even more.
The amount already spent is irrelevant as it's a sunk cost.
"I don't think he'll be here next season" is not even remotely the same as "I don't want him here next season", by the way.
For what it's worth I don't think he'll be sacked this season (nor do I think he should be).
Yh none of those teams were as bad but tbf United had a lot of injuries last season and ETH played poor tactics.
Not world beaters but that team were better than 8th place
Getting a couple of big results is not the same as improving a team.
Yes I agree that Amorim is treading familiar ground in not turning this around. The problem is that we need someone who can break that cycle - that wasn't Solskjaer, or Ten Hag, and at the moment it doesn't seem to be Amorim either.
You could actually see SJR going on a sacking spree. Then choose the wrong replacements and we just get stuck back in that vicious circle and go absolutely nowhere.
Scarily realistic scenario, yeah
I don't think it's irrelevant, INEOS are scrutinising the finances to an extreme degree. Penny pinching, some might say.
There could be a risk of Ratcliffe losing it and sacking both Berrada and Amorim, but if he does that we're in real trouble... all bets are off then. 10 more years in the wilderness at the very least.
Probably. He seems like he and his mates are still very involved with decision-making at the club, despite having hired a CEO and other key staff who you'd expect to take charge of these matters.
Berrada reportedly strongly advocated for hiring Amorim, so wouldn't be surprised to see the ax fall on Berrada if things don't work out with Amorim. Then it's back to square one with The Structure™.
Those examples
Full of world class players who had won the biggest trophies vs this mismatch of nonsense inherited by Amorim.
I think i have tagged everyone...
So let me ask you people,,,
How comes the previous manager before Zidane or Flick was not able to USE THE WORLD CLASS squad that was there before they were sacked.
Just answer me that...
- How comes Benitez was unable to use prime Ronaldo, Benzema but Zidane was able to use them immediately to achieve UCL...
- How comes Nico Kovac at Bayern was not able to USE THAT WORLD CLASS squad but Flick was able to use it and achieve a treble.
- How comes Conte took a Chelsea team which finished 10th in EPL to winning the title after signing only Kante, Luiz, Alonso.
Problem with some of our fans is they think they are clever than everyone else. We're delusional.
Then we flip it, How comes Moyes was given a 2013 champions team then took it to number 7 in 9 months... team of League winners... team of world class squad..
Again, i will say it here. A good manager doesn't need millions to win games, leave alone 3 year project or new squad players...
Limited managers are visible quite early. Just that some of our fans are clearly deluded and operating in hope and future success.
Keep it up. Can't be arsed seeing another manager come in and try to adapt to these players. We will see minimal improvements throughout the season cause frankly this squad is very average and we are playing a game every 3 days.
Give him the summer and then we can start questioning improvements to the side.
I really think he's the guy
Give him the summer and then we can start questioning improvements to the side.
I really think he's the guy
Keep what up? What are you seeing that he's doing right?
Well, ETH must have been a genius for reaching 3 finals and winning 2 cups with a worse squad than Amoriom.
I think i have tagged everyone...
So let me ask you people,,,
How comes the previous manager before Zidane or Flick was not able to USE THE WORLD CLASS squad that was there before they were sacked.
Just answer me that...
- How comes Benitez was unable to use prime Ronaldo, Benzema but Zidane was able to use them immediately to achieve UCL...
- How comes Nico Kovac at Bayern was not able to USE THAT WORLD CLASS squad but Flick was able to use it and achieve a treble.
- How comes Conte took a Chelsea team which finished 10th in EPL to winning the title after signing only Kante, Luiz, Alonso.
Problem with some of our fans is they think they are clever than everyone else. We're delusional.
Then we flip it, How comes Moyes was given a 2013 champions team then took it to number 7 in 9 months... team of League winners... team of world class squad..
Again, i will say it here. A good manager doesn't need millions to win games, leave alone 3 year project or new squad players...
Limited managers are visible quite early. Just that some of our fans are clearly deluded and operating in hope and future success.
Where does this United side finish with them as manager?
He's refusing to amend his approach to the game, which funnily enough most people were crying out for before we found a replacement for Ten Hag - but now that a squad adapting to a completely new style, mid-season with barely any time to train is expectedly struggling, people are throwing their arms around.
People think these things are so linear and a manager is gonna come in, wave a wand and fix all our issues.
Personnel and time are so important to a side, you've got arguably the best manager of all time with a priceless squad severely struggling, which you could argue is down to a loss to some of their players in Pep
These results need to be observed with context, we were an absolutely shite team before he joined, its really not surprising we are still shite before a single player of his is on the pitch - with limited time to get his ideas across
Play a defensive tactic and then wonder why we have no attack....
Better hope that at least the left side starts to look better with Dorgu and more attacking.
Better hope that at least the left side starts to look better with Dorgu and more attacking.
Because the same old hasn’t cut it. Good players should fit any system. They are some of the highest paid professionals in the world outside of Saudi Arabia. We pay wages that you’d expect to see given to the best players in the world.