Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

I am trying to formulate why there is friction - is it that we are trying to put square pegs into a round hole?


Formation that players are accustomed to = 0 - 1 - where 0 being a totally new formation and 1 being a formation that players understand

Formation that manager prefers = 0 - 1 - where 0 is the manager trying a new formation and 1 being his most trusted formation

Range 0 - 1 = where 1 being a perfect match between the manager and the players.

Ten Hag altered his formation and then tried to adjust tactics to suit the players - I believe Amorim will not compromise so we need to back him, in the end what matters is getting players who understand 3-4-3 as Amorim is wedded to that system.

Obviously this means if we do sack him then we need to decide whether we get another manager who prefers 3-4-3 or we go back to a variant of a back 4.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Another lie that has been thrown around frequently.

Pep had Kompany, Aguero, KDB, Fernadinho, Silva from previous managers and Pep was able to achieve 100 points in a season with them being the main spine of the team.
Let nobody cheat you that you need 11 new players to win anything. Good managers should know how to play with what you have.
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The same Pep who's team have fallen off a cliff because their DM is injured and a few others have got old.

Its not about having your own players it's about having good players.

For the same reason Liverpool haven't had a drop off from Klopp.
 
Ronaldo's ego said:
He’s played it smart by making it clear we’re crap and expect to suffer a lot. The fanbase have eaten it up and are treading a dangerous line by putting everything on the players and in turn absolving the manager for this horror show. I know he’s done it in Portugal but this is a different league, when he starts building his own squad then the pressure will be on big time because the ‘shit player’ excuse will start wearing thin.
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I'm 60-70% certain he's sacked by the seasons end with the current trajectory. INEOS planning for his arrival and the lack of movement in the window points towards them having a heightened expectation compared to what the manager is vocalising.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
No, Amorim just needs to show something. No tweaks or experiments, play the system he knows and we should see improvement surely? People like over egg the idea we have a load of players who should be in league 1, but it’s just blind faith in the idea they like a certain manager. I hope Amorim stays but we should see performances gradually improve towards the end of the season. Then back him in summer.
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How long do we have to wait to see this improvement though? He has been playing his system with this squad for 4 months and still havent shown any improvement, we have only got worse.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
How long do we have to wait to see this improvement though? He has been playing his system with this squad for 4 months and still havent shown any improvement, we have only got worse.
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Till the end of the season, this season was a write off the moment we didnt let go of Ten hag at the end of the last season.
 
kouroux said:
Garnacho plays more like a wide player than a 10
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And that’s the problem Amorim wants him to play more narrow and be like a second striker running into space and linking with the 9, when you’ve payed inverted left striker in a 433 from the age of 15, it’s pretty hard to just change your game in the hardest league in the World?
 
Marwood said:
The system is irrelevant. These guys aren't good enough. It needs an overhaul, needs that money spending, whatever formation we play.

Get a manager who plays 433. We still need a bunch of new players.
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It's not irrelevant. We don't have players who can play wing back and we don't have 10s.
 
gulli_G said:
Incorrect, Tixi Bergestien joined around 2012, Guardiola joined for the 2016/17 season. That gave him plenty of time to get in the players that suited his system. We should not accuse people of lies without checking the facts.
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Man United fans with being delusional.

Explain Slot winning the league with Liverpool without any signings.
Explain Zidane winning the UCL with Madrid after mid season take over from Benitez and finishing 1 point behind Barca in the league.
Explain Pep winning 6 titles after coaching Barca only that season.
Explain Flick winning a Treble after taking Bayern mid season.


Just to tell you, when a team does a mid season managerial change, it means the team was doing poorly, so how comes some managers can come mid season in a team and achieve success..

Or you will say they were team B managers.. probably we should sign team B managers then.

Even Conte won the EPL on it's first try. Slot will do it. While us we need 600m, 3 years project, 15 new players, new stadium and new owners...
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Man United fans with being delusional.

Explain Slot winning the league with Liverpool without any signings.
Explain Zidane winning the UCL with Madrid after mid season take over from Benitez and finishing 1 point behind Barca in the league.
Explain Pep winning 6 titles after coaching Barca only that season.
Explain Flick winning a Treble after taking Bayern mid season.


Just to tell you, when a team does a mid season managerial change, it means the team was doing poorly, so how comes some managers can come mid season in a team and achieve success..

Or you will say they were team B managers.. probably we should sign team B managers then.

Even Conte won the EPL on it's first try. Slot will do it. While us we need 600m, 3 years, 15 new players, new stadium and new owners...
Click to expand...

They took over competitive teams?
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Man United fans with being delusional.

Explain Slot winning the league with Liverpool without any signings.
Explain Zidane winning the UCL with Madrid after mid season take over from Benitez and finishing 1 point behind Barca in the league.
Explain Pep winning 6 titles after coaching Barca only that season.
Explain Flick winning a Treble after taking Bayern mid season.


Just to tell you, when a team does a mid season managerial change, it means the team was doing poorly, so how comes some managers can come mid season in a team and achieve success..

Or you will say they were team B managers.. probably we should sign team B managers then.

Even Conte won the EPL on it's first try. Slot will do it. While us we need 600m, 3 years, 15 new players, new stadium and new owners...
Click to expand...
Every single one of those examples had a much much better squad than our ragtag bunch
 
DomesticTadpole said:
It can take time to drill a system into players, they also have to be players capable of playing it. People say about Iraola, but look at the ropey start he had with a pre-season before it clicked, it is this season everything has fallen into place.
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Agreed, it’s also much ‘easier’ to coach and why ETH reverted to the broadly similar style first season and did well, and Ole and Jose were solid without ever putting a press in place. I genuinely reckon you could pick any random coach from a top league and say ‘set us up to counter’ and we’d finish mid table, drilling a press is different and no one has been able to do it to a high level with us yet but Ruud (plus 4 coaches before excluding Ragnick) showed what playing a quite basic but safe style gets. It’s hard to break down.

I like that Amorim has a system, he should know it inside out, but no more experiments. He set his stall out with the idea he will not change but he should know by now Dalot is a disaster on the left, he has to play a CF, just pick one, and Mainoo should compete for a 10 slot.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Man United fans with being delusional.

Explain Slot winning the league with Liverpool without any signings.
Explain Zidane winning the UCL with Madrid after mid season take over from Benitez and finishing 1 point behind Barca in the league.
Explain Pep winning 6 titles after coaching Barca only that season.
Explain Flick winning a Treble after taking Bayern mid season.


Just to tell you, when a team does a mid season managerial change, it means the team was doing poorly, so how comes some managers can come mid season in a team and achieve success..

Or you will say they were team B managers.. probably we should sign team B managers then.

Even Conte won the EPL on it's first try. Slot will do it. While us we need 600m, 3 years project, 15 new players, new stadium and new owners...
Click to expand...
Which of these teams was as bad as United last season barely scraping 8th in the league and conceding over 20 shots per game?
 
As a club we have ALWAYS played with fast wide players and attacking football even when we wasn’t successful and THAT should be the principles that the higher ups go by then a head coach is brought in to coach the players, we would have continuity between outgoing managers and incoming managers.

How many times have we said over the years since Sir Alex retired that NO manager should have absolute power of all yet here we are again as we’ve yet another tactical set up that we need to bring players in to fit and a load of players that are deadwood.

I’m not blaming Amorim as this is completely on the Glazer’s and completely on Ineos as both sets are too stupid to implement such a simple thing as a functioning footballing structure and put in place the basic foundations for the club in regards to playing style, scouting and recruitment.

A cultural reboot was 100% needed but switching formations when there’s no money to bring in the players to fit that system and is a formation the club have never played whilst telling the manager he came in then or never just smacks of horrific management and simply bringing in the hottest coaching prospect around without any actual thinking.

It’s starting to look like Ashworth was right in his thinking as Amorim may be the right man but it wasn’t the right time with how bad things are financially and what’ll it’ll take money wise and time wise to implement, the players aren’t good enough for where we want to be but it could take 3 years just for Amorim to get a squad to fit his complex system by which time we could be a lower mid table side as we’re going to have to rely on excellent recruitment which we’ve not done in well over a decade.
 
roseguy64 said:
It's not irrelevant. We don't have players who can play wing back and we don't have 10s.
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We'd still need a striker, a LB/LWB and CM minimum regardless of formation. And that's before replacing a load of others who aren't good enough.

What's the difference?
 
RedRocket9908 said:
How long do we have to wait to see this improvement though? He has been playing his system with this squad for 4 months and still havent shown any improvement, we have only got worse.
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I think you just ride it out end of season. If there’s genuinely no improvement we’re likely just avoiding relegation and I would say it’s fair to look elsewhere because clearly something is not translating from coach to players.
 
Leftback99 said:
We'd still need a striker, a LB/LWB and CM minimum regardless of formation. And that's before replacing a load of others who aren't good enough.

What's the difference?
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Something simple like buying Fernandez instead of Dorgu, not flirting with selling Garnacho and so on. I'm happy enough with the Quenda link since he'll work in a different system as well
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Man United fans with being delusional.

Explain Slot winning the league with Liverpool without any signings.
Explain Zidane winning the UCL with Madrid after mid season take over from Benitez and finishing 1 point behind Barca in the league.
Explain Pep winning 6 titles after coaching Barca only that season.
Explain Flick winning a Treble after taking Bayern mid season.


Just to tell you, when a team does a mid season managerial change, it means the team was doing poorly, so how comes some managers can come mid season in a team and achieve success..

Or you will say they were team B managers.. probably we should sign team B managers then.

Even Conte won the EPL on it's first try. Slot will do it. While us we need 600m, 3 years project, 15 new players, new stadium and new owners...
Click to expand...
Those squads are light years from this United side.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Man United fans with being delusional.

Explain Slot winning the league with Liverpool without any signings.
Explain Zidane winning the UCL with Madrid after mid season take over from Benitez and finishing 1 point behind Barca in the league.
Explain Pep winning 6 titles after coaching Barca only that season.
Explain Flick winning a Treble after taking Bayern mid season.


Just to tell you, when a team does a mid season managerial change, it means the team was doing poorly, so how comes some managers can come mid season in a team and achieve success..

Or you will say they were team B managers.. probably we should sign team B managers then.

Even Conte won the EPL on it's first try. Slot will do it. While us we need 600m, 3 years project, 15 new players, new stadium and new owners...
Click to expand...
So we just have to convince Amorim that his strike force is not the standard of Zirkzee and Hojlund, but actually Salah, Ronaldo, Benzema, Lewandowski, that he has Xaxi, Iniesta and Messi to call on.
 
The Mitcher said:
Nobody knows how the points gap will look in two days let alone a few weeks. No one predicted City's collapse or Forest's rise. Most people on the caf assumed a better season for us, I didn't because ETH was an awful manager. I could still have been proven wrong though.

The fact of the matter is, when Amorim took over his run was doable. Instead it's been made way more difficult by himself than it needed to be.
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The gap to the better teams was always going to widen because they were always going to get more points. City’s collapse has them on course to get a points tally we have only got a few times since SAF left.

It’s not doable to overhaul all those teams when you have such a weak squad, especially in attack. Amorim has to take some of the blame but he is working with a poor squad.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Agreed, it’s also much ‘easier’ to coach and why ETH reverted to the broadly similar style first season and did well, and Ole and Jose were solid without ever putting a press in place. I genuinely reckon you could pick any random coach from a top league and say ‘set us up to counter’ and we’d finish mid table, drilling a press is different and no one has been able to do it to a high level with us yet but Ruud (plus 4 coaches before excluding Ragnick) showed what playing a quite basic but safe style gets. It’s hard to break down.

I like that Amorim has a system, he should know it inside out, but no more experiments. He set his stall out with the idea he will not change but he should know by now Dalot is a disaster on the left, he has to play a CF, just pick one, and Mainoo should compete for a 10 slot.
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Hopefully the new lad coming in will slot in at LWB so that Dalot can go back to the right. He needs to decide on a team and just stick to it as much as he can to get continuity.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Man United fans with being delusional.

Explain Slot winning the league with Liverpool without any signings.
Explain Zidane winning the UCL with Madrid after mid season take over from Benitez and finishing 1 point behind Barca in the league.
Explain Pep winning 6 titles after coaching Barca only that season.
Explain Flick winning a Treble after taking Bayern mid season.


Just to tell you, when a team does a mid season managerial change, it means the team was doing poorly, so how comes some managers can come mid season in a team and achieve success..

Or you will say they were team B managers.. probably we should sign team B managers then.

Even Conte won the EPL on it's first try. Slot will do it. While us we need 600m, 3 years project, 15 new players, new stadium and new owners...
Click to expand...

It's almost like the quality of a squad is much, much more important than the manager.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
They probably had a look at some of them during the summer and declined them. Howe was going nowhere, why would he leave Newcastle. He will be eyeing the England job next. Sure we interviewed Frank, Moyes oh aye that would be a right forward step, De Zerbi didn't his Brighton team fall off the pace when he well out with the owner. Conte on cusp of winning Serie A with Napoli, so why would he come here and is another difficult character who wants to spend money.
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I'm not saying I wanted those managers. I'm saying if we had them instead of Amorim then we'd have been doing better now.

My top choice in the summer was Tuchel. Now it'd be Iraola or Howe.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Yes, but those are world class players. Ours are not.
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Right. But then, nobody is asking United to win the PL with 100 points.

Most top managers need 'their' team to achieve their highest highs. But they also need to show very good/great performances and results without "their" team. That should be obvious, as most jobs will not give them the time or money to build their own team before judging them.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Man United fans with being delusional.

Explain Slot winning the league with Liverpool without any signings.
Explain Zidane winning the UCL with Madrid after mid season take over from Benitez and finishing 1 point behind Barca in the league.
Explain Pep winning 6 titles after coaching Barca only that season.
Explain Flick winning a Treble after taking Bayern mid season.


Just to tell you, when a team does a mid season managerial change, it means the team was doing poorly, so how comes some managers can come mid season in a team and achieve success..

Or you will say they were team B managers.. probably we should sign team B managers then.

Even Conte won the EPL on it's first try. Slot will do it. While us we need 600m, 3 years project, 15 new players, new stadium and new owners...
Click to expand...
Ye but your forgetting one crucial thing. We don’t have Madrid, Barca or bayerns squads. A manager can only do so much with the squad he has. Hence the reason pep’s failing this season and that’s only after losing 1 player but that players crucial to them.
 
roseguy64 said:
I'm not saying I wanted those managers. I'm saying if we had them instead of Amorim then we'd have been doing better now.

My top choice in the summer was Tuchel. Now it'd be Iraola or Howe.
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Tuchel apparently turned us down according to him, so why was that? What did we tell him that put him off.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Right. But then, nobody is asking United to win the PL with 100 points.

Most top managers need 'their' team to achieve their highest highs. But they also need to show very good/great performances and results without "their" team. That should be obvious, as most jobs will not give them the time or money to build their own team before judging them.
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The last manager had issues getting a system into these players, so gave up in the end and just threw them out on the pitch to do their own thing. The previous manager to that struggled with them in the end, once the new manager bounce wore off. I am not sure what sort of squad we have built. It is not athletic, does not have stamina, some seriously lack intelligence, lacks technique, lacks finishing ability. What exactly is it.
 
hellhunter said:
I don't think many people actually want to see him sacked. I'm just allergic to the total carte blanche he's getting from some
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It’s a free hit this season. It was screwed before he got here. Hopefully he can guide us to the CL via the EL, maybe pick up the cup too, but the league is over already. We’d do well now to finish top 10, let alone the top 4/5.
It’s more in our interest to let him breakdown the squad now to rebuild for the long term. I know it’s not much fun, but it’s the right way. There isn’t going to be a quick fix.
 
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