Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Woziak said:
Sporadically we are playing better the stats don’t back this up, we are conceding nearly 2 goals a game under Amorim which is relegation form, his team have conceeded 28 goals in 15 games, he’s won 5 which is a 33% win rate and his team have scored 24 in 15 which is 1.6 overall.

Compared to ETH/RVN we conceeded 20 goals from 18 games, won 7 from 18 scored 32 from 18 and more importantly had 15 points from 11 PL games which 1.36 points per game which would probably finish on 52-54 and 10th place.

The Club are currently tracking for 38-41 points under Amorim. He might not think it but he’s already under pressure with SJR extremely impatient and has form for sacking coaches.

He’s a young bright coach but has no PL experience and unless he starts putting together a run and at least back to back wins in the PL.

The big issue is the team with a 5 man defence is conceding nearly 2 goals per game. He’s needs to buy at least 1 Dominant GK, 2 Elite CB’s and 2 Wing backs, 1 CM, 1 N10 and one Elite number 9 just to implement his system!

What if the club does all this and then we still don’t improve. Nuno Espiritos and Marco Silva, both Portuguese coaches also flirted with 3421/352/343 but have reverted back now to play a more expansive 4231 or 433 system, occasionally they will make an adjustment, but our Coach is not flexible enough to think about changing, then he’ll be sacked by defeat number 10 which will be in the next 5/6 games!

I said when we recruited him, he’s unproven In EPL, he will demand 7-8 players, and he has No form for wining big European trophies.

He’s lost 7 from 15 overall which means losing is too easy for him and his coaches and then calling out the squad and the club won’t help him, he’s on borrowed time, if we wanted a short term fix playing 343/3421/352 we should have got Conte who has won the PL playing that system and seems desperate for the United Job?
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Not that they are equal, but Pep who inherited David Silva, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Kompany, Aguero etc in his first season. Look at that list of players, we have nowhere near the quality. The City players are all in the top 20 players to have played in the Prem, and they just about got into CL. And Pep had a pre season to prepare the team too.

The first season was always going be tough, How Amorim develops into the second season should be what matters. People are stuck on the formation, when its just bad players. Pep played 433 and still needed to pay 50m each for a pair of wing backs, and we can agree that Amorim needs to do the same.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
This is what concerns me. Why not just put in an interim coach this season ? There is no obvious benefit to throwing in a quality up and coming coach into a squad that doesn’t appear to have the players he wants or needs for how he would like to play. He clearly said to the board “my way or highway” which is great but when you don’t have any transfers coming in or time to work/train with the squad , the EPL is not the league to change mid season in a pressure cooker club like United.

A lot fans are getting caught up in the silly ETH v Amorim blame game. The “manager bounce” is an actual thing. There’s a reason why a team looking destined for relegation, can turn things around with just a new manager. Same can happen to a team languishing in mid table. Look at what happened Peps city for two months looking absolutely dogsh.t bad, like relegation level bad. Good teams can go on a spiral and our team looks like it could get to that , with a manager who possibly hasn’t dealt with this sort of situation.

Fans who think “this is as good as this squad is” are in my view extremely delusional. There’s nothing that suggested this squad was going to be struggling this badly. Hell, people were angry with 8th last season and ETH had far more problems to navigate with injuries basically leaving him with half a Squad. And thus squad has more experience for the younger players and I don’t think it’s weaker then last season.

I absolutely believe a manager could have come in and gotten us top 8 or higher because ETH did it last season. Even Ruud got a decent manager bounce by simply raising confidence (which was exactly what Ole did).

Am I saying Ruben is not good enough ? No, I’m saying he’s come in and said we are doing things his way. That’s fine , but people need to understand that , while this may be good in longer term, it doesn’t mean that the depths that the team falls to is the objective level of the squad. And he won’t be allowed to drag us into a relegation battle. And that will happen if he cannot raise the confidence of the team, this is probably the single biggest issue at the moment. The mistakes and misfires are a result of lack of confidence and players feeling the pressure, our manager need to get that confidence up. That’s entirely our managers job.

For me , I want Amorim to get the time and the players to show us what he’s capable of doing, but I’m concerned he may not get to do that if he can’t arrest this fall. No amount of XG or possession stats Trump results , particularly if you are even struggling against one of the worst EPL sides of all time.

Qualifying for Europe would give him some relief but with the next 5 league games , he needs to be getting 6+ points to really not be under the hammer. I don’t blame him for the state of things but I do feel he’s chosen a strategy (squad has to make what he wants work versus him figuring out how to get the best of the squad) that’s making it harder for himself in the shorter term. That may pay off but it equally may be his undoing.
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I completely agree that Amorim is underperforming, and it’s a serious concern because as you say he lacks the experience to handle a situation like this effectively. However, I disagree with the notion that this squad is better than mid-table quality.

Last season, the team significantly overachieved by earning 60 points, despite an expected points total of 44, which would have placed us 15th. We ended with a negative goal difference and are on track to do the same this season. The reality is simple: without goals, you cannot win games, and this squad lacks goal-scoring ability. It’s painfully clear that our attack is below mid-table quality. Without Amad’s fantastic season, we would likely have been battling relegation. Zirkzee, the only attacking addition this season, hasn’t changed that situation.

I agree that Amorim’s poor performance and lack of tactical pragmatism are significant issues, but even a more adaptable manager would struggle to get top 6 with a squad this weak. At best, if performing at a typical level, I am convinced this team wouldn’t finish higher than 8th, unless it performs above it's ability or a player goes on a purple patch like Rashford did with his 30+ goals. I’ve said it repeatedly, even before the Amorim ETH blame game started, this is the weakest United team I’ve seen in my 40 years following the club.

We’re no longer a top-six club, and finishing in the top 10 let's you keep your job. That’s a stark reflection of how far this team has fallen.
 
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The most devastating thing post Brighton isn't the result, or Amorim's comments, or the performance.

It's the silence from the INEOS appointees
 
We have far too many defensively minded players on the field outside of playing the top 4/5. End of .
7 players started yesterday that offer zero in the final third in open play . Their lies the problem.
 
Scanny said:
There’s not a manager alive who could get a tune out of this squad.
Be realistic. This is (once again) going to take time.
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Oh come on, we’re 13th…
It’s the exact opposite. There are definitely managers that could do better. There aren’t that many managers who would do worse.

I’m pretty sure that if we fired the manager and told the players to figure it all out themselves, we still wouldn’t do worse than 10 points above relegation.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Not that they are equal, but Pep who inherited David Silva, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Kompany, Aguero etc in his first season. Look at that list of players, we have nowhere near the quality. The City players are all in the top 20 players to have played in the Prem, and they just about got into CL. And Pep had a pre season to prepare the team too.

The first season was always going be tough, How Amorim develops into the second season should be what matters. People are stuck on the formation, when its just bad players. Pep played 433 and still needed to pay 50m each for a pair of wing backs, and we can agree that Amorim needs to do the same.
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It was Pellegrini. Pep came in 2016 and finished third with 78 points in his first season.
 
Deco10Legend said:
I like Amorim but he is stubborn as hell.
He should be doing more, no excuses.
Look at Nuno at Forest, the pressure is less, but with cheaper players he is in 3rd.

And Nuno is not even close to world class.

The only excuse is it’s not his squad, but a manager should have a plan b, have to adapt to the resources available to him.

It did work in Sporting with an awful season in between his titles, but not sure he was prepared for the immense pressure of the United job.

It’s completely different world, United is one of the biggest clubs in the world, Sporting has been for decades the 3rd in Portugal.
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Why are you bringing Nuno into it? How is it relevant to Amorim?
 
I think the main issue is that when you have a strong squad that has been set up to play a certain way and you have 2 players comfortable in each position in a system, you can stick to pretty much the same formation every game and generally perform well. That is actually true for most PL teams at the moment, certainly in the top half, but a long way from being true at United. But I think in the situation we are in, attempting to stick to one way is a sure fire way to lose games. Amorim needs to be more pragmatic about the hand he has been dealt which means we cannot play 3-4-3 in every game, at least not unless Shaw can get fit or we get in at least one proper wing back. And he quickly needs to find the right players in the middle as I don't think he has cracked this yet.

In quite a few recent games we were really crying out for a formation change that didn't happen. I don't like that and I think it reflects poorly on Amorim at least as much as the players.

Maybe he thinks the more we play his way the more we learn how to do it, but I am not convinced we can afford to do that.
 
MO_Football92 said:
That's untrue. ETHs second season, you played 433 not 4231. He moved from a double pivot to isolating an aging Casemiro in midfield with Mount and Bruno in the 8s. Those two together provide zero balance and wrecked the cohesion from your 22/23 campaign.
There was also many injuries and it seemed some mismanagement.

Amorim not coaching a system before is irrelevant. Footballs about principles regardless of the system. People like you just overcomplicate a simple game. Coaching is far too overemphasized in modern football than it actually is. This is why I feel Pep has confused a lot of football people; fans, pundits etc. The game is simple, pick a system and style which suits your players confidently perform and win matches.

Too many football manager heads nowadays
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Mount started 5 games and came on for about the last 5-10 mins in his most of his 9 other appearances.
 
Dolf said:
Oh come on, we’re 13th…
It’s the exact opposite. There are definitely managers that could do better. There aren’t that many managers who would do worse.

I’m pretty sure that if we fired the manager and told the players to figure it all out themselves, we still wouldn’t do worse than 10 points above relegation.
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Ok.
Let's say we get a manager who tells them to sit deep and make Bruno send forward balls to the wings on the counter.
The only thing these players have proven to be good at during the years.

Sure, he'll get better current results (probably).

Where does that lead us in the long term?
Vibes FC, best counterattacking team in the league? Glorified Spurs, never winning anything? We've seen that with Ole.
 
In general he's spoken pretty well since he arrived but yesterday was the first time I've been really disappointed by his comments. He might have meant it sarcastically or jokingly but it's incredibly dumb to come out and say this is the worst side in the club's history.

You can think that and we might like to hear that but when you're depending on those players to do a job you can't make those thoughts public. We don't have the ability to just bin the whole squad and start again, the fact is we'll need some of these players for several seasons to come. It's Rangnick all over again. Hammering them publicly and destroying their confidence just to keep the fanbase on side a little longer isn't going to help. You can have all the ideas of preparing for next year and building for the future but you need to make it that far first.

I don't like the 'I only have one way of playing' talk either. He only needs to add mate to the end of his sentence and he sounds no different to Postecoglu. You're no longer in a league where half the games are against Old MacDonald and his team of farmers, you're coming up against very good managers with quality players every week. They will work you out. All top managers should be able to tweak and adapt their style as required. It's not good enough to just say 'this is the way I play'.
 
RopersReturn said:
If he isn’t offered the support needed to bring in new players then understandably he has every right to walk away.
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Managers don’t do this. Like, how many examples can you point to of a manager “walking away”?

United is in a tight financial situation. I don’t think they’re/would just be refusing to get him new players.
 
hellhunter said:
You expect them to open the checkbook from our nonexistent money tree because the coach threw a public tantrum?

And even worse, you missed the part where it looks like they do?
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Tantrum? When did this happen?
 
JBG said:
What dressing room? Almost every one of them are a bunch of soft cnuts with the mental strength of a newborn child it seems. I understand what you mean, but they deserve every bit of criticism they are getting, becuase they are exactly what I described them as. I don't understand how a bunch of players like them can rock up to teams like Southampton, Wolves, Brighton etc. and think they are better, when they aren't. Every one of those teams ran more, played better passes and fought more than these weaklings who are so-called MU players.
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Yeah, tell em all how utterly shit they are, they arnt fit to wear the shirt. Then beg them to win the next game. Smart management plan.
 
Escobar said:
Funny how some fans have no issues creeping up to the players as soon as a result is not there.
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I'd reached the end of my tether with them long before Brighton, you're more than welcome to continue to think they're faultless when Amorim is gone and they're all still here in the Championship.
 
PlasticRed said:
Yeah, tell em all how utterly shit they are, they arnt fit to wear the shirt. Then beg them to win the next game. Smart management plan.
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They are shit. If that hurts their feelings and they aren't up for the fight then they are even bigger losers than I initially thought.
 
PlasticRed said:
I guess youre a graduate from the roy keane school of management.
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Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. Shame he's upset you, hopefully the players don't react the same way, although some likely will.
 
Duckmanquack said:
Guys just ask yourself this in terms of Amorims ability as a coach. Would Amorims Sporting team perform better than this united team in PL this season? And the answer for me is most definitely. The team Amorim left were miles better at absolutely everything.
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The Portuguese League is very average it has a lower UEFA coefficient ranking than the Dutch League I reckon ETH and this United team walk that League with relative ease.
 
Toshey said:
Ok.
Let's say we get a manager who tells them to sit deep and make Bruno send forward balls to the wings on the counter.
The only thing these players have proven to be good at during the years.

Sure, he'll get better current results (probably).

Where does that lead us in the long term?
Vibes FC, best counterattacking team in the league? Glorified Spurs, never winning anything? We've seen that with Ole.
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This manager isn’t taking us anywhere, long- or shortterm. We are going to be spending another 200 million on players that will be useless when the next manager comes.
It’s clear we need a DoF and a transfer strategy. Then hire a manager that can get the best out of the squad we already have.
Currently we have to start over everytime we sack a manager.
 
He needs to get some attackers on the bloody pitch.

It's fine to play three centrebacks. But you can't play five defenders across the back, with two sitting midfielders, at Old Trafford, against mid-table opposition. Come on. Take a risk, we're United.
 
imonkmc said:
Season over for utd aim should be to get to proverbial 40 points then pure focus on europa and start testing the youngsters in league. Imho I would actually enjoy seeing young players being tested than watching these snowflakes play out in 3 competitions surely they couldn’t be worse
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Mate, we could still win the EL and qualify for CL next season. It could make a huge difference. It looks doable because the teams in it ain't better than us.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
He needs to get some attackers on the bloody pitch.

It's fine to play three centrebacks. But you can't play five defenders across the back, with two sitting midfielders, at Old Trafford, against mid-table opposition. Come on. Take a risk, we're United.
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I only saw the MOTD highlights but this was a real concern. It was made a lot worse by the fact the players didn’t seem to have been properly coached as to what to expect from Brighton. We had CBs following players randomly into midfield, with wing backs behind them. It all looked a complete mess strategically.

It’s a hard season for Amorim but what we should expect from him is for the players to look like they know what they are doing, even if they then make individual mistakes. There’s been some progress on this but the last two games felt like a step back again.
 
People keep going back to the 'open heart surgery' that RR mentioned - however that's happened, it's a completely new team from when he did that interview.

Obviously the problem was that we replaced them with players at the same level or arguably worse in some cases and then the manager had a terrible 2nd season and terrible start to the 3rd. He's now been replaced by a manager who favours a completely different system with a set of players who aren't good enough for the most part so the 'open heart' surgery is needed again.

The problem is we can't get it wrong again (we can) - so I'm just hoping Amorim is the right man for it or we are going to back to November 2024 again in 3 years time where Amorim is forced out after not implementing his style properly and not progressing.

We need to ensure the recruitment is right, but also that Amorim is the man capable of delivering the progress.
 
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