Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Our formation is -not- working. I know he said he'd stick to his plan, but we've not kept a single clean sheet since he's been in charge, we are getting dominated by every single team we play, and we don't have a shred of balance. Our talent pool isn't great but - we are not actually worse man for man than these teams we are getting outplayed by.

red_de_pologne said:
us when there's a pressure for the result? I wouldn't be confident at all against Porto, Frankfurt, Bilbao, Galatasaray, Lyon, Tottenham, Lazio.
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One of these is not like the others :lol:
 
I think we've got to be patient here. The seeds of a decade of appalling recruitment have finally yielded their sour fruit.

The season is a write off. It's all about Amorim seeing which players fit (Amad) which players can be useful for a while (Maguire) and the no hopers (bye Antony)

Then we go next season.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Our formation is -not- working. I know he said he'd stick to his plan, but we've not kept a single clean sheet since he's been in charge, we are getting dominated by every single team we play, and we don't have a shred of balance. Our talent pool isn't great but - we are not actually worse man for man than these teams we are getting outplayed by.


One of these is not like the others :lol:
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We actually are in many cases, look at that Brighton first team and options off the bench.

Yakuza_devils said:
Only spurs may cause us problem. We should be beating the rest
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We should be beating Wolves, Forest, West ham, Ipswich or Brighton. But we don't.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
So we will bring in someone who will turn Rasmus and Zirkzee into 20 goal a season strikers, will get Rashford's head out of his arse. Will turn turn Onana into VDS, will turn Garnacho into prime Giggs. Bruno into prime Scholes. Mainoo into Roy Keane. Our CB's into Rio/Vidic, our fullbacks into Neville and Evra. Because no matter who comes in, whatever system, some of these players are crap.
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It's true that a manager cannot turn any player into a world class player, and that United need new players sooner rather than later.

But this is a stronger argument if the discussion were about United failing to achieve a hard objective like qualifying for the Champions League. Results are much worse than that, and you don't need Rio/Vidic, Giggs, and Keane to be in the top 10 of the PL.
 
SambaBoy said:
People keep going back to the 'open heart surgery' that RR mentioned - however that's happened, it's a completely new team from when he did that interview.
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You are absolutely right. We had already carried out the open heart surgery. The problem is we did it with wrong incompetent surgeons (Ed, Arnold, Murtough) which leads to lots of serious complications.

Hope, we have the right surgeons (Berrada and Wilcox) now to carry out another open heart surgery successfully. But so far, it looks bleak.
 
red_de_pologne said:
We should be beating Wolves, Forest, West ham, Ipswich or Brighton. But we don't.
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Relax, given time, Amorim will improve the team. The players are still getting used to the system. Also, EL is played at lower pace and intensity. Most of the players will do better in EL.

We have much higher chance to qualify for next year CL via this route than in the league!
 
Varane around town said:
I think we've got to be patient here. The seeds of a decade of appalling recruitment have finally yielded their sour fruit.

The season is a write off. It's all about Amorim seeing which players fit (Amad) which players can be useful for a while (Maguire) and the no hopers (bye Antony)

Then we go next season.
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Discovering the extent of Amad's abilities has been a minor revelation but even the most casual fan could have told you about Maguire and Anthony.

Feels like the Amorim era started with us revising down our expectations from competing for European qualification to adapting to a new style of play. Feels like the standard now is not even starting to play better this season but assessing the squad.

Does any other manager get the majority of a season to assess their squad? Does there come a point where we have to start assessing whether there is actual progress on the pitch?
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Relax, given time, Amorim will improve the team. The players are still getting used to the system. Also, EL is played at lower pace and intensity. Most of the players will do better in EL.

We have much higher chance to qualify for next year CL via this route than in the league!
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Seeing as via league is 0% then yes. I'm not so confident and worry we will see some bad games in EL as well, starting this Thursday.
 
The "worst united team" line was a mistake imo.

The media are not his friend and going forward they will use that line at every opportunity.

It does him no good to create even more headlines for journalist, when they have enough already after so many defeats.
 
red_de_pologne said:
We actually are in many cases, look at that Brighton first team and options off the bench.
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Same Brighton first team that has Lewis Dunk and Danny Welbeck starting for them?

Would you have either of those starting at United? I'm the biggest former Welbeck fan in the world and he's a good player, but he's not better than Garnacho, Rashford, or Diallo. Brighton are pretty shocking man for man, I must admit I thought Mitoma would be their biggest problem and personally I'd have had a plan for him if I was Amorim, but besides that there's not a -huge- amount of talent there.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Same Brighton first team that has Lewis Dunk and Danny Welbeck starting for them?

Would you have either of those starting at United? I'm the biggest former Welbeck fan in the world and he's a good player, but he's not better than Garnacho, Rashford, or Diallo. Brighton are pretty shocking man for man, I must admit I thought Mitoma would be their biggest problem and personally I'd have had a plan for him if I was Amorim, but besides that there's not a -huge- amount of talent there.
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Their two kids in midfield ran the game.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Same Brighton first team that has Lewis Dunk and Danny Welbeck starting for them?

Would you have either of those starting at United? I'm the biggest former Welbeck fan in the world and he's a good player, but he's not better than Garnacho, Rashford, or Diallo. Brighton are pretty shocking man for man, I must admit I thought Mitoma would be their biggest problem and personally I'd have had a plan for him if I was Amorim, but besides that there's not a -huge- amount of talent there.
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Doesn't mean every single player is better on their team, but I think 5-7 of their players start for us

Joao Pedro
Baleba
Mitoma
Minteh
Estupinan

Probably would take Welbeck over Zirkzee though
 
GazTheLegend said:
Same Brighton first team that has Lewis Dunk and Danny Welbeck starting for them?

Would you have either of those starting at United? I'm the biggest former Welbeck fan in the world and he's a good player, but he's not better than Garnacho, Rashford, or Diallo. Brighton are pretty shocking man for man, I must admit I thought Mitoma would be their biggest problem and personally I'd have had a plan for him if I was Amorim, but besides that there's not a -huge- amount of talent there.
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Welbeck even right now is levels above Hojlund, and better than Zirkzee as well.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
It's true that a manager cannot turn any player into a world class player, and that United need new players sooner rather than later.

But this is a stronger argument if the discussion were about United failing to achieve a hard objective like qualifying for the Champions League. Results are much worse than that, and you don't need Rio/Vidic, Giggs, and Keane to be in the top 10 of the PL.
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Issue he has is coming in November when he didn't think it was wise, then having to deal with even more players who are not either good enough or consistant enough and then not being sure if the club are going to back him. A RWB and a striker could change a lot of things. No manager would change our situation without a good source of goals.
 
RuudTom83 said:
The "worst united team" line was a mistake imo.

The media are not his friend and going forward they will use that line at every opportunity.

It does him no good to create even more headlines for journalist, when they have enough already after so many defeats.
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He said that it's up to them to change that and he's right.
 
RuudTom83 said:
The "worst united team" line was a mistake imo.

The media are not his friend and going forward they will use that line at every opportunity.

It does him no good to create even more headlines for journalist, when they have enough already after so many defeats.
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Yes, I worry that he has been lulled by the media adulation when he arrived and doesn't grasp the ferocity of the feeding frenzy to come if he carries on losing and losing.

I know people think he is safe because he is a new appointment but if we go into the closing stages of the season flirting with relegation he will probably be sacked.

I still don't think this is very likely but it's possible. You cannot manage United and expect to be given a generous amount of time to pursue possible tactical dead ends, assess the squad etc. You cannot be losing every other week at United, end of.

Feeding the storm of criticism with this sort of soundbyte is a seriously bad idea
 
Dolf said:
This manager isn’t taking us anywhere, long- or shortterm. We are going to be spending another 200 million on players that will be useless when the next manager comes.
It’s clear we need a DoF and a transfer strategy. Then hire a manager that can get the best out of the squad we already have.
Currently we have to start over everytime we sack a manager.
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It says you are from Amsterdam.
Are you sure this manager isn't taking us anywhere, or are you just bitter that he got the job from ETH?
 
VP89 said:
Our form under Ten Hag in a span of 10 games was never as bad as it is now. We have 4 pts in our last 6 league games. What I am saying really isn't rocket science.
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Very true. But if Ten Hag couldn't get a tune out of the players that he brought in, what are you expecting from Amorim?

Hojlund, Zirkzee, Antony, Mount, Casemiro Malacia, Onana. If all left tomorrow, would a tear be shed by any United fan?
 
gaffs said:
Very true. But if Ten Hag couldn't get a tune out of the players that he brought in, what are you expecting from Amorim?

Hojlund, Zirkzee, Antony, Mount, Casemiro Malacia, Onana. If all left tomorrow, would a tear be shed by any United fan?
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I'm expecting Amorim to do better than 2 league wins in 10. That is terrible even if you throw all the context into it. Good managers are capable of better than that, and thats got nothing to do with ten hag.

There is a lot more quality in the team than the league position shows and he carries big responsibility. That's all I'm saying.
 
VP89 said:
I'm expecting Amorim to do better than 2 league wins in 10. That is terrible even if you throw all the context into it. Good managers are capable of better than that, and thats got nothing to do with ten hag.

There is a lot more quality in the team than the league position shows and he carries big responsibility. That's all I'm saying.
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Are you expecting more from the players, or is it just Amorim's fault?
 
VP89 said:
It's a fair point. There's no way Amorim has a squad with a true level of below 10th in the league.
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Doesn't he? How many players would you actually keep? I can think of 2 definitas and 4 maybes. Just because we've spent a shit load of money doesn't mean we have good players. Add to the fact that most are mentally weak it's just a recipe for disaster.
 
Toshey said:
It says you are from Amsterdam.
Are you sure this manager isn't taking us anywhere, or are you just bitter that he got the job from ETH?
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Not at all. I’ve seen us make the same mistake manager after manager. It’s an endless cycle and has nothing to do with EtH.
We’re putting all our money on a manager. That only works when your manager is SAF or Pep*.
 
Toshey said:
Are you expecting more from the players, or is it just Amorim's fault?
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We have now had full cycles of recruitment where we've changed the majority of the players in the team.

We've had players of widely divergent personalities - Eriksen, Casemiro, Fernandes, Ugarte, Maguire, Ibrahimovic, Pogba etc. Every time we fall short there's a call to blame the players as if they are all guilty of some personal moral failing. But there comes a point where it just makes no sense to keep attributing all the issues the personal characters of the playing staff. How can we possibly be so unlucky that every player we sign has a bad personality that is only discovered after we sign them?

At some point you have to zoom out and look at the bigger picture and people who control the more structural aspects of the club. That doesn't necessarily mean Amorim, but blaming the players makes less and less sense when you have generation after generation of previously competent footballers coming into our squad and underperforming.
 
He's been mentioning lack of trainings as big problem and looking at our current schedule February will give us more of breathing space. Game vs Palace on February 2nd, then the cup game vs Leicester 5 days later. Then 9 days to prepare for Spurs away and then 6 days rest before Everton away. So it's really important to get good results vs Rangers and FCSB in our 2 remaining games in Europa to finish in top 8 and not play those playoff games in February. We all remember how defeat at home to Sociedad (with that ridiculous penalty given) in group stage in 22/23 made us play vs Barca twice in February and those 2 legs took a lot of energy from players.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Our formation is -not- working. I know he said he'd stick to his plan, but we've not kept a single clean sheet since he's been in charge, we are getting dominated by every single team we play, and we don't have a shred of balance. Our talent pool isn't great but - we are not actually worse man for man than these teams we are getting outplayed by.


One of these is not like the others :lol:
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I still don't get why people blame the formation, it's not as if it was any different under EtH's 4231
 
VP89 said:
I'm expecting Amorim to do better than 2 league wins in 10. That is terrible even if you throw all the context into it. Good managers are capable of better than that, and thats got nothing to do with ten hag.

There is a lot more quality in the team than the league position shows and he carries big responsibility. That's all I'm saying.
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I too would expect more, but these lot can't do the basics. And they were making the same mistakes under ETH too.

Mazraoui's defending was shocking yesterday. That is not system related because he was in a right back position for the first and second goal.
Same for Onana yesterday and v Forest. Is that on Amorim? Bruno getting sent off V Wolves. Mazraoui hacking down a Bournemouth player for a pen. Dumb individual mistakes.

Although not playing, Hojlund cannot perform the very basic tasks of holding the ball up. An absolute prerequisite of being a PL striker. That would be expected in any system.

I have not heard anyone on the Caf make a coherent argument to say why Amorims system is to blame for our issues. At times, we have 5 across the back and still cant defend a cross into the box - see the two goals conceded v Newcastle.

I agree with you, there should be enough quality for where we are in the the league.

My belief is that Ten Hag gave up on coaching this team. Certainly in terms of trying to develop a system and identity that could carry forward. He couldn't get them to play football the way he wanted. We know he abandoned his plans several times in his 2.5 year spell. He bent to the pressure to get the results. We ended up playing "ad hoc" football with few discernible patterns of play and we relied on moments from our talented players to win games.

Amorim comes in and he wants the players to play in a particular system and to develop patterns of play. I just dont think it is sinking in with these players because they have essentially been allowed to play off the cuff for too long.

The players are capable because the majority were playing in good teams before the came to United, I just think it is taking time to sink in because there are having to think about the way they play, rather than playing off the cuff.

Now, we could have had manager come in, who stuck to a 4231 / 433 and had been equally demanding of the players in terms of what he wanted from on the pitch. That equally, could have led to the same issues.

I think its going to take time to get this team rewired and start thinking about how to play in a structured, systematic way. All the best teams play in this way, but we have not been able to for a long time.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Not that they are equal, but Pep who inherited David Silva, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Kompany, Aguero etc in his first season. Look at that list of players, we have nowhere near the quality. The City players are all in the top 20 players to have played in the Prem, and they just about got into CL. And Pep had a pre season to prepare the team too.

The first season was always going be tough, How Amorim develops into the second season should be what matters. People are stuck on the formation, when its just bad players. Pep played 433 and still needed to pay 50m each for a pair of wing backs, and we can agree that Amorim needs to do the same.
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We are One of the 5 biggest clubs in Workd Football!

Do you think Madrid, Barcelona, Liverpool or Bayern would allow any coach more than 10 League games if he’s getting 1 point per game and talking about Relegation and being the worst side in History!

If that’s what he thinks and what he’s able to achieve, WTF did we hire him?

He can’t even get his stats right when he said his team have won 2 from 10!
I’m seriously not impressed and see Iraola right now as a far better solution to the problem.
 
It feels like it doesn't take much to utterly blow the bits of progress we've seen.

Yesterday felt like a proper move back to step 1.

The rest of the season will be limp on through, hope we can get into the top half, and hope we don't have too many utter lows of home batterings.

Then absolutely huge pressure on the next window.
 
Woziak said:
He can’t even get his stats right when he said his team have won 2 from 10!
I’m seriously not impressed and see Iraola right now as a far better solution to the problem.
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Iraola's initial results were comparably bad though, weren't they?

My worry is less the results themselves, but that I don't see any pattern of improvement in the way we are playing *and* the results are bad.
 
Woziak said:
We are One of the 5 biggest clubs in Workd Football!

Do you think Madrid, Barcelona, Liverpool or Bayern would allow any coach more than 10 League games if he’s getting 1 point per game and talking about Relegation and being the worst side in History!

If that’s what he thinks and what he’s able to achieve, WTF did we hire him?

He can’t even get his stats right when he said his team have won 2 from 10!
I’m seriously not impressed and see Iraola right now as a far better solution to the problem.
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Anyone thinking we can limp to the summer in 15th with this run of form continuing and then suddenly turn into a top 4 side next season is in for a rude awakening.

That's not how any of this works. He will need to build some momentum and a platform with the players at his disposal in the next four or five months.

Unfortunately, many United fans have bought into the myth again that he's definitely 'the guy' and we're incapable of being competitive until there's a full squad overhaul.
 
witchtrials said:
Iraola's initial results were comparably bad though, weren't they?

My worry is less the results themselves, but that I don't see any pattern of improvement in the way we are playing *and* the results are bad.
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He also had a pre season and a transfer window. Amorim came in just as our season ramped up for the Christmas period.

Our fans want change but don't want to go through the bad period. They just expect things to magically improve. It's not Amorims fault, blame the people in charge of the club for initially sticking with ETH and then hiring a Manager who must have said what he intended on doing but not giving him any tools to do that with. It's honestly a farce.
 
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