Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

RedIan said:
Our hierarchy went to see Amourin in Portugal, “we want you its now or never…..”
Did any of them actually sit down with him and say.
If you come whats your plan?
What do you think of our players?
Will they fit your tactics?
Are you ok that we have not had a fit left back for 18 months?
You do realise we dont have a decent striker amongst our multi hundred million pound costing squad?

Oh and by the way we are totally skint so there are no funds to buy you a new player

I suspect not.
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Our club is incompetent, but Jesus Christ, you think they went:

Hey Ruben, your sporting team is doing well, you have until tonight to accept our offer.

And that was it?
 
Sarni said:
I don’t really get why we haven’t pushed hard for a couple of new players that he so evidently needs for his tactics to have any shot at being successful. We just can’t play both Dalot and Mazraoui (especially him) at wing back and expect to be good.

If we are going to not address squad issues immediately then what was the point of even hiring him. He quite clearly is not flexible and is not a coach that will just try to get the best out of what he has at his disposal.

Performances have also taken a nosedive. We were half decent against Forest and Bournemouth at times despite losing both games, we have not really been decent in a game for a while aside from Liverpool.
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This is what concerns me. Why not just put in an interim coach this season ? There is no obvious benefit to throwing in a quality up and coming coach into a squad that doesn’t appear to have the players he wants or needs for how he would like to play. He clearly said to the board “my way or highway” which is great but when you don’t have any transfers coming in or time to work/train with the squad , the EPL is not the league to change mid season in a pressure cooker club like United.

A lot fans are getting caught up in the silly ETH v Amorim blame game. The “manager bounce” is an actual thing. There’s a reason why a team looking destined for relegation, can turn things around with just a new manager. Same can happen to a team languishing in mid table. Look at what happened Peps city for two months looking absolutely dogsh.t bad, like relegation level bad. Good teams can go on a spiral and our team looks like it could get to that , with a manager who possibly hasn’t dealt with this sort of situation.

Fans who think “this is as good as this squad is” are in my view extremely delusional. There’s nothing that suggested this squad was going to be struggling this badly. Hell, people were angry with 8th last season and ETH had far more problems to navigate with injuries basically leaving him with half a Squad. And thus squad has more experience for the younger players and I don’t think it’s weaker then last season.

I absolutely believe a manager could have come in and gotten us top 8 or higher because ETH did it last season. Even Ruud got a decent manager bounce by simply raising confidence (which was exactly what Ole did).

Am I saying Ruben is not good enough ? No, I’m saying he’s come in and said we are doing things his way. That’s fine , but people need to understand that , while this may be good in longer term, it doesn’t mean that the depths that the team falls to is the objective level of the squad. And he won’t be allowed to drag us into a relegation battle. And that will happen if he cannot raise the confidence of the team, this is probably the single biggest issue at the moment. The mistakes and misfires are a result of lack of confidence and players feeling the pressure, our manager need to get that confidence up. That’s entirely our managers job.

For me , I want Amorim to get the time and the players to show us what he’s capable of doing, but I’m concerned he may not get to do that if he can’t arrest this fall. No amount of XG or possession stats Trump results , particularly if you are even struggling against one of the worst EPL sides of all time.

Qualifying for Europe would give him some relief but with the next 5 league games , he needs to be getting 6+ points to really not be under the hammer. I don’t blame him for the state of things but I do feel he’s chosen a strategy (squad has to make what he wants work versus him figuring out how to get the best of the squad) that’s making it harder for himself in the shorter term. That may pay off but it equally may be his undoing.
 
sincher said:
So far, he is rock bottom of pretty much all percentages, compared to all other recent managers. Points per game, loss percentage, etc. etc.

I know there have been some positives, and I am not ignoring them, but surely at some point he has to show evidence of improving something?
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Football twitter is hard on him

 
frostbite said:
Rangnick said we need open heart surgery.

Then, we got Ten Hag and we allowed him to perform open heart surgery. We got about 12 new players, spending over 600 million pounds.

And as a result, now we are at the bottom half of the league.

So, now we need again open heart surgery and 12 new players. And these new players should suit a completely different system, 3-4-3. And we have no idea if we are going to hire a 3-4-3 manager again in the future, if Amorim fails.

Do we have 600 million to spend? Is it wise to do so? Are we certain that we will not end up even lower than before?
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Yes, we spent money really poorly and wrecklessely. Some of these players can be worked with and may improve quite a bit. But, the vast majority are nowhere near good enough, and it's a ragtag collection of individuals, as opposed to a group of players who play as a team and can play a discernible style of football.
 
sincher said:
So far, he is rock bottom of pretty much all percentages, compared to all other recent managers. Points per game, loss percentage, etc. etc.

I know there have been some positives, and I am not ignoring them, but surely at some point he has to show evidence of improving something?
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Of course something will improve. Next game Garnacho and Bruno might decide to show up and we'll look like we're cruising. Maybe Onana won't be in goal or if he is in goal, he won't gift goals left and right.
Maybe Mazra won't get skinned by the opponent winger. Maybe Zirkzee or Hojlund will finally manage to at least hit the goal, instead of placing a shot wide or getting the shot blocked.

With a team full of players who miss open goals, can't hit the goal with their huge head from 2 meters out, drop the ball in opposition's feet, and most of all - full of players who get into duels with zero determination and give up chasing after losing said duel, you never know what you'll get.

It's the same for Amorim as it is for us. Who can he rely on? Who can we rely on? We have to make Amad a 30-goals per season player?
 
i know its touch to judge but from a game performance perspective we are playing better than with ETH for the most part. We controlled and really should have been up by half time.

We miss a lot of chances or fail to create enough. Even in the big games that the players supposedly raised their game for, Hojlund missed a 1v1 vs Liverpool and Bruno missed a similar chance vs City. Both shots werent even on target.
 
RedIan said:
Our hierarchy went to see Amourin in Portugal, “we want you its now or never…..”
Did any of them actually sit down with him and say.
If you come whats your plan?
What do you think of our players?
Will they fit your tactics?
Are you ok that we have not had a fit left back for 18 months?
You do realise we dont have a decent striker amongst our multi hundred million pound costing squad?

Oh and by the way we are totally skint so there are no funds to buy you a new player

I suspect not.
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i am sure he got a run down of how things are and how they’ll be in the short and mid term.

Amorim was being touted as Pep’s successor. He’d have his pick of jobs if he wanted.

There is no way he’d have come here on false pretences. The guy doesn’t mince his words, he’d say clearly if he was promised something that hasn’t materialised.
 
RedStarUnited said:
i know its touch to judge but from a game performance perspective we are playing better than with ETH for the most part. We controlled and really should have been up by half time.

We miss a lot of chances or fail to create enough. Even in the big games that the players supposedly raised their game for, Hojlund missed a 1v1 vs Liverpool and Bruno missed a similar chance vs City. Both shots werent even on target.
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Screams mentality issue, to me. They’ve got imposter syndrome
 
RedIan said:
Our hierarchy went to see Amourin in Portugal, “we want you its now or never…..”
Did any of them actually sit down with him and say.
If you come whats your plan?
What do you think of our players?
Will they fit your tactics?
Are you ok that we have not had a fit left back for 18 months?
You do realise we dont have a decent striker amongst our multi hundred million pound costing squad?

Oh and by the way we are totally skint so there are no funds to buy you a new player

I suspect not.
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Probably just looking for a solution to the ETH problem. We can’t look beyond our own nose as a football club.
 
The squad is poor and is nowhere near the level of quality it should be. However, Amorim needs to start getting some results. You cannot go in and perform this poorly for 3/4 quarters of a season, which is looking like it may happen.

Additionally, if the club knew he was coming in to try and completely change the play style why didn't they just get him up for the Summer? Doing this was also a massive risk and finances are tight. Surely it was better to just stick with ETH tread water for the season - maybe have him fluke a European place/cup again. Then restart in the Summer.

Instead the manager losing game after game and telling everyone the players (lots of whom need to be moved on) are relegation level, but on CL wages. Hardly going to make them easier to sell.
 
I think he will adapt the style of play a bit (but won't tell us/the press) to get wins. Surely he will not go the 100% Bielsa way of committing to his own strategy of all out attack come hell or high water?
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Football twitter is hard on him

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We are a unique bunch and probably do have a SAF hangover of sorts.

How often do other clubs accept things getting worse when they hire a new manager ? In fact, how often does that happen ? How often do you hear a newish manager, barely 2 months in a job say that the squad they inherited are the worst ever?

Like, it’s such a Manchester United thing for this to be happening. People forget that for all the complaints, ETH had to navigate far more crap in his time at the club. Players doing interviews against him, sex scandals , multiple player scandals , club sale , unrelenting injuries. Like Amorim hasn’t stepped into a club entirely in turmoil and it’s fair to ask how much his methods or approach are making things worse.

I will cavaet by saying I’m not blaming him or saying he needs to go, I’m asking a very very fair question. If we don’t get him any players this window I’m really worried for him and I’m probably more worried about the competency of INEOs which would be an even bigger issue.
 
Starting to get Villas-Boas vibes. And I'm also starting to think that Amorim won't be here next winter. But I so hope I'm wrong.
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
The only way, as I see it, to do that is to get some performances out of them. For instance a player like Casemiro could play well enough in a defensive system to get more than the zero interest he has had so far while playing from the bench.

I understand that playing pragmatically is a "quick fix", however, let us say that we continue down this path and assume that what has happened continues (Rashford/Casemiro not playing, results being awful, setup the same) and we get to the end of the season, will anyone want those players then? Even if they want them it won't be for agreeable terms as the interested party has us over a barrel.

As I saw it before the window opened we needed 3 signings to get us into the top half (striker, lcb, a true wb) and I thought that in the summer we could strengthen further with a 10 and CM. It looks like we aren't signing anyone this window and if we don't get rid of some big earners it will limit us in the summer as well.

Something has got to give, United have to get some semblance of form back in order to sell some players. As it currently stands we are playing poker with our cards facing the wrong way round.
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The biggest factor for the lack of interest in likes of Casemiro and Rashford is their wages, they’ve both been playing poorly for a long time so it won’t make much difference playing them now.

No one is giving us agreeable terms for someone like Casemiro and we can’t afford to absorb the loss involved in getting rid of him. We are in a really bad mess on and off the pitch and it’s going to take a while to sort out.

I do get what you are saying and it’s a good point it’s just with someone like Casemiro we’ve left it too late. We are to reluctant to give up on players as well as having the issues mentioned in terms if wages and finance.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
We are a unique bunch and probably do have a SAF hangover of sorts.

How often do other clubs accept things getting worse when they hire a new manager ? In fact, how often does that happen ? How often do you hear a newish manager, barely 2 months in a job say that the squad they inherited are the worst ever?

Like, it’s such a Manchester United thing for this to be happening. People forget that for all the complaints, ETH had to navigate far more crap in his time at the club. Players doing interviews against him, sex scandals , multiple player scandals , club sale , unrelenting injuries. Like Amorim hasn’t stepped into a club entirely in turmoil and it’s fair to ask how much his methods or approach are making things worse.

I will cavaet by saying I’m not blaming him or saying he needs to go, I’m asking a very very fair question. If we don’t get him any players this window I’m really worried for him and I’m probably more worried about the competency of INEOs which would be an even bigger issue.
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There's also a question we need to ask. What is Amorim isn't a good a coach as we think he is? It's not like his CV is undeniable (Eth's is better, and he is person non grata here).

For all the players being hammered, we don't look like a well drilled team that is lacking quality (ala LVG 2015/6). Watching Southampton play out of our press and get on to our defence with ease is alarming, and they are arguably one of the worst PL sides ever.
 
The squad is absolutely sh*te.

We have Fulham up next in the league. A side who usually finish mid table every season. This was their starting 11 in their last game; (I'm not sure if any obvious starters were injured/missing).

Leno
Castagne - Andersen - Bassey - Robinson
Lukic - Berge
Wilson - Smith-Rowe - Iwobi
Jiminez​

Is Onana better than Leno? Based off his time at United - clearly not.

Robinson walks into our side. Andersen probably does too. Bassey would be there or thereabouts in the squad.

Lukic & Berge probably both have shouts to start start with Ugarte, or be in and out of the side.

Smithe-Rowe & Iwobi probably both either start or get rotated in our side.

Jiminez is way better than Hojlund or Zirkzee.

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Could Amorim do better? I think we could get better results if we changed how we play, but ultimately I think both the club and Amorim know we are a mess and need a rebuild.

What do people think his objectives realistically were when he signed on? It's about rebuilding the team and go again next season. Use this year to whittle the sh*te out. You can tell by all the transfer rumours, note there's no incoming rumours it's all players to depart.
 
MO_Football92 said:
That's untrue. ETHs second season, you played 433 not 4231. He moved from a double pivot to isolating an aging Casemiro in midfield with Mount and Bruno in the 8s. Those two together provide zero balance and wrecked the cohesion from your 22/23 campaign.
There was also many injuries and it seemed some mismanagement.

Amorim not coaching a system before is irrelevant. Footballs about principles regardless of the system. People like you just overcomplicate a simple game. Coaching is far too overemphasized in modern football than it actually is. This is why I feel Pep has confused a lot of football people; fans, pundits etc. The game is simple, pick a system and style which suits your players confidently perform and win matches.

Too many football manager heads nowadays
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Mount was injured for most of that season. There were only about 5 games where both Casemiro and Mount started. From memory we played 4231 most of the time.
 
Thinking about Asworth’s exit - I have not read any articles on it - but now I’m wondering if he clashed with the idea of having wing-backs long-term.

I think his role entailed envisioning how we’d play for years to come - if so, Amorim’s system seems pretty unique in the sense that if it doesn’t work, it’s hard/might take a while to recover from in squad building terms.

But then again, Ashworth reportedly wanted Southgate so
 
#07 said:
I'll be honest, this is all giving vibes of Villas Boas at Chelsea.

You got a young, upcoming Portuguese coach who inherits a squad that's been built (fundamentally) around Mourinho's ideas.

The new approach just doesn't work with the existing set of players. Results go to crap. The suits seem baffled as to why and unwilling to take steps to help the man in the dugout.

Will it end the same way? Something has to give surely. If the board won't get Amorim a wingback or two, I just don't see how we can avoid continuing to drop down the table.
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The biggest difference was that the Chelsea team then had "footballing heritage" they still had core of players from Jose's EPL winning seasons. (Other reasons for AVB not being sucess are not important as this is RA thread)
Seasoned in fight were those Chelsea players. What was yesterday evident was that BHA players were up for it, they wanted to make the game pysical.
Plus the biggest thing that was already pointed out yesterday in this thread is, lack of the middle, Mainoo and CF not offering enough options.

One thing that is so noticable on this forum since the season started is a huge frustration of fans. I guess people so hoped that ETH appointment would be turning the new leaf and him messing up everyrhing with chasing FdJ for months and ending up with a more expensive and older Casemiro, buying Anthony and all the other bad buys and subsequntlly bad performances in that "kamikaze" football made the fans pile up their frustration at Amorim now.

Let's not forget he came here midseason to a mess of a squad, when he could have stayed in Lisboa and maybe won some silverware and further build on his image.
In a contrast to ETH ( the press conference after LFC 3-0 when he was sputing delusions) he recognizes that performances are bad.
But 9 months ago there were people willing to give ETH another 3-5 years time to turn.things around when it was evident that he was a no hoper and RA gets all the pilled up pressure after 3 months.
 
Bwuk said:
The squad is absolutely sh*te.

We have Fulham up next in the league. A side who usually finish mid table every season. This was their starting 11 in their last game; (I'm not sure if any obvious starters were injured/missing).

Leno
Castagne - Andersen - Bassey - Robinson
Lukic - Berge
Wilson - Smith-Rowe - Iwobi
Jiminez​

Is Onana better than Leno? Based off his time at United - clearly not.

Robinson walks into our side. Andersen probably does too. Bassey would be there or thereabouts in the squad.

Lukic & Berge probably both have shouts to start start with Ugarte, or be in and out of the side.

Smithe-Rowe & Iwobi probably both either start or get rotated in our side.

Jiminez is way better than Hojlund or Zirkzee.

---

Could Amorim do better? I think we could get better results if we changed how we play, but ultimately I think both the club and Amorim know we are a mess and need a rebuild.

What do people think his objectives realistically were when he signed on? It's about rebuilding the team and go again next season. Use this year to whittle the sh*te out. You can tell by all the transfer rumours, note there's no incoming rumours it's all players to depart.
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Its really easy to say lots of clubs have better players when our players are performing like shit. But there is a lot of quality there and it's up to the coach to bring it out. We finished 8th last season with flawed tactics and a crisis of injuries, mainly because players were in familiar positions.
 
RedStarUnited said:
i know its touch to judge but from a game performance perspective we are playing better than with ETH for the most part. We controlled and really should have been up by half time.

We miss a lot of chances or fail to create enough. Even in the big games that the players supposedly raised their game for, Hojlund missed a 1v1 vs Liverpool and Bruno missed a similar chance vs City. Both shots werent even on target.
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Sporadically we are playing better the stats don’t back this up, we are conceding nearly 2 goals a game under Amorim which is relegation form, his team have conceeded 28 goals in 15 games, he’s won 5 which is a 33% win rate and his team have scored 24 in 15 which is 1.6 overall.

Compared to ETH/RVN we conceeded 20 goals from 18 games, won 7 from 18 scored 32 from 18 and more importantly had 15 points from 11 PL games which 1.36 points per game which would probably finish on 52-54 and 10th place.

The Club are currently tracking for 38-41 points under Amorim. He might not think it but he’s already under pressure with SJR extremely impatient and has form for sacking coaches.

He’s a young bright coach but has no PL experience and unless he starts putting together a run and at least back to back wins in the PL.

The big issue is the team with a 5 man defence is conceding nearly 2 goals per game. He’s needs to buy at least 1 Dominant GK, 2 Elite CB’s and 2 Wing backs, 1 CM, 1 N10 and one Elite number 9 just to implement his system!

What if the club does all this and then we still don’t improve. Nuno Espiritos and Marco Silva, both Portuguese coaches also flirted with 3421/352/343 but have reverted back now to play a more expansive 4231 or 433 system, occasionally they will make an adjustment, but our Coach is not flexible enough to think about changing, then he’ll be sacked by defeat number 10 which will be in the next 5/6 games!

I said when we recruited him, he’s unproven In EPL, he will demand 7-8 players, and he has No form for wining big European trophies.

He’s lost 7 from 15 overall which means losing is too easy for him and his coaches and then calling out the squad and the club won’t help him, he’s on borrowed time, if we wanted a short term fix playing 343/3421/352 we should have got Conte who has won the PL playing that system and seems desperate for the United Job?
 
TsuWave said:
Thinking about Asworth’s exit - I have not read any articles on it - but now I’m wondering if he clashed with the idea of having wing-backs long-term.

I think his role entailed envisioning how we’d play for years to come - if so, Amorim’s system seems pretty unique in the sense that if it doesn’t work, it’s hard/might take a while to recover from in squad building terms.

But then again, Ashworth reportedly wanted Southgate so
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Southgate would have played 4231 and not lost 45% of his games after 15 Games in charge, he would have sorted Rashford and Garnaucho out as well and he would have had Amad shine from the right.
 
Eugenius said:
There's also a question we need to ask. What is Amorim isn't a good a coach as we think he is? It's not like his CV is undeniable (Eth's is better, and he is person non grata here).

For all the players being hammered, we don't look like a well drilled team that is lacking quality (ala LVG 2015/6). Watching Southampton play out of our press and get on to our defence with ease is alarming, and they are arguably one of the worst PL sides ever.
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There’s a reason why Pep only chooses sure thing jobs. I’m not convinced he could make it work at United as some managers can only thrive in specific environments.

It’s why I sort of have more respect for Klopp who proved himself in multiple environments. Like Ferguson , who was able to achieve success and prove his quality with even a Scottish club.

This is where I worry , Amorim could be a really top quality coach Who has taken on a project not suited for him. I don’t think you can compare what he did at sporting versus the Job he has at United. I think people underestimate the different pressure and issues that come with managing United over smaller clubs in weaker leagues. A struggling sporting could prob still finish comfortably high in that league.
 
Trying to be fair to RA.
He wanted to come at the end of the season, not part way through. Especially because he was probably told that there was little or no money for new players in January. And very little time to get his ideas into the squad.

However. He surly must understand now that his formation is not suited to these players and adapt.
He has to be clever enough to see the obvious and do what is necessary to at least stop being so open and easy to beat.
If he really is an elite coach, he should be adaptable.
 
He needs to show that there is improvement coming. I think we are missing some luck and have suffered at hands of horrible refereeing. If we are barely treading water to adapt to a new system, these two factors become a big difference between sinking and swimming.
 
sincher said:
So far, he is rock bottom of pretty much all percentages, compared to all other recent managers. Points per game, loss percentage, etc. etc.

I know there have been some positives, and I am not ignoring them, but surely at some point he has to show evidence of improving something?
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To do even worse than Rangnick is quite impressive in its own way

The worse aspect for me is the absolute lack of improvement in our attacking play - I know we have a fairly mediocre selection of attackers but I just don’t see anything at all to be hopeful about, and our goals tend to come from (and I hate using this term) individual brilliance. Possibly more so than any previous manager.

I really want it to work and I like a lot about Amorim but he’s embodying a lot of the worst features of previous managers at the moment, namely the absurd press comments of Mourinho/Rangnick and the dogmatic nature of Van Gaal (coupled with the dismal attacking play)

Overall though I still blame INEOS, they’re just as bad as Woody in terms of making knee jerk decisions and having no clear plan.
 
It's worrying how long it's taking to put a stamp on this system. Regardless of coming mid-season, he's seen enough of these players to at least try and put out a team capable of trying to implement it, but we just can't get anything going. We are in games but only just. Other managers have come into teams and made improvements in less time. Remember, some of these players have finished in 2nd place in the league and done wonders at other clubs.

I hope RA can turn it around though as, for me, he's the most likeable manager we've had since Fergie and seems to be well received amongst players. If, and it's a big if, he's not that cut for the PL (like Villas-Boas) then we are potentially about to get rid of a few wingers and start building a 343 team only to maybe revert back next season under a new manager? If we go 343 now, we do it for the next manager as well - ain't many of them.
 
soapythecat said:
It's worrying how long it's taking to put a stamp on this system. Regardless of coming mid-season, he's seen enough of these players to at least try and put out a team capable of trying to implement it, but we just can't get anything going. We are in games but only just. Other managers have come into teams and made improvements in less time. Remember, some of these players have finished in 2nd place in the league and done wonders at other clubs.

I hope RA can turn it around though as, for me, he's the most likeable manager we've had since Fergie and seems to be well received amongst players. If, and it's a big if, he's not that cut for the PL (like Villas-Boas) then we are potentially about to get rid of a few wingers and start building a 343 team only to maybe revert back next season under a new manager? If we go 343 now, we do it for the next manager as well - ain't many of them.
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Two or three maybe and that was now years ago.

The goalscorers that got us a 2nd place finish aren't here anymore.
 
As much as I hate to say it, I just do not like the formation. You would think we'd be tighter defensively but that's not the case. The players - and they are all top players, to be fair - cannot seem to adapt to the system, and Amorim is obstinately refusing to change ( like Postacoglou - and look what's happening there). It doesn't help that we have no left back, no striker with any confidence. The squad we have - overpaid, cost too much in the first place, unsellable - doesn't help. If we can dump some, get some players in that suit the system, have a full pre-season with them, I hope we will see an improvement- but have the Board ( and the fans) got the patience?
 
I hate the don't have the players to play the system talk. If Mazraoui can't play wingback then stick Antony there. If Garnacho can't play as a 10, why not give Eriksen some minutes there? It is baffling honestly. And where is Amass? The lack of players excuse won't fly when you pick the same players in the same positions every game.
 
I'm absolutely convinced he will leave this club with a worse winning rate than Moyes. Heck, at this rate, we may even finish below Moyes this very season. Won't be fully on Amorim, but he would definitely have had a big part to play in that if it does play out like I fear.
 
CunningLinguist said:
I'm absolutely convinced he will leave this club with a worse winning rate than Moyes. Heck, at this rate, we may even finish below Moyes this very season. Won't be fully on Amorim, but he would definitely have had a big part to play in that if it does play out like I fear.
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There's no chance in hell we finish higher than Moyes
 
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