Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Why? If it becomes clear that the Amorim's preferred formation is ill suited to the league and/or the players at his disposal, and we're losing the majority of our games, what's the point in continuing to play it?

That goes for any other formation and tactical choice as well.

He might in time get the right resources to make his preferred system work, but in the meantime there's fans paying to watch their team every week, plus money to be made from qualifying for Europe and doing well in cup competitions.

Until then, keep trying different options until something positive happens. If it doesn't, we'll be no worse off than we were in the first place. I really don't understand the fascination people have with persisting with something that isn't yielding anything particularly positive.

I don't understand the fascination with playing the system just because we can and potentially finishing in a really poor position as a result. Pretty much everyone is in agreement that we don't have the right players for it. What's the point in playing something that isn't going to work in the shorter term? We can surely change to that again when we have more than a handful of players suitable for it and try other options in the meantime.
I’m with you on this. How do we benefit playing the rest of the season , a system that doesn’t suit the squad ? How is this good long term if we end up in a relegation battle and out of all cups? How does that help long term ?

If I thought by maybe March we’d be getting wins and looking like a top half team (this squad is a top half squad) , I’d be ok with that. But I don’t see the benefit of just entirely giving up this season to force square pegs in round holes.

I think Amorim has potential to be a top coach but that doesn’t mean sticking to a system is the right call. i feel like some are convincing themselves that this squad is as bad as it’s looking and that committing to a failing system is like Amorim being a victim of circumstances.

Coaches have to adapt and get the most out of what they have, Amorim isn’t getting the most out of this team. Other clubs get a manager bounce, we’ve had the exact opposite.

People can talk about him speaking well publicly, but that means nothing. Manager interviews are soundbites , I don’t know why fans get so animated about what they say or how they sound.

It really is simple. The team is going to have to start picking up points soon. As I’ve said, I think if we don’t beat Southampton there is gonna be serious panic. The question may end up becoming how bad can things get before either the manager gets more pragmatic or his position is under threat.

This is ridiculous state for things to be looking this bleak. Even under ETH relegation was not a realistic prospect. The complaint was always he could grind out a few wins, well im not sure we can grind out too many wins on this form.

I just don’t accept the squad is this bad or that we can’t have some sort of pragmatism from the coach, especially if he’s not getting enough time with the squad to work on his tactics. If injuries are a problem , adapt. If confidence is an issue , adapt. if you don’t have the layers you want for what you want to do, adapt. A manager sticking to their guns when a teams in a tailspin doesn’t often end too well.
 
If he doesn’t change our two hapless wingbacks for our next few games then I would have serious worries about the guys judgement. I could understand playing them with Garna and Rashford as they have pace and can stay wide- allowing the full backs to tuck in a bit. Playing the likes of Bruno and Amad with Dalot and Maz is just asking for zero creativity
 
I don't know why he says he's not stubborn, when he's clearly being stubborn.

3-4-3 or whatever he calls it may well be a great formation, but the players for it aren't here. You're telling me he can't teach the same principles with 4 at the back, with players playing in position? That's just poor management. 3 at the back, 5 at the back, 4 at the back, you're still working with the same ideas aren't you?!

It's not Amorim's fault he's come in mid season, but he's got the players he's got. He doesn't have wing backs. He's missing at least one mobile CB (which should be Shaw, but the buggers always injured - Yoro, CB and Shaw would work, but Shaw is never fit). He's loaded with wide attackers and average strikers.

He might have been the right guy in June, but it's looking like he's not the guy to come in mid season. Here's hoping something clicks in that next month or so.
 
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Take your head out of the sand.

I think United bought players for the club last Summer was my point, not players specifically for ETH.

You’re implying they bought them specifically for Amorim. Which is a laughable suggestion.
 
Ultimately you lot need to accept that Amorim, and his ideas, is going nowhere.

If he genuinely has us in a relegation battle towards the end of the season then perhaps he will go but that’s far too early to say.

He didn’t want to come in now and I fully expect the only expectation of him this season is to get us through the season. As ugly as it may get.
 
You think INEOS will risk relegation with him?

Not on your life man.

So are you suggesting we bring Neil Warnock?

We are not getting relegated. We’ve had a tough run of fixtures where we’ve met a very organised Bournemouth team who are near the top of the league as well as a bang in for Newcastle. Had Bruno not been a petulant little twerp, then maybe we get something out of the Wolves game. If you remember the Wolves games last season, they were battles.

Compare the results to the corresponding fixtures last season and we’re not that much worse.

I think you’re for forgetting how bad we were under Ten Hag. There’s a reason he got sacked in 13th place.
 
Are there any potential changes you think would improve things?

I don't see how we score goals. I'm not necessarily advocating for a more attacking lineup, but I would like to see a way of us getting up the pitch and scoring. We seem like a team just going out to get beat at the moment.

A change to one game a week will definitely help. So they can get some time in on the training ground. Other than that I’ll leave the backseat management to the assorted experts on here.
 
No I didn’t.

I said they were bought for the club and ultimately appear to have ended up being more suited to Amorim (2 CBs, one with pace and Urgate) than they were for the old manager.

This is a really stupid argument but you specifically used the words “an Amorim favourite” about Ugarte. How else did you expect that to be perceived?

Not to mention that one of the CBs you seem to think weren’t wanted by ETH is, by definition, an “ETH favourite”.
 
People should avoid getting too hysterical unless these results continue when the fixture list looks a bit kinder.

It's not been good but we're always going to struggle against teams doing well in the Premier League with this squad, just because of the physicality issues. We might have more a chance of scoring if not for the Rashford and Garnacho situation, but the general performance is going to stay very similar.
 
It's obvious there was no strategy with the summer signings. It was obvious at the time it's no less obvious now. Yoro is the only one that would fit any sort of respectable pattern of behaviour for a top club. Zirkzee clearly wasn't scouted at all and signed on the back of a worthless Serie A award. The rest were unfavoured at their current clubs.

Just like there was no strategy in courting half a dozen managers only to not sack Ten Hag and commit another £9m in wages to him.

This squad was 14th on expected points last season. It was 13th when ETH was sacked and it's 14th now. No fecking coincidence.
 
People should avoid getting too hysterical unless these results continue when the fixture list looks a bit kinder.

It's not been good but we're always going to struggle against teams doing well in the Premier League with this squad, just because of the physicality issues. We might have more a chance of scoring if not for the Rashford and Garnacho situation, but the general performance is going to stay very simular.
Some common sense!
 
I'll stick my head above the parapet and prepare myself for the inevitable abuse but I would sack Amorim and I would do it now. The alarm bells are, at this point, deafening already and I just don't see anything within Amorim's United to suggest that he is the answer or has any positives that make him in any way appropriate to continue as Manchester United manager for any longer than necessary.

I'll start by saying a couple of things. Firstly, Ratcliffe and INEOS and the Glazers are two cheeks of the same backside and both need to go. We don't need to go on about the Glazers but their clever move to have Ratcliffe and INEOS as the face of things keeps some of the flak off them and it was a superb move on their part. Ratcliffe is a penny pinching parasite that appears to be sucking the life out of the place to satisfy his spreadsheets and, frankly, he's showing himself to be a pretty unpleasant and unlikeable character in doing so yet also showing himself and INEOS to be clowns. Secondly, yes, this is a poor United squad, many are unlikeable and many shouldn't be at the club and hopefully many move on or are moved on in the summer, though I do wonder who would look at almost all contracted players and want to a) pay a transfer fee for them that sees United recoup some/all of our initial outlay or b) pay these players what we've been paying them on a weekly basis, it's how and why we've had an extra couple of years of Harry Maguire, who turned down West Ham to continue at United on the extortionate wages we've paid him.

But I don't want to digress too much and back to my point, I'd sack Amorim. Simply, he's one dimensional, he has no plan b, his plan a looks awful, there's no signs of improvement and therefore little to hold on to, there's almost no attempt at winning games, the results have been awful and his post match comments get more and more bizarre with every passing game.

The 343 isn't working, the players don't suit it and therefore the results and manner of the results is awful. Let's indulge the "yeah, but he doesn't have the players to suit his formation" crowd. He doesn't, that much is true. The performances and results have added to what we already know. So, why are we persisting with this? It's not working and the results are poor, why are we doubling down again and again on a formation that isn't working? Is it stubbornness? And now lets play a hypothetical game of FIFA. Let's say that one or two leave in January and six or seven more of this team are going in the summer, I won't name names because I would personally be happy to see all bar three leave, why are we persisting with a formation that isn't working when many of this current crop aren't even going to be here come the start of the 2025/26 season? It comes across as lunacy to me. There were, early on, small signs of improvement with the formation, that has fell off a cliff and with each passing game we are regressing to the point where it now looks like career suicide sending out teams with no intention of winning the game, like last night. It wasn't even a Jose Mourinho type getting everyone behind the ball and grinding out results, it was essentially just sending the players, many unsuitable for the roles and formation, out in the hope that something magically clicked. It's borderline career suicide, as though he's tossed it already and is just now waiting for the inevitable P45 and suitcases full of cash. There's no attempt at winning games under Amorim, it's all about the formation, at all costs, and results are meaningless to him, which is crazy because results, confidence and morale go hand-in-hand and if anything, his kamikaze attempts at football management are sapping confidence and morale as much as Ratcliffe's relentless cutting of cash and relationships.

There isn't a plan b and you can mention that he doesn't have the players but given that there is no attempt at any point during his tenure, so far, at a plan b or doing something different when we've inevitably been behind, I can't grasp on to the hope that if he gets three of his mates over from his former club (I've heard this one before) that he's suddenly going to have a plan b that he's been keeping to himself ready to unleash on the Premier League. The Zirkzee hooking last night was, simply, damage limitation to ensure it ended at two and not six, which was a distinct possibility. I think, at this stage, it's wishful thinking to think that this improves based solely on some random signings from Sporting. I've never seen a manager or coach so dialled into one formation with the incredible arrogance and stubbornness not to change or do something different to attempt to win a game of football.

I'd put it down as a bad idea, move him on, it's not worked and go again. The problem is it's going to make the City clique look incompetent and I can't see them taking it on the chin and facing the backlash.
Completely and totally disagree. It's been said a million times on this forum but we need to take a stand and implement a system, not play 'pragmatic' anymore. All of the successful Prem teams in the last decade or more have been system-based and we need to take this pain to get there.

Do I know for certain that Amorim will be the one to take us back to the top? No, but I strongly believe in him to be that guy. For me, I'd happily take 17th place now and have had 7 months to implement the system. I don't think it will come to that though. We'll lose Sunday but start to pick up points thereafter.

I know very few of us are used to the appalling results we've recently experienced but seriously, it's been 6 weeks - it will get better.
 
A change to one game a week will definitely help. So they can get some time in on the training ground. Other than that I’ll leave the backseat management to the assorted experts on here.
We should be a step closer to that following the Arsenal tie anyway. All very bleak.

Hopefully training ground time does help results, but it isn't a guarantee either. Hopefully it coincides with a kinder league fixture list.
 
Ineos hired Amorim, who himself would rather not come until after the season. He was already in a great project and was aware that it would be a nightmare to take over United and this group of players. Despite this, Ineos insisted. And so it was.

It must be a lack of both logical sense and concentration if you think that Amorim will be fired. He will be allowed to build on for next season, which is completely appropriate. This is the path Ineos has chosen and they will stick to it.

I hope Ineos solves some problems by buying in or borrowing with an obligation to buy if some desired players are available in January. I also hope we can move Rashford, Cademiro and hopefully more already now.

I really like Amorim. He is honest, regardless of whether it is a win or a loss. He stands for the mistakes he makes and owns them. This is a man I expect and believe will achieve success.
 
Might be time to go with 3-5-2 and stick Amad and Garnacho/Antony at wingback and see how that goes. Something like:

Onana
Mazraoui - De Ligt - Yoro
Amad - Mainoo - Ugarte - Eriksen - Antony/Garnacho

Hojlund - Bruno

Would give us the mobility at the back (to cover for the full backs being so high up), numbers in the middle and a bit more attacking in the full back positions. Best we can hope for right now.
 
Its odd some people don't understand this.

I don't think it's that odd. Many managers are able to switch between different formations. When van Gaal was with us he was able to switch from 3 at the back to 4 and keep his system/philosophy intact.

So fans are asking this question in the expectation or hope that Amorim might be able to show this kind of flexibility in his formation, given that our players are looking horribly unsuited to 5-2-2-1. However, it seems Amorim pretty inflexible when it comes to formation, and it's becoming increasing obvious that the formation IS the system. That's quite worrying because as much as we can say he needs to be able to bring in players, he actually needs to make it to the summer for that to happen. At the moment, with this set of players being shoehorned into this formation, we look like every side we play can and will beat us, so something needs to change. Amorim seems to be banking on having more training sessions and being able to train the likes of Mazraoui and Dalot into passable Premier League wingbacks. His latest comments confirm that all our eggs are in this basket.
 
Amorim made a mistake last night in playing Eriksen and Casemiro together. He should have played with Mainoo as a ten who could drop back in far more effectively than Amad or Zirksee.

But let’s just think about the fact that we have two midfielders, that are in our group of top earning players, that are completely spent forces. So spent that they can’t play in a midfield two together.

Name me one other Premier League club that has this kind of problem in their squad?

You could be the best poker player in the world, but if you keep getting dealt 7,2 off suit, then you’re not gonna win many hands. That’s effectively what Amorim has right now.
 
Completely and totally disagree. It's been said a million times on this forum but we need to take a stand and implement a system, not play 'pragmatic' anymore. All of the successful Prem teams in the last decade or more have been system-based and we need to take this pain to get there.

Do I know for certain that Amorim will be the one to take us back to the top? No, but I strongly believe in him to be that guy. For me, I'd happily take 17th place now and have had 7 months to implement the system. I don't think it will come to that though. We'll lose Sunday but start to pick up points thereafter.

I know very few of us are used to the appalling results we've recently experienced but seriously, it's been 6 weeks - it will get better.
I agree with this
 
This is a really stupid argument but you specifically used the words “an Amorim favourite” about Ugarte. How else did you expect that to be perceived?

Not to mention that one of the CBs you seem to think weren’t wanted by ETH is, by definition, an “ETH favourite”.

Eh? You’re seriously reaching here pal.

I said ETH didn’t require 2 new CB’s (Martinez was already a big favourite of his and he loves De Ligt). Adding Yoro made zero sense for ETH, nor did Ugarte as he clearly didn’t rate him.

For Amorim’s system I think Ugarte makes complete sense, and he clearly likes him, and I think Yoro and another CB would make sense for a man who plays 3 CB’s.

I responded to a post claiming our biggest mistake was spending our Summer budgets on ETH players, something I personally disagree with because Yoro and Ugarte especially as well as an extra CB, suit the new manager more.

I absolutely imagine an Amorim ultimate system that includes De Ligt, Yoro and Ugarte.
Do you disagree?
 
This in an unpopular opinion but I said it in the first half hour of Monday's travesty that Amorim is taking us down if he persists with his inflexible tactics. There is not one way to win football matches, anyone who has watched the game for any length of time can see this otherwise everyone would be five at the back. We must divorce Amorim's likability with his ability as a coach. Otherwise we fans will be as blinkered as the former Sporting boss.

So far he's looking like the Liz Truss of football management. Limited vision, unbalanced thinking and not recognising the situation he's in with the players he's inherited.

Confidence is draining, points have been lost without being contested and consequently the league position is dropping like a stone. It's time to swallow the pride, play a simple system and keep playing his best 11 week after week. He needs to be prepared to do this and then, with good recruitment over a couple of windows, he can maybe shift to his philosophy.

To not do this is a recipe for relegation.

Meanwhile I won't be joining the Amorim's Army songs. He's not the Messiah..etc
What a pathetic post after just a month and a half. :mad:
 
Completely and totally disagree. It's been said a million times on this forum but we need to take a stand and implement a system, not play 'pragmatic' anymore. All of the successful Prem teams in the last decade or more have been system-based and we need to take this pain to get there.

Do I know for certain that Amorim will be the one to take us back to the top? No, but I strongly believe in him to be that guy. For me, I'd happily take 17th place now and have had 7 months to implement the system. I don't think it will come to that though. We'll lose Sunday but start to pick up points thereafter.

I know very few of us are used to the appalling results we've recently experienced but seriously, it's been 6 weeks - it will get better.
If we end up 17th, it means most of the players haven’t learned the system or can’t. So we’ll need to sell most of them, get new players in. Then obviously it’ll be unfair to expect the new players to click right away while implementing this system with them.
 
It's obvious there was no real strategy with the summer signings. It was obvious at the time it's no less obvious now. Yoro is the only one that would fit any sort of respectable pattern of behaviour for a top club. Zirkzee clearly wasn't scouted at all and signed on the back of a worthless Serie A award. The rest were unfavoured at their current clubs.

Just like there was no strategy in courting half a dozen managers only to not sack Ten Hag and commit another £9m in wages to him.

This squad was 14th on all the metrics except points last season. It was 13th when ETH was sacked and it's 14th now. No fecking coincidence.

Yeah a bunch of clowns fumbling around wasting yet more millions.

I mentioned before INEOS arrived, it's easy to see the problems from outside the club, but as soon as you start to try and fix them, bringing players IN and OUT you realise it's not an easy task.

INEOS have made some woeful choices and decisions, but I fear as with most clubs the manager will always bear the brunt of most if not all the criticism.
 
Ultimately you lot need to accept that Amorim, and his ideas, is going nowhere.

If he genuinely has us in a relegation battle towards the end of the season then perhaps he will go but that’s far too early to say.

He didn’t want to come in now and I fully expect the only expectation of him this season is to get us through the season. As ugly as it may get.
Problem is we are playing so bad and the results are so poor, that I just don't see what could realistically occur for us to get better.

Some of the players that showed at least something recently, Amad and Mazraoui have also fallen into the mix of mediocrity. If you are unable to make at least 5-6 players to play okay in a football game, you are never going to win.

There is no time and there is no chance that Amorim will get 3,4 or more players to suit his "system", not this season anyway. He either get's it going with what we have or another will come in his place.
 
A change to one game a week will definitely help. So they can get some time in on the training ground. Other than that I’ll leave the backseat management to the assorted experts on here.

Getting someone on the pitch who can convert chances would make a massive difference too.

This team are creating far mnore chances than ten hags one did. We just have no reliable strikers. Hojlund is an apprentice, zirkzee is not suited tot he premier league.

We don;t need a £100 million man, we need a player who can score 1 in 4 or 5 chances, reliably. This will give us soemthing to build on. That could be Marcus if he grows the feck up, or it could be a signing fromt he championship, but we need one or the other.
 
Eh? You’re seriously reaching here pal.

I said ETH didn’t require 2 new CB’s (Martinez was already a big favourite of his and he loves De Ligt). Adding Yoro made zero sense for ETH, nor did Ugarte as he clearly didn’t rate him.

For Amorim’s system I think Ugarte makes complete sense, and he clearly likes him, and I think Yoro and another CB would make sense for a man who plays 3 CB’s.

I responded to a post claiming our biggest mistake was spending our Summer budgets on ETH players, something I personally disagree with because Yoro and Ugarte especially as well as an extra CB, suit the new manager more.

I absolutely imagine an Amorim ultimate system that includes De Ligt, Yoro and Ugarte.
Do you disagree?

I disagree with your premise that we signed any of those players with Amorim in mind. If that was never your point then let’s leave it.

I have no idea why you think ETH “clearly didn’t rate Ugarte” but don’t really care about the answer, now ETH is gone.
 
People should avoid getting too hysterical unless these results continue when the fixture list looks a bit kinder.

It's not been good but we're always going to struggle against teams doing well in the Premier League with this squad, just because of the physicality issues. We might have more a chance of scoring if not for the Rashford and Garnacho situation, but the general performance is going to stay very similar.
Not to be a negative so and so but have you looked at our fixture list? When does it get kinder?
 
Ineos hired Amorim, who himself would rather not come until after the season. He was already in a great project and was aware that it would be a nightmare to take over United and this group of players. Despite this, Ineos insisted. And so it was.

It must be a lack of both logical sense and concentration if you think that Amorim will be fired. He will be allowed to build on for next season, which is completely appropriate. This is the path Ineos has chosen and they will stick to it.

No, it's just a different assessment of Ineos's ongoing evaluation of short term pain versus long term gain. Clearly they didn't bring in Amorim planning to sack him at the first sign of trouble. But if early results under him are catastrophically worse than they predicted then the calculations can change in light of the unexpected level of pain and disruption and falling expectations of long term gain. They will have been expecting us to show some noticeable improvements in some areas while being exposed in others. If in two months time we still look like losing every match then assessments will change.

I don't know how you can say with total confidence that Ineos choose one path and stick to it after the Ashworth saga, which is a very clear example of precisely the opposite - they made a high profile appointment at the heart of the new club structure, then decided within a matter of months that it wasn't working out.
 
Ultimately you lot need to accept that Amorim, and his ideas, is going nowhere.

If he genuinely has us in a relegation battle towards the end of the season then perhaps he will go but that’s far too early to say.

He didn’t want to come in now and I fully expect the only expectation of him this season is to get us through the season. As ugly as it may get.

Nonsense.

He’s playing a system that we don’t have the players for. We either revert the system or just play through it until we have those players, whether developed at the club or signed in the transfer window. If we revert the system we may as well have kept Ten Hag.

Amorim has literally said this himself.

There’s a chance he may eventually fail but atm the way his ideas and his system go nowhere is if we don’t back him.

For context, we play a system with wing backs and don’t have a single wing back at the club. We don’t have any proper midfielders, with Urgarte and Mainoo being the closet who are clearly not enough.

Amad and Bruno are probably the only two that can play in the number 10 positions.
 
I have no idea why you think ETH “clearly didn’t rate Ugarte” but don’t really care about the answer, now ETH is gone.

Reported that he wanted to retain Sofyan over signing him and well, he barely played him.
Then as we neared the end, Ugarte started on the bench in four of the ETH’s final five fixtures as United gaffer. His only start in that period came against Fenerbahce in the Europa League, where he was named man of the match.
Ruud instantly made him an important starter.
 
Not to be a negative so and so but have you looked at our fixture list? When does it get kinder?

After these Arsenal and Liverpool games we've got a kinder couple of months.

There's still games in there we could lose obviously as it's the Premier League and we're not very good, but most of the games are against sides in the bottom half with a couple of winnable Europa games on top of that.
 
Nonsense.

He’s playing a system that we don’t have the players for. We either revert the system or just play through it until we have those players, whether developed at the club or signed in the transfer window. If we revert the system we may as well have kept Ten Hag.

Amorim has literally said this himself.

There’s a chance he may eventually fail but atm the way his ideas and his system go nowhere is if we don’t back him.

For context, we play a system with wing backs and don’t have a single wing back at the club. We don’t have any proper midfielders, with Urgarte and Mainoo being the closet who are clearly not enough.

Amad and Bruno are probably the only two that can play in the number 10 positions.
Mount can play several roles but got injured again