Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

It's mental. We have Rashford who is on the outside. Garnacho is still out of form and low. Mount is injured yet again and Zirkzee is just plain awful.

He's started playing Amad as a 10 but without a decent WB behind him creating space for him he is far more ineffective further forward.

Amad needs to go back to RWB where he was at least a threat but then who takes the 2nd 10 slot.

The left side is absolutely garbage.

INEOS are briefing that we have no money for transfers. I really don't know how this gets fixed.
 
RDCR07 said:
Please explain how it solve a lot of the issues.
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It would allow us to play players in their natural positions for starters, that would help.

We could play with wingers and not rely on Dalot and Mazraoui to provide our entire width. As frustrating as Garnacho's been this season, he's one of our only attackers who's capable of scoring/creating anything and there's currently no place for him in this system.

It would have allowed us to start with a 3 in midfield last night. The midfield was clearly an issue, hence why Mainoo was bought on so early. What benefit is playing an extra centre back bringing us?

It's obviously not going to happen because Amorim is wedded to this system, but it would clearly give us a better chance of winning some games. I'm not sure how you could argue against that.

All this talk about needing to implement his system is worthless if we finish 15th and he gets sacked.
 
He's come in and had a few good displays the Europa league is now more important , 4 more wins in the league may keel us up?
The place has turned into a fecking mess . AMORIN just talks and talks lovely for the press ..
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Isn’t that exactly the issue? We’re not solid at the back. Our set piece defence is horrible. Now imagine that defence without Dalot and Maz but with Antony and Amad trying to win headers in there instead?
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I’m not sure if it’s necessarily because of set pieces, but there are definitely deficiencies in the team that makes Amorim think that Maz and Dallot are better options at wing back right now.

After all, I think he knows his system better than anyone and knows more about what these players can offer since taking over 50 odd days ago.
 
ETH started with the same formation in United as Amorim, but he gave up because he did not have the players for it.
 
UnitedSofa said:
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And this is why I'll always back him. He said something to the effect of, "these players were bought to play a system of football that has been proven to not work for 2 years, why would I want to go back to that system instead of one I'm familiar with and believe can work for me?"
 
Drainy said:
First thing he supposedly said when he joined and assessed the squad was midfield isn't good enough
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Yeh he did and that was good to hear. Hopefully, he gets the backing to rectify that.
 
I think it was a mistake to start Casemiro and Eriksen together against an energetic Newcastle.
 
RDCR07 said:
Please explain how it solve a lot of the issues.
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I mean, with a back five (pre Liverpool and Arsenal), we average 0.88 points per game. (34 points and relegation over a season). Likely after the next 2 games it’ll be 0.7 ppg.

With a back four we averaged 1.36 points per game (52 over a season).

So yeah, it clearly solves a lot of the issues. If Amorim insists on continuing to play 5 at the back, which is exactly what this is, he won’t make it to March as manager.
 
Sarni said:
I'd actually be more disappointed if he reverted back to 4231/433 with same/similar tactics as we had for years than I'd be if we ended up 16th. I'd basically lose all hope in him if he were to do that.
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Why? If it becomes clear that the Amorim's preferred formation is ill suited to the league and/or the players at his disposal, and we're losing the majority of our games, what's the point in continuing to play it?

That goes for any other formation and tactical choice as well.

He might in time get the right resources to make his preferred system work, but in the meantime there's fans paying to watch their team every week, plus money to be made from qualifying for Europe and doing well in cup competitions.

Until then, keep trying different options until something positive happens. If it doesn't, we'll be no worse off than we were in the first place. I really don't understand the fascination people have with persisting with something that isn't yielding anything particularly positive.

I don't understand the fascination with playing the system just because we can and potentially finishing in a really poor position as a result. Pretty much everyone is in agreement that we don't have the right players for it. What's the point in playing something that isn't going to work in the shorter term? We can surely change to that again when we have more than a handful of players suitable for it and try other options in the meantime.
 
BuzzKillington said:
I agree on the sticking with the plan, and Amorim has my complete support. But if you’d said to me at the start of the season we may be even worse than the last, I’d have viewed that as a bit of a disaster.
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ETH was telling us the same thing regarding the "process" and that it will be a painful process at times. That's fine. I don't mind
Licha-Vidic said:
People don't want to accept but it's a system issue. Same as we had with ETH ( 4141). Crowd the attack was for ETH. Now for Amorim is crowd the defence.

Another thing.. Amorim has binned off our 2 attacking outlet players, in Rashford and Garnacho.
Since City game, we haven't scored a goal.

Even on City game one goal was a penalty and the other ball over the top goal. Same ball over the top as Garnacho goal against City in FA Cup final. From Dalot in FA Cup.

The system or Amorim himself, has negated the little attacking ability we had. We are too defensive ( 6 pure defenders,, GK added there) add 1 defensive midfielder.. That's 7 defensive players.
Add EPL midfield demands ( we play with 2 midfielders) its suicide.
Add we have a young attack, who are lonely at the top

Now you can see why we are the poorest team in form since turn of the month.

Amorim has won only 2 LEAGUE games since he came here. If people believe it's something else not the way we setup is the problem then nothing much can be explained.
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So what setup will magically transform us then? ETH had 2.5 years of buying his own players and choosing a system that suited and he wasn't pulling up tree at the end of his tenure was he?

We are where we are due to very poor recruitment and bad luck. Even the best teams and managers start to overthink things

The team was shorn of it's attacking "talent" under ETH when Ronaldo decided to go nuclear. Greenwood was a massive loss (thought a right call). Sancho was frozen out and Martial well........Martial was just Martial. All of these players either left for free or well below what their market value should have been.

Martial is a good example of our poor recruitment. Even before his final season, where he tailed off both in terms of fitness and form, Martial was never a reliable front man for United. I don't even think he WAS a front man. He was never a #9. He was always more effective playing as an inside forward but goldenboy Rashford had that position sewn up.

To fill that #9 position we've pretty much relied on geriatric centre forwards e.g. Ronaldo, Cavani, Ibrahmovic. That isn't to criticise those players as I thought they all did pretty well for us but it shows our lack of planning that we had no mid-term/long term solution to that position in our team.

When we had money to spend we spent too much on Hojlund who should only ever have been an apprentice to a more experienced striker.
 
NinjaZombie said:
And this is why I'll always back him. He said something to the effect of, "these players were bought to play a system of football that has been proven to not work for 2 years, why would I want to go back to that system instead of one I'm familiar with and believe can work for me?"
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Its odd some people don't understand this.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I mean, with a back five (pre Liverpool and Arsenal), we average 0.88 points per game. (34 points and relegation over a season). Likely after the next 2 games it’ll be 0.7 ppg.

With a back four we averaged 1.36 points per game (52 over a season).

So yeah, it clearly solves a lot of the issues. If Amorim insists on continuing to play 5 at the back, which is exactly what this is, he won’t make it to March as manager.
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That’s incredibly stupid logic.
 
If they are going all-in on Amorim, I assume they are already succession planning (next manager) for this specific formation and are going to build it from the youth setup and throughout the club?

It's a massive gamble to overhaul everything if they aren't committed to United being a 3-4-3 club in the long term.
 
Ronaldo's Love Child said:
So what setup will magically transform us then? ETH had 2.5 years of buying his own players and choosing a system that suited and he wasn't pulling up tree at the end of his tenure was he?
.
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The problem is that even with ETH and Ruud, our 4 at the back setup got us many more ppg than the back 5.

This idea that Amorim can continue down this road getting twatted every week and being pulled into a relegation battle for some long term gain is folly, he won’t be our manager come March if something doesn’t drastically change.
 
Denis79 said:
I think it was a mistake to start Casemiro and Eriksen together against an energetic Newcastle.
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Yeah he should have started Mainoo and Collyer there instead, it's not like they wouldn't have been destroyed as well. Honestly there's a lot to criticise Amorim for but what choice does he have but to field some of these lineups? The main issue is him persisting with a formation that makes an already shit squad look worse.
 
Skills said:
The other issue, they've had basically feck all time to train with him. We got him in after the last international break, and brought him in for the busiest time of the year.

Same as Rangnick basically, when most other competent clubs make this sort of change before the October international break which gives you 2 breaks before the summer for the coach to train with the players
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PlasticRed said:
There are alot of deluded fans on this forum with their head in the sand. This is worse than ETH atm. We are in relegation form, losing 5 or last 6. Not scored in 270m of football. We havnt scored a single goal when Amorim has played Mazraoui and Dalot as wing backs (I think I heard on tv).

We dont look like scoring ever, and cant keep a clean sheet.
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We are 100% getting relegated if he persists with this system.
 
Ronaldo's Love Child said:
To fill that #9 position we've pretty much relied on geriatric centre forwards e.g. Ronaldo, Cavani, Ibrahmovic. That isn't to criticise those players as I thought they all did pretty well for us but it shows our lack of planning that we had no mid-term/long term solution to that position in our team.
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I find it shocking that for so many years we're had so little available in the reserves. We're talking about Obi MRtin but he's in the U18s. The fact that we had to pay 70m for not the finished article highlights a lot as well.

We've had Hugill and McNair in the academy for an age and everyone says they are nowhere near ready. We can't be sentimental about players in any of our teams.
 
astracrazy said:
And if he was training the shit out of everyone so we picked up a load of injuries, what sort of progress would that be? You'd complain about that.
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It's not about which path he chooses - I'm saying once you take a decision stand on it and take accountability for the outcomes.

Complaining about not having the squad together for training regularly when he's decided to rest them is the same as Southgate in the Euros not picking Kalvin Phillips and then complaining he didn't have Kalvin Phillips.
 
Crackers said:
Against smaller teams we should be willing to give it a try, or at least put one of them in as a WB. I know Amorim prefers to teach FBs to attack more rather than wingers to defend more, but doing it for one game might give us confidence. If we don't stick Amad in at RWB long term, where does he fit? I'm not sure he's fit for a 10 or 9 role in this system.
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That is actually not true. Amorim took wingers and made them into wing backs at Sporting. Quenda and Araujo are your examples of this.

But we’re talking about wingers with profiles like Antonio Valencia. Not lightweights like Garnacho or Anthony.

Could he turn a couple of our players into wingbacks? Maybe, but it won’t happen overnight. I think he thinks that playing fallbacks there for now is better than the other options he has. After all he knows his system better than we do.

And who cares if Amad doesn’t fit either role? Yes, he’s a good prospect but he is not good enough a player to compromise a system should the manager feel he is not the long term solution for a particular position. The same goes for Garnacho and maybe even Mainoo.

The club is in such a mess with the contracts that have been given out and up against it with PSR, that they may have to be some players that are sold in order to bring others in. And unfortunately, that might mean some of our better young players who actually have a market value. As there are very few that actually do. Unfortunately, the players that we all wanna get rid of have huge contracts and little to know market value.

When you’re in debt and on your arse, sometimes you have to sell your most valuable possessions.

Chelsea had to make some unpopular decisions over the last couple of years that their fans were going crazy about. I’m not hearing many complaints now.
 
Garethw said:
We are 100% getting relegated if he persists with this system.
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He’ll be fired before then, the stats are crystal clear, pre Amorim we were heading for a 52 point season, now we are averaging less than a point per game.
INEOS will absolutely pull the plug if he insists on keeping these tactics if the results don’t drastically improve soon.
They aren’t risking relegation because a back 5 might work in 2 years after hundreds of millions spent.
 
Dec9003 said:
This isn’t fully true though, under Ruud and even Ten Hag we got better results, this is somehow the worst we’ve been this season, due to the new system which we haven’t trained or prepared for.
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It's been a tough run of games though, and you can't tell me we've not struggled in the types of games we're losing against for a long time now, no matter what system we've been playing or the players on the pitch. We won 2 out of the first 3 games under this manager and beat City, so hopefully the results will get better as the fixture list becomes a bit kinder.

Everything performance wise is very much the same, apart from the fact I feel like we're probably less likely to score with the Rashford and Garnacho situation, but that's not down to the system and we've been battered enough times with those two on the pitch.
 
Why is he inverting the wingbacks? Antony comes on and plays from the right. Surely it would be better to play the left footed wingback on the left and whip in some crosses? I just don’t understand this at all. I thought the whole point of a wing back was to provide width and not cut in?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
He’ll be fired before then, the stats are crystal clear, pre Amorim we were heading for a 52 point season, now we are averaging less than a point per game.
INEOS will absolutely pull the plug if he insists on keeping these tactics if the results don’t drastically improve soon.
They aren’t risking relegation because a back 5 might work in 2 years after hundreds of millions spent.
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Another month of similar results and he’ll be sacked imo.
 
Garethw said:
Why is he inverting the wingbacks? Antony comes on and plays from the right. Surely it would be better to play the left footed wingback on the left and whip in some crosses? I just don’t understand this at all. I thought the whole point of a wing back was to provide width and not cut in?
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He isn't. It just what Antony does and probably why he doesn't get much game time. It would 100% make sense for him to be on the left, and I would try it vs Liverpool. The problem is, EtH moved him there once or twice and the guy sulked.
 
I will back him until the end of January but if we are seriously flirting wit relegation by that point I pray our fans and the board don't stick their head in the sand once again with a manager and say everything is fine and persist with him.

I really want him to succeed but this is a horrific moment in our club's history right now and he has to take the blame for some of his questionable tactics, line ups and rotation policy that has done us 0 favours
 
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