All that shows is that Ten Hag was a moron.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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All that shows is that Ten Hag was a moron.
I forget he exists tbh.
It’s annoying because Mount is ideal for this system, bringing the sort of energy we need.
Was going to reply the same
Initial insistence on Moyes being a long term United manager was a consequence of the club, under the indirect leadership of SAF and Gill, being stuck in the past and unfortunately arrogant enough to think that the sheer gravitas of the club could just carry an internally nominated Scotsman to success, rather than the other way round.
Moyes was out of his depth and the decision to appoint him was self-indulgent, and was later deemed to be a bad one, based on a foundation of other bad decisions.
The internal workings of the club was more cult-like then than it is now.
This situation is nothing like that.
I see some posters casually saying these players are not up for Amorim football and suggesting that we need a new set. I think it is clear this isn't happening. It was hard enough when Rangnick talked about open heart surgery. It's worser now with more 240k-350k players on big contracts.
Amorim will need to teach the existing lot how to play and win with his system, which he believes is really good
Amorim will need to teach the existing lot how to play and win with his system, which he believes is really good
Really curious who we get in January. Hopefully a left sided Defender (maybe Hernndez), Another midfielder (?) and a striker (?)
Can we pin this post to any thread criticising the manager, system, tactics or results for the rest of the season? Makes perfect sense, and articulated 100% accurately.
Klopp kept Fabinho out of the Liverpool starting lineup much longer than ETH kept Ugarte out. Not every new signing is ready/able to start games straight away. And we saw this with Ugarte, who really struggled in his first game or two.
Someone said we lost 6 in a row. Not true
The issue is partly the players. Let's be honest, everything is wrong and all areas of the club are equally culpable. The ownership is a disgrace, the players aren't very good but the manager is also setting up to fail. You cannot genuinely tell me that there is any intention to win games of football under Amorim and certainly not last night either.
The only option is not just Southgate though, is it? It's jumping to the worst possible conclusion (though y'know, is it as bad as a one dimensional clown with no plan a who is happy to lose game after game with a wholly unsuitable bunch of players playing a wholly unsuitable style of football with no plan b for when the inevitable, conceding goals, happens?).
Amorim will be lucky to get 4 or 5 games, let alone that many years. The comparisons to Klopp are baseless and fanciful. The style doesn't work even for those who are going to be at the club next season, there's almost no signs of any player taking to the formation and there is no signs of improvement, those that were there when he took over have been washed away with his stubbornness.
The one thing you cannot accuse Amorim of is pragmatism. There is nothing sensible or realistic about the way in which he has this group of players playing. As much as they are not very good and many should leave, they're being hung out to dry in a formation and tactical style that is wholly unsuitable. Sending out Casemiro and Eriksen to be overrun by Tonali, Bruno and Joelinton was ridiculous and I think even Stevie Wonder could have seen what was going to - and did - happen.
At what point does points take priority over 'style' because there will be a time where that is needed (if it isn't at that stage already)? The system isn't working, that much is clear, why are we persisting with it for five more months? Those that are out of contract and likely to leave aren't taking to the system, those many want to be sold aren't and those that people want to remain, barring probably Amad, haven't either. You're looking at realistically needing 25 players to come in to possibly get the system to work.
My man
Well, I can’t with total confidence. Ratcliffe is the one I feel unsure about. But I do think Ashworth lost his job mainly because he didn’t align with Berrada and Wilcox. That said, Ratcliffe was unimpressed by Ashworth as well and that’s my only fear that he starts making football decisions. Ratcliffe should let Berrada and Wilcox make the football decisions. If not, this might become even worse than now.
I don't care if he is sacked in a month.
What I hope is that the club has learned that there is a rotten culture. That is why keeping Ralf for an extra year at least was important back then. Because he also faced the cultural block, and unfortunately players got their way then.
The fear is that now the players will prefer to drag us into relegation zone to make a statement. Not jumping for headers or conceding goals from direct corner kicks is not due to systems etc. Is due to them not caring at all.
I really hope that we can stay in the Pl and he survives. No more pandering to millionaires who treat the club as a holiday place for the whole season.
What I hope is that the club has learned that there is a rotten culture. That is why keeping Ralf for an extra year at least was important back then. Because he also faced the cultural block, and unfortunately players got their way then.
The fear is that now the players will prefer to drag us into relegation zone to make a statement. Not jumping for headers or conceding goals from direct corner kicks is not due to systems etc. Is due to them not caring at all.
I really hope that we can stay in the Pl and he survives. No more pandering to millionaires who treat the club as a holiday place for the whole season.
He needs to get them going. Look how unfocused and lacklustre they play. No idea why they needed a sub and 35 mins yesterday to start playing football. And this has been an issue for years now. Amorim will change it but he needs the clubs support and also the fans
Then he needs to adapt his preferred formation and tactics to the league, not go back to pragmatic approach that has a ceiling of getting us into top 4 every now and again, and pretend all is fine. We've been treading water like that for more than a decade, it has to stop.
I literally don't care about results this year, not one iota. We won't get relegated, we won't win anything. I care maybe slightly about Europa League as I still live in blind hope that we can win it. I want to see players adapt to new tactics, improve, by the end of season maybe start seeing glimpses of cohesive football and system. There's no way of knowing whether this system will work or not without actually having at least some players capable of playing it.
No, your wrong System and formations are the same thing. That's what they said to me on the UEFA B course anyway
I don't believe in a "Managers" system. There's different systems, strategies and tactics coaches should select which best suits the squad. Gradual success yields more power for coaches to implement their preferred playing Idea.
You can play any style or idea within each system i.e.4231, 433, 353 etc. Balance of player personnel, tactical and social cohesion is the key.
Imo, ETH went wrong with the signings. For instance, Casemiros a legend but £60M was excessive. Mount was never going to compliment Bruno in midfield within that system thus it was a mistake to sign him.
Also there was questions about his man management
Makes zero sense. Ralf had terrible games and lost the players. Amorim is different
Moyes had the hardest task of any post Fergie manager, as he was the direct successor. Woodward also screwed him in the transfer window. There’s an argument he should have had more time and that was clearly the clubs intention. Point is I don’t think Amorim has complete freedom finish where he wants in the league, SJR will remove him if it gets too bad.
And to think we laughed at city for losing multiple games in a row and we’ve done the exact same thing. Next week could get ugly. Liverpool score for fun and we can’t score to save our lives.
Yes we bought tonnes, not very good but oke, but we always moulded them in sort of the same system the club was working at and sort of the same tactics they thought was the Manchester United way. With all the new managers our playing style was always sort of the same, some with more intensity than others. It got us nowhere. We need to step away from what people think United should play and try something completely new in a complete new setup in the club, the academy and the first team. Be it with Amorim or some else, I don’t even care. But lets not get back to the same old shit from the last decade.
We should have gone for Mourinho, Klopp or Guardiola straight after Fergie. We’d probably have another couple of titles now.
We did go after Guardiola!
Bold to assume that we won't get relegated, especially on current form.
But yes I'm at the stage where I rather we break it down to build it up again. I am glad that Amorim is sticking to his guns and rather than doing an ETH "Man Utd can't play the [different] way" and we go back to this shit again in a seasons' time.
What I hope to see though is Amorim being bold in implementing his style and will promote youth players who will run through brick walls for him. Much like LvG not hesitating to promote young players just because they can adhere to his philosophy.
It's probably this attitude that has partly led us to where we are today.
Ralf was dismissed by fans as knowing nothing because results were shit. But results were shit because the players gave up. Yet we let the players off the hook and pile all blame on Rangnick? He literally warned us all about the problems we faced, but he was ignored and then also dismissed by Ten Hag, who faced the very problems we already knew about.
Not only have we been making mistakes for 11 years, but we don't even learn from the mistakes. It's incredible to watch
Strange that he was our best midfielder though v Fener and instantly our best under Ruud and ever since. Seemed to instantly be ready then.
And Klopp had a much better side and the luxury of easing players in to his system, ETH didn’t even start him on the verge of the sack.
Either way, he absolutely is an Amorim favourite and I think he’ll use De Ligt and Yoro a lot in the future if he rides through this storm as they are fits for his system.
Every manager we've hired accept for Mourinho and LVG achieved little to deserve years and years of blind faith tbh. There has to be flashes of brilliance, and steadied improvement in performances, even if the results aren't always there, for any United manager to be deserving of that. Under Moyes, Ole and ETH we gradually got worse and worse and there were still people wanting to give them more time. Under Ruben so far he's starting how all of his predecessors finished their time here.
There's a lot of stuff he can't really be blamed for but the team selection last night was clearly a mistake. Casemiro and Eriksen shouldn't be starting together, especially against a midfield like Newcastle's. And Mazraoui and Dalot as wing-backs clearly isn't working either. I get it for certain games, and starting one of them on the right up against Hall and Gordon would have been a sensible move but old man Trippier and Murphy aren't such a threat that the extra defender was needed.
Sadly, I do think there's a genuine chance he's gone by this time next week if we lose heavily at Liverpool.
Sadly, I do think there's a genuine chance he's gone by this time next week if we lose heavily at Liverpool.
I don't want him to be sacked.
He also had terrible games and seems that he has lost some players. I am saying that by sacking RR or Amorin now, we are protecting the players again, which is a mistake.
He's got to find a way to get results short term and do better. The club also need to back him and help him in any way possible, even if getting a couple of loans in. I've read or heard once or twice that it's a difficult dressing room and I can imagine that, before you even get to the dire quality of the squad, makes this a tough gig for anyone. There should be very very few in that squad (if anyone) safe from being culled and INEOS need to find a way to get some out in Jan. Anyone's whose attitude isn't there should top that list.
All that being said, this isn't good enough and Amorim has to find results, however they come. Getting sucked into a relegation battle, even knowing what he took over, I'm sorry to say is not acceptable nor good enough.
All that being said, this isn't good enough and Amorim has to find results, however they come. Getting sucked into a relegation battle, even knowing what he took over, I'm sorry to say is not acceptable nor good enough.
The only thing I care about for the rest of this season is the game the weekend tbh win/draw or a narrow loss I’ll accept, I honestly can’t stomach another hammering off them, once that’s out of the way I’m not fussed and just want to see him gut the squad, the players are the problem, the sooner most are gone the better
Same is happening now, except Amorim might hold on to the group a bit better than him. It’s going to stop once we carry out the cultural reset. I am nearly certain we will this time. I am not sure I can watch us play anymore if we fire Amorim.
Spot on
Not gonna lie but I am bit worried that we are going to hit rock bottom before we get back to our best. My main concern is Amorin is very stubborn that he wants to play players the way he thinks. However, mine gripe with that is that we currently do not have players to carry out his ideas. He needs couple of transfer windows to get his team ready for his vision.
I would really like him to bin his stubbornness and work with what he have currently. Find the system which he thinks these players are most comfortable with and play with it till end of the season. Just like RVN did during his interim time.
I would really like him to bin his stubbornness and work with what he have currently. Find the system which he thinks these players are most comfortable with and play with it till end of the season. Just like RVN did during his interim time.
He isn't going to get sacked as long as we don't get relegated. He'll be judged through a very skeptical lens (depending on how this season goes) in the following season
Although I agree with some points-
Calling something fanciful after 2 months when that certain something took 4 years to happen.
I used Southgate as a probable option. Who would you suggest to wave a magic wand?
I would say the premier league table is reflective of where we are at the minute. We lost to Nottingham Forest (ridiculed at the time but now they are having the season of their lives). Newcastle are the in form team behind Liverpool and we inevitably took a bit of a beating in the first half.
The premier league is much more difficult now than when I grew up with the title winning teams in the 90s. Back then it was us, Arsenal, Liverpool on occasions and not much else. The other games were often formalities. Nowadays you can lose to anyone in this league. Until we sort out the rot we will continue to languish where we are. All I am saying is that changing the manager every year is not going to help things.
I see something in Amorim and would stand by my statement to say he should stay and the rotten core should leave.
And Klopp as well, didn't you?
Klopp was after Moyes if I remember correctly
This is all well and good, and for the most part I agree, but what if we continue losing games every week home and away? He still needs results, and he needs to prove to INEOS that the system/idea he has is worth investing hundreds of millions into, in this league especially. The idea that he doesn't have to work with what he's got somewhat doesn't make any sense. No club operates in this way, nevermind the elite clubs.
I think when Ineos/Berrada came in they said the starting point it is to have a style of play then build from there. The guy they have chosen to implement that style has barely had 2 months in charge, he hasn’t had a transfer window, made a signing or had an abundance of training sessions. Yet people are already shitting themselves because we’ve lost a few games. If you want the rainbow you have to put up with the rain.
What I've been saying. There's pretty much no club that lets a manager endlessly lose games before eventually acting. Even relegation fodder clubs sometimes punt managers who've genuinely done a good job after a limited run of sustained poor form. Just the way football works.
Agree totallyMy man