Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Massimo Taibi said:
The issue is partly the players. Let's be honest, everything is wrong and all areas of the club are equally culpable. The ownership is a disgrace, the players aren't very good but the manager is also setting up to fail. You cannot genuinely tell me that there is any intention to win games of football under Amorim and certainly not last night either.

The only option is not just Southgate though, is it? It's jumping to the worst possible conclusion (though y'know, is it as bad as a one dimensional clown with no plan a who is happy to lose game after game with a wholly unsuitable bunch of players playing a wholly unsuitable style of football with no plan b for when the inevitable, conceding goals, happens?).

Amorim will be lucky to get 4 or 5 games, let alone that many years. The comparisons to Klopp are baseless and fanciful. The style doesn't work even for those who are going to be at the club next season, there's almost no signs of any player taking to the formation and there is no signs of improvement, those that were there when he took over have been washed away with his stubbornness.




The one thing you cannot accuse Amorim of is pragmatism. There is nothing sensible or realistic about the way in which he has this group of players playing. As much as they are not very good and many should leave, they're being hung out to dry in a formation and tactical style that is wholly unsuitable. Sending out Casemiro and Eriksen to be overrun by Tonali, Bruno and Joelinton was ridiculous and I think even Stevie Wonder could have seen what was going to - and did - happen.

At what point does points take priority over 'style' because there will be a time where that is needed (if it isn't at that stage already)? The system isn't working, that much is clear, why are we persisting with it for five more months? Those that are out of contract and likely to leave aren't taking to the system, those many want to be sold aren't and those that people want to remain, barring probably Amad, haven't either. You're looking at realistically needing 25 players to come in to possibly get the system to work.
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Although I agree with some points-

Calling something fanciful after 2 months when that certain something took 4 years to happen.

I used Southgate as a probable option. Who would you suggest to wave a magic wand?

I would say the premier league table is reflective of where we are at the minute. We lost to Nottingham Forest (ridiculed at the time but now they are having the season of their lives). Newcastle are the in form team behind Liverpool and we inevitably took a bit of a beating in the first half.

The premier league is much more difficult now than when I grew up with the title winning teams in the 90s. Back then it was us, Arsenal, Liverpool on occasions and not much else. The other games were often formalities. Nowadays you can lose to anyone in this league. Until we sort out the rot we will continue to languish where we are. All I am saying is that changing the manager every year is not going to help things.

I see something in Amorim and would stand by my statement to say he should stay and the rotten core should leave.
 
gaffs said:
Even if we do get dragged into a relegation battle, he won’t get fired. INEOS wont pay off two managers and employ a third. Especially when they have paid Sporting to release Amorim.

Amorim said himself that this process could get ugly. I very much doubt he realised just how poor these players were. Probably from 2 1/2 years of playing ad hoc football under Ten Hag.

They’ve been playing off the cuff for years, so it’s not going to be easy for them all of a sudden to learn how to play any kind of organised, joined up, system dependent football.

All the best teams are playing in this way. If fans want a manager that’s going to let this lot play how they want then we will continue to keep finishing upper mid table despite having one of the biggest wage bills in Europe. We will continue to be Moments FC with players like Bruno or Rashford occasionally popping up with a moment of brilliance to win a game.

We won’t ever play any kind of recognisable system or show any repeatable patterns of play. We will continue not be able to press like every decent Premier League team does and we will continue not to be able to string four passes together.

And every player we sign will get infected by the fact that we have managers that don’t stick to their system and principles.

It’s essentially like allowing kids in school to set the curriculum. They may enjoy it, but they won’t learn much.
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This is all well and good, and for the most part I agree, but what if we continue losing games every week home and away? He still needs results, and he needs to prove to INEOS that the system/idea he has is worth investing hundreds of millions into, in this league especially. The idea that he doesn't have to work with what he's got somewhat doesn't make any sense. No club operates in this way, nevermind the elite clubs.
 
I think when Ineos/Berrada came in they said the starting point it is to have a style of play then build from there. The guy they have chosen to implement that style has barely had 2 months in charge, he hasn’t had a transfer window, made a signing or had an abundance of training sessions. Yet people are already shitting themselves because we’ve lost a few games. If you want the rainbow you have to put up with the rain.
 
Shark said:
This is all well and good, and for the most part I agree, but what if we continue losing games every week home and away? He still needs results, and he needs to prove to INEOS that the system/idea he has is worth investing hundreds of millions into, in this league especially. The idea that he doesn't have to work with what he's got somewhat doesn't make any sense. No club operates in this way, nevermind the elite clubs. Even Chelsea before they started to click could still pick up a odd result to keep some dignity.
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What I've been saying. There's pretty much no club that lets a manager endlessly lose games before eventually acting. Even relegation fodder clubs sometimes punt managers who've genuinely done a good job after a limited run of sustained poor form. Just the way football works.
 
Butty19 said:
I think when Ineos/Berrada came in they said the starting point it is to have a style of play then build from there. The guy they have chosen to implement that style has barely had 2 months in charge, he hasn’t had a transfer window, made a signing or had an abundance of training sessions. Yet people are already shitting themselves because we’ve lost a few games. If you want the rainbow you have to put up with the rain.
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Think the problem has been less the defeats and more the nature of the losses. Continually losing games by multiple goals and being outclassed by teams United are supposed to be better than. It's all well and good to have faith in a playing style but results will genuinely need to improve soon or that isn't going to cut it.
 
Butty19 said:
I think when Ineos/Berrada came in they said the starting point it is to have a style of play then build from there. The guy they have chosen to implement that style has barely had 2 months in charge, he hasn’t had a transfer window, made a signing or had an abundance of training sessions. Yet people are already shitting themselves because we’ve lost a few games. If you want the rainbow you have to put up with the rain.
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And still we have a clearer style of play than we ever had under Ten Hag.
 
Butty19 said:
I think when Ineos/Berrada came in they said the starting point it is to have a style of play then build from there. The guy they have chosen to implement that style has barely had 2 months in charge, he hasn’t had a transfer window, made a signing or had an abundance of training sessions. Yet people are already shitting themselves because we’ve lost a few games. If you want the rainbow you have to put up with the rain.
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Actually, no.

The same way, a PL team does not have to produce consistently dogshit football for months to pick up a new manager's style.
 
hobbers said:
I dont care what happens in the next 2 games. Crucially we have a full week of training after each. Then we have consecutive home games against Southampton and Brighton and Rangers. And a kind fixture list after that until March.

And even if we dont turn a corner, I'd rather risk relegation and the improved prospect of getting rid of the Glazer/Ineos axis than see Rashford outlive another manager.

There's no manager out there who could join us mid season and turn Mount and Shaw back into footballers. Or get a tune out of Rashford, Malacia, Antony and Zirkzee. Or prevent Lindelof, Maguire, Casemiro and Eriksen from seeing out their contracts playing walking pace football.
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I agree, but I hope he manages to get some good results in the process. He is saying the right things and making some good decisions (with rashford mainly). He has his philosophy and he will get the chance to implement it, but he needs to figure out his best formation (short term) until he signs the players he needs. He needs to make the right tactical decisions. For example, he should not play Eriksen and Casemiro against Tonali, Joelinton and Guimaraes. That was none-sense to be honest.
 
I was ill yesterday, so couldn't watch the game, but any talk of sacking him is completely radio rental.
We'll suffer the next two games as well no doubt, but we were warned we'd get worse before we get better and now its happening people are losing their shit.
Stick with the guy and at least give him a chance. He'd rather have waited until the summer, those reasons are becoming clearer now.
He's handling the Rashford situation well and at least he isn't ETH and abandoning all principles after a couple of shit results.
We aren't getting relegated, so it doesn't really matter if we finish 10th or 17th.
See what happens in the summer and if we start next season still not performing then by all means get rid in November/December time, but anything before that is utterly crazy.
 
Butty19 said:
I think when Ineos/Berrada came in they said the starting point it is to have a style of play then build from there. The guy they have chosen to implement that style has barely had 2 months in charge, he hasn’t had a transfer window, made a signing or had an abundance of training sessions. Yet people are already shitting themselves because we’ve lost a few games. If you want the rainbow you have to put up with the rain.
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Hey, Dolly!
 
Butty19 said:
I think when Ineos/Berrada came in they said the starting point it is to have a style of play then build from there. The guy they have chosen to implement that style has barely had 2 months in charge, he hasn’t had a transfer window, made a signing or had an abundance of training sessions. Yet people are already shitting themselves because we’ve lost a few games. If you want the rainbow you have to put up with the rain.
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Fair points. We're basically in the same position we were in under ETH. Albeit, a better position in EL but out of the league cup. Not fussed about that.
 
Shark said:
This is all well and good, and for the most part I agree, but what if we continue losing games every week home and away? He still needs results, and he needs to prove to INEOS that the system/idea he has is worth investing hundreds of millions into, in this league especially. The idea that he doesn't have to work with what he's got somewhat doesn't make any sense. No club operates in this way, nevermind the elite clubs.
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I don’t understand this “stick with the manager no matter what” sentiment. People wanted ETH out all last season and we finished 8th. There’s some amount of mental gymnastics going on to convince themselves that anything above relegation is a win!!! Like WTF.

For me , the ONLY acceptable way he keeps ploughing on doing his thing (in spite of results) is if by feb things start to look better. Not because I will be saying he should be sacked but this is the real world. Results matter.

You can’t expect the INEOs to take a “this is fine” approach to United potentially going down cause literally no club does that. No matter how bad things got, we weren’t even in lower half of table , let alone potential relegation candidates. This isn’t a squad whose limit is battling relegation; so I don’t subscribe to the idea that Amorim can only do what he’s doing.

I want Amorim around next season, I don’t think we are seeing his best or what he can do. But I don’t think he will last the season if results don’t improve. I don’t think INEOs would be considered wise to keep him on , if the manager is still losing most games by March because football clubs don’t blindly follow managers to relegation.

He needs help. The club needs to make some signings. I think there might be some movement for him in January.
 
Shouldn’t be pairing those midfielders together after x weeks at the club. Needs to stay away from relegation til the summer. Needs to get rashers out and his influence over the squad asap. Needs at least one player in capable of playing his way ideally 2/3 in the next month.
 
We keep trying to put the blame on one thing.
It is the players
It is the set up
It is the coach
It is the injuries
It is Inios

When the simple truth is that it is a bit of everything.
Amorim has been head hunted because of his success with Sporting.
And he has come here to implement that style of play.
But it is pretty clear that, with the current squad, that is not working.

He wants wingers and full backs to play wing back.
He wants to play with 3 at the back.
He wants to play with 2 in midfield.

Nothing wrong with that.... apart from one thing. He doesn't have the players to execute that.
As a consequence, we are conceding too many goals.
We are not scoring.
And the bottom line is we are really easy to beat. Really easy.

So he either persists hoping that it will come good.
Or he faces the reality that something needs to change.

In my very humble opinion, he ought to set us up making us much more difficult to beat.
Definitely 3 in midfield.
Possibly 4 at the back.
Maybe even a 442.

And gradually bringing in the right players to suit his system.
 
peridigm said:
Fair points. We're basically in the same position we were in under ETH. Albeit, a better position in EL but out of the league cup. Not fussed about that.
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But we are now further away from the teams in the top 8 points wise, league position doesn't show the full picture.

When Amorim joined, the club was still in touching distance of the teams in the european places, we are now miles behind on points.
 
Butty19 said:
I think when Ineos/Berrada came in they said the starting point it is to have a style of play then build from there. The guy they have chosen to implement that style has barely had 2 months in charge, he hasn’t had a transfer window, made a signing or had an abundance of training sessions. Yet people are already shitting themselves because we’ve lost a few games. If you want the rainbow you have to put up with the rain.
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"Do you know who said that? Dolly Parton... And people say she's just a big pair of tits"
 
Buster15 said:
We keep trying to put the blame on one thing.
It is the players
It is the set up
It is the coach
It is the injuries
It is Inios

When the simple truth is that it is a bit of everything.
Amorim has been head hunted because of his success with Sporting.
And he has come here to implement that style of play.
But it is pretty clear that, with the current squad, that is not working.

He wants wingers and full backs to play wing back.
He wants to play with 3 at the back.
He wants to play with 2 in midfield.

Nothing wrong with that.... apart from one thing. He doesn't have the players to execute that.
As a consequence, we are conceding too many goals.
We are not scoring.
And the bottom line is we are really easy to beat. Really easy.

So he either persists hoping that it will come good.
Or he faces the reality that something needs to change.

In my very humble opinion, he ought to set us up making us much more difficult to beat.
Definitely 3 in midfield.
Possibly 4 at the back.
Maybe even a 442.

And gradually bringing in the right players to suit his system.
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I fear Amorim is a quality coach , who has been brought to a club that simply isn’t ready for a quality coach.

I really hope he can figure out some way to do his thing and hang in until summer while not getting us into a relagation battle and maybe a bit of a run in Europe.
 
AndyMUFC said:
It's been a tough run of games though, and you can't tell me we've not struggled in the types of games we're losing against for a long time now, no matter what system we've been playing or the players on the pitch. We won 2 out of the first 3 games under this manager and beat City, so hopefully the results will get better as the fixture list becomes a bit kinder.

Everything performance wise is very much the same, apart from the fact I feel like we're probably less likely to score with the Rashford and Garnacho situation, but that's not down to the system and we've been battered enough times with those two on the pitch.
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This is comfortably the worst we’ve looked, though. Even when Ruben came in he had wingers out wide and wanted to attack, this new idea of having Dalot and Maz out wide has made us a very poor team. Ten Hag damaged the club and built an average squad, but it is much better than we’re seeing now. It’s not really Amorim’s fault, this team doesn’t suit him, which makes you wonder why we brought him in half way through a season, knowing it will likely take another expensive rebuild to give him a team he can work with.
 
peridigm said:
Fair points. We're basically in the same position we were in under ETH. Albeit, a better position in EL but out of the league cup. Not fussed about that.
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Sadly we aren’t, we were averaging a dog shit 52 point season pre-Amorim. Right now we’re averaging less than a point per game and possibly being pulled into a relegation battle.
He was brought mid season to save this season, he’s failed at that, so he needs to make sure he keeps his job and doesn’t end up in relegation trouble.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
I fear Amorim is a quality coach , who has been brought to a club that simply isn’t ready for a quality coach.

I really hope he can figure out some way to do his thing and hang in until summer while not getting us into a relagation battle and maybe a bit of a run in Europe.
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Yes that is very fair.
 
Buster15 said:
We keep trying to put the blame on one thing.
It is the players
It is the set up
It is the coach
It is the injuries
It is Inios

When the simple truth is that it is a bit of everything.
Amorim has been head hunted because of his success with Sporting.
And he has come here to implement that style of play.
But it is pretty clear that, with the current squad, that is not working.

He wants wingers and full backs to play wing back.
He wants to play with 3 at the back.
He wants to play with 2 in midfield.

Nothing wrong with that.... apart from one thing. He doesn't have the players to execute that.
As a consequence, we are conceding too many goals.
We are not scoring.
And the bottom line is we are really easy to beat. Really easy.

So he either persists hoping that it will come good.
Or he faces the reality that something needs to change.

In my very humble opinion, he ought to set us up making us much more difficult to beat.
Definitely 3 in midfield.
Possibly 4 at the back.
Maybe even a 442.

And gradually bringing in the right players to suit his system.
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He did that the start, back 3 on the ball, 4-4-2 off it. Giving away very little in open play but we kept conceding stupid goals and set pieces though. The confidence has dropped since the Bournemouth game and we’ve been shocking since.
 
Shark said:
This is all well and good, and for the most part I agree, but what if we continue losing games every week home and away? He still needs results, and he needs to prove to INEOS that the system/idea he has is worth investing hundreds of millions into, in this league especially. The idea that he doesn't have to work with what he's got somewhat doesn't make any sense. No club operates in this way, nevermind the elite clubs.
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In recent games we have faced teams that are are playing to, or very close to, their absolute peak, in Forest, Bournemouth and Newcastle. Wolves was about 50/50 until Bruno got sent off. I don't think Amorims system was the reason for these losses. Remember some of the awful mistakes that led to the goals we conceded. Are they because of system?

He clearly has to work with what he has. We may, just may, be able to bring in a couple in Jan and get rid of some of the highly paid dross that we have in our squad.

But for me, his long term plan is to play his way. If he finishes 17th and learns that he can move forward with 3, 4 or 5 of these current players in his system and formation, than for me, then something has been achieved.

If he reverts to Ten Hags ad hoc football in a 433 / 4231 and finishes 8th, then what has he really learned?

In January and February, he may actually get some time on the training ground with them and we start to see a little improvement. Very hard to instill much when there are games every few days.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
But we are now further away from the teams in the top 8 points wise, league position doesn't show the full picture.

When Amorim joined, the club was still in touching distance of the teams in the european places, we are now miles behind on points.
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Top whatever always gets inserted when discussing United these days. We used to only talk about top 4. Then City came on the seen and had to be included. Then it became top 6 so we were not left out. Now we're finishing 6-8th in recent seasons so we stretch it even more? We were never going to finish in a European spot with the start we've had this season. When I say we're where we were under ETH, I'm referring to bottom half. That's our reality right now.
 
Still fully backing him, but there is a difference between sticking with a style of play and making the wrong team selections.

Starting a midfield of Casemiro and Eriksen against Newcastle was always going to end in disaster.

2-0 down and Dalot finishing the game instead of two attacking wingbacks was another strange one.

Feels like Martinez makes an error every game he plays, yet he still starts.
 
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Butty19 said:
I think when Ineos/Berrada came in they said the starting point it is to have a style of play then build from there. The guy they have chosen to implement that style has barely had 2 months in charge, he hasn’t had a transfer window, made a signing or had an abundance of training sessions. Yet people are already shitting themselves because we’ve lost a few games. If you want the rainbow you have to put up with the rain.
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If that was the case, why did they spend so much money in the summer to support a manager on borrowed time, and who mostly don't improve the team in this system. If they had waited until we had determined the new style we could have bought two wing backs instead of zirkzee and yoro or de ligt

The thinking on style of play also doesn't appear to be any deeper than looking at a hot managerial prospect and plumping for him

Coming up with a club model should have been ashworths job, now it's left with the overpromoted wilcox and a bunch of moneymen
 
AndySmith1990 said:
It's probably this attitude that has partly led us to where we are today.

Ralf was dismissed by fans as knowing nothing because results were shit. But results were shit because the players gave up. Yet we let the players off the hook and pile all blame on Rangnick? He literally warned us all about the problems we faced, but he was ignored and then also dismissed by Ten Hag, who faced the very problems we already knew about.

Not only have we been making mistakes for 11 years, but we don't even learn from the mistakes. It's incredible to watch
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The players are almost entirely different from those we had under Rangnick. Maguire and Dalot were the only players who started yesterday who played under him. We cannot keep suggesting that every set of players we purchase are somehow all “wrong uns”.

It’s on Amorim here to work with what he’s got and I trust that the players will do the best they can.
 
We’re desperate for points. I won’t mind finishing 10th this season aslong as we win the Europa league. CL football is crucial in helping us develop next season.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
I fear Amorim is a quality coach , who has been brought to a club that simply isn’t ready for a quality coach.

I really hope he can figure out some way to do his thing and hang in until summer while not getting us into a relagation battle and maybe a bit of a run in Europe.
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I would agree with this, the right coach at the absolute wrong time. I'm kind of pissed that we're putting a stain on his career when he's obviously not as bad as he looks right now, but it's a poor appointment given the state of the squad and it's specific needs.
 
How many who are criticizing Amorim was ready to give it to ETH till end of this season and then let Amorim take over ?

Or any care taker till summer ?

Who else do we want ? Supposed greatest coach of all time is in even more dire situation than Amorim.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Sadly we aren’t, we were averaging a dog shit 52 point season pre-Amorim. Right now we’re averaging less than a point per game and possibly being pulled into a relegation battle.
He was brought mid season to save this season, he’s failed at that, so he needs to make sure he keeps his job and doesn’t end up in relegation trouble.
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I don't think he was brought in to save this season though - given he actually wanted to join in the summer to avoid a difficult mid-season handover like this. If that is true then his appointment is short sighted and the owners will be to blame for what happens from hereon because he's clearly come in with a long term plan, and has himself said that there will be initial suffering. If he was brought in to "save this season" then he wouldn't be operating under the assumption that short term pain is expected.

Short term pain for long term gain is clearly the approach here, and I believe that Amorim will die on his sword if it comes to that. The appetite for how much short term pain will be tolerated by the club will be tested, and we don't know what that appetite is.
 
Westerkerk said:
I don't think he was brought in to save this season though - given he actually wanted to join in the summer to avoid a difficult mid-season handover like this. If that is true then his appointment is short sighted and the owners will be to blame for what happens from hereon because he's clearly come in with a long term plan, and has himself said that there will be initial suffering. If he was brought in to "save this season" then he wouldn't be operating under the assumption that short term pain is expected.

Short term pain for long term gain is clearly the approach here, and I believe that Amorim will die on his sword if it comes to that. The appetite for how much short term pain will be tolerated by the club will be tested, and we don't know what that appetite is.
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Thank you. Well said.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Sadly we aren’t, we were averaging a dog shit 52 point season pre-Amorim. Right now we’re averaging less than a point per game and possibly being pulled into a relegation battle.
He was brought mid season to save this season, he’s failed at that, so he needs to make sure he keeps his job and doesn’t end up in relegation trouble.
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He wasn’t, though. You’ve just made that up.
 
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