No the crazy thing is, nobody told you that 600m was a finished rebuild under Ten Hag, that's a false narrative.
That rebuild wasn't even halfway there.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
No the crazy thing is, nobody told you that 600m was a finished rebuild under Ten Hag, that's a false narrative.
That rebuild wasn't even halfway there.
It's not pragmatic though, because his system needs wingbacks to be effective. Actively choosing to use fullbacks, whilst keeping 3 CBs and wondering why our attack is shit - is a bit thick from him.
Can't disagree here, Anfield is not the place for such an experiment. Might consider having some more threat at RWB, but certainly not on Salah's side of the pitch
I shudder thinking about the team he'll name for this game
Yesterday we were playing Newcastle at home. He had plenty of evidence that the Dalot-Mazraoui combo makes us toothless and impotent. His line-up yesterday was cowardly, plain and simple.
I'm not even sure it matters all that much. Confidence is shot and unless we can conjure up some big time spirit fighting our nemesis, we'll go under
Fair enough. As long as games against Villa, Brighton and Spurs are considered easy fixtures against mid table teams that sit 9-11. Not to mention Wolves.
I shudder thinking about seeing Dalot at LWB again. Please let it end.
It was a 4231 not 433 and sometimes he adapted to 442 diamond
IMO smarter coach would have recognized it right away that you can’t cook with these players in any system and you will need an overhaul. What he should be doing is playing to their strengths in the short term to increase their sale valuation in the jan / summer in order to raise funds for your own vision given the tight financial situation we’re in. The current approach helps no one as in the market we will be taken advantage of whilst knowing that current lot (whole squad basically) is not part of your long term plans as such there’s little sense in trying to brute force your system into their heads since they simply won’t be here in a few months.
This, and it’s blowing my mind to see people defending it.
It’s even more bizarre when our fullbacks are proper defensive fullbacks too, it’s not like we have Patrice Evra or Trent playing there.
It shouldn't be an experiment though, he has played this system and knows what is required. It's not as if it's made us any more defensively solid so far - if anything it's made us look worse.
If this is correct, why change formation/tactics until you can have a good crack at the team ? Seems kamikaze stuff to hope the team will just play itself into form when you can’t even coach them.
Again not disagreeing, whatever the intention was it clearly hasn't worked. But do you really want to see a team devoid of any confidence field Antony, who hasn't played the position before, against Salah at Anfield?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to throw a kid like Amass in there and destroy his confidence, but this surely isn't the only option?
True, but I also don't want to see a team devoid of confidence, playing players who've shown to not be able to play the position, against Salah at Anfield! You have to make trade offs, I get it, this just seems like a very strange one to stick with.
Anyone playing 5 out and out defenders plus a defensive midfielder is being cowardly in my book, no amount of hysterical cafe defending of the new manager will change that.
To get away with these current tactics in the Prem you’d at the very least need 3 absolute World class players up top, we have Højlund, Zirk and Amad.
When I looked at Ruud’s team selection, I saw a decent side that I felt was balanced and could give most teams a decent game.
When I looked versus Wolves and last night, I feel I’m honestly looking at a relegation side that will be lucky to average more than 1 goal a game over a season.
If it is true that we can’t spend in January, we shouldn’t have gone for Ruben until the summer. Ruud had settled the team and we would’ve probably had an unremarkable but decent season under him. This new system, with no new players to suit it is a wasted venture. We have no players that suit as a wingback.
People can moan about team selections all they like but there's enough evidence to suggest we'll lose these sort of games whoever we play. I mean people bang on about a Casemiro and Eriksen midfield, and I get that it isn't ideal, but we just lost 3-0 to Bournemouth with Ugarte and Mainoo there regardless.
It genuinely doesn't matter because we're massively lacking physically and technically whoever we play. We've just got to ride this storm and hope performances get better as the fixtures get kinder.
It genuinely doesn't matter because we're massively lacking physically and technically whoever we play. We've just got to ride this storm and hope performances get better as the fixtures get kinder.
I think they wanted to avoid another Ole scenario if he were to do well there would be a clamour to keep him in the post.
On another note this from the BBC this morning
Asked by BBC Sport if United were in a battle to avoid the drop, Amorim said: "I think that it is a possibility. We have to be clear with our fans."
Christ on a bike
Great coaches adapt and know when to adapt.
If he can’t see this isn’t working and can’t figure out how to arrest the freefall then he’s not a top level manager.
I’ve been as bewitched by everyone else by his charisma, and he certainly ‘feels’ more like a United manager than many of the others we’ve had - but if he’s too stubborn to adapt to a new club and a new league and a new situation and is arrogant enough to believe his one system is so perfect it suits every eventuality then honestly we’re better off without.
First impressions are massive and if the first impression of him and his system in United colours are of failure then he will never turn it around, and huge damage will be done in the interim.
If the last ten years have taught me anything it’s to judge with your head not your heart and right now we look dog shit on the field, and a complete mess overall as a club.
If he can’t see this isn’t working and can’t figure out how to arrest the freefall then he’s not a top level manager.
I’ve been as bewitched by everyone else by his charisma, and he certainly ‘feels’ more like a United manager than many of the others we’ve had - but if he’s too stubborn to adapt to a new club and a new league and a new situation and is arrogant enough to believe his one system is so perfect it suits every eventuality then honestly we’re better off without.
First impressions are massive and if the first impression of him and his system in United colours are of failure then he will never turn it around, and huge damage will be done in the interim.
If the last ten years have taught me anything it’s to judge with your head not your heart and right now we look dog shit on the field, and a complete mess overall as a club.
This isn’t fully true though, under Ruud and even Ten Hag we got better results, this is somehow the worst we’ve been this season, due to the new system which we haven’t trained or prepared for.
Right....and if we'd only had 8 games in the same time period we'd of had more than 4 training sessions. It's simple math.
Wish people stopped the Ruud comparison. He played the easiest matches he could've hoped for, went with more of the same and got a tiny bit of a new manager bounce. We would've been off worse (in the EL for example) if we stayed with him
The moment he gets a wingback in it'll stop.
And to be fair Dalot did alright a couple of times last night. Put one on a plate for Maguire. Not convinced Antony would produce more. Rashford and Garnacho have had their arses kicked. Options are limited.
Agree Amad needs to be RWB for now but I think a manager has to get able to try something for a few games without being labelled a coward.
He's got some time now before the liverpool match ( 4 days exactly) to figure out something in training. Maybe this time he can try to shoehorn a left footed winger into the right wing back spot 
Dalot-Mazraoui as wing backs can not be it. We haven't scored a single goal with that combo, so we sure as feck won't at Anfield.
I'd honestly try Antony-Amad
Antony tracks back and is left footed and Amad has looked good when he has played RWB.
He needs to adapt his system to the player’s strengths until he has the requisite players for it. It’s a bit naive to try to fit his system on these players. Something needs to change fast otherwise he won’t have time to implement his system.
Both been having poor seasons yet still 3rd and 4th for goal contributions behind only amad and Bruno.
In a team that is struggling to make chances and score goals I think I would be looking at playing at least one or both of them ahead of Hojlund or zirkzee or one of the wingbacks.
He won’t be here this time next year. And not necessarily because he was sacked.
I feel bad for him. I don’t think he realised what he was getting into.
I feel bad for him. I don’t think he realised what he was getting into.
Just take a month off football if you are feeling bad atm. We have had 4 training sessions only, we will have more of them now as the fixture congestion gets better and we got to do some chill on-the-pitch work within the tactical nuances.
Simple math
Less games (1 a week, rather than 2) means there is much more time to implement a system rather than just maintaining & training for the next game.
It’s simple logic.
Changing style or idea is not pragmatism but giving up on why you were hired. Amorim has shown that he can be pragmatic in game but if people want him to give up on his style to appease the players for short term goal then we should have hired Ole back.
Not because he was sacked…. Ah the old give up and walk away thought process that no one in the real world actually thinks.
Good grief
Come on mate.
Ten Hag was sacked for his pragmatism and NOW you want pragmatism back?!
He doesn't come across as pragmatic in his interviews. He has his system and won't change it too much.
His character fits the type of manager we need. The things he's said in regards to fixing this team are true. He's looking beyond immediate results and wants to improve us long term. Isn't that what we all want? Aren't we all sick of going around in the same cycle of false dawns? Who gives a shit about some pointless manager bounce if we just slide into the same rut again in 12 months time?
feck this season off and let's see what he's made of after a summer of reshaping the team and having time to properly coach it.
feck this season off and let's see what he's made of after a summer of reshaping the team and having time to properly coach it.
Great coachen adapt.
Even the great Sir Alex did.IIRC When mourinho came to England with 433/4231,sir Alex had to switch from 442 to 433 to counter the numerical disadvantage of the 442 System in midfield.
He can only work with what he has, he should be smart enough to win enough matches till the end of the season.
He appears dogmatic,I have never seen him sub one of the 3 cbs for an attacker when we are chasing games.
If he us not careful he will be another AVB
Even the great Sir Alex did.IIRC When mourinho came to England with 433/4231,sir Alex had to switch from 442 to 433 to counter the numerical disadvantage of the 442 System in midfield.
He can only work with what he has, he should be smart enough to win enough matches till the end of the season.
He appears dogmatic,I have never seen him sub one of the 3 cbs for an attacker when we are chasing games.
If he us not careful he will be another AVB
This is the bit that worries me about him - what's wrong with trying our wingers at WB? Is he worried about the defensive frailties of our back 3? We're not expecting him to drop his style of football completely but he's made a lot of naive decisions I think