The only thing stopping it would be a magical discovery of form. We have half a season to figure it out and get to 40 points, but if this were, say, Game Week 28, we’d surely be going down. People are overloading the miracle wagon thinking several of Rashford, Garnacho, Amad, Højlund, are going to stumble into a patch of goals whilst at the same time our defense remembers that whole thing about jumping no longer being illegal.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
No, he's not acting irrationally.
Im hoping not. Wilcox, Berrada and Vivell should be experienced and hopefully wont get fleeced. Lets see though.
Well, Conte and Tuchel have been successful virtually everywhere they've gone. Conte has won league titles with the clubs you would expect him to, and currently has Napoli joint 1st. Tuchel arguably overachieved with Chelsea during the height of the Liverpool- City rivalry. Nagelsmann has probably flattered to deceive more often than the others but is still one of the top managerial prospects in the game.
It's not "sustained" success in the sense of Pep and Klopp because they've not stayed at clubs for the length of time those managers have. But that's not down to tactics in my opinion, that's more in-line with modern football culture. Finding managers that stick at one club for nearly a decade is increasingly unlikely.
Where I do think there's an argument against 343 (or whatever shape 3 at the back takes) here is simply due to the level of the players we have. We can't score goals or keep clean sheets playing this way, and that only leads to one outcome. Amorim needs to stop being so naive and swallow some pride for the time being. It's right we play his way down the line but these lot can barely manage 442. It's a truly terrible squad.
I thought the opposite after the Zirkzee sub last night. He left out Mainoo, who has been in very poor form, but he made a huge difference when he came on. I liked how he made a decision early and changed things.
He has been brought in for his style of play, he would have told the higher ups that he sticks to this no matter what and they would have agreed.
The problem is not Amorim, he sets the team up and gives them a plan. The players have to stick to it.
You can see his frustration in plain sight, the players are not doing what he wants and also utterly failing to do the basics correctly, like pass a ball...
Any coach or manager coming here would have the same issues, the same toxic rubbish to deal with. Too many people with experience in the game have commented, directly or indirectly what the problems are.
Some individuals need to go, we all know who and once this happens the HEALING process can start.
We are exactly where we deserve to be right now, we get beat because other teams play better and want it more, that last point is pretty important.
The problem is not Amorim, he sets the team up and gives them a plan. The players have to stick to it.
You can see his frustration in plain sight, the players are not doing what he wants and also utterly failing to do the basics correctly, like pass a ball...
Any coach or manager coming here would have the same issues, the same toxic rubbish to deal with. Too many people with experience in the game have commented, directly or indirectly what the problems are.
Some individuals need to go, we all know who and once this happens the HEALING process can start.
We are exactly where we deserve to be right now, we get beat because other teams play better and want it more, that last point is pretty important.
It’s not surprising we instantly looked more competent in the midfield area once Mainoo was subbed in then we at least matched Newcastle on numbers (less so on legs / quality) but we ended up hooking a striker meaning we essentially play one extra defender in place of an attacking player which will obviously lead to a real struggle offensively no matter how good of the players we have in the team.
Even if we manage to negotiate good fees, we basically need to replace almost entire squad before we can challenge for titles. We maybe have 2-3 players that could play a role in a successful team, that's still going to be a huge outlay before we get there.
However, we should already be decent/good with 3-4 crucial signings - basically a couple of full backs, a midfielder and a proper striker and things should start taking shape. As hopeless as our defenders have been, we have to be able to put something together there with the talent of de Ligt, Maguire, Mazraoui and Yoro.
I agree we are off a title challenge by a couple of big windows, but in one major summer we can bring in a LWB, Striker, CM and 10,Or at least 3 of those positions, and it should be transformative.
Oh right...I didn't realise beating us was worth 30 points
As much as we are the worst team in the league right now, I think the whole mess is addressable with a couple of good signings, guys with strong characters who galvanise other people around them.
Amorim surely is a good coach but if you bring him in he needs the chance to get the right players for his system. He took over mid-season and tries to find out which players of the current squad could be good enough for his ideas. While long-term this total reset (if we really see it) might be a good thing but the PL is so unforgiving that his stubbornness gets us into short-term trouble.
The idea probably was that the season has anyway already been a write-off in November and Amorim gets a lot of time to lay the basis for his ideas and has 2 transfer windows to transform the squad. However, we are getting in big trouble so we need to get some results.
Anfield has the potential to become another massive pummeling.
The idea probably was that the season has anyway already been a write-off in November and Amorim gets a lot of time to lay the basis for his ideas and has 2 transfer windows to transform the squad. However, we are getting in big trouble so we need to get some results.
Anfield has the potential to become another massive pummeling.
In a setting the building on fire and then calling the fire department sort of way.
You knew very well that these were not their positions when they played us. Why make up stuff?
If we're within 3 points of relegation with 6 games to go, then I'll be concerned.
Right now, I consider the prospect of relegation so wildly unlikely that it has no bearing on my thinking.
But that's a ridiculous argument. Your point is "they're only high up the table because they win games"
The midfield of Casemiro and Eriksen was a mistake, but his hands were really tied with his options there. No Ugarte, no Bruno, Mainoo playing an absolute stinker in his last game. What would he have been able to do if he went with Casemiro and Mainoo and we still concede 2 or 3 goals in that first half? He would have nowhere to go then.
We've known for a while that Zirkzee can't play the role up top in a way that we need, but there have been question marks about him playing behind the striker, which would give us some usage for him. Fans have also been asking for this. He tried it, and changed it when it didn't work. The options available to him are very limited and very poor. The building was already on fire before he even got there.
If we continue this sort of form for the rest of the season, we will seriously be in a relegation scrap.
We all know the players are shite, but he needs to find a way to stop losing so many games with these players. What was he thinking playing Casemiro & Eriksen together? It was obvious what the outcome would be. He needs to adapt, or we might be looking for a new manager in March/April to keep us in the league.
What a truly pathetic crop of players we have. They should be ashamed.
We all know the players are shite, but he needs to find a way to stop losing so many games with these players. What was he thinking playing Casemiro & Eriksen together? It was obvious what the outcome would be. He needs to adapt, or we might be looking for a new manager in March/April to keep us in the league.
What a truly pathetic crop of players we have. They should be ashamed.
As I said you were way more wound up than me mate
Doesn’t matter how many green smilies you use (literally in every post trying to persuade the cafe you weren’t wound up as feck), you broke caf rules and named called two posters in a matter of seconds because you were clearly wound up.
That set up was beyond delusional, especially as he’s had 11 games to see what this bunch is like.
Antony’s work rate makes him a stand out candidate and our best performances under the new manager were with Amad there.
No. The context is that you called these games difficult fixtures because Forest are 3rd (effectively, assuming Arsenal win the next game), Bournemouth are 6th (actually 7th) and Newcastle are 5th, today.
I'm pointing that they weren't in these positions when we played them. We had every chance to be above at least Bournemouth by now.
Actually we do have to think like that at work all the time. I work for a company who sell high value solutions with a long and complex sales cycle. If we judged salespeople only on their results, we'd fire 99% of them after 12-months.
Amorim came into a situation that everybody, and I mean everybody (it was unanimous) agreed was almost impossible. I haven't given him a free pass, check my posts. I have been critical of his team selection and his substitutions.
What I won't be critical of, until this time next year, are his system or his coaching ability - because there's simply absolutely no meaningful Data / evidence to assess either on.
He gets a final "free pass" against the dippers on Sunday, as they would beat us anyway. But after that, at least in the league, results will have to pick up. If not, he might be toast around Feb. I hear Sporting is looking for a coach...
You think he can turn Antony into Trent or Carlos?
No, but I think we’ll likely be a lot less toothless with wingers as wingbacks rather than than defenders.
I wouldn’t mind if we were solid as feck at the back with these players, but we’re anything but.
The league position is laughable but fast forward a month, no European football or FA Cup, and then fast forward to next season even less games all together means only a small squad required.
Amorim and INEOS should be planning for next season. Ignore the drama and media circus, it’s all just entertainment at the end of the day.
Amorim and INEOS should be planning for next season. Ignore the drama and media circus, it’s all just entertainment at the end of the day.
But we're at the midpoint of the season, not a few games in. Everybody has played everybody once. Your position in the table is a reflection of all of your performances and results to this point - not one game against us
The fact is, I think everyone attempting to argue with me here actually agrees that we simply cannot continue playing 3 CBs and two fullbacks so the debate is a little bizarre.
People are attempting to remove blame from the manager whilst they also agree we need to change the wingbacks.
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with the idea of using wingers rather than fullbacks.
More you calling the manager a coward.
An Anfield would you want Garnacho or Rashford at LWB against Salah. Or to try Antony there for the first time?
I don’t think its cowardice to think not. Overly pragmatic maybe.
Agreed, as soon as I saw the line up, it was obvious that we were going to have a problem against a midfield of Bruno G and Joelinton.
Starting Casemiro and Eriksen midfield with Zirkzee and Amad in front of them is all on him obviously. We were better from 35th minute when sub was made.
We wouldn’t be having results this bad if we stuck with 4-2-3-1. Hopefully there will be a long term gain because as much as I expected us to struggle, you’d think we’d at least win every other game, not lose 4 in a row. It could be 6 in a row counting Spurs and then Arsenal in the Fa Cup.
He’s got trust from the club and the fans but 2nd half of the season will have to get (at least slightly) better.
We wouldn’t be having results this bad if we stuck with 4-2-3-1. Hopefully there will be a long term gain because as much as I expected us to struggle, you’d think we’d at least win every other game, not lose 4 in a row. It could be 6 in a row counting Spurs and then Arsenal in the Fa Cup.
He’s got trust from the club and the fans but 2nd half of the season will have to get (at least slightly) better.
That depends on how you look at it. Do you want one of the most exciting managers in the world who requires a squad overhaul or do you want to try and find a manager that can get a tune out of your mess of a squad assembled poorly and hope that somehow that works a miracle.
Like it or not, to be winning the PL and other competitions these days you need exceptional players and an brilliant manager. Who would we have got that did anything more than OK with this set of players. Its fundamentally a mess of a squad with numerous issues. The goals come largely from our wingers, one of which barely seem to care about football and the other was going down the standard United path of being overhyped and indulged to the detriment of building a team.
When was the last time we had a functioning squad at United? You know, where everything works in unison. Where the forwards work and play for each other and help the midfield. Where we aren't relying of little moments of brilliance and outside of that we beat teams because we just have far better players than them.
The sporting hierarchy has been there for very little time and I am more than happy to back Amorim for a few seasons. My only fear is that if it doesn't workout we have another team that is very specialised and limits the pool of managers that would come in and hit the ground running.
He will be given the season and a summer as long as we aren't actually likely to get relegated.
This was always what a Ten Hag team looked like, that's why he indulged Bruno, Garnacho and Rashford because they could always buy him an undeserved goal. We are blaming the system but where are the basics like simple 5 yard passes, contesting for 2nd balls and challenging crosses? These point to a rotten and unfocused dressing room.
Someone can come in, do an Ole and play to their strengths but we will be back here the moment more is demanded. How long should we stay a counter attacking team whilst teams spending less than us can build sustainable systems?
Another thing is you are all sanitizing individual errors that should be unacceptable at this level. Onana letting a direct corner in, Maz giving away a silly penalty right after half time when we are already a goal down, consistently failing to score gilt edged chances and failing to string five passes together or a striker failing to make the ball stick at this level, Garnacho ignoring team mates for simple passes and people losing their shit when the manager takes corrective action.
Where else are things like these accepted and this is possibly the best paid squad in the world.
Now I am not saying Amorim is infallible but he is a new guy and is possibly shocked at the depths some of these players are able to shamelessly sink to. He will learn, I'm sure he now regrets trusting a lot in this bunch but in a rut like this he can't exactly go to Anfield and field Collyer and Amass, can he?
No the crazy thing is, nobody told you that 600m was a finished rebuild under Ten Hag, that's a false narrative.
That rebuild wasn't even halfway there.
It's not pragmatic though, because his system needs wingbacks to be effective. Actively choosing to use fullbacks, whilst keeping 3 CBs and wondering why our attack is shit - is a bit thick from him.
Can't disagree here, Anfield is not the place for such an experiment. Might consider having some more threat at RWB, but certainly not on Salah's side of the pitch
I shudder thinking about the team he'll name for this game
Yesterday we were playing Newcastle at home. He had plenty of evidence that the Dalot-Mazraoui combo makes us toothless and impotent. His line-up yesterday was cowardly, plain and simple.