Interesting that you're saying I broke rules considering I got no warnings for them, but anyway you do you. And here's a couple of extra smilies just for you
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Listen his first ever interview where he said that it's less dangerous to use natural defenders at the wings, than wingers at start - because teaching wingers to defend at these positions takes more time than to teach defenders the attacking freedom. Our "wingers" are very bad at defending mostly, so they can't be trusted there yet.
My concern is that more he continues on his do-or-die path, the worse our rut will become. A few small adjustments to help the players adapt quicker would go a long way imho.
Keep the formation, but pick more suitable players for the positions. Stuff like that
ok, that makes a bit of sense.
Time to admit we made a mistake and sack him and go back to 4-3-3 with Ole till the end of the season?
Ten Hag wasn't pragmatic. He choosed to play without midfield since the end of his 1st season here.
Which was really feckin weird because one of his best qualities in 1st season and the reason we did alright, even had a good season was being pragmatic. He changed the team and approach after that 4-0 Brentford game and start hitting teams on the counter. Especially against best teams while trying to dominate the lesser ones.
For some reason, he went all in with transition football and zero control on the pitch which cost him his job.
Exactly, if anything Amorim seems to be making the same sort of mistakes, which is the more worrying point.
Why? Hes not the problem. Even a 433 with this squad has a low ceiling. We should back him on his system in the summer and give a whole pre season to instil his methods.
Apparently this is the first time he actually has a full week of training with the entire squad? Thats mental.
Something is definitely not adding up here, we taken probably the most sort after young manager in Europe, and given him a squad that he & Berrada will have known was really low on quality and already really struggling with a setup that suited them more, and was always likely to struggle even more in Amorim's fixed system, and he will almost certainly have known there was nothing to spend in January before he came.
He surely must have been sold something big to leave Sporting and take on that sort impossible task on for this season, which makes me think something is going to happen with ownership again in the near future.
He surely must have been sold something big to leave Sporting and take on that sort impossible task on for this season, which makes me think something is going to happen with ownership again in the near future.
You’re probably right, but they’re the ones making the decision, and if Ruud did so well for what would’ve been well over half a season he might’ve been worth sticking with anyway. Ruben is right, relegation is a possibility, if we stick with this squad that doesn’t suit his style, it becomes a greater possibility with every passing match.
I'd actually be more disappointed if he reverted back to 4231/433 with same/similar tactics as we had for years than I'd be if we ended up 16th. I'd basically lose all hope in him if he were to do that.
He was given no choice though, he said himself his preference was to move in July but he was told that it's either now or never. No manager is going to turn down the opportunity to manage a huge club.
So basically he's choosing to heavily rotate the squad and rest players from subsequent sessions to keep everyone fit... then complaining on the back of it that he hasn't had enough time to train with the whole squad.
It's never a good look in a professional environment to start making excuses about the consequences from a course of action that you specifically decided on.
I agree, the moment he abandons his system he's done anyway, may as well just leave at that point. I don't think he will though.
It will click, eventually. The problem obviously is the total lack of confidence in the squad. They're so broken they're prone to panic and mistakes and don't believe it will get better.
It's not really relevant whether we've been entirely dominated or not if we're being soundly beaten in more games than we're winning, especially games at home.
Admittedly Bournemouth and Forest are having an exceptional season. We've still be beaten by Newcastle, Wolves and a poor and depleted Tottenham side recently as well. Not looking great at all, there are no prizes for just being competitive in parts of games.
I hear your point but the issue is if he tries to play according to the strength of players , he will struggle next season. Better to see who fits in his profile than looking for short term results.
I will continue to maintain this is one of the most poorly assembled squad we have ever had. Our strikers are poor, our midfield minus Ugarte needs wholesale changes. Our fullbacks are mostly not good enough irrespective of what shape you play. Our wingers the same. You can play 4 42 or 4 2 31 and you may get some short term success but then we will be back to the same. I rather amorim stick to his principles than accommodate at this stage
It” an outrageous call to sack him.What would we do if we did, bring in another manager/coach with new systems and ideas.We need to stick with him, he is going to need time.Let us see what happens in January and then in the summer transfer windows.Give him a full pre season with the players and then let us see what next season brings us.I am as pissed of as the rest of you but sacking him is not the answer.
I wasn't serious it would be ridiculous to sack him now... But Madrid would have probably sacked him because losing 6 times in one month just isn't acceptable for a club of Madrid/United's size and ambitions
I genuinely don't know what to think at the minute.
You're probably right - we just need a win or two to stop this rot. We probably won't get relegated but I can't be logical about it until we've picked up enough points to get to 11th/10th.
I'm not so sure, you don't take on the United job with a squad like this whilst been told there's hardly any money to change it.
And he turns it down, who do we get? Whoever took it on at that stage of the season was on hiding to nothing without proper investment in the short term, so the fact we attracted Amorim still gives me hope.
This man surely does do the talk. I was disappointed about the result and the performance yesterday until I heard his post-match press conference. He was bang on in saying that he needs to implement his style of play and take the pain that comes doing that. There would be the point of going back to the style of football that got the previous manager sacked. If it was working, what was the point in changing the manager.
We hired him because we wanted change; now to panic after 11-12 games and revert back to the same shit would be pointless. Amo is ready to live or die by his principles and we need to let him do it. There is no point chasing short term results and repeating the same shit cycle again. If he is good enough, he'll be able to turn it around. If he is not, then we can move him on and get someone else in at the end of the season.
The squad is not optimum but I am also of the belief that it is still good enough for a top 4/5 spot in a normal season. This idea that we need to spend another half a billion before we can question him or ask for improvement is preposterous. He needs to do better with these players both in terms of performances and results before we open the checkbook for him. We put on some improved displays in the initial few games but since the Arsenal game, where we went ultra-defensive, the performances haven't been good enough. Starting with five defenders has made us toothless in attack without much improvement on the defensive side. He need to go back to playing one of the attacking players as a RWB and make us more threatening.
For me the season starts on Jan 16th. By then he would have been in the job for more than 2 months, have had time on the training pitch to implement his ideas as we have only two games in the next 16 days, we have some easy games coming up which should help build some momentum, he would have full knowledge of the abilities of the players at his disposal and the schedule will ease up with us hopefully only competing in two competitions (PL and Europa) for the rest of the season and he would have hopefully added a LWB and a replacement for Rashford to the mix.
Until then, hold on folks.
PS: Premier league results so far: P8 W2 L5 D1 GF9 GA14 GD(-)5....We haven't scored in 4 of the 8 fixtures.
We hired him because we wanted change; now to panic after 11-12 games and revert back to the same shit would be pointless. Amo is ready to live or die by his principles and we need to let him do it. There is no point chasing short term results and repeating the same shit cycle again. If he is good enough, he'll be able to turn it around. If he is not, then we can move him on and get someone else in at the end of the season.
The squad is not optimum but I am also of the belief that it is still good enough for a top 4/5 spot in a normal season. This idea that we need to spend another half a billion before we can question him or ask for improvement is preposterous. He needs to do better with these players both in terms of performances and results before we open the checkbook for him. We put on some improved displays in the initial few games but since the Arsenal game, where we went ultra-defensive, the performances haven't been good enough. Starting with five defenders has made us toothless in attack without much improvement on the defensive side. He need to go back to playing one of the attacking players as a RWB and make us more threatening.
For me the season starts on Jan 16th. By then he would have been in the job for more than 2 months, have had time on the training pitch to implement his ideas as we have only two games in the next 16 days, we have some easy games coming up which should help build some momentum, he would have full knowledge of the abilities of the players at his disposal and the schedule will ease up with us hopefully only competing in two competitions (PL and Europa) for the rest of the season and he would have hopefully added a LWB and a replacement for Rashford to the mix.
Until then, hold on folks.
PS: Premier league results so far: P8 W2 L5 D1 GF9 GA14 GD(-)5....We haven't scored in 4 of the 8 fixtures.
I guess it's a win/win for him. If he succeeds and brings man united back to the summit of English football he'll go down as a legend
If he fails then so what? It's a poisoned chalice and he was doomed to fail like all the others before him and he can just go back to Sporting with his tasty severance package and continue winning titles and building his reputation back
No, a 4231 is a formation, not a system.
For me, you can’t call what United were playing under Ten Hag a system. There was never any repeatable patterns of play or ways we would build up from the back to create chances. We played ad hoc football and relied on individuals having moments. 2.5 years and most would struggle to describe what Ten Hag ball was.
Ten Hag did have a system but he ditched it several times. And where did that get him?
Amorim is trying to in-still a system that just so happens to mean the players line up in a different formation. As we saw last night, some of these players struggle with the mere basics. Some can’t pass, some can’t jump for headers, some have no legs and others can’t hold the ball up. Any system or formation would be a struggle.
Interesting that you're saying I broke rules considering I got no warnings for them, but anyway you do you. And here's a couple of extra smilies just for you
I wouldn’t report anyone, that’s why you got no warnings, but I can if you wanna test how it works? I mean, you twice insulted the poster and you by now obviously know the rules…
Insult the post, not the poster.
But I get it, you got really wound up by the coward comment, it happens.
Isn’t that exactly the issue? We’re not solid at the back. Our set piece defence is horrible. Now imagine that defence without Dalot and Maz but with Antony and Amad trying to win headers in there instead?
We aren't solid at the back, or good at defending set pieces with the current fullbacks anyway. We also look absolutely toothless going forward. He needs to change things, but it's probably not wise to go for wingers in the wide positions in the next two games. I am already having nightmares of Salah facing up Martinez.
Against smaller teams we should be willing to give it a try, or at least put one of them in as a WB. I know Amorim prefers to teach FBs to attack more rather than wingers to defend more, but doing it for one game might give us confidence. If we don't stick Amad in at RWB long term, where does he fit? I'm not sure he's fit for a 10 or 9 role in this system.
The biggest issue is that we kept Ten Hag in the summer and spent over 200million on signings for him.
We brought a manager in giving him an ultimatum to join us "now or never" knowing what his style of play is and wanting him to implement this on a team that has been set up to play one way for the last 2 years (and some are unable to play this way )midway through the season, in the busiest fixture period of the year leaving him not much time to work with the players and also with no transfer budget in January. He's set up to fail.
I feel that we have to stick with him. The next 2 games are going to be extremely painful, however after that the fixtures get a little better. We'll have to see what happens then. He needs some time.
We brought a manager in giving him an ultimatum to join us "now or never" knowing what his style of play is and wanting him to implement this on a team that has been set up to play one way for the last 2 years (and some are unable to play this way )midway through the season, in the busiest fixture period of the year leaving him not much time to work with the players and also with no transfer budget in January. He's set up to fail.
I feel that we have to stick with him. The next 2 games are going to be extremely painful, however after that the fixtures get a little better. We'll have to see what happens then. He needs some time.
Hopefully we bring in a player or two in January. Start the rebuild early.
I’m so tired of these rebuilds.
Simple math
Less games (1 a week, rather than 2) means there is much more time to implement a system rather than just maintaining & training for the next game.
It’s simple logic.
Not sure what you are trying to point out here....
You think it can be worse?
It’s fecking horrible, and we’re absolutely horrible now going forward as we literally have just 3 non-defensive players outfield.
Exactly. The club have hired Amorim because they want him to come in and implement his system.
If you want a manager that is just going to adapt his style and ethos to this garbage bunch of players then just keep Ten Hag, or even just go without one because this lot played off the cuff football anyway. We would just continue to finish upper mid table. The only way that we’re gonna compete at the top is to rip the band-aid off and expose the wound. And that means Amorim will get to find out which players he can take forward on which will have to be got rid of.
There is not one single player in this squad good enough that you could confidently say we should build a team around. The hierarchy know that the majority of them need replacing and it’s just going to take time.
And if he was training the shit out of everyone so we picked up a load of injuries, what sort of progress would that be? You'd complain about that.
Nar, we bought two centre backs, which is clearly required for Amorim’s system, and we bought an Amorim favourite in Ugarte.
Ten Hag didn’t like Ugarte much and he certainly didn’t need two new CB’s for his system so I struggle to think these signings were with him in mind.
Every rebuild should be based around creating a strong and dominant central midfield. How we have neglected this area for so long is wild.
Even the idea of Zirkzee makes more sense for Amorim than ETH, even if it's not working out
The club didn't hire him.. Ashworth the sporing director was against it but it was Ratcliffe and Berarda who hire him. So this is on Ratcliffe and Berarda who as of now have show nothing to warrant any positive feeling towards them
He literally explained the position on his first day.
Squad rotation for freshness/ injury prevention. The team that plays rests, the squad trains and are rotated in and so on.
If the same team plays you get more injuries and exhaustion and the 'better players' get less training too..
The fact is that he can't invent days for training without risk of burnout and injuries and rotation is problematic for its own reason.
The issue is that the squad is not currently at the required level ( in any formation) but by imposing his style he can see who might be adaptable and who is no longer required.
I agree, we need a total reset which takes a lot of time unfortunately and not the same shit as last years where we scraped some wins and trophies but were awful and never looked like we were getting any better.
I think less is more in some regards, piling big six foot pluses into the six yard area causes more problems than it solves more often than not, noone takes responsibility nor can move to get a run on it.
The fact is we haven't scored any open play goals while playing with two full backs as wing backs, I'm all for making a team solid but if it's at the expense of actually scoring goals that it isn't worth, especially considering it isn't making the team solid anyway.