Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Amorim was playing to lose with such tactics and players. He is not very pragmatic. He has lofty dreams but not sure if the current crop of players can play what he wants.

At least for ETH, you can tell that he was trying to win matches. He lost out because he kept buying the wrong players but at least ETH was pragmatic and he got further in cup competitions.
 
The Urban Goose said:
Chelsea and Arsenal have both shown it's possible to reboot a squad over one summer. Besides, we don't need to sell 7-8 players (as there are five contracts expiring next summer anyway), we just need to sell 3-4, which is perfectly doable.

Maguire, Lindelof and Eriksen are all expiring next summer, so that's circa £26m/year off the wage bill already.

Then get rid of Rashford, Casemiro, Dalot, Garnacho and Shaw and that's circa £120m in sales and £52m/year salary brought in.

That allows up to circa £500m purchases amortised over 5 year contracts and £1.5m/week salaries available. That easily translates into circa 7 x £70m players on £200k/week each. That would absolutely transform this squad.
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Come on lad, who’s going to buy Shaw? Dalot maybe but his stock isn’t high. Garnacho’s price is dropping weekly and Rashford and Casemiro won’t be sold as no one will touch their wages. Saudi our only hope but the money has dried up for big signings.
If we sell one player (most likely Garnacho) I’d be amazed.
 
soapythecat said:
He has said numerous times, including g in last nights post match, that this is his system and he will stick with it as he knows no other. We are not going to a back 4 so people need to stop going on about it. It will work or we go down - one or the other.
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This logic is absurd. If his tactics are taking us down and he’s refusing to change them, he’s the most incompetent coach in history. Of course it can get so bad that he must change. I think we’re there.
 
marx_2 said:
A left wing back? That would be a terrible decision. Luke Shaw is a world class left back. A good manager looks at a squad’s top players and build forth on them. Amorim is clueless. He is another manager who makes his players worse by making them feel inadequate.
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Fantastic. We must have been getting really good production from left back in the last two seasons.
 
Jev said:
This logic is absurd. If his tactics are taking us down and he’s refusing to change them, he’s the most incompetent coach in history. Of course it can get so bad that he must change. I think we’re there.
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Watch last nights post match interview - he’s not changing it and he said he’d stick with it to the end.
 
The weird thing is these players are flailing at the basics. It’s not some complicated shit they can’t wrap their tiny little brains around. Not remembering how to pass a football when you are in the best league in the world is shocking. Not jumping for a ball in your own box - I mean, what the feck is that? It’s for nothing to do with wingbacks and everything to do with these players having football amnesia.

11 randos in the park on a Sunday would come up with a plan how to play, but it’s like Amorim has tried to change they way they breathe (which he hasn’t). How close is he to losing the dressing room?

And what is his actual plan? 5221? That’s people standing around on some grass. What is the fecking plan? Onana rolls it to DeLigt, DeLigt goes forward 10 yards, passes wide to Dalot, Dalot checks then passes all the way back to Onana. Hoof up to the other team.

Let’s say magically we get the ball up around the final third — then what? What is Dalot or Mazraoui supposed to do? Early cross, get to the bye line, whip in a low cross, hard ball to feet — what? And on the end of this, what. Was he really expecting Zirkzee to become a fox in the box when even a casual viewing of his high shows he’s anything but that kind of player? With inverted forwards and inverted wingbacks no one can cross the fecking ball while running. They have to stop, check onto their better foot, then play an inswinging late ball at a forward who can’t head, control, or shoot a ball with the defense already in place and waiting.

Without Dr. Erratic (Bruno) in the team we have zero personnel who can knot this dysfunctional set up together, as we just witnessed. I fully blame Amorim for the shitshow against Newcastle. Think about it: are fans, pundits, and oppos able to say “well at least Amorim played the best possible XI in their most comfortable roles”? He didn’t even select the best XI, nevermind their positions.

We don’t have wingbacks, Amorim. I know you think we do, but putting a cow in the stable doesn’t make it a horse. Likewise, Putting Dalot and Mazraoui in roles they can’t do is not going to work - simple as. I get it, he wants a painful birthing experience for his baby, but you do not have the players at your disposal to execute this plan. With Bruno and Ugarte out this should have been damage control, sit deep, hit them on the counter, and no one would blame you. Instead, he tried to go swashbuckling attack with a slow central midfield duo who were easily outclassed and overran. And you can’t tell the keeper to ping balls up to a target man who isn’t a target man, has no one running off him, and who would probably have a brick get all squirrelly and slip away from him if he tried to control it. Why not just try to fly a plane without any fecking wings?

feck!
 
soapythecat said:
Watch last nights post match interview - he’s not changing it and he said he’d stick with it to the end.
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Yeah, my point is he’d be a literal idiot for not comprimising if we get into an actual relegation battle.
 
Took over a shit show, during Christmas period and hard fixture list l, but he’s also not making the best decisions now. I saw improvements in terms of cohesiveness in the first couple games, but the last 2 or 3 have been dreadful.

Hopefully things pick up early in 2025 - these “relegation battle” shouts and banter I’m having to endure are annoying
 
The fact it’s getting worse is really concerning. Players have no confidence and getting battered every week will just destroy them.

I’m sure it’ll eventually come together and (can’t believe I’m writing this) I am sure we won’t go down. But they need to start squeezing out wins soon.
 
To be fair, continuing with his choice of wingbacks is on him. That is a choice. At least swap one of them out for a winger. That's a change surely he can make.
 
P-Nut said:
This is what Ten Hag was meant to do, it never happens as it's expected you progress as you've been working on it for years. When in reality you've just been fighting fires rather than actually building your system up.

I'll take any league finish this year as long as we don't get relegated, it's next season that I'll be judging him on and he'll need a fast start if this is the level we're expected to endure this season.
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Amorim thinks it will be worse if he changes the system. How can it? Right now it is relegation form. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same things over and over again and expect different results. That is where we are.
 
marx_2 said:
A left wing back? That would be a terrible decision. Luke Shaw is a world class left back. A good manager looks at a squad’s top players and build forth on them. Amorim is clueless. He is another manager who makes his players worse by making them feel inadequate.
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Except Lukes role in this system will be LCB.
 
soapythecat said:
Come on lad, who’s going to buy Shaw? Dalot maybe but his stock isn’t high. Garnacho’s price is dropping weekly and Rashford and Casemiro won’t be sold as no one will touch their wages. Saudi our only hope but the money has dried up for big signings.
If we sell one player (most likely Garnacho) I’d be amazed.
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Rashford £40m
Nacho £60m
Dalot £20m
Shaw and Casemiro £0

But even £80m in instead of £120m would allow significant purchases (£80m x 5 year contracts = £400m).
 
sixdwarf said:
Amorim thinks it will be worse if he changes the system. How can it? Right now it is relegation form. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same things over and over again and expect different results. That is where we are.
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But you expected them to automatically play like prime Barca in a new system? Do you give up with everything in your own life as quickly? It was never going to be instant.

He does need to change some of his selections though, that he can control. Maz at wingback for example, horrible.
 
RDCR07 said:
We have no choice but to play out of this rough patch and be better. There is no point in bringing in a coach who plays like this and telling him to change his system. So if he changes to a 4-2-3-1, which btw he hasnt played before, and we continue to lose what then? Change back to 3 at the back or continue with 4 at the back?
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How would we know unless we try something else under him? I understand that you can continue to play a system to get better at it, but I would expect that is to iron out kinks provided there's clear improvement.

After eleven games of it, we don't look to have a solid base, we're not scoring freely and are conceding a lot of goals when faced with any half decent level of opposition.

I hope I'm wrong and that others are right, and that just having a manager playing his previously successful system repeatedly eventually leads to improvement at both ends of the field and improved results.

I just have my doubts though, it's a tough league and there are plenty of other formations you can play to try and get a result. Even if we were good, it's unlikely the team would maximise positive results by playing the same way against every team anyway.
 
One of the mayor issues in my opinion is that the players & fans still see Man United as a, no, as THE top club in English football and they behave accordingly.

We are dogshite. Trying to just play football is not getting them any points. They have to battle & fight if they want to stay at the club. If you don't show that, be gone.
 
The Urban Goose said:
Rashford £40m
Nacho £60m
Dalot £20m
Shaw and Casemiro £0

But even £80m in instead of £120m would allow significant purchases (£80m x 5 year contracts = £400m).
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We are never getting £60m for Garnacho but easily getting more than £20m for Dalot. Probably £30m to £35m each.

Also, Rashford is probably £15m to £20m given his wages.
 
NewbieRed said:
The match report in the Telegraph this morning really highlights the foolishness of the team selection last night.
- in midfield we put two old and slow players up against the dynamic trio of Guimares, Tonali and Joelinton
- in defence we have three centre-backs marking one striker, Isak

The outcome was inevitable. I don't think it's too harsh to use the word 'stupid' about last night's team selection.
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It really highlights the drawbacks of this system, even with the best of plans it will still feel like you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage for the midfield battle right away.
 
I'm not so sure why people think we won't go down. These players will be the first to surrender if they get mired in a relegation dogfight and be expected to scrap for every point.
 
Amorim should never have played a central spine with Eriksen, Casemiro and Zirkzee. That is hopeless.
 
Starting a pretty immobile midfield duo against some of the best athletes in the league was a poor decision, as was giving Malacia and Zirkzee a start a couple games back.

He’s made a few unforced errors
 
groovyalbert said:
There are managers who deploy this tactic who have had success/been considered to be at the top of the game - Tuchel, Conte, Nagelsmann come to mind
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Again, top where?

What sustainable success has either of the three achieved?

Even Leicester won the league playing Counter attacking "ball over the top to Vardy" football.
Even Pellegrini and Mancini won the league.
Even over the cliff Mourinho did.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Why are we hiring managers whose system requires a complete overhaul of players? We made this same mistake with LVG to Jose.

Now if Amorim doesn't work out and the squad has been overhauled to suit his style we will again be in a pickle. Amorim system is so unique that we won't be able to find a similar manager and will require another overhaul. INEOS are as stupid as Woodward.

Just pick an overall club philosophy and stick to it for once.
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Good players can play almost any system. The fact only a few players have adapted, showd how crap our quality is, we can't even do 5 yard passes properly, that's not a system fault.

If anything we have more possession now and that has exposed the players even more.

ETH £600m, even more before him and we have a first team full of players, most of which pwould not make mid table team's starting line up. Lets alone any of our squad players.
 
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The Urban Goose said:
Rashford £40m
Nacho £60m
Dalot £20m
Shaw and Casemiro £0

But even £80m in instead of £120m would allow significant purchases (£80m x 5 year contracts = £400m).
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I like to see optimism like this.

But in January ain’t nobody paying £60M for Garnacho or £40M for Rashford with the wages he’s on. Dalot is not going for more than AWB ina January window especially when everyone knows we’re in dire straits. If you meant next summer, 12 or 13 players should be on the market.
 
I dont think he got the players and the dressing room

I'm not expecting miraculous recovery but his form is abysmal even considering the mess he inherited

It's clear he doesnt have the personel to play his prefered formation and his stubborn to kept his system wihtout any consideration at all to salvage the season.

I know it's a teething process but good lord it's ugly

Shoulda beef up the squad with 4 at the back at least until next season when he'll have reinforcement and a preseason

At this rate he wont last very long, even a blank season has it's limit
 
Judas said:
But you expected them to automatically play like prime Barca in a new system? Do you give up with everything in your own life as quickly? It was never going to be instant.

He does need to change some of his selections though, that he can control. Maz at wingback for example, horrible.
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Nobody expects us to be like prime Barca straight away. In life though, you generally persist with and tweak something that you can see is working to an extent and needs refinement.

If the very core process of something doesn't looking like delivering the desired result, you'd try something else.

In this case, after 11 games, we're conceding a lot, not scoring very many, and losing more games than we're winning. We're constantly taking about players not being fit for purpose, or not performing well in their new roles. That to me says there's not much to be gained from persisting with that formation at the moment.
 
soapythecat said:
He has said numerous times, including g in last nights post match, that this is his system and he will stick with it as he knows no other. We are not going to a back 4 so people need to stop going on about it. It will work or we go down - one or the other.
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It’s a bit concerning when a manager bases his vision on certain formation rather than underlying principles themselves which can be achieved through different formations, didn’t he say that for players it’s nothing new but back 4 somehow is totally alien to him? We all back the Manager since he just started and is really likable but some reservations are starting to creep in unfortunately.
 
The Urban Goose said:
Rashford £40m
Nacho £60m
Dalot £20m
Shaw and Casemiro £0

But even £80m in instead of £120m would allow significant purchases (£80m x 5 year contracts = £400m).
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Why are we selling Garnacho just because he is going through a bad patch, absurd.
 
Judas said:
But you expected them to automatically play like prime Barca in a new system? Do you give up with everything in your own life as quickly? It was never going to be instant.

He does need to change some of his selections though, that he can control. Maz at wingback for example, horrible.
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I don't expect us to be prime Barca, don't be daft. But I don't expect us to be showing relegation form either. That first half hour is the worst I've seen from United post-Fergie. No question. Right now our form will see us heading towards the Championship as it stands to fight it out with City when they get the book thrown at them for breaching financial fair play rules (allegedly).
 
The Urban Goose said:
Chelsea and Arsenal have both shown it's possible to reboot a squad over one summer. Besides, we don't need to sell 7-8 players (as there are five contracts expiring next summer anyway), we just need to sell 3-4, which is perfectly doable.

Maguire, Lindelof and Eriksen are all expiring next summer, so that's circa £26m/year off the wage bill already.

Then get rid of Rashford, Casemiro, Dalot, Garnacho and Shaw and that's circa £120m in sales and £52m/year salary brought in.

That allows up to circa £500m purchases amortised over 5 year contracts and £1.5m/week salaries available. That easily translates into circa 7 x £70m players on £200k/week each. That would absolutely transform this squad.
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This seems like the kind of back of a fag packet maths that bares no relation to reality.
 
sixdwarf said:
Amorim thinks it will be worse if he changes the system. How can it? Right now it is relegation form. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same things over and over again and expect different results. That is where we are.
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Worse long term not short term, he's stated that himself when saying he could change and get some results now, but we'd be in the same position come the summer that we are now.

The only benefit to him coming in mid season rather than waiting until the end is so that he can start to get ideas into the players that will be staying and being a part of his chosen line up.
 
We were fecked the moment Ineos decided to keep Ten Hag in place, Amorim was getting a bit of itchy feet seeing who he talked to in the summer but he made massive blunder agreeing to come here and doing so midseason with little to no hope of serious reinforcements early on.

People forget that finishing 8th serious flattered our performances and underlying stats. We could and should have lost the first game of that season away to Wolves and many more games. Posters look at past performances and previous reputations and think we have a top tier squad - newsflash, we don't.

Some of the losses are unacceptable but we shouldn't overlook the individual and silly errors being made by players who cost millions. We should also accept the fact that other clubs have done a better job than us in squad building - forget the reputations, the fees and the wages; they are only that high because we were the only idiots willing to pay them. Who else would have paid 80m for Antony or gave Casemiro 350k per week?
 
Rajma said:
It’s a bit concerning when a manager bases his vision on certain formation rather than underlying principles themselves which can be achieved through different formations, didn’t he say that for players it’s nothing new but back 4 somehow is totally alien to him? We all back the Manager since he just started and is really likable but some reservations are starting to creep in unfortunately.
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The system won’t work with our players. Since he started we are 18th for goals scored and points. We aren’t even threatening goals and conceding at ease. Something has to change because there currently isn’t 3 worse teams than us in the league and we are not improving. Amorin is the right guy but at the wrong time and it’s fecking painful to watch.
 
Get a proven goal scorer. At least we can start getting shots on goal. How on earth we are going to compete, forget winning, without strikers!
 
Rajma said:
It’s a bit concerning when a manager bases his vision on formation rather than principles themselves which can be achieved through different formations, didn’t he say that for players it’s nothing new but back 4 somehow is totally alien to him? We all back the Manager since he just started and is really likable but some reservations are starting to creep in unfortunately.
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Forget systems...just play your best blimmln players FFS. Do the basics. Try and get a settled side to build cohesion and understanding. There's none of that.
Nobody in their right mind can possibly think Zirkzee is good enough. But he starts. There was no legs in midfield when we have Kobbie on the bench. Amorim says it's his fault but will carry on doing the same crazy things nonetheless. Because he believes it is down to lack of training.

It's like a sick exercise in self harm.
 
sixdwarf said:
I don't expect us to be prime Barca, don't be daft. But I don't expect us to be showing relegation form either. That first half hour is the worst I've seen from United post-Fergie. No question. Right now our form will see us heading towards the Championship as it stands to fight it out with City when they get the book thrown at them for breaching financial fair play rules (allegedly).
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Both Manchester clubs out of the PL in the same season would be impressive. Stockport and Salford to form a new rivalry for dominance of Manchester that will make the world slack-jawed in amazement.
 
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