Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

The Mitcher said:
Rangnick didn't try, he just decided to create more chaos.
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More chaos? Rangnick observed a rotten club with a toxic culture and numerous problematic players. He warned everyone about this, he was calling people out to try and highlight the issues, but instead received criticism from ignorant fans who couldn't handle the truth
 
The Mitcher said:
ETH threw them under the bus plenty of times. He was perfectly happy to let them get the shit he should have got. He set them up to fail whereas Rangnick couldn't be arsed.
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Can you name a few?
I can recall sancho but that was after he gave him a 1+ month break to get his head straight mid season and defended him all season.

Rashford he was way too kind on, even when he missed training for going out on a bender.

Casemiro I think was one example but seemingly a translation issue (saying he dropped him for footballing reasons when he meant to say tactical).

Sancho aside though, I can't find any other instance of throwing them under a bus? He certainly protected them too much in front of the media though.
 
pocco said:
Of course he tried, he was supposed to be moving into the consultancy role afterwards. Why would he not try? He was too honest if anything.
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The fact he could only muster 45 minutes? He talked himself out of that role.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
More chaos? Rangnick observed a rotten club with a toxic culture and numerous problematic players. He warned everyone about this, he was calling people out to try and highlight the issues, but instead received criticism from ignorant fans who couldn't handle the truth
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At a time where the team and club needed team spirit he sowed discord and chaos, and pitted fans like you against the team. All to save himself because results got even worse.
 
pocco said:
What has SJR said?
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Basically said that it’s all about the team and he understands that max verstappen couldn’t win the Grand Prix with a Williams car, so basically said the team isn’t good enough to challenge and so won’t challenge. Seemed to massively suggest the team isn’t good enough.
 
I’m glad Amorim is coming in when he is. Reality is that despite the enormous mess that Erik has left on the field, things are much more organised off it, and we sit just 6 points off a CL birth with 28 games to play. There’s so much to play for this season. 3 cups and CL qualification. Can he do it? Odds are against it, but…stranger things have happened for sure. Next season will be the litmus test for him, but so much progress can be made this year as long as everyone is realistic about the scale of the sporting challenge. The team has some terrible habits and no cohesion, but there are a lot of good raw materials to work with for Amorim.

For all the tactical analysis, and that’s a huge part of the picture, taking over a team in disarray mid season, is as much about reviving confidence and belief as it is bringing effective tactics to the table. With the plethora of games coming up, there’s only so much work that can be done on the training field. But if he gets us decently organised and instils a winning mentality and belief, that can take us a long way this season. Then the real work can begin in pre-season.
 
No player should be safe....and I suspect some of the fan favs might not be here under the new manager.
 
hobbers said:
The players deserve scrutiny on them turned up to 1000 now until the end of the season.

Especially the ones who have seen 4 or 5 managers come and go.
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4 or 5 managers?! Who are these players? Dalot, Bruno (signed under Ole), Rashford? Maguire....Shaw? Do we think Shaw is having that much influence from his sick bed? I think it's a knackered narrative at this point.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
More chaos? Rangnick observed a rotten club with a toxic culture and numerous problematic players. He warned everyone about this, he was calling people out to try and highlight the issues, but instead received criticism from ignorant fans who couldn't handle the truth
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100%, on top of that he got very good scouting network, the players he recommended to us were snapped up by Pool, Citi and Chelsea

If we had given 500M (spent by ETH) to Ralf, we could have been in a lot better situation today and got good players for any new managers coming in.

Ralf worked on limited budgets at RB group but he could have made lot of difference with budget he could get at UTD.
 
Litch said:
No player should be safe....and I suspect some of the fan favs might not be here under the new manager.
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Other than Mainoo and Garnacho I'm not too bothered about any of our players that much, so he can do what he wants with the rest for me.
 
hobbers said:
Rashford and Shaw: 5 (LVG, Jose, Ole, Ralf, ETH)

Lindelof (leaving anyway) and Dalot: 4

Maguire (hopefully also leaving) and Bruno: 3
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Counting an interim in Ralf is silly. Very silly.

Players like Lindelof, Shaw should have seen the door ages ago, but its nothing to do with seeing off managers its their actual ability, Lindelof was never good enough, Shaw has never been reliable enough.
 
The Mitcher said:
The fact he could only muster 45 minutes? He talked himself out of that role.
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You're looking at it completely wrong, it wasn't Rangnick that could only muster 45 minutes, it was the players.

It would have been suicidal of Rangnick to ask them to carry on pressing how he wanted, when the players didn't have the fitness levels to do so.

You could argue they still don't have the fitness levels either.
 
Would love to have been inside Amorims head as he watched that.God knows what he thought, the worst possible advert for PL football. We looked awful, genuinely rubbish. Another huge clear out beckons.
 
simonhch said:
I’m glad Amorim is coming in when he is. Reality is that despite the enormous mess that Erik has left on the field, things are much more organised off it, and we sit just 6 points off a CL birth with 28 games to play. There’s so much to play for this season. 3 cups and CL qualification. Can he do it? Odds are against it, but…stranger things have happened for sure. Next season will be the litmus test for him, but so much progress can be made this year as long as everyone is realistic about the scale of the sporting challenge. The team has some terrible habits and no cohesion, but there are a lot of good raw materials to work with for Amorim.

For all the tactical analysis, and that’s a huge part of the picture, taking over a team in disarray mid season, is as much about reviving confidence and belief as it is bringing effective tactics to the table. With the plethora of games coming up, there’s only so much work that can be done on the training field. But if he gets us decently organised and instils a winning mentality and belief, that can take us a long way this season. Then the real work can begin in pre-season.
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Completely agree. It’s getting tiresome everyone repeating the same thing every time we get a new manager. Everyone wants a lot of players to be shipped out and this big overhaul in tactics and gameplay from day 1.

All I want for this season is more organization, especially when it comes to scoring goals from open play. It’s quite clear that the team is not on the same wavelength and everyone just tries to create individual moments.

If Amorim can get the existing players to play to a system (according for current squads ability and limitations), we should be able to have a 6-7 game winning run and get some belief to get top 4/a cup or two.

The bigger changes can come in next summer.
 
tjb said:
Fraud may not be the word, but I understand the line of thinking.

I don't think he was anywhere near as good of a manager as fans and the media would like to think. Him being Dutch and the idea of the country as a whole being full of total football wizards painted a picture of him being a tactical genius. He was quite the opposite of that, and this was clear from a lot of decisions he made and his failure to stop specific tactical flaws for elongated periods. He was clearly out of his depth. Yet unlike Moyes and Ole, he gets treated like the club were the ones to limit his abilities. Once fans start realizing, that outside of transfers, the owners and senior executives, have no influence on the pitch, they will start looking at where the on pitch issues have always lied - the people we hire as managers.

Retrospectively, the system Ten Hag employed with Ajax was very unique....it took a lot of risk and required such a level of superiority that it was clear it couldn't be replicated in hindsight. You had players like Timber and Mazraoui, centre backs who were fluid and constantly out of position, Daley Blind being a sort of playmaking defender, and players having the time and space to overload the opposition from the weirdest positions. Timber and Lisandro were undersized centre backs yet still faced little pressure. Ajax also didn't actually keep possession through a reduced tempo like most teams, they were able to maintain high possession numbers through playing high and having the physical superiority to regain possession when lost due to easily winning one on one duels. Despite how fluid their backline was, teams did not have the speed or power to take advantage of their weird distribution of numbers, so on appearance, with the risk Ten Hag took, it looked attractive, but in reality, his system could not work in any competitive league, and more specifically, a league as physical and intense as the Premier League.

At United, particularly from last season onwards, his lack of tactical acumen got exposed, as his inability to react to situations on the pitch became apparent. Some fans would limit this to in-game management, but overall I actually think its a reflection of his full tactical inadequacies. My takeaway, especially from last season, was that he didn't actually know how to tweak the system to make it effective. He can follow a recipe, but I don't think he knows how to cook. Which is why in the Premier League, he could provide us with the shape, movements and formation, but couldn't adapt when the recipe given to him didn't work in the premier league environment.

In comparison, Amorim's system seems a lot more simple and adaptable. Its quite clear what the route to goal is, and it doesn't rely on extraordinary features, such the heavy overlaods ETH's system required, in order to get goals. The defensive set up is also easy to understand and doesn't require moments of fluidity to be effective. On paper, this makes it adaptable to the Premier League. The big lesson with Ten Hag is that Dutch managers reliance on fluidity and their stubbornness toward their tactical principals is not conducive to the intense and physical nature of the premier league, that requires quick action. To adapt to that reality, managers who focus on fluidity, need to be able to adapt their tactics to make it conducive to the league, which are the steps that both Pep and Arteta have taken. Pep with his inverted full backs, Arteta by using centre backs at full back and by ensuring his wingers act almost like wing backs in their tracking back. United were so dominant for so many years due to having simple tactical principles that were suited to the pace and intensity of the premier league. I think Amorim coming in, with INEOS supporting him, will allow us to get back to that.
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Cheaty and Arsenal play boring football amd at times barely create anything. Ten Hag and Amorim have different more modern tactics that focus on speed and pressing, as do Chelsea and Pool.

Amorim has a lot to prove, and I hope it will work out and he is the one to get us back where we should be: challenging for titles.
 
Random question which may be completely irrelevant come the end of the season.

If Amorim wins us the Europa League but we don't finish top 5, will there be 6 English teams in the champions league next season or if not who gets the spot?
 
I'm very curious to see Bruno Fernandes' enormous talent reborn and become Ruben Amorim's voice on the pitch
 
Adz_99 said:
Random question which may be completely irrelevant come the end of the season.

If Amorim wins us the Europa League but we don't finish top 5, will there be 6 English teams in the champions league next season or if not who gets the spot?
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Cl & EL winners have automatic spots in next seasons CL, it doesn't matter where they place in their leagues.
 
Call me crazy but I think there’s a tonne of untapped potential in this squad. There’s a lot of turd too but I think the is an enough talent to turn things around and finish the season strongly.
 
Gonçalo Motta said:
In some aspects, things are far worse now than with any manager pos Fergie.
I don't see one single player that is a must-keep here.
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My thoughts exactly. It looks really bad from my perspective as well. Unless Amorim is some sort of wizard, then it's a very long road back from where we are right now.
 
Ish said:
Anyone else think Mount might be someone who thrives in his system? (Fitness permitting of course).
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If he's fit then certainly. He'd be a shoe in but the fitness is a big if.
 
Some of you are so incredibly negative. It's tiring to read, it must be tiring to be in that constant state of mind.

We've had the better chances today against a decent Chelsea team. They were only really a threat from 2 set pieces. A Chelsea team that are the second top scorers in the league by the way.

There are of course things to work on, and that's what we're paying Amorim to do. But to suggest this season is a write off, there's no hope with this group, is ridiculous. We've got a serious chance to win our next two games and get some momentum going into the Amorim era.
 
Ish said:
Anyone else think Mount might be someone who thrives in his system? (Fitness permitting of course).
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Yes. I made a longer post about this the other day. Amorim’s system uses two AMs in quite central positions. Players who are asked to be technical and hardworking, both on and off the ball. If you watch any number of videos breaking down his tactical approach, and Pythagoras in Boots is a good example, then what Amorim looks for in, and asks for from, an AM; is pretty much a punchlist of Mount’s best qualities. I think he is tailor made for the system, and I suspect that he, Bruno and Amad will be the primary three playing those two positions.

This is an appointment that could save Mount’s United career. I don’t see many other managers out there that have a system that naturally calls for both Bruno and Mount in the same team. But Amorim’s does. Fitness permitting, I think Amorim is going to love Mount.
 
Ish said:
Anyone else think Mount might be someone who thrives in his system? (Fitness permitting of course).
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Honestly forgot he played for us. I don't think Amorim can count on him enough to be a mainstay. Really weird signing he was.
 
Got hope for this chap.

He's got a huge job though.

Expensive and extremely ineffective squad, no strikers, problem players and really very little to redeem the idea we're a top club.

If he clears out, the buy in has to be the cheapest we've ever seen. We shouldn't be pulling marquee signings, we should be building.

Good luck to him, he's got the worst job in English football.
 
The Mitcher said:
The fact he could only muster 45 minutes? He talked himself out of that role.
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The players could only muster 45 mins. After that they couldn't be arsed.

It's the same reason Amorim will be forced to scrap his 3 at the back and adopt a 4 at the back counter attack. It's all these lads know and can be bothered with.
 
DJ_21 said:
Don’t think amad should be included in this list. He’s got better footballing IQ than all 3 of our forwards that started today. Zirkzee should never have been bought, we should have waited and then got the guy from sporting.
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Amad isnt good enough for a side that wants to compete for Premier League titles or Champions Leagues, he wasnt even good enough for Rangers
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Amad isnt good enough for a side that wants to compete for Premier League titles or Champions Leagues, he wasnt even good enough for Rangers
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Feck sake your on a roll tonight. Are you trying to speed run most daft post about our players of the year awards?
Did you see Amad at Sunderland. He never really got a chance for Rangers.
 
The Mitcher said:
The fact he could only muster 45 minutes? He talked himself out of that role.
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He only mustered 45 minutes or the players did? What changed after 45 minutes? Did he start shitting on them for playing well and undid it all? I think Rangnick hoped the club and fans weren't fools and could see he was right. In time he has been proven to be right.

Ten Hag saw to it that he didn't get the role. Refused to speak to him, said he could do it on his own basically. Look where it got us.
 
The Mitcher said:
The fact he could only muster 45 minutes? He talked himself out of that role.
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Yep. The way he was going on and on about us needing to sign 10 new players. It put the club in a tough position and set us up to have our pants pulled down in the transfer market again.
 
I watched a Goldbridge clip about how the new manager should go back the last 4 years to judge how our players have performed instead of giving them all a clean slate. I have to say I agree with this as you get players who have a bounce for a few months and then go back to being not of the quality we expect.
 
How does he coach this squad to press correctly? Why for three seasons now, if not more, are we so shit at pressing. It's often half arsed lone attempts while everybody else is late to the party, by which time the opportunity has gone. When you watch almost every other team press, it's organised, and timed, and everybody knows what to do. It's like we just POI NT fingers and skip towards the opponent.
 
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