Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

I think 3 months ago we would all have agreed that the entire footballing approach required major heart surgery, not just some tinkering around the edges. And not even 10 games in plenty of people have forgotten already.

We could have gone for a continuity candidate who would have just upped morale, picked the players that ETH inexplicably ignored (e.g Amad and Ugarte), placated Rashford and Garnacho, and aimed for a spot in the Europa League. Ruud could have done this (he'd already started doing it in his 4 games), as could the new guy at Wolves, or any one of a lot of candidates. Amorim was completely clear right from the start that he was going to implement a completely new style of play, and that this would be painful - the fact that he was so open about it suggests that this was with the full support of the management structure above him. We all - pretty much without exception - applauded this as it's the correct approach. The timing has been cruel - trying to implement such a different style during a period where there is hardly any time to train is almost impossible, and we're paying the price for that at the moment, but it's short term pain for long term gain. Anyone on his case already and asking him to give up on his footballing ideals - the very things that he was appointed for - are nutcases.
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
I think 3 months ago we would all have agreed that the entire footballing approach required major heart surgery, not just some tinkering around the edges. And not even 10 games in plenty of people have forgotten already.

We could have gone for a continuity candidate who would have just upped morale, picked the players that ETH inexplicably ignored (e.g Amad and Ugarte), placated Rashford and Garnacho, and aimed for a spot in the Europa League. Ruud could have done this (he'd already started doing it in his 4 games), as could the new guy at Wolves, or any one of a lot of candidates. Amorim was completely clear right from the start that he was going to implement a completely new style of play, and that this would be painful - the fact that he was so open about it suggests that this was with the full support of the management structure above him. We all - pretty much without exception - applauded this as it's the correct approach. The timing has been cruel - trying to implement such a different style during a period where there is hardly any time to train is almost impossible, and we're paying the price for that at the moment, but it's short term pain for long term gain. Anyone on his case already and asking him to give up on his footballing ideals - the very things that he was appointed for - are nutcases.
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Bravo old chap
 
Acheron said:
What was he complaining about when he was at United? It seems a lot of managers have done so like Mourinho and and this Ragnick guy.
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the facilities were exactly the same since he left in need of repair, and the younger players had no interest in learning/improving
 
Cessna said:
In his famous interview, C.Ronaldo was talking about how every club he had been to had more modern infrastructure and facilities than United. Basically that the club had not progressed at all since the first time he was at the club. He also lashed out at the club for hiring Ragnick, whom he said nobody had ever heard about, and that he was not a coach.
I'm assuming he is sympathetic towards his fellow countryman in Amorim, and that he is thkinking about the above. In addition to the part about players not being nearly as professional as they should on and off the pitch.

That being said. I find it ridiculous that anyone are even thinking that the manager is unfit already. No pre-season. No transfers.
I'd even say that judging a manager after one full season is too quick.
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Isnt Carrington undergoing a massive upgrade?
 
clarkydaz said:
the facilities were exactly the same since he left in need of repair, and the younger players had no interest in learning/improving
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And it should be mentioned that he said that while literal new buildings were built.
 
Cessna said:
In his famous interview, C.Ronaldo was talking about how every club he had been to had more modern infrastructure and facilities than United. Basically that the club had not progressed at all since the first time he was at the club. He also lashed out at the club for hiring Ragnick, whom he said nobody had ever heard about, and that he was not a coach.
I'm assuming he is sympathetic towards his fellow countryman in Amorim, and that he is thkinking about the above. In addition to the part about players not being nearly as professional as they should on and off the pitch.
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The players not being professional seems a recurring theme, as for the rest I guess he really wanted out. Anyway if the enviorment is toxic and/or if the team is underperforming I'm more about siding with the managers and getting rid of the players who aren't fully commited to the team.
 
Toshey said:
This forum proves to me that many people don't want change or fixing the club.
They can't tolerate any setbacks, can't accept that we have bad players and it takes time and recourses to fix anything really.

Some fans will be happy if we sit back and counter and get some results here and there.

Old Trafford is leaking like drain pipe, we have fecking mice infestation, NOBODY in the world is interestes in our supposedly "best players", but you find problem with the manager who has been here since yesterday.

Speechless.
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Spot on mate!
 
Well our xG since Amorin is the worst in the whole PL.. Exclude the Everton game and it's even worse.. We have 3 choices: new players in January, Amorin change his tactics and selection or he will be fired while we fight relegation in say march..
 
Ljungster said:
Well our xG since Amorin is the worst in the whole PL.. Exclude the Everton game and it's even worse.. We have 3 choices: new players in January, Amorin change his tactics and selection or he will be fired while we fight relegation in say march..
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Any source for this?
 
Blood Mage said:
He's already making excuses like Ten Hag. Not enough time on the training pitch, I need new signings etc. A coach has to get the best out of what's available to him first and foremost and he's not doing it so far.
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Xtal said:
Ruben Amorim is increasingly looking like another mistake. A good coach must get a tune out of the existing players while awaiting additional signings to consolidate the team. Amorim seems out of his depth already, he's proving the Portuguese league is way way below the EPL standards. Accepted, the squad is not the best quality however he seems to have suddenly made them poorer. The whole should always be more than the sum of parts, not less. Never less. I personally have issues with the 3-4-3 formation, I don't believe it would work in the EPL however wolves' new coach deployed it to perfection yesterday so a lot of fingers should now be pointed at Ruben Amorim. If he's lucky, he'll get some money to spend in January and bring in HIS players but if results don't improve immediately, I'll only hope Sir Jim Ratcliffe negotiated a low payoff into Amorim's contract. For me, we need a coach with EPL experience; Silva, Iraola, Emery or Frank for a start. Worried.
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This doesn't make sense to me. Amorim was hired because of the results and performances he achieved doing his thing. It wouldn't make any sense for him to come to United and do something else; the club should just have hired someone else in that case. So now he's here, he will be given a chance to implement his thing in full. And he hasn't had that chance yet. First because it's only been 1.5 months, and second because United have had a mid-week game (almost?) every week in that period.

With mid-week games, nearly all training ground is spent on recovery and match prep. There is next to no time to work on the positioning, patterns, routines, and automatisms that come with Amorim's system - and that work is needed, cause it's quite different from what Ten Hag did. All the same, you can already see the play changing and the accompanying development in underlying metrics.

I'm sure people will want all kinds of things, but in practice, I think only two things can reasonably be expected: either the club gives Amorim the full opportunity that his hiring represents, and don't ask him to change his approach while he's still in the middle (or rather: early phases) of implementing it. Or the club decides that it won't work and get someone else in. But it makes no sense to hire Amorim and then ask him to be another coach. In that case, the club should have hired another coach in the first place.

I'm sure some people would have preferred that (a different coach), but here we are. And so except if things really start going wrong (much worse than this), it's very unlikely that he's going to change his approach to accommodate the players or appease fans. That's not why he was hired (or at least, it would make no sense if he were), and he's already said multiple times that he won't. It is what it is!
 
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NicolaSacco said:
I think you’re on to something. No one with a full head of hair would even think about making a correlation
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Good point, it is well known that hair prevent the full use of our brains.
 
Thank god for our flukey win vs City. I don’t think people realise how close we are to disaster. Not sure Amorim realises it. If we actually get into a relegation fight for real, he’s done.
 
Cheimoon said:
This doesn't make sense to me. Amorim was hired because of the results and performances he achieved doing his thing. It wouldn't make any sense for him to come to United and do something else; the club should just have hired someone else in that case. So now he's here, he will be given a chance to implement his thing in full. And he hasn't had that chance yet. First because it's only been 1.5 months, and second because United have had a mid-week game (almost?) every week in that period.

With mid-week games, nearly all training ground is spent on recovery and match prep. There is next to no time to work on the positioning, patterns, routines, and automatisms that come with Amorim's system - and that work is needed, cause it's quite different from what Ten Hag did. All the same, you can already see the play changing and the accompanying development in underlying metrics.

I'm sure people will want all kinds of things, but in practice, I think only two things can reasonably be expected: either the club gives Amorim the full opportunity that his hiring represents, and don't ask him to change his approach while he's still in the middle (or rather: early phases) of implementing it. Or the club decide that it won't work and get someone else in. But it makes no sense to hire Amorim and then ask him to be another coach. In that case, the club should have hired another coach in the first place.

I'm sure some people would have preferred that (a different coach), but here we are. And so except if things really start going wrong (much worse than this), it's very unlikely that he's going to change his approach to accommodate the players or appease fans. That's not why he was hired (or at least, it would make no sense if he were), and he's already said multiple times that he won't. It is what it is!
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And that's why I defended the idea of getting rid of ETH last summer instead of doing it in the middle of the season. In season sackings are by far the least optimal option so when you have good reasons to doubt your manager make things easier for everyone and get rid before preseason.
 
FreakyJim said:
Thank god for our flukey win vs City. I don’t think people realise how close we are to disaster. Not sure Amorim realises it. If we actually get into a relegation fight for real, he’s done.
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Disaster to me is carrying on how we have been for the last decade. A complete meltdown and total footballing reset would be preferable to me, even if that includes a few months flirting with the bottom quarter of the league.
 
JPRouve said:
And that's why I defended the idea of getting rid of ETH last summer instead of doing it in the middle of the season. In season sackings are by far the least optimal option so when you have good reasons to doubt your manager make things easier for everyone and get rid before preseason.
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Yep. It might also have made more sense to let Van Nistelrooij continue until he's crashed out of a few cups and Amorim could be hired and have more training time. Or whatever oyher scenario made more sense than the half-baked situation that United got themselves into now. But here we are, better roll with the punches now.
Ljungster said:
Well our xG since Amorin is the worst in the whole PL.. Exclude the Everton game and it's even worse.. We have 3 choices: new players in January, Amorin change his tactics and selection or he will be fired while we fight relegation in say march..
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Regardless of whether this is true - why would you remove a game just to worsen a stat? What's the rational basis for that?
FreakyJim said:
Thank god for our flukey win vs City. I don’t think people realise how close we are to disaster. Not sure Amorim realises it. If we actually get into a relegation fight for real, he’s done.
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How was it flukey? United dominated most of the game.
 
astracrazy said:
It's concerning you can't see the difference between ten Hag and Amorim.

One was here two and half seasons and 15 signings later. The other 6 weeks.
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Some don’t want to see, this guy and that ten hag loving vp89 seem to be relishing in some bad results
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I know it's still early days.

Another worrying trend is that most of the players seem to regress under him or his system. Garnacho, Mainoo, Rashford, Hojlund and etc. He also didn't seem to improve any of the players in the club so far.
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Nah mate, it's just that now we're actually trying to play football you're seeing their lack of quality for what it is.
Jericholyte2 said:
I hate this group of players, both (barring 1 or 2) and collectively. I don’t think I’d be upset if ANY of them got sold.

  • Onana: ‘Fine’ but is such a confidence player. I couldn’t object to selling
  • Yoro: Won’t sell. He’s clearly got talent but I’m not seeing why Real / Liverpool etc were after him.
  • De Ligt: Up and down, won’t be sold
  • Maguire: has shown some balls recently, so will probably get a 1yr trigger then a new 5yr deal
  • Lindelof: Leaving on a free
  • Evans: 10yrs too old, leaving on a free
  • Martinez: a shell of his former self or even the player of the FA Cup final. Honestly wouldn’t shed a tear if he was sold for the right amount
  • Mazraoui: keep. Should probably only be a squad player but…
  • Dalot: just not good enough on either side of the game
  • Shaw: Time for him to go passed long ago
  • Malacia: not good enough and too injury prone
  • Casemiro: done, sell
  • Ugarte: fine player
  • Mainoo: WTF has happened?!?
  • Mount: seems to be just broken
  • Eriksen: leaving on a free
  • Bruno: no brain whatsoever
  • Amad: Fine but would be a squad player for a serious title challenger
  • Antony: just…what
  • Rashford: gone
  • Garnacho: thinks he’s Ronaldo MkII, honestly wouldn’t shed a tear if he was sold for the right price
  • Zirkzee: just a lot of meh
  • Hojlund: there’s a good striker in there but just gets NOTHING from the others
So that’s maybe 3 players in the entire squad I’d actively want to hold on to.

Then you’ve got the issue of INEOS.

‘We’re deciding on building a style of play and the manager will fit that’ - so is our style 343? Or are we going to buy players for him and then get stuck with too many CBs and WBs when the next manager comes in and wants 4231 again?

Then you have the stadium, which will be a >£1bn drain on finances for the next Xyrs, impacting our ability in the transfer market.

TLDR - we’re proper fecked!
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Toshey said:
This forum proves to me that many people don't want change or fixing the club.
They can't tolerate any setbacks, can't accept that we have bad players and it takes time and recourses to fix anything really.

Some fans will be happy if we sit back and counter and get some results here and there.

Old Trafford is leaking like drain pipe, we have fecking mice infestation, NOBODY in the world is interestes in our supposedly "best players", but you find problem with the manager who has been here since yesterday.

Speechless.
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I think we have to accept this season is a write off. If we could finish midtable and spend all of next season focusing on one game a week it would probably be good for us.
 
Cheimoon said:
Yep. It might also have made more sense to let Van Nistelrooij continue until he's crashed out of a few cups and Amorim could be hired and have more training time. Or whatever oyher scenario made more sense than the half-baked situation that United got themselves into now. But here we are, better roll with the punches now.
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The other way of looking at it is that by the start of next season we'll be 9 months into the rebuild. Waiting until the summer would have just been delaying the inevitable, and even with a preseason there's nowhere near enough time to do a full rebuild in one summer. We're ripping the plaster off at the moment so the wound can heal in fresh air, rather than tentatively peeling the corner off the plaster, deciding it hurts too much and just resticking it as best we can whilst the wound festers underneath.
 
10 games is still nothing to go off, but it is crazy how few players have performed well consistently. Maybe 4? 5 if we're being generous:

GK
Maz* - Maguire - De Ligt
Amad* - Ugarte - CMF - LWB
RAM - LAM
ST​

Amad mostly at RWB, I haven't seen enough at #10 from him to be convinced, and Maz exclusively at RCB (terrible at WB).
 
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golden_blunder said:
"You can argue that I have been here one month and I’ve had four training (sessions), but we are not winning. That is the reality and I’m quite comfortable with that."

Context. 4 training sessions with them. FOUR
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I expect us to get beat by Arsenal in the FA Cup, but going out of the EL wouldn't be the worst thing for us in the long term imo. We need to get the players on the training pitch and get them drilled in the way he wants to play. The longer we're playing 3 games a week, the more painful this is going to get.
 
The way I see it Ruben has to achieve three things.
1. sort out the rotten culture in the dressingroom
2. teach the players his overarching strategy, how he wants to win matches in general
3. teach them the tactic he chose to then implement said strategy on the pitch

I think his treatment of Rashford and Garnacho shows that he is on a good way regarding 1.
When it comes to my second Point I fully agree with him, he mustn‘t waver with that.
3. however… couldn‘t he have begun with a system where the Players generally know the roles? And then in the next preaseason tell them alright you know what I want from you, now we‘ll use 343 to do it.
Unless of course his 343 is basically it when it comes to strategy.

I‘m just concerned that he might not be able to convince this fickle bunch of players that it will work at some point.
And splitting 2. and 3. could show improvements earlier than now, and with these feckers that could make the difference.

Thoughts?
 
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Rusholme Ruffian said:
The other way of looking at it is that by the start of next season we'll be 9 months into the rebuild. Waiting until the summer would have just been delaying the inevitable, and even with a preseason there's nowhere near enough time to do a full rebuild in one summer. We're ripping the plaster off at the moment so the wound can heal in fresh air, rather than tentatively peeling the corner off the plaster, deciding it hurts too much and just resticking it as best we can whilst the wound festers underneath.
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Yep, that's true as well - but it might be that an interim coach that's just scrambling for points might have won more points in these busy months, to let Amorim.tqkr.over in January.

But then there are lots of arguments either way. And none of those matter, cause Amorim is at United already now. :)
 
pascell said:
I expect us to get beat by Arsenal in the FA Cup, but going out of the EL wouldn't be the worst thing for us in the long term imo. We need to get the players on the training pitch and get them drilled in the way he wants to play. The longer we're playing 3 games a week, the more painful this is going to get.
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Disagree completely. I was annoyed when he made a lot of changes in the carabao Cup. We are not going to do anything in the league this season so we should be trying our best in the cups just to keep some interest in the season going. Can you imagine how bad the last few months of the season will be if we have literally nothing at all to play for.
 
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