Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[jem]

I'm the furthest thing from a rose-tinted, optimist type (I feel like 95% of my posts are negative), but I really feel like things are going in the right direction, however hard that might be to believe at the moment. Our results have been bad the past 3 games, but so much has been down to brain-dead mistakes that are no reflection on the system (Bruno's red, Onana's letting that corner fly in over him...ok our set-piece defending is definitely a concern.) I look at Ugarte and see a player who is definitely an Amorim-type player and the improvement in his play since Amorim took over has been marked. Get a few more of his kind of players in (we really need to find a way to do business in January), and I think it will be only a matter of time before things click.

Growing up, I was a huge Dallas Cowboys fan, and by the end of the Tom Landry era, the rot and complacency had truly set in. Jimmy Johnson came in and blew the whole thing up - the results were awful to begin with and there were calls for his head (and this was pre-internet, so you can only imagine how much more intense they would've been with social media) but he stuck to his plan and kept moving pieces around until eventually (and certainly not overnight) it all came together and there was no stopping them. I know it's a bit of an apples/oranges thing comparing two different teams from two different sports, but for the first time since Fergie, I feel like we have a visionary manager in, one who has the drive, charisma, and nous to get us back to where we belong. As fans, I really feel that we need to back him and trust his vision (and hopefully INEOS will do the same as well).

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I'm the furthest thing from a rose-tinted, optimist type (I feel like 95% of my posts are negative), but I really feel like things are going in the right direction, however hard that might be to believe at the moment. Our results have been bad the past 3 games, but so much has been down to brain-dead mistakes that are no reflection on the system (Bruno's red, Onana's letting that corner fly in over him...ok our set-piece defending is definitely a concern.) I look at Ugarte and see a player who is definitely an Amorim-type player and the improvement in his play since Amorim took over has been marked. Get a few more of his kind of players in (we really need to find a way to do business in January), and I think it will be only a matter of time before things click.

Growing up, I was a huge Dallas Cowboys fan, and by the end of the Tom Landry era, the rot and complacency had truly set in. Jimmy Johnson came in and blew the whole thing up - the results were awful to begin with and there were calls for his head (and this was pre-internet, so you can only imagine how much more intense they would've been with social media) but he stuck to his plan and kept moving pieces around until eventually (and certainly not overnight) it all came together and there was no stopping them. I know it's a bit of an apples/oranges thing comparing two different teams from two different sports, but for the first time since Fergie, I feel like we have a visionary manager in, one who has the drive, charisma, and nous to get us back to where we belong. As fans, I really feel that we need to back him and trust his vision (and hopefully INEOS will do the same as well).

Preach brother!

 

[bgoodall]

We really need to work on set piece defending. And moving in the opposition’s box without the ball. Those two areas need much improvement.

That said I also feel we were a bit unlucky with the ref this weekend and most of the fouls we got yellows for we shouldn’t have. That or wolves should have had at least an equal share as they were just as aggressive and somewhat wreckless. I actually don’t think they got a single card which is crazy.

 

[Tony247]

Time to settle for best 11 and less rotation.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Good point, it is well known that hair prevent the full use of our brains.

Baldy.

 

[JPRouve]

Baldy.

 

[Gandalf]

Time to settle for best 11 and less rotation.

I think he is closing in on that. Best 11 of what is available is obviously not even close to what he really wants but it seems like he has some definite preferences emerging from the current squad, now we need to see that best in class structure SJR bragged about find a way to get some sort of return from the busted flush that is Rashford and any of the others currently surplus to requirements so that we can add a couple of players suited to what Ruben is trying to accomplish. It won't be a one window job but we can certainly implement a couple of impactful changes and make the second half of the season more encouraging for all.

 

[Isotope]

In his famous interview, C.Ronaldo was talking about how every club he had been to had more modern infrastructure and facilities than United. Basically that the club had not progressed at all since the first time he was at the club. He also lashed out at the club for hiring Ragnick, whom he said nobody had ever heard about, and that he was not a coach.
I'm assuming he is sympathetic towards his fellow countryman in Amorim, and that he is thkinking about the above. In addition to the part about players not being nearly as professional as they should on and off the pitch.

That being said. I find it ridiculous that anyone are even thinking that the manager is unfit already. No pre-season. No transfers.
I'd even say that judging a manager after one full season is too quick.

Ragnick had no pre-season, no transfers, and not even a team of good coaches to help him. But most United fans, at least in here, still judged him very harshly.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I supported Ten Hag right up to his sacking despite it feeling completely irrational and stupid. Feels a lot more justified now. I'll take it as a sign to stick with Amorim as long as it takes, just dont think hes a problem or changing him will solve anything and I'll stick with that beyond the point where it feels rational or sensible. Feels like the job of supporters at this point in time.

It’s because of ten hag and the dross he brought in and the standards eroding we’re in the worst state we’ve been in

 

[dubplate warrior]

The way I see it Ruben has to achieve three things.
1. sort out the rotten culture in the dressingroom
2. teach the players his overarching strategy, how he wants to win matches in general
3. teach them the tactic he chose to then implement said strategy on the pitch

I think his treatment of Rashford and Garnacho shows that he is on a good way regarding 1.
When it comes to my second Point I fully agree with him, he mustn‘t waver with that.
3. however… couldn‘t he have begun with a system where the Players generally know the roles? And then in the next preaseason tell them alright you know what I want from you, now we‘ll use 343 to do it.
Unless of course his 343 is basically it when it comes to strategy.

I‘m just concerned that he might not be able to convince this fickle bunch of players that it will work at some point.
And splitting 2. and 3. could show improvements earlier than now, and with these feckers that could make the difference.

Thoughts?

The Rangnick season and last season taught us one thing, if this team tries to attack, we get battered. It's a mish mash of crap players who are overated and overpaid and can only really function if we sit deep and counter.

I said it elsewhere but if we want our club back we have to rip everything apart and let the manager start from scratch.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

I am all for giving time, and completely onboard with him taking tough decisions with regards to Rashford and Garnacho to improve culture within the club. I also understand that its a new system and will take players time to grasp ideas, positioning and decision making.

However i think some of his decisions are baffling and has contributed to this rot that is ongoing (relegation form) and he is just as much responsible as the players.

1) Pointless rotation, Won against City last minute, next match against decimated Spurs, why play a weakened team to throw away the game. Eventually losing the match at the weekend as well. Consistency and winning is a habit, it would have been great to beat spurs and get into semis of the cup and won two matches on the bounce.

2) Continued use of Bruno as wide CAM and Dalot as Left Wingback. Both of them stick out like a sore thumb. Bruno does not have the pace, physicality, dribbling or close control to play that role. Whereas Dalot does not have enough dribbling, game awareness or ability to take on full backs. The amount of times we get him one vs one against the full back is any winger's dream and he turns and passes it back losing all momentum.

3) Using two defensive full backs making this into 5 at the back. Why not use Antony as a RWB and try Maz as RCB or play Garnacho as LWB with Maz as RWB. We need at least one of the full backs to be wingers.

4) Lack of utilization of Cas and Eriksen, Why not try Eriksen/Mainoo as CAM from Left side, Eriksen may have similar issues (Pace, Athleticism) like Bruno, however he still uses the ball better and his first touch and consistency is better, plus his free kicks and corners at least clear the first man. Cas would be alright with Ugarte in the middle, plus will give us a good target on set pieces in both boxes.

5) Lack of adoptability in system. I realize he wants to play 3-4-3, but he can try some other system until we sign some players in Jan or summer. how about trying 4-4-2 diamond for example, we have two strikers (Hojlund and Zhirkee plus Amad/Garnacho/Rashford can play there if needed) Plus we have few midfielders in Mainoo, Bruno, Eriksen, Cas and Ugarte even Amad can play as a 10 or left side of Diamond like Di Maria. When we don't have good enough wingers or wing backs why not ditch the system which requires them?

Now we are coming into crunch time, hopefully he can turn this around, otherwise i am worried for him because i can see another 3 losses (Newcastle, Liverpool and Arsenal) if he does not change either the system/personnel in the upcoming matches.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Ha ha, I'm glad you took that in the spirit in which it was meant!

 

[pascell]

Disagree completely. I was annoyed when he made a lot of changes in the carabao Cup. We are not going to do anything in the league this season so we should be trying our best in the cups just to keep some interest in the season going. Can you imagine how bad the last few months of the season will be if we have literally nothing at all to play for.

We're not going to do anything in the EL either, I'd rather Amorim gets time on the training pitch to iron out some flaws, then we have a headstart on next season.

 

[RDCR07]

Probably time to think about a new manager.

Is he TOAST?

 

[Isotope]

Yep. It might also have made more sense to let Van Nistelrooij continue until he's crashed out of a few cups and Amorim could be hired and have more training time. Or whatever oyher scenario made more sense than the half-baked situation that United got themselves into now. But here we are, better roll with the punches now.

I always wonder about this. What is it with pre-season that a regular season time can't achieve, in terms of improving players and getting them to get comfortable with the tactic? Aren't actual games a much better barometer than friendly games to see how players improve?

 

[Zlatan 7]

Nobody wanted a mere system.

We wanted to win big trophies.

Yes, the easiest way to win trophies and be top dog is by using a very simple formula.. Which is having a way to play then upgrade it, season by season.
ETH didn't have this.


Now, this is where Amorim is failing.
1. Does it mean he needs 11 new experts to beat Wolves, Bournemouth, Ipswich or Spurs?

2. What guarantee do we have the new 11 experts will deliver success when he cants construct is ' ideal' team using the current players.

3. What if 343 is found out in EPL what next? Even mighty Pep has been found out.


As I said, give Amorim Liverpool team on July 2024, he would have dismantled the team and build it his way.

Now the problem is here, Liverpool are competing with ZERO investment done to the team. Even if Amorim would have made them champions it would have come at a cost ( dismantling the team).

So it's not linear as people are trying to make it.

Amorim needs to win games, how only him should know. But us, we need wins with what he has. Let him get the maximum from this group for people to trust he can deliver success if conditions are ideal.


Amorim has binned off Rashford, good or bad decision people will argue both ways, but results have tanked completely in the last few games. Does it mean Rashford can not contribute anything for us now?

Also we've been here before...

ETH binned off Ronaldo, we've have never had a striker score 17 goals in league ever since.
ETH binned off Sancho, Sancho is contributing in Chelsea

We are worse now as team than when they were here. Ronaldo told us, ETH is not a good coach, now it's an acceptable thing to claim ETH was a very poor coach.


As you see, binning off a Player doesn't always end up being positive for us as a club. Again I will say, a good coach usually plays with his available players to the maximum.


The signs are not positive as we speak, hopefully Amorim will turn the tide but people should be acceptable to the fact it can go wrong

Point 2. Give him a fecking chance ffs. He’s been here a month and we’re playing a match every 3 days. He’s had no time at all. Unbelievable

 

[Martinez4midfield]

The way I see it Ruben has to achieve three things.
1. sort out the rotten culture in the dressingroom
2. teach the players his overarching strategy, how he wants to win matches in general
3. teach them the tactic he chose to then implement said strategy on the pitch

I think his treatment of Rashford and Garnacho shows that he is on a good way regarding 1.
When it comes to my second Point I fully agree with him, he mustn‘t waver with that.
3. however… couldn‘t he have begun with a system where the Players generally know the roles? And then in the next preaseason tell them alright you know what I want from you, now we‘ll use 343 to do it.
Unless of course his 343 is basically it when it comes to strategy.

I‘m just concerned that he might not be able to convince this fickle bunch of players that it will work at some point.
And splitting 2. and 3. could show improvements earlier than now, and with these feckers that could make the difference.

Thoughts?

Think you make a an interesting point. Could definitely see some in the dressing room beginning to question his judgement of freezing out Rashford while they get slammed every week persisting with 343. Not that their opinion matters anyway.

 

[Camilo]

I don't think he'll last. At this rate he's going to piss off a lot of players this season, and end up with a squad who don't believe in him. Not his fault, having to come in when he did.

Be great if I was wrong. The January window needs to be incredible I reckon.

 

[Champ]

Point 2. Give him a fecking chance ffs. He’s been here a month and we’re playing a match every 3 days. He’s had no time at all. Unbelievable

If results are still the same at the end of January , what then?
Do we keep saying this? How long til he's had enough time?

I'm definitely not advocating pressuring Amorim, but he has zero excuses for the poor performances so far. The team has fallen even lower than under EtH, playing an alien system.
He needs to be held accountable, he doesn't need to be pressured though, the two don't always go hand in hand.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I'm the furthest thing from a rose-tinted, optimist type (I feel like 95% of my posts are negative), but I really feel like things are going in the right direction, however hard that might be to believe at the moment. Our results have been bad the past 3 games, but so much has been down to brain-dead mistakes that are no reflection on the system (Bruno's red, Onana's letting that corner fly in over him...ok our set-piece defending is definitely a concern.) I look at Ugarte and see a player who is definitely an Amorim-type player and the improvement in his play since Amorim took over has been marked. Get a few more of his kind of players in (we really need to find a way to do business in January), and I think it will be only a matter of time before things click.

Growing up, I was a huge Dallas Cowboys fan, and by the end of the Tom Landry era, the rot and complacency had truly set in. Jimmy Johnson came in and blew the whole thing up - the results were awful to begin with and there were calls for his head (and this was pre-internet, so you can only imagine how much more intense they would've been with social media) but he stuck to his plan and kept moving pieces around until eventually (and certainly not overnight) it all came together and there was no stopping them. I know it's a bit of an apples/oranges thing comparing two different teams from two different sports, but for the first time since Fergie, I feel like we have a visionary manager in, one who has the drive, charisma, and nous to get us back to where we belong. As fans, I really feel that we need to back him and trust his vision (and hopefully INEOS will do the same as well).

Great post, mate.

I was huge Cowboy fan growing up, until the Ravens moved to Baltimore in the 90s. Good call with Jimmy.

 

[JPRouve]

I always wonder about this. What is it with pre-season that a regular season time can't achieve, in terms of improving players and getting them to get comfortable with the tactic? Aren't actual games a much better barometer than friendly games to see how players improve?

It's the training sessions schedule that are different. It affects two things the ability to spend a lot of time on tactical details and each players getting used to their roles but also the roles of the teammates they interact the most with and then there is the coaching staff itself that needs to be familiar with the players, their tendencies and how they may understand or fail to understand certain things. Then the most important thing especially when you move to systems that have totally different roles requiring different sets of efforts, is the conditioning, our players conditioning was in theory tailored for ETH's main tactics and the roles he set, if you drastically change the set up and roles you have to reset the conditioning which is nearly impossible to do smoothly within the season.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I don't think he'll last. At this rate he's going to piss off a lot of players this season, and end up with a squad who don't believe in him. Not his fault, having to come in when he did.

Be great if I was wrong. The January window needs to be incredible I reckon.

Do we have any idea of funds available, or just normal media crud?

 

[Isotope]

It's the training sessions schedule that are different. It affects two things the ability to spend a lot of time on tactical details and each players getting used to their roles but also the roles of the teammates they interact the most with and then there is the coaching staff itself that needs to be familiar with the players, their tendencies and how they may understand or fail to understand certain things. Then the most important thing especially when you move to systems that have totally different roles requiring different sets of efforts, is the conditioning, our players conditioning was in theory tailored for ETH's main tactics and the roles he set, if you drastically change the set up and roles you have to reset the conditioning which is nearly impossible to do smoothly within the season.

All those can be implemented during regular season. When approaching actual games, they're talking about tactics. They're practicing tactics. They're implementing tactics. Players can get familiar in actual games, and in trainings they must also have. In terms to get familiar with players, what is so special about pre-season that interacting in regular season can't do?

Conditioning part is hard for me to comment, as I don't know much. But does it mean players need to have a certain period of only non-competitive games for this "conditioning" to be successful? As pre-season also involving games. Also we've been rotating heavily that sometimes to detriment of the team.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Agree. You can not say that Amorim has improved United already. It is early days, but there are no signs that this will go better than under ETH. Will Amorim win something with United like ETH did? I doubt that. And of course it is allowed to have a different opinion than most United fans.

I hope for the best for Amorim, but I just can not see it happen.

Ten hag absolutely ruined this team

 

[Garethw]

Mm

Ten hag absolutely ruined this team

And a good portion of the fans on this site demanded that he be kept on after the FA cup win.

That decision has probably fecked us for the next 2-3 years.

 

[Cheimoon]

All those can be implemented during regular season. When approaching actual games, they're talking about tactics. They're practicing tactics. They're implementing tactics. Players can get familiar in actual games, and in trainings they must also have.

Conditioning part is hard for me to comment, as I don't know much. But does it mean players need to have a certain period of only non-competitive games for this "conditioning" to be successful? As pre-season also involving games.

A lot of what happens on the pitch is pre-planned: triggers for runs or when the press happens, patterns of movement and passing, and so on and so forth. Players don't actually make a ton of creative decisions on those on the fly all the time; most of what happens are variants of patterns practiced in training until they became automatic - at which point the in-game creativity is more about being able to recognize what pattern fits a situation and improvising around it as required.

If that sounds like coaches are drilling things into players through a lot of repetition, then you got it exactly right. And that's exactly what you can't do during the season if you have midweek games. Teams generally have only one on-field training session per day during the regular season (sometimes two during pre-season, but not even always), and the day after the game is for recovery. I think the game before the day is match-specific prep (learning to anticipate things that are specific to the upcoming opponent, and specific routines that will work will against them), plus there are rest days - meaning that you often have only one day between matches to work on the routines.

That's really very little and means that drilling in routines during the season is very slow at top clubs. (It's better at lower levels, since they don't have European football and will often be eliminated from domestic cups earlier.) That's why pre-season is so massively important for a new coach. As it happens, I actually saw a reference on the forum today to a BBC article that discusses this:

"The manager of Manchester United can never, no matter what, be comfortable," said Amorim. "You can argue I have been here one month and I've had four training [sessions], but we are not winning. That is the reality."

(...)

The five-day gap between the home game with Newcastle on 30 December and an immensely difficult visit to old rivals and title favourites Liverpool on 5 January is the longest spell Amorim will have had to work with his players since his appointment.

He will have another spare week after that, then three more midweek games to work with a squad United sources say is not expected to change much in personnel during the January transfer window, because of the club's tight Profit and Sustainability position.

Evidently, it would have been far easier for such a dramatic transition to take place during the summer. Amorim did ask if his switch could be delayed until the end of the season but that request was rejected by Berrada.

"There's no point talking or thinking about that," said Amorim. "I'm here and have to focus on the job. "It's part of football to have these difficult moments. I already knew it was going to be tough. You expect to win more games, to have players with more confidence to sell the idea and to work and improve things. At this moment it's really hard. We have to survive to have time and then to improve the team."

Link: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cgm9evp4177o

For my purposes, the beginning is really the key part, when Amorim mentions (well, implies) that he has had only four sessions where they could really work on drilling in his system.

(To get back to my point from a few posts ago, the subsequent bit is also interesting, cause you can see that Amorim himself also thinks a summer transition would have been preferable; but it was apparently now or never for United, so he decided to go with it. Which in turn means that United management and Amorim are both very aware of the limitations of his current situation and how difficult that makes the transition to Amorim's style - and will likely back him through that even if results continue to be poor, as long as relegation isn't a real risk.)

But to go back to the topic of this post: so this shortness of training moments is a real thing. It's not a whiny coach looking for excuses, it's really the difficult reality of bringing significant change to a club mid-season.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It's been a long time since I was so bored with a United game. Anyone who didn't see that from the 20th minute there was only one team on the pitch that wanted to win must watch very little football! I took him off at half-time out of boredom and because I knew we were going to lose this game again! Many of the players lack quality and, above all, a cool head in the final metres to make that pass with a certain quality, Højlund looks like a headless chicken and is almost inconsequential in most games and the youth academy isn't up to par either... Amorin will be the next to suffer from this poor squad selection!

United Wolves was often a snore fest for years when Nuno was there, Ole trying to counter attack a team that refused to attack. It was awful after the red card but pretty standard before that.

 

[MonkeysMagic]

In my opinion, Amorim has tge potential to be an elite level coach, but he's having to work with incredibly mediocre players. If he had the time i.e. Pre-season training time, he might be able to develop some of these players into good players. There are simply too many poor players, technically/tactically, that can understand what he's asking them to do with little training time in between matches. I have seen enough football matches to understand that only 20-30% of the current playing squad will ever be good enough to compete for top 4, question is, will Amorim be given enough time and resources to replace 70% dross given constraints of PL spending?

 

[dubplate warrior]

I've seen Pep with a title winning squad containing the likes of peak Aguero and KDB scrape 4th on goal difference.

He got his players and the rest is history. We may never reach that level of success with Amorim but make no mistake, a manager who has an identity and style of play will always require players with specific profiles.

Back the manager, whether the storm and pray that we get recruitment right.

 

[Bastian]

A lot of what happens on the pitch is pre-planned: triggers for runs or when the press happens, patterns of movement and passing, and so on and so forth. Players don't actually make a ton of creative decisions on those on the fly all the time; most of what happens are variants of patterns practiced in training until they became automatic - at which point the in-game creativity is more about being able to recognize what pattern fits a situation and improvising around it as required.

If that sounds like coaches are drilling things into players through a lot of repetition, then you got it exactly right. And that's exactly what you can't do during the season if you have midweek games. Teams generally have only one on-field training session per day during the regular season (sometimes two during pre-season, but not even always), and the day after the game is for recovery. I think the game before the day is match-specific prep (learning to anticipate things that are specific to the upcoming opponent, and specific routines that will work will against them), plus there are rest days - meaning that you often have only one day between matches to work on the routines.

That's really very little and means that drilling in routines during the season is very slow at top clubs. (It's better at lower levels, since they don't have European football and will often be eliminated from domestic cups earlier.) That's why pre-season is so massively important for a new coach. As it happens, I actually saw a reference on the forum today to a BBC article that discusses this:

Link: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cgm9evp4177o

For my purposes, the beginning is really the key part, when Amorim mentions (well, implies) that he has had only four sessions where they could really work on drilling in his system.

(To get back to my point from a few posts ago, the subsequent bit is also interesting, cause you can see that Amorim himself also thinks a summer transition would have been preferable; but it was apparently now or never for United, so he decided to go with it. Which in turn means that United management and Amorim are both very aware of the limitations of his current situation and how difficult that makes the transition to Amorim's style - and will likely back him through that even if results continue to be poor, as long as relegation isn't a real risk.)

But to go back to the topic of this post: so this shortness of training moments is a real thing. It's not a whiny coach looking for excuses, it's really the difficult reality of bringing significant change to a club mid-season.

Great post. I think a lot of people are not quite understanding this.

 

[Ace Krampus]

3. however… couldn‘t he have begun with a system where the Players generally know the roles? And then in the next preaseason tell them alright you know what I want from you, now we‘ll use 343 to do it.
Unless of course his 343 is basically it when it comes to strategy.

Well hey, I really don't think we're getting relegated this season. It seems impossible we won't regress to the mean at some point and finish somewhere from 10-15th at worst. So really, what difference does it make if he shoehorns in the tactics now or later, if that's the end goal either way? I'm a believer in a coach managing based on the talent he has, rather than dogmatically sticking to a system, but if this guy wants to die on this hill, then you might as well force it now and see if any of the players you'd want to retain can hack it.

 

[MO_Football92]

The way I see it Ruben has to achieve three things.
1. sort out the rotten culture in the dressingroom
2. teach the players his overarching strategy, how he wants to win matches in general
3. teach them the tactic he chose to then implement said strategy on the pitch

I think his treatment of Rashford and Garnacho shows that he is on a good way regarding 1.
When it comes to my second Point I fully agree with him, he mustn‘t waver with that.
3. however… couldn‘t he have begun with a system where the Players generally know the roles? And then in the next preaseason tell them alright you know what I want from you, now we‘ll use 343 to do it.
Unless of course his 343 is basically it when it comes to strategy.

I‘m just concerned that he might not be able to convince this fickle bunch of players that it will work at some point.
And splitting 2. and 3. could show improvements earlier than now, and with these feckers that could make the difference.

Thoughts?

Yh, 3 is exactly what Wenger did with Arsenal years ago. The next season, we won the league

 

[Steve 007]

The way I see it Ruben has to achieve three things.
1. sort out the rotten culture in the dressingroom
2. teach the players his overarching strategy, how he wants to win matches in general
3. teach them the tactic he chose to then implement said strategy on the pitch

I think his treatment of Rashford and Garnacho shows that he is on a good way regarding 1.
When it comes to my second Point I fully agree with him, he mustn‘t waver with that.
3. however… couldn‘t he have begun with a system where the Players generally know the roles? And then in the next preaseason tell them alright you know what I want from you, now we‘ll use 343 to do it.
Unless of course his 343 is basically it when it comes to strategy.

I‘m just concerned that he might not be able to convince this fickle bunch of players that it will work at some point.
And splitting 2. and 3. could show improvements earlier than now, and with these feckers that could make the difference.

Thoughts?

Ten Hag said he had adapt his tactics to the players. We didn’t like that. Amorim has said whatever happened in the past didn’t work, we change now and suffer or we continue and suffer less but in 12 months we are still in the same position. I’m on board, change is difficult and has good and bad moments. How do the players adapt, who can make the change, who wants to?

 

[Zlatan 7]

If results are still the same at the end of January , what then?
Do we keep saying this? How long til he's had enough time?

I'm definitely not advocating pressuring Amorim, but he has zero excuses for the poor performances so far. The team has fallen even lower than under EtH, playing an alien system.
He needs to be held accountable, he doesn't need to be pressured though, the two don't always go hand in hand.

Yeah I’m still saying it at the end of January. That’s a whopping whole two months of him being here. Ten hag was here 3 years almost and ruined the place and people were still backing him to the very end.

It’s fallen lower than under ten hag? Again, this is ten hags dross that someone has had to come in and try to do something with while playing two matches a week. It’s honestly baffling to me how they can be compared

 

[Zlatan 7]

Why was my post in here deleted for pointing out the double standards of a certain poster who defended one manager to the end but loves jumping on this one after a few weeks? Can’t you just delete all his posts instead

 

[Laurencio]

INEOS have to find money for reinforcements in January, without a LwB and Striker this is going to get very ugly at this rate.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Disagree completely. I was annoyed when he made a lot of changes in the carabao Cup. We are not going to do anything in the league this season so we should be trying our best in the cups just to keep some interest in the season going. Can you imagine how bad the last few months of the season will be if we have literally nothing at all to play for.

I think the Europa league is our best bet. Some really poor teams in the cup and less physically imposing teams.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If results are still the same at the end of January , what then?
Do we keep saying this? How long til he's had enough time?

I'm definitely not advocating pressuring Amorim, but he has zero excuses for the poor performances so far. The team has fallen even lower than under EtH, playing an alien system.
He needs to be held accountable, he doesn't need to be pressured though, the two don't always go hand in hand.

I get the impression there’s a number of people on here who are so keen to criticise the bloke they’re using a hypothetical future that hasn’t happened yet to have a go at him. How’s about we hold off on discussing a terrible run of results that goes on until the end of January until after all those bad results actually happen?!?

Oh and “zero excuses”? Come on now.

At the end of the day we’re judging Amorim on such a small sample size of games that it’s impossible to form any definitive conclusions, good or bad. Too many variables in terms of difficulty of fixtures, opposition performance, individual errors, (lack of) time on the training pitch etc etc etc It’s frustrating to have to cool our jets and just let a few more games happen before deciding if he’s good or shit. Especially when everyone wants to vent after a couple of disappointing results. But that’s what needs to happen. And if everyone would just chill the feck out meanwhile then the caf would be a much nicer place to hang out on.

 

[alexthelion]

18 points to the magical 40 to stay in the Premier league. I just don't know where we're getting the points from at this point. Its worrying.

this formation isn't working. if he doesn't recognize that we're fooked.

Don't panic Captain Mainwaring.

 

[Saunteraway]

The Rangnick season and last season taught us one thing, if this team tries to attack, we get battered. It's a mish mash of crap players who are overated and overpaid and can only really function if we sit deep and counter.

I said it elsewhere but if we want our club back we have to rip everything apart and let the manager start from scratch.

The problem with the ripping apart part is that you have to be a nasty pr*ck at times, (looking at you Arteta and Klopp) and so far I‘m not sure Ruben has that in him…

Think you make a an interesting point. Could definitely see some in the dressing room beginning to question his judgement of freezing out Rashford while they get slammed every week persisting with 343. Not that their opinion matters anyway.

It shouldn‘t matter, but this dressing room is so devoid of professionalism and pride that they just down tools rather than keep going even if they‘re not convinced.

Well hey, I really don't think we're getting relegated this season. It seems impossible we won't regress to the mean at some point and finish somewhere from 10-15th at worst. So really, what difference does it make if he shoehorns in the tactics now or later, if that's the end goal either way? I'm a believer in a coach managing based on the talent he has, rather than dogmatically sticking to a system, but if this guy wants to die on this hill, then you might as well force it now and see if any of the players you'd want to retain can hack it.

You say it is impossible, I disagree (with the not regressing to the norm , relegation being highly unlikely i‘m with you).
These players don‘t give a feck.
And if it should get to the point where it is clear that the players don‘t trust him anymore, he might lack the experience to deal with the pressure that will Mason with every week gone by.