Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

lolok said:
How else do you prefer Amorin teach the players his system? Training and matches are the way for players to learn.

I don't what you expect here. This squad isn't great thanks to poor purchases for a decade. The squad isn't in great physical shape, thanks to the previous manager. You want him to start playing guys 3 times every 8 days? What will happen? There will be more injuries and overall play will suffer from fatigue. He needs to rotate (for now.) He needs to figure out which players have got it in them, and which players who don't and can be offloaded in the summer.

Amorin is pulling a Klopp. Klopp came in October I think, so he too didn't get the benefit of a preseason. Klopp finished on 60 points, when they finished on 62 the year prior. Klopp spent the season coaching the players in his system and it paid off the following year when they finished 4th. It took until his 4th year!! to have the team humming, but fortunately City was still a bit better than them that year.

Klopp is world class manager, and it took him until his 4th year to turn them into title contenders. Took SAF 7 years to win a title. IDK what fans want. Some want to be delusional thinking that it should be an instant quick fix. It's not. Right now, it's all about the players learning the system, playing better and the manager figuring out who will stay and who will go in the offseason.

If you can't stomach the pain that the rest of the season will bring-- do something else with your life. There are going to be some good wins, and some bad losses. Its not going to be easy. Pep took over a team that won the title twice and were runners up twice in the 5 years before he arrived. He inherited a really good squad that included Aguero, DeBruyne, Silva, Kompany, Toure, Sterling, FErnandinho and more. Much more quality than what Amorin, Klopp or SAF had to work with when they took over.

The objective for the rest of the season is to try and win. But for players to learn the system, the manager to learn the players, and then have a successful offseason of buying and selling players to give Amorin a shot at 4th place next season.

I like the rotation right now if I'm a player. The manager is giving every player a chance, they either take that chance and perform well or they don't. Players can't be upset if they given the opportunity and failed. (Well grown up, mature players won't be upset.) Previous managers stuck by players for too long, and didn't give others a chance.

The club is paying the price for bad purchases-- it's going to take 2 more summer transfers of good signings while offloading poor signings at the same time. The club can't just spend 400mm to try and fix the team in 1 offseason. It's going to take time.
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I agree with a lot of what you said.

However, just because we would like Amorim to do for us what Klopp did for Liverpool, doesn't mean he's pulling a Klopp. At least not yet.

So far, we've just achieved the "losing to midtable teams" part of Klopp's first season. Under him, Liverpool had quite a few games where they showed what things could look like if everything clicked. Like the 4-1 and 3-0 thrashings of City, making it to the league cup final against City only to lose on penalties, not to mention beating us and a strong Dortmund en route to the EL final.
 
Malone_Post said:
With Sporting already sacking his successor and his reign at United so far turning into a disaster, I could realistically see a scenario play out where he’s back at Sporting by the start of next season.

He just looks absolutely shellshocked at the task facing him. That initial childlike excitement has completely gone from him. Feel really sorry for the bloke tbh because he seems like a genuinely top person. But deep down he must be wondering what on earth he’s walked into.
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Not at all. He literally said before his first game that there was going to be a very tough period, the guy is probably the only manager we have had post-Fergie that is fully aware of how hard this is going to be.
 
Well, some of you are so clueless it's painful.

If a kid goes to school 1st September and start to learn a new language, let's say Russian. All class starts at the same time, 34 people, new language. Not every week in everyone will be on the same level, not every test everyone will be on the same level - the whole 34 of them. Adapting to new things takes time and work.

New formations, we positions, new player roles takes time.

That was said on the very first interview when Amorim was appointed, everyone who took a second to listen, read and watch the interviews and the analytical videos knew that.


None of you did, and it shows.
 
Malone_Post said:
With Sporting already sacking his successor and his reign at United so far turning into a disaster, I could realistically see a scenario play out where he’s back at Sporting by the start of next season.

He just looks absolutely shellshocked at the task facing him. That initial childlike excitement has completely gone from him. Feel really sorry for the bloke tbh because he seems like a genuinely top person. But deep down he must be wondering what on earth he’s walked into.
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Back at Sporting by the end of the season. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Behave
 
My first post guys so go easy on me

Just want to start off saying I’m 100% behind Amorim and respect that he’s come in at the worst possible time but has the right heart and commitment to his system and knows we will be better off for it in the long run. We just need to ride out this storm (probably worse of a storm than anticipated but he was right! It was coming!)

I really believe that INEOS made a massive error keeping ETH but I’m sick of hearing that we should have kept RVN until the summer!! Amorim was highly highly in demand!! I think INEOS knew he would be snapped up by someone else and had to pounce now!!!! That’s the sole reason he’s come in at this point and I think it was the right choice. let’s hope they stick with it as if they change the manager AGAIN (especially one who hasn’t yet had the opportunity to do a clear out or bring in any players yet), I will be done!!

Forget the media articles/opposing supporters etc!! We are the money making clickbait team of the Premier League!! Without us, what else would they write about/get their engagement! Chelsea, Arsenal etc were allowed to cook without the glaring eyes of the World following their every move!! Even Klopp at Liverpool went much more under the radar!! We are a juggernaut which is why there is this hysteria.

I’d rather support him than any of the shower we call players any day!! Why should we support them!!

Let’s keep calm, accept that these setbacks are part of the process and I will see you all back here this time next season and we can see if I’m right
 
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I have all faith in him.
we have some needs obviously.
In priority
A new goalkeper ( we cant keep giving away stupid goals with errors from Onana)
A forward who can score
A new left sided defender ( I'd use our buy back clause for Alvaro)
A midfielder to complement Ugarte ( Ederson from Atalanta, Wharton from CP or Zubimendi from Sociedad)
 
Superunknown said:
I've been living in Bournemouth for the last decade and a half and it was interesting observing how this whole situation played out. Gary O'Neil was a popular manager and many were quite vocal about him deserving a proper crack at the job. Imo, he did enough to deserve more time with the job, but the board clearly wanted a certain style of football and wanted to go in a different direction.

Iraola came in and the results were rough for a while. He didn't win a PL match for his first 9 or so attempts, but then the results steadily improved. In those first few months, the fans were extremely patient and knew it wasn't going to work straightaway. Many were very unsure, but knew that he needed time, so they gave it to him. You will always get pockets here and there that will call for the managers head, but (from what I saw, at least), this was largely drowned out by the supporters who were on-board. Fast-forward to now and he's a huge favourite amongst the fans. Credit to their board for recognising that he was a talented manager and the right appointment in the first place, but credit to Iraola for not panicking and for sticking to his principles.

On the contrary, the more I think about our situation, the more I wish we had pulled the trigger on ETH sooner and gone with Amorim in the summer. We timed this very poorly. He's switched countries and leagues not even halfway through the season, with no real time to actually spend on the training pitch working with the squad and embedding his ideas and principles. We're asking a lot of him. The club have clearly identified him for his specific style of football and that includes his method of playing with a very specific formation. We really needed a pre-season with him working alongside the players to get them all on-board and understanding what the expectations are for playing in this manner. On top of that, he needed time to bring new players in to help us with this new system. The more I reflect on this, the more I feel that the timing was very poor and is to our detriment. It means that we have to go through the pain for longer. If a club like Bournemouth can recognise and see this beforehand and plan in accordance, why is a club like Manchester United so poor at doing the exact same thing? We plan poorly, we time it poorly, and we recruit (specifically players, because I do think Amorim is the right appointment) poorly, and therefore we perform poorly.
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Yeah, it seemed O'Neil was hard done by and there was a lot of noise about Wolves beating them during that run. There's less pressure and expectation at Bournemouth and I think that kind of allows someone to come in and the fans will be patient.

At Utd, there's this idea that the players are better, so any coach coming in should be expected to do more in a shorter space of time.
Personally, I'll be taking this period between now and the start of next August as one long pre season. Where Ruben Amorim can implement his ideas, get some new players in and forget about winning cups or getting back into Europe next season. A game a week and more time on the training pitch is what him and the players need.
 
Don't know if it has been posted yet, but there seem to be some new quotes from Amorim. A snippet:

“In this moment we just have to survive and to win some time to work on the team. We already knew it. I started this job, with the team, the new idea, without any time to train, with a lot of tough games. It is a long journey. We have to continue to fight these bad moments. We need time to work. We also have to win games to sell the idea to the players. If not, it is really hard.”

I find the "we also have to win games to sell the idea to the players" bit particularly interesting. Does that signal his openness to a change in formation and tactics?
 
Oranges038 said:
Yeah, it seemed O'Neil was hard done by and there was a lot of noise about Wolves beating them during that run. There's less pressure and expectation at Bournemouth and I think that kind of allows someone to come in and the fans will be patient.

At Utd, there's this idea that the players are better, so any coach coming in should be expected to do more in a shorter space of time.
Personally, I'll be taking this period between now and the start of next August as one long pre season. Where Ruben Amorim can implement his ideas, get some new players in and forget about winning cups or getting back into Europe next season. A game a week and more time on the training pitch is what him and the players need.
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People misinterpret costing a lot of money with being a good player. No at times it is just we have been sold a pup.
 
343 said:
Don't know if it has been posted yet, but there seem to be some new quotes from Amorim. A snippet:

“In this moment we just have to survive and to win some time to work on the team. We already knew it. I started this job, with the team, the new idea, without any time to train, with a lot of tough games. It is a long journey. We have to continue to fight these bad moments. We need time to work. We also have to win games to sell the idea to the players. If not, it is really hard.”

I find the "we also have to win games to sell the idea to the players" bit particularly interesting. Does that signal his openness to a change in formation and tactics?
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I hope not. If the 343 is what he really believes in, then go for it.

The problem is how to train the 343 in the shortest time possible, while still not losing 80% of your matches while experimenting. It's a really tough problem, but I guess that's why we paid 11m to release him from his contract.
 
The creature at Liverpool got to two cup finals in his first season. Amorim will be lucky if he gets two players looking competent in his first season.
 
343 said:
I find the "we also have to win games to sell the idea to the players" bit particularly interesting. Does that signal his openness to a change in formation and tactics?
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How do you "sell the.idea" by changing your systems and trying to scrape cheap wins like we were doing before? The formation and the tactics ARE the idea.

In a quest to read something into it, you have understood nothing.
 
spiriticon said:
I hope not. If the 343 is what he really believes in, then go for it.

The problem is how to train the 343 in the shortest time possible, while still not losing 80% of your matches while experimenting. It's a really tough problem, but I guess that's why we paid 11m to release him from his contract.
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I hope not too for the medium to long term. But since he is not able to train the team in the formation because of the busy schedule anyway, I wonder if it may be prudent to adopt a slightly pragmatic approach until the end of January or so? Get a few results, not so much to stop the chatter in the media, but to ensure that the confidence of these players does not totally tank.

But then again no formation or tactics will work if our players keep making these quite unbelievable individual mistakes game after game.
 
Orange Tree said:
persisting with Bruno every match and keep moving him around wasn't the greatest idea. He should be played in one position and let him become comfortable in his new role.

At the moment he just plays his usual game regardless of where he plays.
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Short and sweet, a good post.
 
343 said:
Don't know if it has been posted yet, but there seem to be some new quotes from Amorim. A snippet:

“In this moment we just have to survive and to win some time to work on the team. We already knew it. I started this job, with the team, the new idea, without any time to train, with a lot of tough games. It is a long journey. We have to continue to fight these bad moments. We need time to work. We also have to win games to sell the idea to the players. If not, it is really hard.”

I find the "we also have to win games to sell the idea to the players" bit particularly interesting. Does that signal his openness to a change in formation and tactics?
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Not at all, it feels like he's saying we need to win games in a 3-4-3 formation and then the players will start buying into it.
 
SirMattBugsby said:
Yeah, he can't do anything about the LB problem. What he can do, though, is play Mainoo, Mazraoui, Bruno, Garnacho and to some extent even Amad and Lisandro in their right positions.

I think he's overcomplicating it. All he had to do was learn from ten Hag's mistakes. Make Amad a starter and shift Bruno to midfield to provide more legs and cover for the holding 6 (Casemiro/Ugarte). Instead, he's made an already messy situation messier.
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If we wanted that then we shouldn’t have hired him. Just like hiring Pep, Arteta or anybody else with a strict vision would be a mistake if that’s what you’re looking for. Go for another Moyes or the like who will try to cobble something together with what we have, without ever making steps towards something that is more sustainable and could potentially win titles. In fact, we should have just kept any of Ten Hag, Ruud or Ole.

But then we’d be here saying “I don’t see what the vision is”, “why can’t we control games?” Etc. I’m not saying this will be a success, only time will tell. But for once we’ve hired a coach with a vision who will not abandon his principles. Something I thought we all wanted?
 
L1nk said:
People want us to revert to type so we win a few matches, all is "well" until it all drops off again and Amorim is sacked in a season or two, next manager comes in etc.

There are those that say the entire club needs redoing from top to bottom, the problem is the same people who think the patience to see it through. Even if we are trash this season and barely make top half of the table, it NEEDS to to happen, otherwise there will never be any kind of reset, there will never be any kind of grand sweeping changes people are asking for.

You want Ralf Rangnicks open heart surgery? You have to come to terms with the fact shit like this is going to happen.

Anybody suggesting Amorim needs to change back to the old system or whatever is dumb at this point, you just keep wanting us to tread water constantly as we have for years and years and years.
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no, we are saying win a few matches and change once we have some new players through the door. How can you play 343/532 without decent cbs and wing backs? Its ludicrus. Half the team will be shipped out anyway, so whats the point in teaching them a new system only to be replaced at the earliest transfer window?

Nothing will change unless there is a mass exodus of current players and a swathe of new players come in. You can change the manager as much as you like, its not going to help in the short term.
 
golden_blunder said:
I don’t know you from Adam, I had no way to tell that your post was tongue in cheek
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You weren't meant to. I was just being an annoying little cnut for my own amusement. I stand amused. Mission accomplished.

I am a little concerned though. The state of the team yesterday was shiite.
 
pocco said:
If we wanted that then we shouldn’t have hired him. Just like hiring Pep, Arteta or anybody else with a strict vision would be a mistake if that’s what you’re looking for. Go for another Moyes or the like who will try to cobble something together with what we have, without ever making steps towards something that is more sustainable and could potentially win titles. In fact, we should have just kept any of Ten Hag, Ruud or Ole.

But then we’d be here saying “I don’t see what the vision is”, “why can’t we control games?” Etc. I’m not saying this will be a success, only time will tell. But for once we’ve hired a coach with a vision who will not abandon his principles. Something I thought we all wanted?
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Moyes would actually be perfect for anyone wanting immediate results now. He’d probably be able to get us far in Europa League and likely to steer us to a comfortable mid table finish in the league. For anyone prioritizing short term results over long term development, there are very few managers that are better than him in PL.
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
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Very interesting, it seems the management is fully behind Amorim and they support him, case in point, Rashford's exile is all Amorim and the management is with him on it.

Initially, I wanted Amorim to achieve something with this group, like top 6 finish and with every game, it feels like a pipe dream, this group is totally hopeless, I hate to say it but an overhaul is needed here, it should happen slowly though, bit by bit.
 
Wrecking ralf said:
Tbh this is exactly how we thought it was gonna go. We know all about our current squad and what it offers. There are a few decent players, a load of squad level players, some who's legs have gone and some who aren't good enough period. Nobody was going to come in and make this squad play above its level as the work rate, and talent level won't allow it.

What was going to happen is Amorim was going to get an extended period of finding out who is up to the level required, who can adapt to his system, and who simply isn't up to it and needs to be shipped out. We also were going to have to go through a period of bad results that showed the overall level of the squad with regards to how we intend to play under Ruben, and ultimately, the recruitment needed to get us to the satisfactory level we need to be at.

It's from that satisfactory point that the team begins to gel as a TEAM, not as the squad of individuals that we currently have. We can't expect anything immediately, and Ruben himself even told us, we are going to go through difficult moments on this journey before we start to consistently see proper results. It is not a quick fix, but we've got the man in charge that can fix it. We need patience and the right recruitment/sales to ensure we make the most of this opportunity.

This season is basically an extended pre season now, given that we waited until a month ago to make the managerial change we knew that we needed. Only after the summer transfer window can we properly start to judge the actual process of the team.
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Exactly this. I’m surprised at the reaction really when we all knew this was a very distinct possibility.

I had hoped that some of our players were better than they were showing under ETH or that some would find a new lease of life in the new system, but unfortunately that’s not really been the case bar a couple of players. And the players with upside who weren’t looking great under ETH have just not really fit into the system, like Garnacho.

I think the system has helped certain players like some of our CBs, and our midfield looks less stretched and exposed. But our attack looks poor still and obviously there’s issues with set pieces. On top of that, the mental fragility of the players is still there and the inability to break teams down is still there.

We all hoped this wouldn’t happen and that we’d see the same resurgence that Tuchel or Conte got when they took over at Chelsea, but it doesn’t always work like that. I’d draw more parallels to the start Arteta made, if we’re looking for a positive.
 
Sarni said:
Moyes would actually be perfect for anyone wanting immediate results now. He’d probably be able to get us far in Europa League and likely to steer us to a comfortable mid table finish in the league. For anyone prioritizing short term results over long term development, there are very few managers that are better than him in PL.
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That’s what they want now, but weren’t happy with under ETH. But if we hired Moyes then they’d be asking why we’ve not hired an “up and coming coach with a clear vision”. Basically we have a confused fan base that doesn’t know what they want apart from instant gratification. They don’t want any sort of lead in time to success, no hardship or poor players still being poor players. It has to be magically fixed and we have to be better than everybody else immediately.
 
Marwood said:
Apart from the wingbacks what's so specialist about the players roles?

The two midfielders. What's so different in this system from when they're in a 4213?
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3 at the back, two number 10s getting in each other's space, wingbacks. All different and requires specialist players.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
Very interesting, it seems the management is fully behind Amorim and they support him, case in point, Rashford's exile is all Amorim and the management is with him on it.

Initially, I wanted Amorim to achieve something with this group, like top 6 finish and with every game, it feels like a pipe dream, this group is totally hopeless, I hate to say it but an overhaul is needed here, it should happen slowly though, bit by bit.
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Hopefully Ratcliffe and co are committed to supporting him. Ashworth was supposed to be with us for the long haul and that didn't last long.

If we end up in a relegation battle it might be difficult for them not to make a change
 
Dolf said:
Mate why are you so sensitive? I’m not allowed to have my own opinion?
All i’ve said is that I don’t think he will be get better results than EtH. That doesn’t mean I don’t support him this season and no, it also doesn’t mean I can’t call myself a fan. Stop gatekeeping.
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So you’re allowed to say whatever you want cause it’s your opinion but if I give my opinion it’s sensitive and gate keeping?
 
Looks worrying that Ineos Team is making major mistakes after mistakes.

1) Keep ETH beyond last season was catastrophic. He finished 8th with no style of play after spending half a billion.
2) Spent another 200m on players to play ETH's style of play only to sack him a few months later
3) Sacked a DOF - Ashworth a few months later too after he disagreed with the approach to appoint Amorim.
4) Appoint a manager - Amorim with a style of play that totally not suited to our current set of players.
5) We need another total rebuild and sign new players to play Amorim's style. Suddenly we now have a squad of deadwood. Deja Vu?
6) Changing a manager mid-season where the style of play is not compatible with the existing squad and restriction on signing players in Jan due to FFP/whatnot is suicidal. In hindsight, the better option was to keep RVN as interim?
7) There is no continuity in football side of things. Who is in charge now since Ashworth is gone as DOF? Berrada? Wilcox? Why are we in this mess again and again?

Hope Amorim can improve the team drastically soon to save the season with the current set of players. I don't think he will get any key signings in Jan window given our financial situation. So far it looks bleak and we still don't have an effective style of play at all.

Having said that, Amorim deserve more time. But he has to do much better than this. At the end of this season, at the minimum we need to have a clear effective style of play that we are building for next season. And he needs to finish higher than 8th. No Man Utd manager should survive finishing 8th.
 
He's already making excuses like Ten Hag. Not enough time on the training pitch, I need new signings etc. A coach has to get the best out of what's available to him first and foremost and he's not doing it so far.
 
Socratic said:
There is a lack of logic with Amorim's ideals and practices.
A football manager's job is to get the most out of the players available to him.

With that in mind do we think the current problems with Utd are due to his system or player ability?
If it's the system then it needs discarded promptly.

If player quality, shouldn't a good manager implement tactics that leverages their best qualities and minimises the exposure of their deficiencies?
If the answer is yes then isn't playing a system that does the opposite downright negligence?

If the argument against this is it will get better with better players then why on earth are we burning games trying to educate players to play a system they won't be a part of at the first opportunity?
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There are lots of different kinds of managers.

Some managers can play with lots of different formations and mindsets.
Some managers are able to take a look at their squad and adapt accordingly.
And some managers can only play a certain way. That's not a problem if they can get the team to perform well, but it might mean that they'll take longer and require some specific types of players.

Amorim is a young manager and he can only play a certain way. His way... and his way has been proven to get results (titles and good football) so far, but it takes time.

If you wanted someone to come in and get the team decent immediately you should have gone for someone else. But would they be as good in the long run?
 
Blood Mage said:
He's already making excuses like Ten Hag. Not enough time on the training pitch, I need new signings etc. A coach has to get the best out of what's available to him first and foremost and he's not doing it so far.
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Blood Mage said:
A coach has to be pragmatic in situations like this and we're not seeing it from this guy at the moment. Add to that his recent baffling isolation of Casemiro which looks like a shocking decision as he's our best midfielder.
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Blood Mage said:
It shouldn't be allowed to continue. Some posters on here would accept relegation in exchange for giving Amorim time, and a few of them would have gladly seen us do the same with Ten Hag.

I'm not saying get Big Sam in, but if this form continues well into January sack this guy and get a coach in who can get this team organised and playing in a shape they feel comfortable in. Or we will just keep losing.
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Blood Mage said:
It's not ridiculous though we look hopeless and he's not making any meaningful tweaks to change things in games. Two more league losses against Newcastle and Liverpool will leave us hovering above the relegation zone.
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Blood Mage said:
Again, this is nonsense. A manager who uses a system that's actually suitable for our squad would be a big boost.
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Blood Mage said:
I think if we remain on the current trajectory this is the most likely scenario. If it continues to be this bad though we will have a new coach soon.
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You are insufferable. Just log off.
 
343 said:
Don't know if it has been posted yet, but there seem to be some new quotes from Amorim. A snippet:

“In this moment we just have to survive and to win some time to work on the team. We already knew it. I started this job, with the team, the new idea, without any time to train, with a lot of tough games. It is a long journey. We have to continue to fight these bad moments. We need time to work. We also have to win games to sell the idea to the players. If not, it is really hard.”

I find the "we also have to win games to sell the idea to the players" bit particularly interesting. Does that signal his openness to a change in formation and tactics?
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He's saying that when the new ideas are implemented and results are good the players will buy into his ideas because it's working essentially helping their confidence.
 
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