Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Tbh this is exactly how we thought it was gonna go. We know all about our current squad and what it offers. There are a few decent players, a load of squad level players, some who's legs have gone and some who aren't good enough period. Nobody was going to come in and make this squad play above its level as the work rate, and talent level won't allow it.

What was going to happen is Amorim was going to get an extended period of finding out who is up to the level required, who can adapt to his system, and who simply isn't up to it and needs to be shipped out. We also were going to have to go through a period of bad results that showed the overall level of the squad with regards to how we intend to play under Ruben, and ultimately, the recruitment needed to get us to the satisfactory level we need to be at.

It's from that satisfactory point that the team begins to gel as a TEAM, not as the squad of individuals that we currently have. We can't expect anything immediately, and Ruben himself even told us, we are going to go through difficult moments on this journey before we start to consistently see proper results. It is not a quick fix, but we've got the man in charge that can fix it. We need patience and the right recruitment/sales to ensure we make the most of this opportunity.

This season is basically an extended pre season now, given that we waited until a month ago to make the managerial change we knew that we needed. Only after the summer transfer window can we properly start to judge the actual process of the team.
 
It's kind of wild how each post-Fergie manager has left behind a mess of a squad. ETH done great to win a cup and get 3rd after inheriting Ole's shambles. Now Amorim has taken on a really poor squad left behind by ETH.

Amorim has a huge task on his hands. I honestly would bin off 90% of this squad.
 
Robbie Boy said:
It's kind of wild how each post-Fergie manager has left behind a mess of a squad. ETH done great to win a cup and get 3rd after inheriting Ole's shambles. Now Amorim has taken on a really poor squad left behind by ETH.

Amorim has a huge task on his hands. I honestly would bin off 90% of this squad.
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Yep. People say “oh he has to get the best out of these players we spent 600m on” but the reality is there aren’t any tactics in football that are ideal for a squad that is full of players that either aren’t athletic enough or technical enough.

Sure we could revert back to 4231 transition ball and let Bruno roam etc but ultimately that’s just going to be putting a temporary solution while prolonging the inevitable. Right now these players are being exposed for what they are, because you can see the system putting them in good positions and then the individual utterly fails, instead of some of those preclvious times with ETH where the excuse could be made that players weren’t set up to succeed.
 
Oranges038 said:
It does in a way.

The people mentioning Iraola would be sweating lava with 1 win in 10 and obviously didn't pay attention to Bournemouth last year.
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I've been living in Bournemouth for the last decade and a half and it was interesting observing how this whole situation played out. Gary O'Neil was a popular manager and many were quite vocal about him deserving a proper crack at the job. Imo, he did enough to deserve more time with the job, but the board clearly wanted a certain style of football and wanted to go in a different direction.

Iraola came in and the results were rough for a while. He didn't win a PL match for his first 9 or so attempts, but then the results steadily improved. In those first few months, the fans were extremely patient and knew it wasn't going to work straightaway. Many were very unsure, but knew that he needed time, so they gave it to him. You will always get pockets here and there that will call for the managers head, but (from what I saw, at least), this was largely drowned out by the supporters who were on-board. Fast-forward to now and he's a huge favourite amongst the fans. Credit to their board for recognising that he was a talented manager and the right appointment in the first place, but credit to Iraola for not panicking and for sticking to his principles.

On the contrary, the more I think about our situation, the more I wish we had pulled the trigger on ETH sooner and gone with Amorim in the summer. We timed this very poorly. He's switched countries and leagues not even halfway through the season, with no real time to actually spend on the training pitch working with the squad and embedding his ideas and principles. We're asking a lot of him. The club have clearly identified him for his specific style of football and that includes his method of playing with a very specific formation. We really needed a pre-season with him working alongside the players to get them all on-board and understanding what the expectations are for playing in this manner. On top of that, he needed time to bring new players in to help us with this new system. The more I reflect on this, the more I feel that the timing was very poor and is to our detriment. It means that we have to go through the pain for longer. If a club like Bournemouth can recognise and see this beforehand and plan in accordance, why is a club like Manchester United so poor at doing the exact same thing? We plan poorly, we time it poorly, and we recruit (specifically players, because I do think Amorim is the right appointment) poorly, and therefore we perform poorly.
 
VP89 said:
Fair enough of course - I just don't think its an overreaction to say we are shite and should be doing better whilst still accepting he needs a lot of time to get it right.
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Could be doing better, but it's not like we have a world class attack and we've been unlucky with these set piece goals - I mean we've conceded two direct corner goals in the space of a week.

Take the game yesterday for example which has caused the hissy fit...

We had ten men for nearly all the second half yet still had more shots than the opposition. We conceded a freak goal then another late breakaway.

...This means Amorim has to abandon his system and principles for the sake of grinding out some results?? It's a bizarre take.

What are we desperate for points for? So we can finish in the top 4?? The rest of this season is about building an identity.
 
jderbyshire said:
Could be doing better, but it's not like we have a world class attack and we've been unlucky with these set piece goals - I mean we've conceded two direct corner goals in the space of a week.

Take the game yesterday for example which has caused the hissy fit...

We had ten men for nearly all the second half yet still had more shots than the opposition. We conceded a freak goal then another late breakaway.

...This means Amorim has to abandon his system and principles for the sake of grinding out some results?? It's a bizarre take.

What are we desperate for points for? So we can finish in the top 4?? The rest of this season is about building an identity.
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These aren't freak goals if they keep happening though.
Players score from a corner hardly ever - you might see one instance of it through an entire season across all games. We've just had it in our past 2 games, because the oppositions know we are poorly organized in this. This was actually not the case pre Amorim, and one of the influences in his methods has been a drastic fall in handling set pieces. This is a huge concern that is not something that should take weeks to fix. Managers that are well organized in their defence see almost instant improvements in these facets when they make early impacts. Expecting Amorim to fix this immediately is not unfair or impatient - we were a lot better dealing with them before he came, and we have been very noticeably shit at them since Arsenal. We've had a few games since then and it's gotten worse and worse. He needs to fix that because unlike the attack, he actually has good defenders to work with.

Ultimately we can't micro-analyse all of the goals we concede and chalk them off as freak goals - we've shipped far too many in the weeks he's been here and there's no single player contributing to it. It's a collective issue pointing to a fragile mindset - something he will need to also fix.
 
I hope upper management don’t panic and sack him prematurely.

But I also hope they don’t panic and make yet another ill-advised desperation signing in January. It would be just like us to make the problem even worse by throwing stupid money at some overpriced flop.
 
Massimo Taibi said:
Comparing ourselves to Bournemouth is utterly pathetic. Iraola had a whole pre-season to work on his ideas, he didn't walk into a job midway through a season. He had six to eight weeks in pre-season. It's also worth noting that in Bournemouth's first ten games they played Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Brighton and West Ham (who had won a European trophy just months before). How many of those games do you even expect Bournemouth to win anyway? They're certainly not Ipswich (newly promoted), Wolves (in the bottom three), Bournemouth and Nottingham Forest. I'm not sure the two situations are really that comparable.
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The only comparison that can be drawn is that Iraola was clearly a very competent manager who was trying to get some new ideas across, and it took time for them to adapt and start playing well. They also played Brentford, Everton, Wolves and a very underwhelming Chelsea team in that run and struggled, but once it clicked they never looked back and were a proper top half team for the rest of season.

It's more similar to when Klopp took over Liverpool. He lost to Palace in his first game, then beat City away but lost to Newcastle, Watford and West Ham soon after, just barely scrapping a draw against West Brom and narrow wins against Swansea, Leicester and Sunderland (all by 1-0 scoreline). They were glimpses of improvement but it took a while for results to get there because the team was just bad and not suitable for the type of football he wanted to play. Very few, almost none, of the players in that team ended up being a part of their CL and title winning team eventually but they set the course early on and never departed from that because of underwhelming results as it wasn't about results at the beginning.

Now if we can't see any progress next year, or even towards the end of this season, it's a different conversation. But early days are going to be challenging, and arguably even more challenging with managers who have a clearly defined way of playing as they will almost never have a team suitable for it.
 
Sarni said:
The only comparison that can be drawn is that Iraola was clearly a very competent manager who was trying to get some new ideas across, and it took time for them to adapt and start playing well. They also played Brentford, Everton, Wolves and a very underwhelming Chelsea team in that run and struggled, but once it clicked they never looked back and were a proper top half team for the rest of season.

It's more similar to when Klopp took over Liverpool. He lost to Palace in his first game, then beat City away but lost to Newcastle, Watford and West Ham soon after, just barely scrapping a draw against West Brom and narrow wins against Swansea, Leicester and Sunderland (all by 1-0 scoreline). They were glimpses of improvement but it took a while for results to get there because the team was just bad and not suitable for the type of football he wanted to play. Very few, almost none, of the players in that team ended up being a part of their CL and title winning team eventually but they set the course early on and never departed from that because of underwhelming results as it wasn't about results at the beginning.

Now if we can't see any progress next year, or even towards the end of this season, it's a different conversation. But early days are going to be challenging, and arguably even more challenging with managers who have a clearly defined way of playing as they will almost never have a team suitable for it.
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Klopp also adapted drastically to his new environment. The adaption went both ways, he drilled some players, bought some and also changed the way he mainly approached the game tactically.
 
Sarni said:
The only comparison that can be drawn is that Iraola was clearly a very competent manager who was trying to get some new ideas across, and it took time for them to adapt and start playing well. They also played Brentford, Everton, Wolves and a very underwhelming Chelsea team in that run and struggled, but once it clicked they never looked back and were a proper top half team for the rest of season.

It's more similar to when Klopp took over Liverpool. He lost to Palace in his first game, then beat City away but lost to Newcastle, Watford and West Ham soon after, just barely scrapping a draw against West Brom and narrow wins against Swansea, Leicester and Sunderland (all by 1-0 scoreline). They were glimpses of improvement but it took a while for results to get there because the team was just bad and not suitable for the type of football he wanted to play. Very few, almost none, of the players in that team ended up being a part of their CL and title winning team eventually but they set the course early on and never departed from that because of underwhelming results as it wasn't about results at the beginning.

Now if we can't see any progress next year, or even towards the end of this season, it's a different conversation. But early days are going to be challenging, and arguably even more challenging with managers who have a clearly defined way of playing as they will almost never have a team suitable for it.
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Agree totally. We have a mid table squad so it's not like they are massively underperforming. They are doing marginally worse than expected but not hugely so.
 
Robbie Boy said:
It's kind of wild how each post-Fergie manager has left behind a mess of a squad. ETH done great to win a cup and get 3rd after inheriting Ole's shambles. Now Amorim has taken on a really poor squad left behind by ETH.

Amorim has a huge task on his hands. I honestly would bin off 90% of this squad.
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Being really honest I'd not be sad to see any one of them sold.
Not one.

Rashford has been massive issue but that looks like it's getting sorted, and Bruno being the team epicentre hasn't worked. He's good on his day but not brilliant. Time to go.

Anyone involved in Zirksee signing should be fired for incompetence.

Antonys scouts probably gone already. Good.

Onana is another dud.

Mount too, stupid waste of money, even if he did manage to stay fit.


The bottom line is that the players aren't good enough. They are where they should be.

Too much of a mix of youngsters and over rated seniors.
we have no leader

Amorim should be allowed to take tome to create his own team. Nobody is getting anything out of the current crop.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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The best thing we can do to support this guy is not to have a fancy preseason in some exotic country where players hardly train and do excessive media activities. Pre-season in Carrington please.

And no fecking 200m warchest. Stop throwing money at the problem. Identify affordable players. Players come in with a 70 or 80 million price tag and the price inevitably breaks them by the end of the season.
 
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It’s an awful moment for him and us right now and was a little too emotionally charged yesterday to get across my opinion.

As he says, he needs the chance to train the players. It’s a rough run of games with no time on the training ground and we will be destined to make the same mistakes over and over again unless he is given the time to rectify it. The few weeks in January where the fixtures aren’t so bad will be crucial on getting across his ideas.

He also needs support in the transfer market this January. It’s never a happy hunting ground but we need to sell Rashford who clearly is on his way out somehow and bring in an offensive wing back.
 
There is a lack of logic with Amorim's ideals and practices.
A football manager's job is to get the most out of the players available to him.

With that in mind do we think the current problems with Utd are due to his system or player ability?
If it's the system then it needs discarded promptly.

If player quality, shouldn't a good manager implement tactics that leverages their best qualities and minimises the exposure of their deficiencies?
If the answer is yes then isn't playing a system that does the opposite downright negligence?

If the argument against this is it will get better with better players then why on earth are we burning games trying to educate players to play a system they won't be a part of at the first opportunity?
 
jderbyshire said:
Could be doing better, but it's not like we have a world class attack and we've been unlucky with these set piece goals - I mean we've conceded two direct corner goals in the space of a week.

Take the game yesterday for example which has caused the hissy fit...

We had ten men for nearly all the second half yet still had more shots than the opposition. We conceded a freak goal then another late breakaway.

...This means Amorim has to abandon his system and principles for the sake of grinding out some results?? It's a bizarre take.

What are we desperate for points for? So we can finish in the top 4?? The rest of this season is about building an identity.
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No. It was a clear plan from them. They tried it more than once and almost got one through at the near post before the one that actually went in.

And you can bet more teams will try it against us now. If we don't have a plan for it, it could very well happen a third time this season.

For all the mockery that Arsenal got for their set pieces, you now have other teams starting to copy their routine and we have to be ready for that too. Our set piece capabilities at either end do seem worse under Amorim and more teams will target that weakness. Regardless of all the other system and formation bs, this has to be sorted quickly.
 
Socratic said:
There is a lack of logic with Amorim's ideals and practices.
A football manager's job is to get the most out of the players available to him.

With that in mind do we think the current problems with Utd are due to his system or player ability?
If it's the system then it needs discarded promptly.

If player quality, shouldn't a good manager implement tactics that leverages their best qualities and minimises the exposure of their deficiencies?
If the answer is yes then isn't playing a system that does the opposite downright negligence?

If the argument against this is it will get better with better players then why on earth are we burning games trying to educate players to play a system they won't be a part of at the first opportunity?
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So……adjust to the system that has failed us for the past decade and not try and learn something new & STILL complain that we’re shit. Makes sense.
 
It was one game and it was Everton but we really looked great there. Mazroui was excellent as centre back, Amad was main attacking threat from right side, Casemiro gave balance to midfield and Zirkzee shined as false no9.
Lets go back on that lineup.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
It was one game and it was Everton but we really looked great there. Mazroui was excellent as centre back, Amad was main attacking threat from right side, Casemiro gave balance to midfield and Ziirkzee shined as false no9.
Lets go back on that lineup.
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Not to mention that it's an Everton team that didn't lose to Arsenal, Chelsea and City.

But all the good feeling from our game against them has just evaporated in subsequent weeks.
 
With Sporting already sacking his successor and his reign at United so far turning into a disaster, I could realistically see a scenario play out where he’s back at Sporting by the start of next season.

He just looks absolutely shellshocked at the task facing him. That initial childlike excitement has completely gone from him. Feel really sorry for the bloke tbh because he seems like a genuinely top person. But deep down he must be wondering what on earth he’s walked into.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but looking at this in the cold light of day, INEOS should have kept RVN as interim for the rest of this season and then allowed Amorim to take over on June 1st giving him nearly 3 months to get everything lined up for next season. Ruud would have got something like a top 6 or 7 place finish and a cup run IMO. This is just pandemonium what is going on mid season right now.
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The squad looks good while managed in the interim by ex-players because they get a nice little break with lowered expectations and easy training sessions run by a staff who knows they're gone in a few weeks anyways. They look like total shit the second they get an ambitious long-term manager because the pressure is on and training starts to feel like hard work again.
 
spiriticon said:
The best thing we can do to support this guy is not to have a fancy preseason in some exotic country where players hardly train and do excessive media activities. Pre-season in Carrington please.

And no fecking 200m warchest. Stop throwing money at the problem. Identify affordable players. Players come in with a 70 or 80 million price tag and the price inevitably breaks them by the end of the season.
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We're going to the US.
 
Malone_Post said:
With Sporting already sacking his successor and his reign at United so far turning into a disaster, I could realistically see a scenario play out where he’s back at Sporting by the start of next season.

He just looks absolutely shellshocked at the task facing him. That initial childlike excitement has completely gone from him. Feel really sorry for the bloke tbh because he seems like a genuinely top person. But deep down he must be wondering what on earth he’s walked into.
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He looks more shocked at the media and their relentless questions. Maybe he's also had a look at the caf and is stunned at a few suggesting he should be sacked already.
 
Malone_Post said:
With Sporting already sacking his successor and his reign at United so far turning into a disaster, I could realistically see a scenario play out where he’s back at Sporting by the start of next season.

He just looks absolutely shellshocked at the task facing him. That initial childlike excitement has completely gone from him. Feel really sorry for the bloke tbh because he seems like a genuinely top person. But deep down he must be wondering what on earth he’s walked into.
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There’s zero chance Amorim walks in my opinion knowing his character. I also think there’s little to no chance he is sacked given he’s the Berrada pick.

I fully expect the club to have patience, even if the fans don’t, as they will acknowledge we need time to get this to work. This season is a total free hit.
 
Malone_Post said:
With Sporting already sacking his successor and his reign at United so far turning into a disaster, I could realistically see a scenario play out where he’s back at Sporting by the start of next season.

He just looks absolutely shellshocked at the task facing him. That initial childlike excitement has completely gone from him. Feel really sorry for the bloke tbh because he seems like a genuinely top person. But deep down he must be wondering what on earth he’s walked into.
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yes and it would be a disaster, another step in the wrong direction but I can certainly see it happening. Ruben is already acknowledging his job is now on the line

 
Malone_Post said:
With Sporting already sacking his successor and his reign at United so far turning into a disaster, I could realistically see a scenario play out where he’s back at Sporting by the start of next season.

He just looks absolutely shellshocked at the task facing him. That initial childlike excitement has completely gone from him. Feel really sorry for the bloke tbh because he seems like a genuinely top person. But deep down he must be wondering what on earth he’s walked into.
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There's just no way
 
Red4Ever said:
Fully behind him lots of the players make terrible decisions

One thing that gets on my nerves is the wide players ALWAYS check back

After one minute under Amorim we saw the benefit of taking men on & delivering early (amad to MR)

Yesterday amad, our best player ATM, checked back a few times when the rasmus early ball was on
Dalot & co always do it
Garnacho lost the ball for the second goal checking back

Wolves put in early crosses & nearly scored a few times

Hope Amorim sorts this
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Yes this. Why? Put the ball in the box. Is it tactical instructions? What's the point? To preserve their passing completion rate?
 
Successful Clubs don’t buy players for managers , they buy it for a system that will be generally maintained if a manager is replaced. It’s not that managers don’t get to sometimes pick a player to sign or aren’t involved in the process but the club should have its own transfer policy separate from managers.

This idea that ETH or Ole or Jose etc are the problem needs to stop. A club is responsible for putting the squad together to help a manager/coach achieve their goals. A manager can be involved but they are not responsible for finding players and signing them. United has never helped any of our managers put really strong squads together.

There’s plenty of evidence that the club regularly signed players well down the list of targets and panics signed players for different reasons, one being our managers always inherit unbalanced squads that need emergency recruits.

Slot didn’t just waltz into Pool and make it work cause he’s a genius, he inherited a strong squad that’s part of a strong football infrastructure that has a longer term plan that doesn’t require entire rebuilds when it replaces its manager.

Why did United hire Amorim? Was it because he was the big new name on the block or does his football style represent the longer term goals of the club. If it’s longer term goals then fine, it will take time. If it’s cause he’s the emperors new clothes of managers and we may end up with a coach with a completely different style in 2 years , then the club is no better off under INEOs who have learned nothing from Glazer dysfunction.

A coach having a definable style is grand but you can’t be buying players for that style and then changing it every 2-3 years. So as a mate of mine says , if Amorim was replaced sometime by end of season and United hired a completely different coach , we are well and truly f**ked.

We aren’t here because ETH signed all these players , we are here because the club hired a manager and gave them a squad in turmoil and then the club spent poorly on making the team stronger. It’s been the same since Moyes. Whether or not managers have been good enough, United’s recruitment and squad management has been consistently awful.
 
lolok said:
How else do you prefer Amorin teach the players his system? Training and matches are the way for players to learn.

I don't what you expect here. This squad isn't great thanks to poor purchases for a decade. The squad isn't in great physical shape, thanks to the previous manager. You want him to start playing guys 3 times every 8 days? What will happen? There will be more injuries and overall play will suffer from fatigue. He needs to rotate (for now.) He needs to figure out which players have got it in them, and which players who don't and can be offloaded in the summer.

Amorin is pulling a Klopp. Klopp came in October I think, so he too didn't get the benefit of a preseason. Klopp finished on 60 points, when they finished on 62 the year prior. Klopp spent the season coaching the players in his system and it paid off the following year when they finished 4th. It took until his 4th year!! to have the team humming, but fortunately City was still a bit better than them that year.

Klopp is world class manager, and it took him until his 4th year to turn them into title contenders. Took SAF 7 years to win a title. IDK what fans want. Some want to be delusional thinking that it should be an instant quick fix. It's not. Right now, it's all about the players learning the system, playing better and the manager figuring out who will stay and who will go in the offseason.

If you can't stomach the pain that the rest of the season will bring-- do something else with your life. There are going to be some good wins, and some bad losses. Its not going to be easy. Pep took over a team that won the title twice and were runners up twice in the 5 years before he arrived. He inherited a really good squad that included Aguero, DeBruyne, Silva, Kompany, Toure, Sterling, FErnandinho and more. Much more quality than what Amorin, Klopp or SAF had to work with when they took over.

The objective for the rest of the season is to try and win. But for players to learn the system, the manager to learn the players, and then have a successful offseason of buying and selling players to give Amorin a shot at 4th place next season.

I like the rotation right now if I'm a player. The manager is giving every player a chance, they either take that chance and perform well or they don't. Players can't be upset if they given the opportunity and failed. (Well grown up, mature players won't be upset.) Previous managers stuck by players for too long, and didn't give others a chance.

The club is paying the price for bad purchases-- it's going to take 2 more summer transfers of good signings while offloading poor signings at the same time. The club can't just spend 400mm to try and fix the team in 1 offseason. It's going to take time.
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This needs pinning
 
lolok said:
How else do you prefer Amorin teach the players his system? Training and matches are the way for players to learn.

I don't what you expect here. This squad isn't great thanks to poor purchases for a decade. The squad isn't in great physical shape, thanks to the previous manager. You want him to start playing guys 3 times every 8 days? What will happen? There will be more injuries and overall play will suffer from fatigue. He needs to rotate (for now.) He needs to figure out which players have got it in them, and which players who don't and can be offloaded in the summer.

Amorin is pulling a Klopp. Klopp came in October I think, so he too didn't get the benefit of a preseason. Klopp finished on 60 points, when they finished on 62 the year prior. Klopp spent the season coaching the players in his system and it paid off the following year when they finished 4th. It took until his 4th year!! to have the team humming, but fortunately City was still a bit better than them that year.

Klopp is world class manager, and it took him until his 4th year to turn them into title contenders. Took SAF 7 years to win a title. IDK what fans want. Some want to be delusional thinking that it should be an instant quick fix. It's not. Right now, it's all about the players learning the system, playing better and the manager figuring out who will stay and who will go in the offseason.

If you can't stomach the pain that the rest of the season will bring-- do something else with your life. There are going to be some good wins, and some bad losses. Its not going to be easy. Pep took over a team that won the title twice and were runners up twice in the 5 years before he arrived. He inherited a really good squad that included Aguero, DeBruyne, Silva, Kompany, Toure, Sterling, FErnandinho and more. Much more quality than what Amorin, Klopp or SAF had to work with when they took over.

The objective for the rest of the season is to try and win. But for players to learn the system, the manager to learn the players, and then have a successful offseason of buying and selling players to give Amorin a shot at 4th place next season.

I like the rotation right now if I'm a player. The manager is giving every player a chance, they either take that chance and perform well or they don't. Players can't be upset if they given the opportunity and failed. (Well grown up, mature players won't be upset.) Previous managers stuck by players for too long, and didn't give others a chance.

The club is paying the price for bad purchases-- it's going to take 2 more summer transfers of good signings while offloading poor signings at the same time. The club can't just spend 400mm to try and fix the team in 1 offseason. It's going to take time.
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I agree with everything you have just said. Great post.
 
Socratic said:
There is a lack of logic with Amorim's ideals and practices.
A football manager's job is to get the most out of the players available to him.

With that in mind do we think the current problems with Utd are due to his system or player ability?
If it's the system then it needs discarded promptly.

If player quality, shouldn't a good manager implement tactics that leverages their best qualities and minimises the exposure of their deficiencies?
If the answer is yes then isn't playing a system that does the opposite downright negligence?

If the argument against this is it will get better with better players then why on earth are we burning games trying to educate players to play a system they won't be a part of at the first opportunity?
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That’s a great way of never developing a system and forever playing a shit tactic for shit players.

Your suggestion is basically what ETH did - and we ended up 3 years later with no style of play at all. Yes, let’s definitely do that again.
 
Socratic said:
There is a lack of logic with Amorim's ideals and practices.
A football manager's job is to get the most out of the players available to him.

With that in mind do we think the current problems with Utd are due to his system or player ability?
If it's the system then it needs discarded promptly.

If player quality, shouldn't a good manager implement tactics that leverages their best qualities and minimises the exposure of their deficiencies?
If the answer is yes then isn't playing a system that does the opposite downright negligence?

If the argument against this is it will get better with better players then why on earth are we burning games trying to educate players to play a system they won't be a part of at the first opportunity?
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He's trying to build a system - the problems are due to player quality but they'll never be able to implement a system which gets the best out of the players until he gets his own players in - you could say "look just play 4-2-3-1 for half a season - make it dead simple" like international teams who never have any time to train together tend to do - but he would be risking next year with the core of the players he wants to build around (if there are any) doing that. The only way these players get used to the system is to play in it, and if you have no training time available, youve got to learn on the job, during games. There are growing pains, there are teething problems. We know and expected this.
 
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