We don’t look capable of reaching European qualification places anyway; however, I totally agree with you. This is especially true if we try to clear the decks and ship more players out than we bring in. Operating with a small squad without European football and plenty of time on the training pitch.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
We don’t look capable of reaching European qualification places anyway; however, I totally agree with you. This is especially true if we try to clear the decks and ship more players out than we bring in. Operating with a small squad without European football and plenty of time on the training pitch.
Our players might be poor but are certainly better than what Iraola had when he started.
Are you happy with what Amorim has done so far? Any successful tactical changes you want to highlight?
My take is that the board must now back Amorim in the next 3 windows so that he can implement his 3421. The decision has been made. Way way too early to say if he will succeed. ETH was also successful in a minor league and so far Amorim hasn’t done anything special in my opinion.
Great post!
Sacrificing the system and style of play to get decent results in the short term won't lead to long term success where we're challenging for league titles. When will some fans learn?
ffs.
I lol'd at y'all's comments because mine was a bit tongue in cheek. I was just trying to get ahead of all the moaners here. It's strangely satisfying to just be bereft of hope though ngl.
Is it down to the system or the players that our build up play is so slow?
Because he’s working with the squad that ETH built, which is clearly atrocious. And he’s trying to implement a playing style, something fans also lamented under ETH. Like Klopp at Liverpool, I don’t expect him to deviate when it’s having teething problems otherwise it’ll just never happen. He has his principles, which got him the job, so he has to stick to it. Don’t give the “I can’t play Ajax football” bollocks like his predecessor, which again went down like a lead balloon with fans.
Basically he’s giving everything we wanted, unfortunately results and performances aren’t there. But there are major extenuating circumstances around that. Give him time, if it’s not looking great by this time next season then it’s time for a discussion, but this season is a free hit given all of the above. We just have to suck it up and not expect instant success with all the changes happening.
I think he might have had more success if he stuck with the 4231 counter crap, but that’s just doing what ETH did and what was part of his downfall. He’d be a fool to go down the same route, as we know first hand it’s not sustainable and that it just exposes more issues which are less of an issue in this system (ie exposed midfield and defence).
I’m thinking both. I think whilst we work it out he’s wanting them to be safer on the ball to prevent the turnover and counter that plagued us under ETH. But I think the players lack conviction in passing through the lines.
This!
I agree.
It's gonna take the next two transfer windows to steady the ship. There's no reason we can't fix the biggest problem areas quickly this January.
We could:
Buy back Fernandez at LWB for cheap.
Offer Napoli a loan deal for Osimhen or swap Rashford.
Then we need another CM and we can get the rest in the summer.
Providing we sell Rashford, it could even be sooner.
I'm giving Ruben a free pass this season because he's trying to implement a system and style of play with a lot of the shite Erik brought in. None of the players are Amorim's (apart from Ugarte who played under his previously and as it happens looks one of our best players).
If he does an Erik on it, says we can't play the way he wants so he's gonna play it safe and go back to 4-2-3-1 and try to shithouse or counterattack a few extra wins here and there, that's when I'll go in on him. Cos it would have all been for nothing.
and you’re certain the hair isn’t a factor?
I'm glad more people on here get it than those panicking. It's like hiring a top class manager at a store doing crap and when it doesn't instantly change within the month criticising him. Long-term crap needs time to undo.
It's hard to highly rate a manager who's so wedded to one system. He could turn out to be a great manager but right now, he's playing everyone out of position except Maguire and Hojlund.
This situation has been created by INEOS, so it's more a criticism of them than Amorim. Even so, it's hard watching him fumble around trying different square pegs in the round holes of his beloved formation.
This situation has been created by INEOS, so it's more a criticism of them than Amorim. Even so, it's hard watching him fumble around trying different square pegs in the round holes of his beloved formation.
I don’t know you from Adam, I had no way to tell that your post was tongue in cheek
The media is already starting to turn on him. Do feel sorry for him. We are the place where careers come to die
We've tried bald, we've tried haired, but have we tried bald spot?
You kind of have to admire the balls of Amorim to move into a house that was visibly on fire
Keano’s working on one at the moment, he’ll be ready come May
Dalot has been having to play on the left ages before Amorim arrived. The club refusing to buy a competent LB/LWB has been an issue on the CAF for years. Rashford has form has been terrible for years and so has his effort.
How many of our conceded goals in the last two months have been unforced errors or from set pieces. How is that based on formation?
Fair enough of course - I just don't think its an overreaction to say we are shite and should be doing better whilst still accepting he needs a lot of time to get it right.
OK so the general census is the squad is terrible even though I do not buy that it is lower table bad but isn't a sign of a good manager, one where they are able to get players to perform above their means?
We saw it when emery took over at Aston villa, we see it with iraola at Bournemouth, same with even pep who made players look really good and then once sold they were never able to replicate the same performances.
I can't think of a single player that has really shined under amorim, you could argue diallo but that is probably more down to actually being played instead of completely frozen out like he was under the previous awful manager?
We saw it when emery took over at Aston villa, we see it with iraola at Bournemouth, same with even pep who made players look really good and then once sold they were never able to replicate the same performances.
I can't think of a single player that has really shined under amorim, you could argue diallo but that is probably more down to actually being played instead of completely frozen out like he was under the previous awful manager?
Well said. Couldn't agree more!
It's not Amorim's fault. This mess is on the club and ten Hag. We should've followed through with the plan of firing ten Hag in the summer then Amorim would've had a pre season and I have no doubt we would be in a much better position right now. But we didn't so like Amorim said we'll have to suffer for a bit.
The media are idiots, I was watching something the other day with some of the so called big names in media, and one said with a straight face that ETH did a decent job in getting rid of the deadwood at United, but then had to be reminded that all he did was replace them with even worse and more expensive deadwood.
That's what you're up against with them, all that ETH left Amorim with will be forgotten, and every other story will be about a negative one about Amorim and United.
Who are these square pegs in round holes?
Let's take yesterday's starting XI:
- Onana was playing as GK - round in round.
- Maguire, Yoro and Martinez were playing as CB's - round in round
- Ugarte and Mainoo were CM's - round in round
- Amad and Bruno were #10's who could drift wide - round in round.
- Hojlund was playing as a striker - round in round.
The only two players we can say are not suited as WB's are Maz and Dalot. However, they are both FB's, Maz being one of the bright spots this season who can adjust to almost any position & Dalot has played as LB/LWB plenty of times both here and previously at Milan.
I think people want to blame the formation as it is the lowest hanging fruit. In reality we are failing at getting the basic principles of football right.
- Our GK can't catch a ball or push opposition players aside as he has no command of his box.
- Our CB's are not able to move the ball fast enough out of the defense. Martinez cannot defend channels and "Arry likes to stand on the ball.
- Our midfielders and attacking midfielders cannot pass the ball. Our Captain likes to play low percentage balls and is horrible in tight spaces. He loses his calm and acts like a petulant child when he doesn't get his way, which is often.
- Our striker cannot hold the ball and spends most of the time wrestling with defenders and losing out. He has a horrible touch as well.
Now maybe we can go back to playing low block counter attacking football and call it transition football to make it sound cooler than it is, but that won't take us anywhere. I am okay that Amorium is ready to live or die with his preferred style of playing. I rather that then finish 7th and be in the same shit again next season.
Yeah, he can't do anything about the LB problem. What he can do, though, is play Mainoo, Mazraoui, Bruno, Garnacho and to some extent even Amad and Lisandro in their right positions.
I think he's overcomplicating it. All he had to do was learn from ten Hag's mistakes. Make Amad a starter and shift Bruno to midfield to provide more legs and cover for the holding 6 (Casemiro/Ugarte). Instead, he's made an already messy situation messier.
Martinez isn't great at defending wide channels. Mainoo is a dynamic 8 whose skill set is under-utilized and defensive weakness exposed as one of the 2 central mids (if anything, he'd probably be more suited to the left-sided 10).
Amad is a right winger who should stay right. Bruno is a central attacking midfielder who should stay central. The wide 10s, imo, doesn't afford Amad enough space and forces Bruno wide.
Not to mention, the formation has forced Garnacho out. I know he's frustrating, but he's one of our more talented/promising attackers. Even if he does play, the wide 10 position forces him to be more technical, which isn't his game.
I agree that there are bigger problems than the system, but the system isn't helping matters.
Whether they all are or not is questionable.
I'm happy with the shape and the level of control over possession, the pressing is good and defending overall from open play has been much better. Set piece defending has been unforgivable, I'm not a big fan of zonal defending on setpieces, mistakes happen far too often, because of individuals not taking responsibility for their area and doing their jobs properly. It should be mixed or man for man marking.
In attack it's the same shite, no composure, poor decision making, poor passing, poor movement, poor control etc. I'm beginning to think peak SAF could be the manager and it wouldn't change, most of these players are just monumentally thick and aren't capable of any better in the attacking third.
Iraola started with 6 losses and 3 draws.
Using Iroala as an example actually proves the point that you should stick with your formation and system.
We hired a manager with a modern approach to the game we shouldn’t be forcing him to change his ways to suit this lot of overpaid underperforming shower of shite we need to be backing him and his system
Short term we’re pretty fecked but we need to get some deals done in January and we might start see it coming together. Long term I’m certain the club will be in a better position this is our ‘open heart’ surgery that’s been needed he’s weeding out the players who don’t want to be in for the fight it’s going to take time
Comparing ourselves to Bournemouth is utterly pathetic. Iraola had a whole pre-season to work on his ideas, he didn't walk into a job midway through a season. He had six to eight weeks in pre-season. It's also worth noting that in Bournemouth's first ten games they played Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Brighton and West Ham (who had won a European trophy just months before). How many of those games do you even expect Bournemouth to win anyway? They're certainly not Ipswich (newly promoted), Wolves (in the bottom three), Bournemouth and Nottingham Forest. I'm not sure the two situations are really that comparable.
I was actually pleasantly surprised that we did not fall apart once the substitutions were made, on the contrary, we got a hold of the match to a degree. If this was Ten Hag, we would've been on the back foot most of the time.
Yeah, I can agree with that. Would rather back the manager.
The timing of it is so poor. It's like deciding to perform that long-awaited open heart surgery when the body is in sepsis. Amorim will likely have to deal with largely this group for the rest of the season. Just hope he atleast gets a decent LWB in January.
It does in a way.
The people mentioning Iraola would be sweating lava with 1 win in 10 and obviously didn't pay attention to Bournemouth last year.
This thread is hilarious. Enjoy the holidays.
The guy does not have the players, other managers the same. It's going to be a long time before he gets it right. One thing this group over the last few years and more they can make you dislike them very quick...
Only problem is that finishing 13th or 14th this season doesn't offer any guarantees that it won't be the same shit next season also.
Getting better gradually is more realistic and sustainable than being top 5 after you were bottom 6.
I don't think there's any point comparing us to other clubs anyway. We're a different beast. As shit as we are, half the battle is the fact that every team is up for a game against United, and we don't have players that can cope with that.
Amorim needs a goalscorer in January more than WB.
Someone with smart movement in the box would do wonders for us.
Hojlund does not have smart movement yet and Zirkzee can't be bothered to move, so...
Someone with smart movement in the box would do wonders for us.
Hojlund does not have smart movement yet and Zirkzee can't be bothered to move, so...
Amorim inherit a bad squad assembled by a subpar manager and board! Ineos are the guys that ruined our season! Instead of appointing amorim in summer they wasted a preseason and a summee transfer window! Not to mention sacking their newly appointed dof