Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

I supported Ten Hag right up to his sacking despite it feeling completely irrational and stupid. Feels a lot more justified now. I'll take it as a sign to stick with Amorim as long as it takes, just dont think hes a problem or changing him will solve anything and I'll stick with that beyond the point where it feels rational or sensible. Feels like the job of supporters at this point in time.
 
Well he's under pressure now.

We are more organised with much clearer structure and shape, but my god we are awful in attack. Not necessarily his fault because there is a serious lack of quality but don't think he helps by playing two genuine defenders in the wing back positions, maybe ok in big away games, but not against the relative fodder of the league.

We end up with only three attacking players the pitch one being Hojlund or zirkzee so two and a half really. It's asking alot to break down PL defences with 2 and a half attackers and defenders as the main wide threat.

Think he has to commit to playing a winger in one of the full back positions to give us an extra attacking threat, in the majority of games.

With Rashford seemingly on the scrapheap and on the way out we are gonna desperately need attacking reinforcements in the January window because are attack without Rashford is genuinely relegation quality.
 
RDCR07 said:
So should we sack him?
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Of course we shouldn’t but will SJR if he has 15 PL points from 15 PL matches so that’s 8 more in the next 8 games against Newcastle(H), Liverpool(A), Southampton(H), Brighton(H), Fulham(A), Crystal Palace(H), Tottenham(A), Everton(A).

That would mean United have played 26 PL matches and this will determine if we are in a relegation battle, if we have 30 points from 26 games that means we will be flirting with relegation and Ruben Amorim will be under huge pressure as that means he would have won 2 of those games, 2 draws and another 4 defeats.

Looking at that fixture list with this current squad, I think we might be looking more at 2 wins, 1 draw and 5 defeats. It’s clear they were hoping for Amorim to get 2points per game from the remaining 27 EPL games when they appointed him which would have give them 69 points and another outside chance of 4th or 5th and CL football next season. He will need to finish 10th to 12th to keep his job!
 
Woziak said:
Of course we shouldn’t but will SJR if he has 15 PL points from 15 PL matches so that’s 8 more in the next 8 games against Newcastle(H), Liverpool(A), Southampton(H), Brighton(H), Fulham(A), Crystal Palace(H), Tottenham(A), Everton(A).
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Well he hired him so to sack him without giving him a proper shot is ludicrous. SJR should have expected this. If he thought this was going to be easy coming in midseason, then he is dumb. Like I said before, Amorim told him he would like to start in the summer and now we can all see why. Consider this season a write off no matter where we finish. Back him in the summer and if performances dont improve we can talk about it but I am confident given the time, Amorim can make it work here.
 
RDCR07 said:
So who is an experienced PL manager that can fix this mess? You do understand this isn’t about formation and the style of play but rather the quality of players? The continuous mistakes these numbskulls keep making is making Amorim looks worse than he actually is.
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These are the same players that came third 2 seasons ago and won 2 trophies, they are poor but not bottom 6 poor, they do not have the right football IQ to play a 3421 system, they don’t have the legs or the pace to make this system effective?

Marco Silva, Thomas Frank, Andoni Iraola are all PL proven and used to over achieving with less resources, they are not rigid in a 4 at the back system and will adapt to the opposition. They are all more suitable and would have cost less in terms of compensation.
 
It’s worrying that he says he needs good results to convince the players his system works. Sounds like he’s facing opposition in the dressing room.
 
AneRu said:
South as in close to Cape Town than the South Coast of Britain, well yes!
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Then it's both understandable and forgivable.

People South of Degenham have difficulty pointing to anywhere specific North of the M 25
 
Woziak said:
These are the same players that came third 2 seasons ago and won 2 trophies, they are poor but not bottom 6 poor, they do not have the right football IQ to play a 3421 system, they don’t have the legs or the pace to make this system effective?

Marco Silva, Thomas Frank, Andoni Iraola are all PL proven and used to over achieving with less resources, they are not rigid in a 4 at the back system and will adapt to the opposition. They are all more suitable and would have cost less in terms of compensation.
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None of them have managed a big club. You seem so confident that they will work here based on what? You can’t put 2+2 together and get 5. Emery didn’t work at Arsenal even though he was a good manager back then as well and had European success.

This Tomas Frank love in needs to stop. He is just like Spurs. He is so inconsistent. He will beat a top team at home and then go lose to a weaker team away. He has finished 13th, 9th, 16th and now 12th in the league. What has he shown you to prove he can take us to the top 4 and beyond?
 
Longshanks said:
Well he's under pressure now.

We are more organised with much clearer structure and shape, but my god we are awful in attack. Not necessarily his fault because there is a serious lack of quality but don't think he helps by playing two genuine defenders in the wing back positions, maybe ok in big away games, but not against the relative fodder of the league.

We end up with only three attacking players the pitch one being Hojlund or zirkzee so two and a half really. It's asking alot to break down PL defences with 2 and a half attackers and defenders as the main wide threat.

Think he has to commit to playing a winger in one of the full back positions to give us an extra attacking threat, in the majority of games.

With Rashford seemingly on the scrapheap and on the way out we are gonna desperately need attacking reinforcements in the January window because are attack without Rashford is genuinely relegation quality.
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Hard to consider zirkzee and hojlund as attacking players anyways. If we had a half decent striker a lot of our problems could be solved instead of throwing 300m at players not scoring.
 
Woziak said:
These are the same players that came third 2 seasons ago and won 2 trophies, they are poor but not bottom 6 poor, they do not have the right football IQ to play a 3421 system, they don’t have the legs or the pace to make this system effective?

Marco Silva, Thomas Frank, Andoni Iraola are all PL proven and used to over achieving with less resources, they are not rigid in a 4 at the back system and will adapt to the opposition. They are all more suitable and would have cost less in terms of compensation.
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PL proven is not needed at all.

None of those managers are good enough.
 
RDCR07 said:
Well he hired him so to sack him without giving him a proper shot is ludicrous. SJR should have expected this. If he thought this was going to be easy coming in midseason, then he is dumb. Like I said before, Amorim told him he would like to start in the summer and now we can all see why. Consider this season a write off no matter where we finish. Back him in the summer and if performances dont improve we can talk about it but I am confident given the time, Amorim can make it work here.
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Let me be clear here, I fully support Amorim, I’m just stating that the man who pays his wages is very trigger hungry and if RA has not started to put points on the board and continues to lose home games, he will be sacked and I don’t agree but if SJR can sack Ashworth after 3 months, he can sack Ruben Amorim and potentially Omar Berrada too, SJR is ruthless, he’s nothing like the dithering Glazers, he’s the complete opposite!
 
Woziak said:
These are the same players that came third 2 seasons ago and won 2 trophies, they are poor but not bottom 6 poor, they do not have the right football IQ to play a 3421 system, they don’t have the legs or the pace to make this system effective?

Marco Silva, Thomas Frank, Andoni Iraola are all PL proven and used to over achieving with less resources, they are not rigid in a 4 at the back system and will adapt to the opposition. They are all more suitable and would have cost less in terms of compensation.
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Give Iraola this team and you’d have the same problems Rangnick was facing considering Iraola likes his teams to press high. They will do it for a game and then it will end up the same as it did for Rangnick.
 
Whatever he needs to get this working to a solidly top half Premier League standard is gonna have to be obtainable in January. Or he needs to abandon the system. Or the job, I guess, but that would seem a tad extreme to me.
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
It’s worrying that he says he needs good results to convince the players his system works. Sounds like he’s facing opposition in the dressing room.
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He’s a dead man walking if that’s true.

He needs to be more tactically flexible. Why stick with a back 5 when you’re a goal down late in the second half? Why not take off a CB and add in an extra attacker?
 
Woziak said:
Let me be clear here, I fully support Amorim, I’m just stating that the man who pays his wages is very trigger hungry and if RA has not started to put points on the board and continues to lose home games, he will be sacked and I don’t agree but if SJR can sack Ashworth after 3 months, he can sack Ruben Amorim and potentially Omar Berrada too, SJR is ruthless, he’s nothing like the dithering Glazers, he’s the complete opposite!
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If he was trigger happy then he could have done us all a favour and sack ETH last summer. Then he had two international breaks to sack ETH and did not.
 
Woziak said:
Let me be clear here, I fully support Amorim, I’m just stating that the man who pays his wages is very trigger hungry and if RA has not started to put points on the board and continues to lose home games, he will be sacked and I don’t agree but if SJR can sack Ashworth after 3 months, he can sack Ruben Amorim and potentially Omar Berrada too, SJR is ruthless, he’s nothing like the dithering Glazers, he’s the complete opposite!
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So well sacking the CEO and DOF isn’t the same as sacking the coach. The first two are easily replaceable but coach isn’t.
 
Garethw said:
He’s a dead man walking if that’s true.

He needs to be more tactically flexible. Why stick with a back 5 when you’re a goal down late in the second half? Why not take off a CB and add in an extra attacker?
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Again we were down to 10.
 
DOTA said:
Whatever he needs to get this working to a solidly top half Premier League standard is gonna have to be obtainable in January. Or he needs to abandon the system. Or the job, I guess, but that would seem a tad extreme to me.
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The big question is whether the 3 at the back system is now going to be our system from now on regardless of the manager? I can’t see us spending any specialist players for this system if they have doubts over Amorim and want to move back to a 433 with another manager.
 
Garethw said:
Yes today. But what about against, Bournemouth, Spurs or Forest?
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So if after every set back we change systems and formations where does that lead us? What’s the point of formations and if we are going to revert back everytime we need a goal. Thats basically every single game. We concede first about every game. So once we concede we should move to a back 4 and go back to the old system? Amorim said this is the first presser - if we go back to old ways there will be good in the ST but pain in the LT. With his way it’s pain in the ST but good in the LT.
 
Garethw said:
The big question is whether the 3 at the back system is now going to be our system from now on regardless of the manager? I can’t see us spending any specialist players for this system if they have doubts over Amorim and want to move back to a 433 with another manager.
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I take the point but the biggest specialised area we're talking is wingbacks, right? And they are about as cheap as players come. We obviously can't go out and buy the biggest names going but the cost of one or two PL standard (we hope) wingbacks I think is a justifiable outlay.
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
It’s worrying that he says he needs good results to convince the players his system works. Sounds like he’s facing opposition in the dressing room.
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Are you surprised? Really?

Rashford aside, there's quite a few misfits and some who are not exactly misfits but suffering from the squad not having the right players for key roles.
 
SparkedIntoLife said:
I wonder if it's a case of right guy, wrong time. Regardless, I think we'd be foolish to do anything stupid and I also feel as fans we need to be careful of turning on him too quickly.

There's something about this club where good players and managers turn bad. I was excited about ETH early on but my underlying thought was 'does he have that little bit of genius that Pep and Klopp have?'. I thought he was smart to be more pragmatic in his first season. It was clear that he was playing differently to the exciting football we saw at Ajax. It seemed to be a hybrid between the Ajax possession style but the counter attacking we were so good at under Ole. Yet it worked. Having said that, there were several players who would clearly not fit the long term plan; Rashford and Fernandes especially. We should have sold them that Summer while their value was high. Then ETH should've gone with full conviction in the style of play that earned him the United job in the first place - possession, clever movement, players drifting etc. Instead, he tried some weird system where the midfield had massive gaps and we pressed high. It was a strange hodgepodge of ideas and failed badly.

Amorim is sticking to his guns, albeit today he played the more negative, defensive version of his usual system. That's admirable. However, my concern is that our platform to move forward won't necessarily be that strong. This system has exposed several players and they are going to leave us for pittance. In fact, I see us paying several players off to go. Although I admire Amorim's courage, perhaps he'd have been wiser to play something more in the wheelhouse of these players, getting a tune out of them and selling the ones who don't fit his proper vision at a higher value.

My instincts are that he has all the fundamental qualities. He's shown tactical sophistication with Sporting, he's an excellent man manager, great emotional intelligence and charisma and seems to be a decent coach. Having said that, I am concerned by two things at present - 1) His unwillingness to embrace the methods of Andreas Georgson (the man who Nicolas Jover replaced at both Arsenal and Brentford - meant to be very well thought of) shows a bit of a parochial mindset which is worryingly ETH like. Just as ETH dismissed Rangnick to establish authority. In hindsight, that looks a very bad move with most of our signings being crap since then. 2) How he handles the job from a stress point of view. He's open about the fact that he's very emotional. I have noticed that he looks exhausted a few weeks into the job and he's lost some of his spark. Maybe the job is too big for him.

I'm loathe to rush too much to judgement but these are the slight worries I have at present. Just as I had slight worries about ETH early on, even when he was doing great. I hope my concerns are proven wrong. We all know that the club is in a mess and we likely won't be able to rush the rebuild process. I also feel we have backed the right horse. I just don't know whether it's the right time.
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Please can you explain / expand the bit in bold. What is RA not embracing ? This is the bloke in charge of our set pieces. Attacking or defending or both ?

Thanks.
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
It’s worrying that he says he needs good results to convince the players his system works. Sounds like he’s facing opposition in the dressing room.
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That’s true for any team. You need wins for confidence and belief. Look at City. It’s happening to Pep of all people.
 
Garethw said:
The big question is whether the 3 at the back system is now going to be our system from now on regardless of the manager? I can’t see us spending any specialist players for this system if they have doubts over Amorim and want to move back to a 433 with another manager.
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I don't buy into the specialised players thing. Good players can play in different systems.

Our current players aren't bad at Amorim's system. They are just bad in general.
 
Hester_manc said:
How is that irrelvant and nonsense? If that is true we could hire a manager from almost any league...
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Exactly, all of the most successful PL managers in recent years had no PL experience prior to excelling here.
 
I’m still fine with the system (and it’s not as if we were great with the old one) but putting more aggressive wing backs in the team makes it look a lot more attacking.

Antony and/or Amad looks slightly more threatening than Dalot and Mazraoui.
 
hellhunter said:
Don't disagree with your point, but it took Fergie forever to do 'fine'
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And yes Amorim needs time cause he knows exactly what he is doing. And whatever he said is all coming true.

In his first presser he needs there will be ST pain but a year from now we will be better for it.

After the Everton game he said don’t focus on the score line, focus on the performance and that we need to be better.

He also said there will be a storm coming and a week later he was again right. We are right in the middle of a fecking huge one.
 
This is an unpopular position for sure, but I don't see the point in excluding Rashford from the team. Even if he is not top motivated, he is still a better striker than anyone else in the squad.

Amorim says he wants to help Rashford. However, I find it difficult to see how it helps Rashford to be completely out of the squad for several games in a row. Isn't that a bit of an old-fashioned way of thinking? Is this really the way Amorim thinks he motivates his player best?
 
I dont think his style is suited for the premier league, will be interesting to see when he's had a bit of time. He should sack the set piece coach though
 
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