Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Hester_manc said:
I have said before that I would prefer Thomas Frank out of the managers linked to United. That doesn't mean he would be my favorite manager, but still better suited than Amorim because the experiences of a PL club and the merits of making a team overperform in relation to its players and finances.
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PL experience is nonsense.

Completely irrelevant.
 
1000th post on a sad day.

I am so impressed with Amorim and how he comes across and I think he's very clear on what his philosophy is, however...

The Man Utd spotlight is unlike any other. Every game puts the players under massive pressure and most can't handle it.

He needs to find a way to churn some results out as while most of us are happy to back him and his system, Man Utd simply can't be sitting just above the relegation zone, it's not sustainable. The pressure on the manager and players will be unbearable soon.

I don't believe these players will suddenly 'get' the system and start playing well, and PSR means we can't really go out and replace many of them. Worrying.

I really don't know the answer. I hope Amorim does.
 
sugar_kane said:
I like him but it was disingenuous of Rúben to say the formation a team plays is basically unimportant… and it’s also kind of laughable to see people parrot this opinion

This will become a bigger talking point over the next few weeks, it’s just being overshadowed by the Rashford thing at the moment

I honestly don’t believe a great coach should be hellbent on one specific formation and should work with what he’s got.

Stick to your style and principles if you must, but base the shape around the players available.

Besides, if the formation is so irrelevant then why must it be stuck to religiously?
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How can you say he can stick to his style and principles but say he can’t play in his formation? Well that’s part of his style and principle.
 
RDCR07 said:
How can you say he can stick to his style and principles but say he can’t play in his formation? Well that’s part of his style and principle.
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Because style and principles aren’t the same as a formation? He basically said that himself.

It’s worth noting that the oft cited example of Conte winning the league with 3 at the back started with him playing with four defenders and he only switched because it suited the players better. Very critical part of the story, that.
 
BluesJr said:
Some of you pretended you were ok with his words at the start when he told you it was going to be difficult, yet when it does you start crying? The whole thing needs to be ripped up and getting wins playing on the counter with Vibes FC doesn’t get us anywhere we’ve seen this, so why desire it?

Forget about results in the league entirely this season and use it as a long preseason. We can maybe have a more serious crack at the Europa.
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We all knew it'd be difficult, just not relegation form/performance kind of difficult. My idea of what he was saying is that we'd suffer in terms of some results, but see performances that radiate optimism. Today felt like it was at the tail end of every failed managerial tenure we've had these past 10+ years and he's only been here a month. We're supposed to be suffering through an evolution, not looking utterly hopeless on the pitch.
 
sugar_kane said:
Because style and principles aren’t the same as a formation? He basically said that himself.

It’s worth noting that the oft cited example of Conte winning the league with 3 at the back started with him playing with four defenders and he only switched because it suited the players better. Very critical part of the story, that.
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But he can’t play the way he plays with a 4-2-3-1. It doesn’t work. No manager constantly chops and changes formation. To say we will be better with 4 at the back is based on what exactly? We played with wingers and 4 at the back with Ten Hag. Why didn’t the players perform then?
 
Shark said:
We all knew it'd be difficult, just not relegation form/performance kind of difficult. My idea of what he was saying is that we'd suffer in terms of some results, but see performances that radiate optimism. Today felt like it was at the tail end of every failed managerial tenure we've had these past 10+ years and he's only been here a month. We're supposed to be suffering through an evolution, not looking utterly hopeless on the pitch.
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We didn't play well today, but it was the first poor performance since Ipswich.

Results need to be better sure, but it'll take time.

If we're still in relegation form after another 3-4 months, then yeah that's a big problem. But I doubt we will be.
 
Captmfla said:
Possession doesn't mean much.

When your team is losing, normally they will hold on to the ball more to get an equalizer. The winning team will become more defensive.
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More importantly ETH points per game this season in the EPL 11 from 9 games 1.22 points per game, RVN 4 from 2 games 2pts per game, RA 7 points from 7 PL games 1 point per game.

Like I said if he ends up with 15 points from 15 EPL games, he’ll be sacked because SJR has shown form already of sacking highly regarded and sought after employees in the football world just to sack them 3 months later. Ruben needs to find players who will die for his system and quickly because if the team only has 30 points after 26 matches he will be sacked!

I still think that Wilcox in particular who has a very good working knowledge of the British and Homegrown market starts to recruite some young British talent as well. Morgan Rogers, Chris Rigg, Morgan Gibbs White, Angel Gomes, Jared Branthwaite. I’d also like to see players like Dan Gore and Collyer get a chance, we need legs right now. We have lost that British core that great English sides have, look at Liverpool right now ; Robertson, TAA, Curtis Jones, Joe Gomez, Harvey Elliot, Kelleher, Quansah and C Bradley, that’s 8 from 25.

Chelsea have T Aderbioyou, L Colwill,
R James , B Chillwell, C Palmer, J Sancho,
N Mudeweke, C Chukwemeka, O Kellyman, J Acheampong, T George.

Plus British players on loan, that’s 11 from a squad of 30

Arsenal have ; B Saka, D Rice, M Anthony Lewis, K Tierney, E Nwaneri, J Robinson, K Edward’s they have good young British core from 20-22 coming through, some like Nwaneri and Antony Lewis are already coming through, they sold Nketiah and E Smith Rowe who are both upgrades on what we are currently starting with.


Man United ; 38 year old T Heaton, 37 Year old J Evan’s, 32 Year old H Maguire, 29 year old Sick note L Shaw, 25 year old sick note M Mount, 27 year old M Rashford who wants out and 19 year old Kobbie whose struggling massively plus Toby Collyer, we used to have the best British talent, currently I’m not sure any of these would get in any top 3/4 squad currently?
 
Okay, so to clarify my earlier comments, I do not think it is realistic to fire him now, but I do not think he will be successful. I hope I am wrong.

With that out of the way, a question to those impressed by his attitude and statements - what sets him apart from Ragnick? To me, the situations look identical - philosophy and big talk (which really comes down to stating the obvious a lot of the time) combined with diabolical on-field performances.

As one poster already said - Id love to have a job where I could go "I am gonna be so bad" and then be like "See, I was right".
 
Numb to it all really.
I guess the main thing is to avoid getting into a relegation scrap, which we should really avoid even with our poor form.

Now do I have a great deal of faith in the club (the 1st team, the coaches, the board) short and long term ?

No, not really.
Everything about the club is flat, tired and lifeless.
Plus Ratcliffe being a cnut behind the scenes isn't doing the clubs reputation any favours.
 
Hound Dog said:
Okay, so to clarify my earlier comments, I do not think it is realistic to fire him now, but I do not think he will be successful. I hope I am wrong.

With that out of the way, a question to those impressed by his attitude and statements - what sets him apart from Ragnick? To me, the situations look idebtical - philosophy and big talk (which is usually stating the obvious) combined with diabolical on-field performances.

As one poster already said - Id love to have a job where I could go "I am gonna be so bad" and then be like "See, I was right".
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The results were actually better under Rangnick but the football was worse.
 
Hound Dog said:
Okay, so to clarify my earlier comments, I do not think it is realistic to fire him now, but I do not think he will be successful. I hope I am wrong.

With that out of the way, a question to those impressed by his attitude and statements - what sets him apart from Ragnick? To me, the situations look identical - philosophy and big talk (which really comes down to stating the obvious a lot of the time) combined with diabolical on-field performances.

As one poster already said - Id love to have a job where I could go "I am gonna be so bad" and then be like "See, I was right".
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What sets him apart is that we have a football team around him now who are willing to invest in him.
 
Shark said:
We all knew it'd be difficult, just not relegation form/performance kind of difficult. My idea of what he was saying is that we'd suffer in terms of some results, but see performances that radiate optimism. Today felt like it was at the tail end of every failed managerial tenure we've had these past 10+ years and he's only been here a month. We're supposed to be suffering through an evolution, not looking utterly hopeless on the pitch.
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Except we have been seeing plenty good things. Today wasn’t but let’s not rewrite history here.
 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but looking at this in the cold light of day, INEOS should have kept RVN as interim for the rest of this season and then allowed Amorim to take over on June 1st giving him nearly 3 months to get everything lined up for next season. Ruud would have got something like a top 6 or 7 place finish and a cup run IMO. This is just pandemonium what is going on mid season right now.
 
Hound Dog said:
Okay, so to clarify my earlier comments, I do not think it is realistic to fire him now, but I do not think he will be successful. I hope I am wrong.

With that out of the way, a question to those impressed by his attitude and statements - what sets him apart from Ragnick? To me, the situations look identical - philosophy and big talk (which really comes down to stating the obvious a lot of the time) combined with diabolical on-field performances.

As one poster already said - Id love to have a job where I could go "I am gonna be so bad" and then be like "See, I was right".
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Well Amorim's work with Sporting kills the Rangnick comparison to me.

And we've had good performances under Amorim. Just not good results. Our only good performance under Ralf was the first half vs Palace.

You guys are being very disingenuous claiming we've have diabolical on-field performances under Amorim so far. Ipswich and Wolves weren't great, but the others have shown progress.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but looking at this in the cold light of day, INEOS should have kept RVN as interim for the rest of this season and then allowed Amorim to take over on June 1st giving him nearly 3 months to get everything lined up for next season. Ruud would have got something like a top 6 or 7 place finish and a cup run IMO. This is just pandemonium what is going on mid season right now.
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No that's terrible too.

That just accomplishes nothing.

More time for Amorim is better.

If he shows he's not up for it by next season, then you fire him and find someone else.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Not shocked, maybe a little surprised by how quickly the bromance has come crashing down but this reaction was entirely predictable when we didn’t immediately climb into title contention.
Formation, manager and now INEOS all scapegoated. I don’t think the mouthy minority will ever accept the scale of the rot at this club or that simply sacking ANOTHER manager/head coach/human shield is not the golden gullet they would wish for to solve our problems.
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7 points in 7 PL games will do that !

Only one out of our last 5 full time coaches had Previous PL experience and that was Jose, why are we employing managers that don’t understand the league and want United to bend to their will, if he’s averaging a point a game after 15 games he’ll be gone and we will appoint an experienced PL manager!
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but looking at this in the cold light of day, INEOS should have kept RVN as interim for the rest of this season and then allowed Amorim to take over on June 1st giving him nearly 3 months to get everything lined up for next season. Ruud would have got something like a top 6 or 7 place finish and a cup run IMO. This is just pandemonium what is going on mid season right now.
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Yeah and the same players would have screwed over Amorim next season. Him coming in now means he doesn’t need to assess the squad himself in the summer.

Plus there’s no guarantees Ruud would have got us 6th or 7th. People seem to keep conveniently forgetting we played Leicester twice in the spell he was the manager.
 
Woziak said:
7 points in 7 PL games will do that !

Only one out of our last 5 full time coaches had Previous PL experience and that was Jose, why are we employing managers that don’t understand the league and want United to bend to their will, if he’s averaging a point a game after 15 games he’ll be gone and we will appoint an experienced PL manager!
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You don't need managers with previous PL experience to be successful...

Why do you people keep peddling this nonsense honestly
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Well Amorim's work with Sporting kills the Rangnick comparison to me.

And we've had good performances under Amorim. Just not good results. Our only good performance under Ralf was the first half vs Palace.

You guys are being very disingenuous claiming we've have diabolical on-field performances under Amorim so far. Ipswich and Wolves weren't great, but the others have shown progress.
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I dont think there is a big difference between what United got and what they deserved under him. The defeat to Forest was somewhat harsh, but Everton could have had a few before United opened the scoring.

Ipswich, Arsenal, Wolves - fair results. Bournemouth - perhaps deserved a point.
 
Woziak said:
7 points in 7 PL games will do that !

Only one out of our last 5 full time coaches had Previous PL experience and that was Jose, why are we employing managers that don’t understand the league and want United to bend to their will, if he’s averaging a point a game after 15 games he’ll be gone and we will appoint an experienced PL manager!
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So you’re saying Ashworth was right? All hail Sir Gareth!
 
I wonder if it's a case of right guy, wrong time. Regardless, I think we'd be foolish to do anything stupid and I also feel as fans we need to be careful of turning on him too quickly.

There's something about this club where good players and managers turn bad. I was excited about ETH early on but my underlying thought was 'does he have that little bit of genius that Pep and Klopp have?'. I thought he was smart to be more pragmatic in his first season. It was clear that he was playing differently to the exciting football we saw at Ajax. It seemed to be a hybrid between the Ajax possession style but the counter attacking we were so good at under Ole. Yet it worked. Having said that, there were several players who would clearly not fit the long term plan; Rashford and Fernandes especially. We should have sold them that Summer while their value was high. Then ETH should've gone with full conviction in the style of play that earned him the United job in the first place - possession, clever movement, players drifting etc. Instead, he tried some weird system where the midfield had massive gaps and we pressed high. It was a strange hodgepodge of ideas and failed badly.

Amorim is sticking to his guns, albeit today he played the more negative, defensive version of his usual system. That's admirable. However, my concern is that our platform to move forward won't necessarily be that strong. This system has exposed several players and they are going to leave us for pittance. In fact, I see us paying several players off to go. Although I admire Amorim's courage, perhaps he'd have been wiser to play something more in the wheelhouse of these players, getting a tune out of them and selling the ones who don't fit his proper vision at a higher value.

My instincts are that he has all the fundamental qualities. He's shown tactical sophistication with Sporting, he's an excellent man manager, great emotional intelligence and charisma and seems to be a decent coach. Having said that, I am concerned by two things at present - 1) His unwillingness to embrace the methods of Andreas Georgson (the man who Nicolas Jover replaced at both Arsenal and Brentford - meant to be very well thought of) shows a bit of a parochial mindset which is worryingly ETH like. Just as ETH dismissed Rangnick to establish authority. In hindsight, that looks a very bad move with most of our signings being crap since then. 2) How he handles the job from a stress point of view. He's open about the fact that he's very emotional. I have noticed that he looks exhausted a few weeks into the job and he's lost some of his spark. Maybe the job is too big for him.

I'm loathe to rush too much to judgement but these are the slight worries I have at present. Just as I had slight worries about ETH early on, even when he was doing great. I hope my concerns are proven wrong. We all know that the club is in a mess and we likely won't be able to rush the rebuild process. I also feel we have backed the right horse. I just don't know whether it's the right time.
 
Hound Dog said:
I dont think there is a big difference between what United got and what they deserved under him. The defeat to Forest was somewhat harsh, but Everton could have had a few before United opened the scoring.

Ipswich, Arsenal, Wolves - fair results. Bournemouth - perhaps deserved a point.
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We've outplayed every side besides Ipswich, Arsenal and Wolves with a clear margin.

These aren't diabolical performances like you claimed.
 
This fecking forum.

We weren’t that great under Ruud either despite not losing. It didn’t look coherent or good to watch.

I actually think we look more competent now. We just don’t have the quality.

I’m not going down this road again. I can see all the signs of this forum turning on him. Not doing it.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
We've outplayed every side besides Ipswich, Arsenal and Wolves with a clear margin.

These aren't diabolical performances like you claimed.
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That will happen when you concede first. The only game where I accept things looked good was against City. Having said that, this isnt saying much nowadays.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Let him be a scapegoat, to be honest. United are his childhood club, in complete disarray, desperate for someone to step up when they're needed the most, and he's briefing about how he wants to leave.
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I'm not against it at all but it's a long standing issue of just poor planning. So many players before him and current ones should have been ousted for a lack of quality despite their 'professionalism'. I don't really care for the 'making big statement therefore others will fall in line' because I don't think it'll work especially when we are in bad form under said manager. I'm more interested in a potential sale and what that will do for our FFP/budget.

Pogue Mahone said:
Video unavailable. What did he say?
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See below.

Bastian said:


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Sly said:
I'm kinda surprised with how Amorim is struggling but I give him the benefit of the doubt. United's squad is trash but I expected some players to improve instantly. Bruno has been a disappointment for me so far under Amorim's tenure. Players are struggling to assimilate his system and instructions. I think he needs a full preseason of training and some signings before definitive judgment.
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I like what he's trying to do but I think he's either underestimating the physicality of the PL or rather overestimating the quality of our players i.e his somewhat arbitrary squad rotation. I think it's a combination of both and he's struggling to work with what he has because he's expecting more from players but is being 'gifted' such bottom levels every week. I just hope he has the mental strength and energy to not let this affect the overall picture.
 
Woziak said:
7 points in 7 PL games will do that !

Only one out of our last 5 full time coaches had Previous PL experience and that was Jose, why are we employing managers that don’t understand the league and want United to bend to their will, if he’s averaging a point a game after 15 games he’ll be gone and we will appoint an experienced PL manager!
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How much prem experience did Slot have? Klopp, Guardiola, Conte etc?

If you look at some of our previous managers.

LVG - Was way past his best

Jose - You could argue the same as LVG and he’s hardly proven us wrong since leaving. There’s a reason he’s in Turkey.

ETH - He had a great set up at Ajax, where he was just in charge of coaching and Overmars took care of the signings. What did we do? Make him manager and give him pretty much full control of signings.
 
Bojan11 said:
How much prem experience did Slot have? Klopp, Guardiola, Conte etc?

If you look at some of our previous managers.

LVG - Was way past his best

Jose - You could argue the same as LVG and he’s hardly proven us wrong since leaving. There’s a reason he’s in Turkey.

ETH - He had a great set up at Ajax, where he was just in charge of coaching and Overmars took care of the signings. What did we do? Make him manager and give him pretty much full control of signings.
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It's just such a stupid argument honestly.

All of the best managers in Premier League history had no prior experience managing a club in England before winning their league titles.

SAF, Wenger, Mourinho, Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, etc.

None of them had prior PL/First Division experience.

And people keep peddling that line over and over again.
 
VivaJesperBlomqvist said:
This fecking forum.

We weren’t that great under Ruud either despite not losing. It didn’t look coherent or good to watch.

I actually think we look more competent now. We just don’t have the quality.

I’m not going down this road again. I can see all the signs of this forum turning on him. Not doing itit
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Completely. We look more solid generally, we can build up better and play through teams now....

But if everyone is so fecking timid when they get around the opponents penalty area we're never getting anything.

While I'm at it, Roy Keane would be sending a rocket at these players every game. I reckon most of these games we've lost in the tunnel. We're obviously not up for it as much as the opposition and it shows in all the 50:50s on the pitch.
 
As a player, if you can't competently do the basics, control/pass the ball, run backwards and forwards, put a tackle in and show some level of anticipation, then i would say the system is the least of your worries. How it got this bad lord only knows, but we just have to hope and pray now that Amorim has the savvy to weather this storm and get this lot winning games.
 
Woziak said:
7 points in 7 PL games will do that !

Only one out of our last 5 full time coaches had Previous PL experience and that was Jose, why are we employing managers that don’t understand the league and want United to bend to their will, if he’s averaging a point a game after 15 games he’ll be gone and we will appoint an experienced PL manager!
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So who is an experienced PL manager that can fix this mess? You do understand this isn’t about formation and the style of play but rather the quality of players? The continuous mistakes these numbskulls keep making is making Amorim looks worse than he actually is.
 
We are a club in a massive depression. Glazer neglect for a decade (money spent but not correctly or with due diligence) Ineos getting it wrong from the get go.

This feeds through to the players on the pitch. Ontop of that I think Amorim has gotten selection and subs wrong since Spurs game.

Is Amroim to blame implicitly? Defo not? Has he contributed to the poor results? Yes he has.

If I’m at work, over a staff member who I asked to keep directing to do a specific task and they keep fecking it up, well that’s on me for assigning that task - Amorim has a ‘plan A’ and no alternative. We also know well we are not a top 4 club, but our form is still far below of what we should hit.

TLDR; club is a minefield but Amorim has not helped himself
 
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