Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Jezpeza]

We are terrible at selling players and only do so when they are beyond any use so I’m not sure we can expect that. Rangick didnt excel here but he was right - revolution not evolution is needed. The team is clearly mentally and emotionally shattered. Gradual change will only land us up in the same place soon enough - we need make big changes just as we have done at executive level.

The way to do it is to identify what players are good enough for your manager and then literally put the rest up for sale and sell them in no particular order of priority. Anyone on the hitlist an offer comes in for is sold.

At the same time what remains is augmented by carefully scouted players - I want to see no more signings of players managed previously by our managers or inordinate amounts of money thrown at over the hill relics from Real Madrid.

In an ideal word most of our players should be available for transfer in the summer and we should aim at a basic of getting a good theoretical starting 11 if everyone is available and whatever doesn't sell can make up the squad and play in the league cup etc. To be honest we wont be in Europe next year so can deal with a much smaller squad on that basis

 

[L1nk]

People want us to revert to type so we win a few matches, all is "well" until it all drops off again and Amorim is sacked in a season or two, next manager comes in etc.

There are those that say the entire club needs redoing from top to bottom, the problem is the same people who think the patience to see it through. Even if we are trash this season and barely make top half of the table, it NEEDS to to happen, otherwise there will never be any kind of reset, there will never be any kind of grand sweeping changes people are asking for.

You want Ralf Rangnicks open heart surgery? You have to come to terms with the fact shit like this is going to happen.

Anybody suggesting Amorim needs to change back to the old system or whatever is dumb at this point, you just keep wanting us to tread water constantly as we have for years and years and years.

 

[Cheimoon]

Just sacrificed Christmas with his family in Portugal to work hard and got this result.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s already feeling exhausted and depressed, poor guy.

Baptism of fire.

The errors were:
1. Not getting him in the summer so he could actually train the squad
2. Pressuring him to join now when we had Ruud playing on vibes

This carte blanche he has on 343 is very poorly timed and fear would have produced much better results either last summer or next

This is a very pertinent point. Entirely the wrong time for a total change of system and philosophy given our lack of time to train.

Yeah, I wrote about that in another thread. With his 3-4-3, Amorim obviously represents a big tactical switch from Ten Hag. Making that work requires time to drill the team in their new positions and routines - but United have had little of that since Amorim's appointment, and so the play and results can be expected to remain messy for a while still. You'd have to hope United's management took that into account and won't start questioning him if results don't pick up soon - cause that would be incredibly short-sighted.

Basically, as long as United don't get into real relegation danger and as long as underlying metrics keep trending up overall, management should be ready to accept whatever happens, so that Amorim can be given players that suit him better and can use the spring and summer to really install his football vision - so that he can subsequently really be judged next season. If United's management aren't prepared to do that, then they shouldn't have hired Amorim mid-season, but should have either picked someone else or persisted with Van Nistelrooij or some other interim for the time being.

Note that I'm not saying this is right or that fans should like it. I'm just saying that, if United's management isn't ready to stand with Amorim for the next half year come what come, then they shouldn't have hired him mid-season.

 

[VivaJesperBlomqvist]

It's just such a stupid argument honestly.

All of the best managers in Premier League history had no prior experience managing a club in England before winning their league titles.

SAF, Wenger, Mourinho, Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, etc.

None of them had prior PL/First Division experience.

And people keep peddling that line over and over again.

Yep.

Also, this idea that the English league is this special thing that is completely different to other leagues seems apocryphal to me borne of EPL exceptionalism. I don’t buy it. It’s not a different sport. Our players are just distinctly shit.

 

[Martinez4midfield]

Relegation isn't a possibly with how bad the bottom 3 is so might as well persist with the formation and hopefully things improve.

The bigger worry for me is I think there are only marginal improvements in getting more comfortable with the new formation. There just aren't many positive attributes to this group of players I hate to say it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We can’t afford to buy a whole new squad every time the next manager gets sacked. Most of the squad have been bought in the last 3-4 years it’s going to cost a fortune to replace them all.

I’m all for implementing an ongoing style of play and I assume the next manager will be one who favours 343 but surely we need to do implement this style slowly. Just blindly sticking to a system that suits absolutely zero players results in conceding 8 goals against Bournemouth, Wolves & Forest.

Implementing it slowly is as good as not implementing it at all. If you aren’t working towards the new system from day one, then there will be no meaningful change. The only way is to bring it in, drill it in and then it’s sink or swim for the players.

It’s not about buying a new squad every time. It’s about buying a new squad well for once so you only need gradual changes from there onwards. You can reach phase 2 without completing phase 1.

 

[jem]

How long did Maresca take to get a tune out if his squad ? Granted Chelsea are a better team in terms of quality than us, but hopefully we will start to gel more as a team.

Well it probably helped having a preseason

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

Please can you explain / expand the bit in bold. What is RA not embracing ? This is the bloke in charge of our set pieces. Attacking or defending or both ?

Thanks.

Georgson was brought in as a specialist set piece coach and has a decent pedigree and reputation in the game. He was allegedly a club hire rather than someone requested by the manager. We showed improvement at the start of the season, especially in attacking set pieces. Amorim has come in and immediately marginalised him. Carlos Fernandes is coaching our set pieces.

When Amorim came in, he got rid of Van Nistelrooy who was willing to be a coach under him. That was understandable because of the authority aspect. He kept Fletcher around but Fletch is easy to keep on the periphery. He kept a deputy goalkeeper coach. I think that's basically it. Georgson was retained, though presumably that was under the directive of Jason Wilcox and not Amorim as he's not using him in his usual role. He's a generic coach now. Most likely someone who hands in the bibs. It's hard to say that for sure but he's not doing the job he was brought in to do, from Ruben's own admission.

Again, my concern is a nepotism. A closed ranks, 'I only work with MY people' type mindset that we saw from ETH at times. I may well be wrong there.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The way to do it is to identify what players are good enough for your manager and then literally put the rest up for sale and sell them in no particular order of priority. Anyone on the hitlist an offer comes in for is sold.

At the same time what remains is augmented by carefully scouted players - I want to see no more signings of players managed previously by our managers or inordinate amounts of money thrown at over the hill relics from Real Madrid.

In an ideal word most of our players should be available for transfer in the summer and we should aim at a basic of getting a good theoretical starting 11 if everyone is available and whatever doesn't sell can make up the squad and play in the league cup etc. To be honest we wont be in Europe next year so can deal with a much smaller squad on that basis

Fully agree. Obviously easier said than done as our name, contracts etc all have a big impact. But intent is key - maybe we could reach the end goal by making 3-4 great signings every summer but I don’t know if were capable of acing each signing and somehow I feel a whole host of changes may make the whole mental reset more probable.

Let’s face it, it’s not just the fanbase. This team is mentally broken. They are suffering under the pressure and look a depressed unit (in footballing terms not personally). I don’t know it 3-4 signings that we usually do every summer can change that. It’s a deep rot that set in by being a constant disappointment for a club this huge globally.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

How long did Maresca take to get a tune out if his squad ? Granted Chelsea are a better team in terms of quality than us, but hopefully we will start to gel more as a team.

I don’t think it’s that simple. Feels like our problems are more deep seeded. Chelsea also signed a shitloads of 19-24 year olds giving him a reset of sorts even if they weren’t his signings.

 

[Captmfla]

That's the trouble for hiring a foreign coach from a foreign league.

Truth is some man utd fans understand the club players, opponents and premier league style better than Amorim.

 

[Marcus]

We have to stick with Amorim through thick and thin. It's not like it's a surprise that we are in this position. Our owners put a gun to his head and said join now or never.

 

[Exiled_Red]

No, we haven’t.

ETH was sacked later than he should have been. Same for Ole, LVG and Mourinho. LVG should have been shown the door after his first season, when Klopp left Dortmund. Our board was just giddy with the fourth place LVG achieved rather thinking about the long term.

Mourinho lost me after the Sevilla game. Ole should never have been signed as manager until the season had ended because things were starting to falter then and the new manager bounce was wearing off.

We have given all our managers longer than most other clubs would have done so.

LvG was arguably sacked too early. The transfers we brought it for him were shocking quality.

Jose had to go because the board weren’t backing him and he was sabotaging to prove a point. No arguments with that one.

Ole had to go because the players quit on him and he’s said as much in interviews since. Not his fault. Sacking had to happen.

Moyes was obvious.

ETH was probably at the right time. He deserved a third season based off the first season, two trophies, and all the injuries.

The common occurrence with all these managers, and their different levels of experience, is the ownership that failed all of them. Not putting a footballing structure in place. Getting behind the time in terms of data science, modern medicine, recruiting strategies, etc etc etc. That might be starting to get fixed but we will see. It’s going to take time and each manager should be given time. And if another manager is railroaded by players that can follow basic tactics and execute then they need to be fecked off for ones that can.

 

[Exiled_Red]

Well it probably helped having a preseason

Chelsea also have an infinitely more talented squad than us. They are more technical, deeper, more athletic, and just top to bottom better. They have a handful of squad players that would walk into our 11.

 

[roseguy64]

What I don't really understand is why we went from Amad impressing at RWB and Maz at RCB to one playing as a 10 and the other wider.

It doesn't look like it suits either of them and Yoro has shown very little yet to make me understand why we felt the need to blow Madrid out of the water to get him.

We desperately need a solution to LWB, Dalot should never play there again even if he's the only warm body.

It's because we've banished Rashford and Garnacho's form has nosedived. No one else but Amad and Bruno to play there with Mount injured, Garnacho benched and Rashford exiled. Eriksen isn't an option there and Antony isn't trusted there either.

 

[Reyoji-Utd]

At this point, theres no way back, we need to get on board with Amorim system and walk until the end. I have been mentioning that not only managers are to blame but players also because they are simply not good enough for the club.

The standard been eroding for years and players power were on the high becasue the club treating them as assets and will protect them. We are not ruthless enough in that regard, we cater and care too much for the club. Just look at Real and Barca, why palyers still wanna play for them even they were treated like shite because players and fans alike were made to know that the club comes first and you will be put the door as soon as you drop the standard and acting up. We were that when we had SAF but lost it all after that.

We have to do like what Chelsea and Rangick suggest, do a complete reset. Sell most like Chelsea did and revamp the squad all together in one or two windows and let Amorim start training them. All the negatives will be there but at this point, gradual changes wont help as most in the squad are not good enough. Might as well have all the new players in and traing and gel later on in 1 or 2 seasons.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

This isn't a storm anymore, it's a bloody serious hurricane!

Never thought we could be worse than under ETH.

We need open heart surgery now!

 

[JE-365]

Agreed. A nuclear reboot is necessary and as Amorim said, we will suffer before getting better.

He said we’re going to suffer ‘’a little bit’’ but I didn’t think when he said ‘’a little bit’’ that he was actually referring to losing 3 games in a row or more.

I hope we back him in the summer with big money to spend to overhaul the squad because this suffering ain’t a little bit and better be worthy. 5 months to go before it ends hopefully not more than that.

 

[Woziak]

PL proven is not needed at all.

None of those managers are good enough.

And yet they will all finish above us this year !

Not worse, but equally as shite, with even less work rate.

he has less work rate but he’s much more clinical striker and if you are going to alienate a player, make sure you have an able replacement, With misfiring Antony and Zirkzee, we have 4 striker options and he’s ostracised two, that’s his hot headed Latin temperament getting the best of him, needed to wait til he had his own players in the club before falling out with existing ones!

 

[Woziak]

He said we’re going to suffer ‘’a little bit’’ but I didn’t think when he said ‘’a little bit’’ that he was actually referring to losing 3 games in a row or more.

I hope we back him in the summer with big money to spend to overhaul the squad because this suffering ain’t a little bit and better be worthy. 5 months to go before it ends hopefully not more than that.

Three games he lost 50% of his first 10 matches and 57% of his first 7 PL games and the worst is still to come?

 

[redshaw]

Hope we have a few gems lined up in Jan window. 16th of Jan at home to Southampton looks winnable. Newcastle and Pool next in the league with Arsenal away being a third round FA Cup tie.

 

[sparx99]

Relegation isn't a possibly with how bad the bottom 3 is so might as well persist with the formation and hopefully things improve.

The bigger worry for me is I think there are only marginal improvements in getting more comfortable with the new formation. There just aren't many positive attributes to this group of players I hate to say it.

Results don’t strictly match the patterns of play. We have had more shots, possession and xG etc in a number of games we’ve lost.

The problem is that we are also conceding cheaply from set plays or huge errors. If we could just cut out some of the basic errors some of the results should improve from just natural variance.

The only thing that you question with that is whether we just have a group who are more predisposed to make stupid mistakes. We certainly seem to have a less intelligent and more emotional squad. Some of that is youth but it’s also led by Bruno and some of the other players.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I’m so conflicted right now. On one hand i am fully backing the coach to do what he knows best but on the other hand its clear that these dimwits cant play his system. We will soon drop down below 15th if you simply look at our next set of fixtures. I don’t know if this is rock bottom or the worst is yet to come

 

[roseguy64]

How long did Maresca take to get a tune out if his squad ? Granted Chelsea are a better team in terms of quality than us, but hopefully we will start to gel more as a team.

Maresca had a full preseason and also benefited from Pochettino's good work last season. Poch got Chelsea playing well in the second half of last season and Maresca has just continued that. There was shock that he was fired. There was none that ETH was fired. People wanted ETH gone and very few Chelsea fans wanted Poch gone. Different situations.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Any Sporting fans can shed some light? How was his start in Sporting? As bad as this? How long he took to establish his style of play? How many players he signed before the team can be consistently play his style of play?

 

[Toshey]

This forum proves to me that many people don't want change or fixing the club.
They can't tolerate any setbacks, can't accept that we have bad players and it takes time and recourses to fix anything really.

Some fans will be happy if we sit back and counter and get some results here and there.

Old Trafford is leaking like drain pipe, we have fecking mice infestation, NOBODY in the world is interestes in our supposedly "best players", but you find problem with the manager who has been here since yesterday.

Speechless.

 

[Orange Tree]

persisting with Bruno every match and keep moving him around wasn't the greatest idea. He should be played in one position and let him become comfortable in his new role.

At the moment he just plays his usual game regardless of where he plays.

 

[AneRu]

Where in Cape Town?

Not Cape Town, Zimbabwe.

 

[roseguy64]

It’s worrying that he says he needs good results to convince the players his system works. Sounds like he’s facing opposition in the dressing room.

Not necessarily. He's just being realistic. Former players say it all the time. Results get players to buy in more easily and quickly.

 

[frostbite]

We have to stick with Amorim through thick and thin. It's not like it's a surprise that we are in this position. Our owners put a gun to his head and said join now or never.

Is this true? Did our owners put a gun to his head? I thought they put a few millions in his contract. No?

 

[roseguy64]

I think we should take a hit to sell them. That has previously stopped us from selling but we need a humongous change. We might need to take lesser fees as long as it means we get to take the player off our books. The only way to do that is like you said wholesale changes of players.

The problem with that is if you take a hit on selling a lot of players then you can't bring in quality replacements for them. The only players you can get in will be cheap punts. Nobody proven unless they're on a free.

 

[AneRu]

The big question is whether the 3 at the back system is now going to be our system from now on regardless of the manager? I can’t see us spending any specialist players for this system if they have doubts over Amorim and want to move back to a 433 with another manager.

If the quality of the players is right the difference is not so huge. Do you think Liverpool would have struggled with this system as much as we have done? They rightly refused to change course because they have been ready to challenge for the title and win for over half a decade so it was needless for them.

Just look at the wingbacks he started with in Lisbon, they have both transitioned well to back four systems at different clubs. The CBs aren't an issue at all so it's not like we would be reinventing the wheel at all. Do people think that if we signed a forward like Cunha or an inside 10 we'd have issues playing them in a 4-3-3?

Let's remember why we are here, in the first place. We are here because we have recruited badly, we all know that the low bloke and play on the break is unsustainable that's why we attempted to move away from it in 2021. The same players causing issues now were also the ones that got Ole sacked. Ten Hag then decided to add on half a billion pounds worth of mediocrity and ended up relying on the Bruno-Rashford combo until it sunk him. We need take the bitter medicine and allow Amorim to drag this team to 2024 kicking and screaming.

 

[RDCR07]

The problem with that is if you take a hit on selling a lot of players then you can't bring in quality replacements for them. The only players you can get in will be cheap punts. Nobody proven unless they're on a free.

I think I’d rather take a shot with younger players aged 20-23 rather than established players entering their peak. Sure one or two established players is of course is necessary but I’d rather the majority of the squad be young players who are willing to learn and adapt to Amorim. Plus sprinkle in a few freebies as well which helps. If we have £150m to spend this summer I’d rather get 5-6 players to build up a squad rather than 2 established players who are at their peak.

 

[MrFishers]

Guy has barely been here half a season.Let's see his signings and how they do.

 

[AneRu]

I think I’d rather take a shot with younger players aged 20-23 rather than established players entering their peak. Sure one or two established is of course but I’d rather the majority of the squad being young players who are willing to learn and adapt to Amorim. Plus sprinkle in a few freebies as well which helps. If we have £150m to spend this summer I’d rather get 5-6 players to build up a squad rather than 2 established players who are at their peak.

Truth, we really need Wilcox and Vivel to immediately bring in players in the £20m-£30m price range that can supplement the squad. Say we get a well scouted, young LWB for about £20m, we promote young talent like Gore and we get Osimhen on some sort of Rashy swap and top deal, we could stabilize. Then come summer we go again and bring an LCB, depending on how Gore and Mainoo fare - a CM and a left 10.

After the next three games, Amorim really needs to introduce some youth into the side. We can't buy every player he needs and the more he finds solutions for the holes he has in his system from the academy, the more money he will have for key positions like the LAM, LCB and striker. But if he is going to need a LWB and a CM too from the same budget, he better be praying for a Saudi miracle to take both Rashy, Casemiro and Bruno.

 

[Kyōshi]

Amorim was hired for his potential and that's why the execs at the club urged him to come over immediately. The concern of squad fit would have been one of the first things that they would have considered, but he was considered good enough to be the guy they trusted with the new project.

I'm pretty sure Amorim wasn't expecting the squad and performance output of the players to be this bad. Like most self confident professionals, he would have thought that it couldn't be as bad as ETH made it seem. But I'm certain that now he can see it quite clearly. Most of the main players have significant deficiencies in many of the key facets such as athleticism, football IQ or perhaps even EQ. This is seen every game by just the sheer number of times the players make absolutely atrocious decisions (see Bruno - 3 red cards in 5 months!!). In terms of the personnel, he doesn't have even have a decent player with any sort of output to play in the wing back or striker position, so crucial to his system.

So much money wasted over the last few years with ridiculous signings and overall club management by the execs, supposedly incompetent enough to reduce a cash cow such as Manchester United to a position of having to cut down on £50 steward bonuses! The club is in a terrible position and more than a open heart surgery, this requires a rebirth from the current zombie state.

Unfortunately, INEOS have picked up the slack for having to correct the disastrous course the club has been on for so long. Its certain that the football people such as Berrada and Wilcox are well aware of what needs to be done to get back up to the top. If they believed in Amorim so much so as to give him the reigns to the club in this current state, then they would have done as much research into him as possible. Personally think he is a top coach and has the personality to succeed. Give him the time and the required support and don't let him be another victim of this mess.

 

[Eric's-collar]

We need to get to the magical 40pts asap, this squad is so poor in terms of quality, this like watching 2 relegation teams sadly

No one knows. Amorim doesn’t have an answer for that. It ll work when players stop making stupid mistakes and errors. IMO it’s clear this season will be write off meaning we won’t get a top 6. We take a top half finish as a bonus and focus on next year.

I'd take staying up as a bonus at this rate, we really are in the s*** atm, these players wont have the stomach for a scrap, and that worries me, wee need to get to that magical 36-40pts asap

 

[gulli_G]

I can't believe people are already gunning for Amorim. He can't possibly prevent individual mistakes, this is on the players qualities. He can improve certain players by playing them in a system that suits them, but he can't teach basic football to some of our players overnight.

Bruno does this stupidity out of nowhere and gets sent off. Players not willing to be aggressive on set pieces, thus conceding goal after goal. Dalot being totally dead end output on the LWB, when one of the strengths in the system should be quick change of play with a diagonal to the LWB. Having old Evans, Casemiro and Eriksen on last legs, Rashford who has checked out, Shaw and Mount who can't stay fit, Garnacho and Mainoo who are too hot and cold.

Feel sorry for the guy, it's only going to get worse for him, if he doesn't get some quality players thru the door in January, and God Forbid, has to integrate Rashford back.

Agree

 

[gulli_G]

Can't believe I am reading people blaming the manager, no way can you judge a manager without a few transfer windows. How long did Klopp take? Fergie? Heck even Guardiola had Tixi come in early doors and start buying his type of players, he then spent around a 1/3 of a billion just getting his defence right.

Go look at the squad Ragnick had, and the one ETH left behind £600m later, it is unbelievabley levels of more sh** now, how the heck did that happen? It's almost criminal.

We have had every flavour of coach so far, when is the penny going to drop, our squad is crap, only 4 or 5 players from this whole squad would have made Fergie's squad (let alone first team).

Calm down, accept there is no Europe, let Ruben treat this season as an extended pre-season. Club should back him in transfer market, he Inherited a worse team at Sporting and had them flying in the league and CL within a couple of seasons.

We finally have a manager who actually tells us what's going on and not just the usual spiel, knows what he is talking about, identified attitude problems (Rashford, Gernacho) benched them.

We just need him to do same with Bruno and Dalot and our team will improve in the short term. Long term let him get his players and then, if within 2.5 years no improvement, then can judge.

 

[Ntrx]

He's doing worse than start of his predecessors. You can argue he has to play he hand he's dealt but that goes for anyone starting during the season. He needs to drop his stubbornness fast because in my opinion that's what killed EtH here.