Tbf there were people saying give ETH time until the day he was sacked. He inherited a squad of shit too and changed them all out for £600m of more shit. The time=success falllacy needs adressing really.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Unfortunately they trusted the bald dumbass to assemble “his team” for “his system” and he couldn’t produce feck all. We are set back because of him, he paid 90m for Antony, 70m for Hojlunf, and whatever else he spent for strikers that can’t score! That is our number one problem at the moment.
If we had a striker that could score half the chances we created all the haters would be saying how great he is. Unfortunately he’s inherited a load of shit players that also dont seem to care at the moment.
But they have Vítor Pereira now who is a solid manager and not Gary O'Neill. Wolves has a decent squad, they were underachieving with their previous crap manager.
There is a reason why we sacked Ten Hag and there is also a reason why Ten Hag failed. You can't cry about shit recruitment, to the extent of firing the manager and possibly the Sporting Director, then act shocked when that team collapses. So we can't say we shifting goalposts for Amorim when we know the club just sank 600m into a manager who had poor talent ID.
Where I blame Amorim a bit, is that he has closed the avenue for youth selection, maybe temporarily, but Dalot, Hoijlund, Onana and Zirkzee then Bruno and Mainoo to a less extent are dragging the team down. What would it cost Amorim to try Dan Gore/Collyer, Wheatley and Amass? We can't keep playing the same players, lose and not then not hold them accountable whilst also denying the opportunity to some who would take it with both hands and run through brickwalls for him.
He has improved our goals against from open play I think. The two today were, one directly from a corner, and one in the 89th minute when we had all but one attacking trying to equalize.
If we concede a corner and have our captain sent of with 45+9 minutes to play - what chance does the manager have ? I thought all the back 3 played well today, as did Ugarte.
Mainoo was awful, could be a complete lack of confidence now, and we definitely need a goal scorer but George Best and Bobby Charlton wouldn't have scored today with the service that we provided to Ramus.
Looked absolutely knackered in the post-match interview I saw him do. Hope he doesn't have any regrets.
So instead you’d propose Thomas Frank, when past experience has shown us that stepping up from a smaller prem club can also be too daunting a challenge (see Moyes, Potter, Hodgson, Nuno for recent examples).
Yeh, they were called mourinho and van gaal....
Were you living under a rock these past 2 years when Ten Hag was in charge?
Also if we are talking about opposition he drew at home to Dutch side and we won one game in Europe in over 12 months. feck off with your stupid comparisons.
Chaps, thank you, you lifted me when my spirits were down. I sometimes feel posting anything patient or positive in here is a forlorn endeavour. So it encourages me to persist when I find a few likeminded souls. Much appreciated.
The rot is systemic. To clean it up it will always get worse before it gets better. Two decades worth of it to clean out. PSR issues can be solved by selling one player that has no amortised cost attached. The only likely route to Europe for us is through cup success, such as the EL, but a season with less games will only help us at this point. Next season will be about bedding in the new system, some new players etc, and furthering the cultural reboot. Short term pain for long term gain.
This season still has a long way to go anyway. And a good run can lift us substantially. Bad results don’t necessarily translate to losing the dressing room. What they do do, for sure, is separate those with character, determination, and leadership qualities, from the rest - failure is a necessary part of the road to success and can be incredibly informative. If the club believe they have the right man in charge, who shares the long term vision of the club, and all the right decisions are being made, and everyone is working as hard as they can, it’s not if you will be successful, it’s when.
Looking back at Ten Hag’s reign for example, his work ethic was there but the decisions were all wrong. Unfortunately for nearly everyone on the outside of the club, we can only access the quality of decision making with the benefit of hindsight, which has zero value. Ultimately we are left with two choices….trust in the road the club leadership is taking us down, and that we have the right people in charge, and understand it will take time, or…react to individual results to question decisions, rail against the direction and push to tip it all up and start again, again. At this early stage of both Ineos and Amorim’s tenures, those are the only two choices. There is a distinct lack of track record or data to make any informed judgement outside of those two philosophical positions.
I choose to look at Berrada, Wilcox, Vivell as a leadership team, and say these are clearly top pros. Ratcliffe and his massive investment and say this is a man who’s only vested interest is success. And Amorim, one of the most coveted and highly rated coaches in Europe, and say that we have, on paper, a great leadership team in place. And if they can get recruitment right and be given time to work and reshape the squad, and see through their change project, then we will likely end up very competitive and successful again. I also see that, because of two decades of rot and over a decade of poor recruitment and terrible financial management, who have a massive mess to navigate out of and it will all take time.
In the wider, longer term scheme, losing to Bournemouth and Wolves is about as much of a bellwether as beating City was. As in, not at all. It’s too early.
I’m just going to hold the line, keep my expectations low, be patient and look at the long term picture. For me it’s all about where we are in 2-3 seasons time. At that point we should be back around the top and stay there. But that’s never, ever going to happen without painful root and branch reform.
My friend, you are wrong because your post was reactionary bs. Ruben is implementing a new system of play, Erik never was so there is that.
But also it’s been ~10 games under Amorim, and improvement will be gradual and not linear. There will be ups and downs. Maybe more down than up but we should at least be willing to give him a fair shot otherwise what is the answer? Who will ever be good enough for our fans? Even Saint Pep wouldn’t turn this mess around over night which seems to be the expectation.
Was it Amorims fault Bruno lacked discipline and got sent off again?! Was it the manager to blame for conceding an Olimpico corner again?
Tuchel and emery would have been the stand out options to steady this mess
With the next 3 fixtures being Newcastle, Liverpool and Arsenal - things could get ugly for him very quickly.
This 3-4-3 system (or 5-2-2-1 as I see it) requires attacking wing backs we just don’t have the players for it to work.
This 3-4-3 system (or 5-2-2-1 as I see it) requires attacking wing backs we just don’t have the players for it to work.
I’d agree with everything you said. But we are skint. He wont get anywhere near the backing ETH did because of our FFP issues. He’s had his legs cut out from underneath him before he starts so I just dont see him doing anything with these players and don’t think he will get the money in any sort of reasonable timeframe to implement the changes in personnel needed for his ideal system so he wont last too long on this tune. Nothing against him, just saying dont see how he makes any sort of success here. Thats just how I see it panning out from here, not that I wish for it to be anything other than a roaring success
Were they really in their prime when they took charge of united?
I have said before that I would prefer Thomas Frank out of the managers linked to United. That doesn't mean he would be my favorite manager, but still better suited than Amorim because the experiences of a PL club and the merits of making a team overperform in relation to its players and finances.
All it would take is one of our ETH overpaid signings to score goals that they are over paid to do and this exhausting whining and complaining about the manager would end. Truth is we create more which the same detractors were fed up under the last manger. I’m shocked by knee jerks here, we have a shit team that we paid entirely too much for, a cancerous locker room and a club in disarray and their biggest complaint is the formation and manager.
It really is funny
Because if they’d come in and they were experienced the same, Amorim’s name would be floated about.
Or if Amorim went to City, INEOS would be called “inept” for not getting the next best upcoming manager.
The bed wetting in this thread is preposterous
What else were they? Jose had won the prem with Chelsea the season and a bit before.
LvG had just taken a poor Holland team to third in the world cup.
Emery would have encountered the same problems he had at Arsenal. Plus, when ETH got sacked he was on a long winless run himself.
Who would’ve been your favourite manager (and one that was theoretically obtainable)?
This is the problem, people are losing perspective because they already doubted his system and he has banished a hometown hero. How can he be blamed for the calamity against Nottingham Forres or for Bruno being brainless and then Onana getting beat from a direct corner whilst Hoijlund can't trap a ball to save his life?
All people are doing is piling on the fact that we have lost five in seven but ignoring the fact that we are losing because the team keeps on missing easy chances and conceding soft goals from set piece plays. It's just confirmation bias because people have been skeptical about the new system.
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Exactly
LVG was nowhere near his prime and I would replace Van Gaal with Robben taking that poor Dutch team to third in the World Cup.
As for Jose, I don’t think he’s ever been the same since his spell at Madrid. Yeah, he won a league but then we saw what happened the following season. Prime Jose wouldn’t have let things go that bad.
This. Introduce the young blood, they are good enough (better than some first team players) to let them have a game.
True, but the difference in that scenario is that ETH had been here for several years and spent 600m, so enough time has been given for him to get results. Amorim has been here 5 minutes and spent 0, so he deserves time to get things right.
I'm kinda surprised with how Amorim is struggling but I give him the benefit of the doubt. United's squad is trash but I expected some players to improve instantly. Bruno has been a disappointment for me so far under Amorim's tenure. Players are struggling to assimilate his system and instructions. I think he needs a full preseason of training and some signings before definitive judgment.
It may come to that!
People tend to forget that had ETH massive spending was justified we wouldn’t have this argument! He spent massive on goal scoring and we have over paid shit that can’t score goals. People forget that his recruitment got him fired! How can you expect a new manger to come in and succeed, I have faith in Amorim. He’s removed rashford who was a cancer and I think behind the scenes he will be more ruthless than he lets on in front of the camera. Truth is, he knows this squad is shit and probably wishes they would have allowed him to come in at the end of the season.
He's got a shit squad. We have players in midfield who are out of form, who struggle to make simple passes, and who give away possession so easily. I can't believe that a club of our stature has players who actually play in our starting 11 who can't make basic passes. We also struggle to make the right passes forward, so it makes us super easy to defend against. To make matters worse, the work rate of our players is, overall, poor. We are consistently beaten to near enough every second ball, we don't get stuck in to the opposition as a unit to disrupt their flow, and we don't attack with pace and purpose, largely because some of our players don't have pace and show little purpose.
I'm actually struggling to think of many players I'd like to see kept. We've brought in players at over-inflated transfer fees, with high wages, and with very poor output to show for it. We need players either coming into the club or being promoted from the youth team, because this current lot are shite. The league position doesn't lie. These players are either underperforming, or they're shit, or they're both.
I'm actually struggling to think of many players I'd like to see kept. We've brought in players at over-inflated transfer fees, with high wages, and with very poor output to show for it. We need players either coming into the club or being promoted from the youth team, because this current lot are shite. The league position doesn't lie. These players are either underperforming, or they're shit, or they're both.
The guy hasn’t even been here a month!
I cannot believe this forum sometimes
FFP means he aint getting £600m. Most of what Amorim needs to achieve will
have to be done with the majority of these players. Can already see where its going
Surely he has seen enough now of a lot of current players to know it's pointless persisting with them.
I do find it baffling he hasn't tried to bring in some of our younger talents instead by this point
I do find it baffling he hasn't tried to bring in some of our younger talents instead by this point
Middlesborough ?
We need to stay behind Ruben, but he’s a rookie PL coach and that’s a fact, he’s had a terrible start and needs to understand that right now he needs a result against Newcastle how ever ugly the team plays, if he’s lost 6 PL games from his first 9 which is highly probable, he and Berrada will be under huge pressure as a relegation battle starts to become more apparent.
He has 1 point per PL game that’s relegation form, he needs to be managed by Wilcox and Berrada and told that we must move the club away from the bottom 6 by mid February and if he has to play 4231 then so be it, there will be no rebuild if we are in the bottom 3 at the end of the season.
Remember ETH had 85 points from 49 PL games or 1.73 points per game and got sacked. Ruben charmed the fans, however he also was negative about the team and the performances and said we would have to suffer, he won’t be given the time for us to suffer if he’s got less than 30 points after 26 games, for perspective that’s 15 points from the 15 PL he would have coached and way below the 1.38 points ETH was getting, Wilcox, Amorim and Berrada.
I genuinely think Ruben could be brilliant but he’s made huge mistakes already;
1. Win Games win time, his quote puts him under huge pressure and that quote looks naive.
2. Didn’t Keep RVN who could have helped him transition form 4231 to 3421, we had momentum with 3 wins from 4 matches under RvN.
3. He has no real pace or attacking threat in this squad, so normally you bide your team to alienate the two problem egoistical attackers that have scored 15 goals between them and can finish better than most in the squad even if they are training badly. RA decided to banish them asap, he wants to sell them that’s great but get their value up by putting them in the squad at least. Even ETH knew that against tiring clubs, Garnaucho and Rashford’s Pace could win you points.
4. He’s rotating far too much, he’s reading the room wrongly as well, if you play a compact 3421 with Dalot and Mazroui as wing backs, you have no real width as they are not high enough on the pitch, we’ve gone from looking ok with Amad at wingback to completely ineffective in this system, we are just waiting to get beat 2 or 3 nil as we have hardly any goal threat without Rashford or Garnaucho.
Yes they both have to go but don’t isolate them until you have replacements. This current team has very little goal threat whatsoever, Wolves showed today that if you take out Amad then you easily stop Man United!
5. Stop picking Onana and put Tom Heaton in goal for the rest of the season, if he doesn’t he lose even more matches.
6. Forget about Mount and Shaw both must be sold when fit, however we need far more British and homegrown players, most of the team are not British and right now we have a Newcastle team that have a good British core of 5 or 6 players blended with elite international players coming to old Trafford.
7. Three more defeats in the next three games and the Media will destroy him!
He has 1 point per PL game that’s relegation form, he needs to be managed by Wilcox and Berrada and told that we must move the club away from the bottom 6 by mid February and if he has to play 4231 then so be it, there will be no rebuild if we are in the bottom 3 at the end of the season.
Remember ETH had 85 points from 49 PL games or 1.73 points per game and got sacked. Ruben charmed the fans, however he also was negative about the team and the performances and said we would have to suffer, he won’t be given the time for us to suffer if he’s got less than 30 points after 26 games, for perspective that’s 15 points from the 15 PL he would have coached and way below the 1.38 points ETH was getting, Wilcox, Amorim and Berrada.
I genuinely think Ruben could be brilliant but he’s made huge mistakes already;
1. Win Games win time, his quote puts him under huge pressure and that quote looks naive.
2. Didn’t Keep RVN who could have helped him transition form 4231 to 3421, we had momentum with 3 wins from 4 matches under RvN.
3. He has no real pace or attacking threat in this squad, so normally you bide your team to alienate the two problem egoistical attackers that have scored 15 goals between them and can finish better than most in the squad even if they are training badly. RA decided to banish them asap, he wants to sell them that’s great but get their value up by putting them in the squad at least. Even ETH knew that against tiring clubs, Garnaucho and Rashford’s Pace could win you points.
4. He’s rotating far too much, he’s reading the room wrongly as well, if you play a compact 3421 with Dalot and Mazroui as wing backs, you have no real width as they are not high enough on the pitch, we’ve gone from looking ok with Amad at wingback to completely ineffective in this system, we are just waiting to get beat 2 or 3 nil as we have hardly any goal threat without Rashford or Garnaucho.
Yes they both have to go but don’t isolate them until you have replacements. This current team has very little goal threat whatsoever, Wolves showed today that if you take out Amad then you easily stop Man United!
5. Stop picking Onana and put Tom Heaton in goal for the rest of the season, if he doesn’t he lose even more matches.
6. Forget about Mount and Shaw both must be sold when fit, however we need far more British and homegrown players, most of the team are not British and right now we have a Newcastle team that have a good British core of 5 or 6 players blended with elite international players coming to old Trafford.
7. Three more defeats in the next three games and the Media will destroy him!
So you seriously think we have been playing well and missing chances is our issue?
Possession doesn't mean much.
When your team is losing, normally they will hold on to the ball more to get an equalizer. The winning team will become more defensive.
Nottingham, sorry. Always got those two mixed up for decades, somehow.
Exactly this he has Amass and Mantato who could both play left wing back, he should bring Dan Gore in who has an engine and creativity and he needs Wheatley, Chido Obi Martin or Biancheri to offer some energy.
So Tuchel clearly fell out with management at both Chelsea and Bayern. He is a mess himself but somehow he would have fixed the mess here? Btw he always employed a 3-4-3 at Chelsea.
There is no way in hell we would have got Emery. And he would have also cost way more than the amount we paid for Amorim. Btw Emery also failed at Arsenal and hasn’t won anything at Villa yet so what makes you so sure he will be a success here?