Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

he has his work cut out for him, really feel for him and the expectations are massive (as in turning it around and make it work with this current squad).

The one thing has at least nailed down is his communication and the way he deals with media, he is killing it there, speaks very well, is honest as well as respectful, even with the Rashford matter, he never spoke badly against him and always maintained it is not only about Rashford, but about every single player, he showed that by excluding Garna too.

the losses at home against Forest & Bournemouth are quite bad, even though many of the goals are due to individual unforced errors, he has to find a way to eliminate it from the players' game somehow.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
This is what Glazers, Woodward and his mates have done to the fans. The expectations are too low. You are calling next season Top 4 target is unrealistic? Well, we have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion but hope Ineos Team have the same expectations like me. Otherwise, we are fecked. And how are we going to win the PL by 2028 if we don't start to finish in Top 4 next season.

In fact, many fans are still expecting us to finish Top 4-5 this season to qualify for CL. For me, it has to be better than last year 8th position.
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Both Arteta and Klopp had massive dips before it clicked and there was patience.

Add that we were in a shocking place when he took over mid season and we will also have said dip before it clicks the league position doesn't matter to me.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
he has his work cut out for him, really feel for him and the expectations are massive (as in turning it around and make it work with this current squad).

The one thing has at least nailed down is his communication and the way he deals with media, he is killing it there, speaks very well, is honest as well as respectful, even with the Rashford matter, he never spoke badly against him and always maintained it is not only about Rashford, but about every single player, he showed that by excluding Garna too.

the losses at home against Forest & Bournemouth are quite bad, even though many of the goals are due to individual unforced errors, he has to find a way to eliminate it from the players' game somehow.
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Let's see how he is in 6 months. All of our managers have been decent with the media at the start but it can all fall apart very quickly.

If he wants to still be here in 2/3 years, he's gonna need a series of "quick wins" whilst simultaneously building that longer term project. Finishing this season with a trophy and within the top 8 in the league buys him the summer.

Challenging and ultimately qualifying for the Champions League places next season gets him through that campaign.

steeeb said:
Both Arteta and Klopp had massive dips before it clicked and there was patience.

Add that we were in a shocking place when he took over mid season and we will also have said dip before it clicks the league position doesn't matter to me.
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Liverpool finished in the top 4 in Klopps first full season. That's ultimately where we need to be next season otherwise, again, it falls apart quickly. The media crusade grows from there to get him sacked.

Arsenal’s expectations were already a lot lower when Arteta arrived but he managed a cup win early on to give him fend off that initial pressure.
 
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Sarni said:
They are not training matches, they are just regular matches in which a coach is trying to implement a new system that he hopes will benefit the team in the long term. It's going to be at least 12-18 months before things take proper shape.

What you're advocating is reverting back to a system that we already know has a relatively low ceiling, and will not be conducive to long term success, purely for short term benefit of slightly better (but not really good enough) results.
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What we have is a system imposed on players designed for a different set up without wing backs (for just one instance). This may be the future but only if you have the players to employ it. And we don't. Malacia (to name but one example) was all over the shop on Sunday. Garnacho (to name a second). What's happened to him. It has to be evolution not revolution.
 
sixdwarf said:
What we have is a system imposed on players designed for a different set up without wing backs (for just one instance). This may be the future but only if you have the players to employ it. And we don't. Malacia (to name but one example) was all over the shop on Sunday. Garnacho (to name a second). What's happened to him. It has to be evolution not revolution.
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You say that as though either of those players were having a good season before this change in formation. Malacia has missed a year of football and was hit and miss before that. Garnacho was having a really poor season, by his standards. So it makes no sense to blame the formation for their current form.
 
sixdwarf said:
What we have is a system imposed on players designed for a different set up without wing backs (for just one instance). This may be the future but only if you have the players to employ it. And we don't. Malacia (to name but one example) was all over the shop on Sunday. Garnacho (to name a second). What's happened to him. It has to be evolution not revolution.
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So let's say we take your approach. Garnacho and Malacia are in bad form so we revert to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. They might feel more comfortable now and their performances could improve. Fine.

At the end of the season we revert back to the managers preferred system. What do we do with Malacia and Garnacho?

I'd rather use this season to instill the managers preferred formation and identify the players that will or won't adapt to it.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
This is what Glazers, Woodward and his mates have done to the fans. The expectations are too low. You are calling next season Top 4 target is unrealistic? Well, we have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion but hope Ineos Team have the same expectations like me. Otherwise, we are fecked. And how are we going to win the PL by 2028 if we don't start to finish in Top 4 next season.
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Agree to disagree but the notion that my take would be unrealistic is naive in my eyes. You can't just throw out "expectations dropped with fans" when all they do is watching United, and at the same time other teams, fail to reach Top4 on a consistent basis. It is just lazy. I could just reply that you are the sort of fan who is still caught in ideas from more than 10 years ago, applying logic that would fit for when United was a top team back in the day but which they have not been for quite some time. You'd probably feel misrepresented, right?

There are so much factors that go into a league finish that it simply doesn't make sense to define such a target. What if Chelsea starts to really click, Arsenal goes all out for a title clash with Liverpool and City is hitting back very strongly after a rather bad year. What then? If we'd play well the whole season you'd then be disappointed because we didn't catch those teams that are further in their journey than we are? Thats bonkers. We had the perfect example of how not to draw the conclusions right there - the 2nd place with Ole, based on your logic, we should be happy with that. And many were and thought it meant something. But the underlying numbers suggested we weren't the 2nd best team in our league, we just happenend to grind out the 2nd best results in one competition for a year. That is good but it was all but a good indicator of where we were as a team.

The first thing we have to accept is, where we are, what we are good at, what we are bad at. Then we have to work on that. There is no point putting sand in our eyes deluding ourselves that because we are mighty ManUnited we have some claim for success as long as we don't make overly many mistakes. Again, I didn't say I want to tolerate a ETH-like 2nd season with progress that is hardly recognizable going in the right direction combined with poor results. But the progress is way more important now than a good result here and there. So many were clamouring for results last season, look where it got us - now we have a new manager but he has a harder time to implement his ideas because he has bullshit EL games during the week, games where we play mostly lose-lose games that, when we win are self-evident and when we lose are a disgrace and most of the time inbetween is spent on regeneration. For a trophy most fans look down on.
Yakuza_devils said:
In fact, many fans are still expecting us to finish Top 4-5 this season to qualify for CL. For me, it has to be better than last year 8th position.
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Even more shortsighted than expecting certain positions next season. But again, you are obviously entitled to any opinion as is everybody else. I just think, those sort of statements are nothing but hot air that never really create anything positive. I mean, everybody will be thrilled if we end up with a good result this year and/or next year. There is just nothing in pointing out the obvious. But as soon as we start expecting stuff, we add pressure. And don't get me wrong, I am not against pressure but lets put the pressure where it matters - making progress as a team and setting us up to improve our performances year after year after year.

Low expectations is the last thing that should replied here as it is the polar opposite.
 
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VictoriaRed said:
Plaudits to Ruben for how he’s handling Rashford. He doesn’t meet the standards, you don’t play; about time our manager does this. No one has done this since Sir Alex. We are the best club in the world. You play here, meet the THAT standard. Love it Ruben!
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Ruben's management of Rashford has been well handled but this isn't something new post SAF.
We've had it with Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Ronaldo and Sancho.
 
VictoriaRed said:
Plaudits to Ruben for how he’s handling Rashford. He doesn’t meet the standards, you don’t play; about time our manager does this. No one has done this since Sir Alex. We are the best club in the world. You play here, meet the THAT standard. Love it Ruben!
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Erik did it with Ronaldo

Doesn’t mean it isn’t good Amorim’s stepping up
 
Yakuza_devils said:
This is what Glazers, Woodward and his mates have done to the fans. The expectations are too low. You are calling next season Top 4 target is unrealistic? Well, we have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion but hope Ineos Team have the same expectations like me. Otherwise, we are fecked. And how are we going to win the PL by 2028 if we don't start to finish in Top 4 next season.

In fact, many fans are still expecting us to finish Top 4-5 this season to qualify for CL. For me, it has to be better than last year 8th position.
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It will depend on the level of financial backing he gets over the next two windows. There is no way a finish out of the top 6 is acceptable next season if Ineos deliver a near 300m window that addresses most of our shortcomings in the first 11.

We look like we are far away but we aren't really that far, if we have a 20 league goals scorer, a true two way player at LWB and a LCB that can play but is also physical we instantly become a competitive side. The saying that goals change matches still rings true and we suck at both ends right now.
 
NZT-One said:
Agree to disagree but the notion that my take would be unrealistic is naive in my eyes. You can't just throw out "expectations dropped with fans" when all they do is watching United, and at the same time other teams, fail to reach Top4 on a consistent basis. It is just lazy. I could just reply that you are the sort of fan who is still caught in ideas from more than 10 years ago, applying logic that would fit for when United was a top team back in the day but which they have not been for quite some time. You'd probably feel misrepresented, right?
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Yaa we have to admit that we are no longer the club we were 10 years ago, we are far off that and people need to accept that the road back up will be tough because no one is standing still. There are about 7 teams with top 4 aspirations and genuine means to reach it but the sad truth is that all we have are aspirations.
NZT-One said:
There are so much factors that go into a league finish that it simply doesn't make sense to define such a target. What if Chelsea starts to really click, Arsenal goes all out for a title clash with Liverpool and City is hitting back very strongly after a rather bad year. What then? If we'd play well the whole season you'd then be disappointed because we didn't catch those teams that are further in their journey than we are? Thats bonkers. We had the perfect example of how not to draw the conclusions right there - the 2nd place with Ole, based on your logic, we should be happy with that. And many were and thought it meant something. But the underlying numbers suggested we weren't the 2nd best team in our league, we just happenend to grind out the 2nd best results in one competition for a year. That is good but it was all but a good indicator of where we were as a team.

The first thing we have to accept is, where we are, what we are good at, what we are bad at. Then we have to work on that. There is no point putting sand in our eyes deluding ourselves that because we are mighty ManUnited we have some claim for success as long as we don't make overly many mistakes. Again, I didn't say I want to tolerate a ETH-like 2nd season with progress that is hardly recognizable going in the right direction combined with poor results. But the progress is way more important now than a good result here and there. So many were clamouring for results last season, look where it got us - now we have a new manager but he has a harder time to implement his ideas because he has bullshit EL games during the week, games where we play mostly lose-lose games that, when we win are self-evident and when we lose are a disgrace and most of the time inbetween is spent on regeneration. For a trophy most fans look down on.

Even more shortsighted than expecting certain positions next season. But again, you are obviously entitled to any opinion as is everybody else. I just think, those sort of statements are nothing but hot air that never really create anything positive. I mean, everybody will be thrilled if we end up with a good result this year and/or next year. There is just nothing in pointing out the obvious. But as soon as we start expecting stuff, we add pressure. And don't get me wrong, I am not against pressure but lets put the pressure where it matters - making progress as a team and setting us up to improve our performances year after year after year.

Low expectations is the last thing that should replied here as it is the polar opposite.
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This is also important because if you set standards of performance and maintain them then results will naturally come. People also need to accept that we only have about 4 Bona fide players for any modern system, if any other manager came in even with a 4-2-3-1 that we are accustomed to he will still find just Amad, Ugarte, Yoro, Maz and De Ligt as the sure things he can rely on.

Shifting Mount, Casemiro, Rashford, Bruno and Martinez for any reasonable figures that help us replace them is going to take some doing given the wages they are on and the disparity in the wage to performances. This could be a multi year project within a project because, it goes without saying, we can't add on many top players without shifting the massive contracts we have awarded to undeserving players. And how long is it before Amad, Ugarte et al start to demand parity?
 
FortunaUtd said:
Pogba thrived under Conte and Allegri without a problem..
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In much slower leagues. In the PL Pep and Klopp's teams were always extremely hard working, and pressed aggressively. High work rate and determination, two attributes Pogba was never known for. Hence my comments, he'd more than likely struggle in those teams under those managers.

Highly doubt he'd even get in those teams at their peak levels.
 
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Globule said:
So let's say we take your approach. Garnacho and Malacia are in bad form so we revert to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. They might feel more comfortable now and their performances could improve. Fine.

At the end of the season we revert back to the managers preferred system. What do we do with Malacia and Garnacho?

I'd rather use this season to instill the managers preferred formation and identify the players that will or won't adapt to it.
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If we have learnt one thing post Fergie and certainly under past 'mistakes' like Van Gaal's notorious 'philosophy' you don't put square pens in round holes. I thought we have learnt that rigid 'philosophy' doesn't work. There has to be flexibility built in depending on the way games are playing out and also when considering the players you have at your disposal. There is more than one way to set up and saying that 5-3-2 is the right and only way to play is utter garbage. It shows a blindness to the history of football.
 
Posh Red said:
Don’t let facts ruin a good narrative
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Totally different leagues, granted he did well under those managers, in a much slower league. My original comment, was purtaining to the EPL, under two managers that demand hard work, and high work rate. Not Pogba's strong points. No narrative, just stating the obvious facts.

I always wanted to see Pogba do well here, and silence the haters. But I was always left feeling disappointed. The player clearly didnt want it.
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
Let's see how he is in 6 months. All of our managers have been decent with the media at the start but it can all fall apart very quickly.

If he wants to still be here in 2/3 years, he's gonna need a series of "quick wins" whilst simultaneously building that longer term project. Finishing this season with a trophy and within the top 8 in the league buys him the summer.

Challenging and ultimately qualifying for the Champions League places next season gets him through that campaign.


Liverpool finished in the top 4 in Klopps first full season. That's ultimately where we need to be next season otherwise, again, it falls apart quickly. The media crusade grows from there to get him sacked.

Arsenal’s expectations were already a lot lower when Arteta arrived but he managed a cup win early on to give him fend off that initial pressure.
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The PL wasn’t nearly as strong as it is now and I’d hazard a guess Liverpool weren’t in as bad a position as a club as we are when he took over.

What he needs to do is settle on a first 11 soon, get them playing as a team and stop losing to teams we ‘should’ be beating.
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
The PL wasn’t nearly as strong as it is now and I’d hazard a guess Liverpool weren’t in as bad a position as a club as we are when he took over.

What he needs to do is settle on a first 11 soon, get them playing as a team and stop losing to teams we ‘should’ be beating.
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You're going to have to show your work on that one.

Also how you got to -- a club that'd gone 30 years without a title, almost went into administration and got thrashed 6-1 by Stoke to end the season prior to Klopp arriving, wasn't in as bad a position as we are.
 
erikcred said:
You're going to have to show your work on that one.

Also how you got to -- a club that'd gone 30 years without a title, almost went into administration and got thrashed 6-1 by Stoke to end the season prior to Klopp arriving, wasn't in as bad a position as we are.
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They should have won the league in 13/14. They made a title challenge which is more than we have done since 2013. They also weren't up the creek in relation to FFP and PSR. They had assets they could sell and reinvest the money. I think they were in a relatively better position to us when Rodgers was sacked.
 
Frosty said:
They should have won the league in 13/14. They made a title challenge which is more than we have done since 2013. They also weren't up the creek in relation to FFP and PSR. They had assets they could sell and reinvest the money. I think they were in a relatively better position to us when Rodgers was sacked.
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That title challenge was a one-off driven by a single madman who left the next season and was replaced by Rickie Lambert and Mario Balotelli. That's how things were run over there.

Just because we're sitting around feeling sorry for ourselves and moaning about our shitty transfer business for a decade, it doesn't mean we're worse than the rubbish that was over there when Klopp turned up. Just look up his first squad. If that doesn't scream 8th-10th in the league, I don't know what does.
 
erikcred said:
You're going to have to show your work on that one.

Also how you got to -- a club that'd gone 30 years without a title, almost went into administration and got thrashed 6-1 by Stoke to end the season prior to Klopp arriving, wasn't in as bad a position as we are.
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I’m not doing any work on it, you think the PL had as many good teams in it back then as it does now? You don’t think it’s stronger now?

I’d say we’re in a far worse position than any of our rivals have found themselves in in the recent past. Going 30yrs without winning the title doesn’t exquate to being in a bad position as a club at any one point in time, losing 6-1 to stoke doesn’t match getting sparked regularly by pretty ,Uch everyone over the last few years and I’ve no idea where you”ve got them almost going into administration.
 
I am not saying it is what is happening, but stubbornly sticking to a system that isn't working is not a virtue. That is one of the many things that killed faith in Ten Hag, from the moment he brought Sabitzer in he stuck with an unworkable midfield set up for about 70 games in a row, leading to some of the most structurally inept football a major club has ever played.

Adaptability is a good thing, every manager and coach needs that quality.
 
Bobski said:
I am not saying it is what is happening, but stubbornly sticking to a system that isn't working is not a virtue. That is one of the many things that killed faith in Ten Hag, from the moment he brought Sabitzer in he stuck with an unworkable midfield set up for about 70 games in a row, leading to some of the most structurally inept football a major club has ever played.

Adaptability is a good thing, every manager and coach needs that quality.
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Can we seriously say that this system isn’t working though? So early on. We beat city and it was suddenly working then. We’re matching the top teams for possession? Arsenal/City. We’re dominating teams on possession and chances created. We’re not conceding many chances. The biggest issue is not having players suited for each role and not being able to defend set pieces.
 
DJ_21 said:
Can we seriously say that this system isn’t working though? So early on. We beat city and it was suddenly working then. We’re matching the top teams for possession? Arsenal/City. We’re dominating teams on possession and chances created. We’re not conceding many chances. The biggest issue is not having players suited for each role and not being able to defend set pieces.
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Not even about the system as much as the discussion around it if that makes sense. Read some posts on here that he should stick with it no matter what, problem for Amorin is that there really are not that many players who look natural fits for this system, mentioned in another thread that another major squad rebuild is coming at Utd fast.
 
erikcred said:
That title challenge was a one-off driven by a single madman who left the next season and was replaced by Rickie Lambert and Mario Balotelli. That's how things were run over there.

Just because we're sitting around feeling sorry for ourselves and moaning about our shitty transfer business for a decade, it doesn't mean we're worse than the rubbish that was over there when Klopp turned up. Just look up his first squad. If that doesn't scream 8th-10th in the league, I don't know what does.
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A one off title challenge is much better than what we have managed. Our financial state makes things much more challenging, especially given the wages we have handed out. No on is bidding £140m for Rashford.
 
Bobski said:
I am not saying it is what is happening, but stubbornly sticking to a system that isn't working is not a virtue. That is one of the many things that killed faith in Ten Hag, from the moment he brought Sabitzer in he stuck with an unworkable midfield set up for about 70 games in a row, leading to some of the most structurally inept football a major club has ever played.

Adaptability is a good thing, every manager and coach needs that quality.
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I'm tired of having no style of play because of the mish mash of players we have. We've been playing crap for years and relied on during deep, giving it to Bruno who plays hero ball until Rashford scores.

Now we're playing a actual progressive, proactive kind of football, the players are being exposed for what they are. Do we stick with this style and recruit for it over the next few years, or scumbag a few wins here and there playing crap football and have the same issues next year. The season barring the Europa League is already a write off in my opinion. So let's just go for it.

I actually think this is some of the best football we've played in a while by the way. We keep the ball, get the ball in the box a lot more and concede far less chances. Imagine this set up with better players.
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
What he needs to do is settle on a first 11 soon, get them playing as a team and stop losing to teams we ‘should’ be beating.
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He probably already has, I think he has been quite open about the squad being rotated due to the heavy schedule.

This will probably be the case into the 2nd/3rd week of January where we are hopefully advanced in the EL and probably put of the FA Cup, if we do go out then those couple of full weeks with no games while the 4th and 5th rounds are being played will almost certainly be used for heavy tactical/system work.
 
dubplate warrior said:
I'm tired of having no style of play because of the mish mash of players we have. We've been playing crap for years and relied on during deep, giving it to Bruno who plays hero ball until Rashford scores.

Now we're playing a actual progressive, proactive kind of football, the players are being exposed for what they are. Do we stick with this style and recruit for it over the next few years, or scumbag a few wins here and there playing crap football and have the same issues next year. The season barring the Europa League is already a write off in my opinion. So let's just go for it.

I actually think this is some of the best football we've played in a while by the way. We keep the ball, get the ball in the box a lot more and concede far less chances. Imagine this set up with better players.
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I don't disagree, there is some promise there. However we don't have those players yet, and there will be results pressure on Amorin at some point, which may mean he will have to adapt his tactics to fit the players he does currently have.

People shouldn't overreact if that happens.
 
Bobski said:
I don't disagree, there is some promise there. However we don't have those players yet, and there will be results pressure on Amorin at some point, which may mean he will have to adapt his tactics to fit the players he does currently have.

People shouldn't overreact if that happens.
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If we had him at the start with a pre season I'd expect a top 6 finish. Given the circumstances I'm not too optimistic.
 
Bobski said:
Not even about the system as much as the discussion around it if that makes sense. Read some posts on here that he should stick with it no matter what, problem for Amorin is that there really are not that many players who look natural fits for this system, mentioned in another thread that another major squad rebuild is coming at Utd fast.
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I think he should stick with it. See who adapts and who doesn't, gives a clearer picture of where you need reinforcements come summer. It's only been a few games. Some good performances, some bad ones. Ole tried to play to his teams' strengths and got the sack. ETH tried multiple different playstyles and that ultimately led to his sacking. I would like to see a manager sticking to his ideas. Its what Klopp did, its what Pep does, its what Arteta does.

I'd rather we suffer now instead of compromising, throwing his tactics overboard this year and then realizing next year who actually can't adapt to his playstyle in a fresh start year.
 
Bobski said:
I don't disagree, there is some promise there. However we don't have those players yet, and there will be results pressure on Amorin at some point, which may mean he will have to adapt his tactics to fit the players he does currently have.

People shouldn't overreact if that happens.
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Amorim can adjust his tactics without compromising his preferred 3421/343 formation, he can tweak the shape of the team during in-possession and out-of-possession stages of the game to suit the players he has at his disposal.

We might not have specialist WBs but we have FBs who can function in such roles, even Amad did well in such position.

The players must buck up their ideas and get on with it and make it work, yes Amorim is responsible here to get this team playing well and winning games but the players have to adapt quicker because Amorim has the mandate from INEOS, and any player who can't or won't fit in this new style will mostly likely be sidelined and let go eventually, see Rashford.
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
I’m not doing any work on it, you think the PL had as many good teams in it back then as it does now? You don’t think it’s stronger now?

I’d say we’re in a far worse position than any of our rivals have found themselves in in the recent past. Going 30yrs without winning the title doesn’t exquate to being in a bad position as a club at any one point in time, losing 6-1 to stoke doesn’t match getting sparked regularly by pretty ,Uch everyone over the last few years and I’ve no idea where you”ve got them almost going into administration.
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Checks out.
 
MaMa given red said:
Who are the teams we should be beating?

We were 8th last season and currently in 13th.
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We were 8th last season with the most insane injury crisis and we were top 6 for the biggest part of the season.

Results need to improve, and quickly.
 
Stobzilla said:
He probably already has, I think he has been quite open about the squad being rotated due to the heavy schedule.

This will probably be the case into the 2nd/3rd week of January where we are hopefully advanced in the EL and probably put of the FA Cup, if we do go out then those couple of full weeks with no games while the 4th and 5th rounds are being played will almost certainly be used for heavy tactical/system work.
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Yeah I hope he has and I’m sure he does. The sooner he can implement it the better.
 
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