Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

sugar_kane said:
With all the Rashford drama there hasn't been much media blathering about Amorim's formation, but I expect it's coming at some point.

It seems a long time ago now but Van Gaal stuck with 3 at the back way longer than I remember, with articles about it as late as early 2015

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...nited-lack-tempo-and-risk-taking-9990087.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...et-winning-title-Manchester-United-3-5-2.html
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jan/22/manchester-united-louis-van-gaal-twitchy-bum

here's a vid of a Carragher & Neville debating it... not entirely clear when this is from but judging from the background maybe after the Burnley game early in his first season?
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9428891/can-van-gaals-tactics-work

What I can't really remember is when he dropped it? Going off the premier league site it looks like maybe it was the Leicester game in January.
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He dropped it three games in the 14/15 campaign, after the 0-0 draw at Burnley, in favour of a midfield diamond to reinstate it later on, first as a "safety first" approach for the more difficult fixtures and then (after wins at Arsenal and vs Liverpool) as a more permanent solution again. When the going got tough again, he settled for a 4141 with which we finished our campaign. We were playing a 442 diamond in that infamous Leicester game.

I think he did a poor job here, but there's a false narrative - since his departure - that he tried to implement a system he just happened to stumble upon during the WC. Why would he do that when his last renaissance at club football was with a 442 (AZ) and with a 4231 (Bayern Munich)? Furthermore, playing three at the back wasn't new to him at all. The great Ajax side he built utilized both three at the back and a midfield diamond a lot (at the same time). So, he was moving back and forward, treading known territory to him, trying to find the right balance.

And he wasn't stubborn with the formations. He lacked the profiles for the roles he wanted on the pitch, and he was hopeless in the market. Because he did try. Herrera, for instance, was deployed as a holding midfielder, a b2b player and as a #10. Blind was moved around a lot (LCB, L(W)B, holding midfielder), Di Maria was deployed as a RW, LW, RCM, LCM, #10), Valencia was tried as a RCM to bring more balance with Di Maria on the other side. Mata was used as a LW, #10 and midfielder. There are also the constant attempts to build a functioning partnership up front.

We finished in the top four that season because of two good runs: One from November up to Boxing Day (352 and diamond) and the other from March up to mid-April (4141). They both shared two things (not the formation, obviously): Carrick being available (the last tempo-setter the club has had) and a couple of other players having a purple patch (RvP during the first run and Mata/Rooney during the second). Then we went on to sign Morgan, a washed up Schweinsteiger and Depay/Martial to solve our problems...
 
At the end of the day, Amorim’s progress will be determined by the quality (or lack of) of the squad he possesses. Currently we have a paper thin squad without a single bona fide world class player (if you discount the has beens such as Casemiro).

Because we are Manchester United, these otherwise mediocre players are expected to produce magical moments as if they can somehow conjure up the winning legacy and relentless tenacity of days gone by.

And when they rather expectedly and miserably fail to do so, the manager becomes the first in the firing line while the players are free to steal a living.

Rinse and repeat.
 
Marwood said:
I think that approach results in a squad far too young.

Like all United fans I enjoy young players coming through be it academy or bought in.

But after 10 years of rubbish this club needs some success now. Another five years of this whilst we wait for young players to be hopefully good enough isn't practical.

The next two windows needs six players in that 23 to 28 age bracket. Guys who've confirmed they're ready. Who can hit the ground running. No more teenagers or 30 + players for a while.

They might not all be top quality due to budget restraints but this has to happen.
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I really don't see INEOS signing many, if any, players who are 26+, unless it's a bargain basement price like Mazraoui.

28 is "old" now in football terms. Not because some players physically can't play into their 30s, but because of what it means for their contractual situation.

Players signed at 26/27 will want 4 + 1 deals on big money. When you make those kind of signings, you HAVE to get them correct...and we never do.
 
Lentwood said:
I really don't see INEOS signing many, if any, players who are 26+, unless it's a bargain basement price like Mazraoui.

28 is "old" now in football terms. Not because some players physically can't play into their 30s, but because of what it means for their contractual situation.

Players signed at 26/27 will want 4 + 1 deals on big money. When you make those kind of signings, you HAVE to get them correct...and we never do.
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Know what you mean. 23 to 28 was just a rough bracket. Obviously you'd prefer them at the lower end of that.

For United, whatever the age, it seems to be big money. A teenager in Yoro or an older player in Casemiro, we pay top dollar.

It just doesn't seem feasible to me, given our state, to invest more in young players who might be good enough in three years. Amorim won't last if we do that. He needs players who are ready now.

For example we shouldn't be looking at Dibling. Look more at McNeil. The latter might be a more boring name but you know what you're getting.
 
Taken loads of fans over a decade to cop on that the problem has been less so managers, moreso how the club has failed to help managers build a quality squad. I’ve been a broken record since Woodward flew around the world only to get fellaini, when fans were happy to presume it was what Moyes wanted. It clearly wasn’t as Fellaini was available for much cheaper at start of that transfer window , he was bought cause Woodward was a clown. Mata was bought for Woodward , not for Moyes who never played any system that would want a Mata player.

LVG complained , Jose complained , there were hints that United were getting players they could under ETH, no necessarily the ones the club should have been prioritising. Casemiro , looked just like Mata , Di Maria, Sanchez , Ronaldo another big name the club could get but whom wasn’t necessarily part of any longer term plan and ultimately left managers struggling to get the most out of them.

That’s been United since Ferguson left. New managers , money spent badly and for some reason fans happy to apportion blame of consistent bad spending on managers. Weird that absolutely no other half decent club suffers the same fate.

If this is the club finally taking responsibility for its own dysfunction, then I’m all for it. A disasterous season to properly purge all the poison and rotten culture, bring it on. But I’d worry a lot of fans still don’t fully get the Job on Ruben’s hands. In some way, it would of been better having an interim manager (ala Ragnick) to take all the flack while he try’s to really weed out the issues.

In some ways , this is a very familiar situation. United hiring a manager for a squad that really doesn’t suit what they want to do. So that doesn’t fill me with joy joy feelings. I don’t think this is a lower half of table squad because even injury ravaged it got 8th last season but I understand if Ruben’s gonna fanny about things may get worse.

The problem was not ETH anymore then it was LVG or Jose, the clubs just been a steaming pile of sh*t, throwing bad money to paper over fundamentally dysfunctional football infrastructure that’s consistently flopped.. The clubs been setup to fail and hopefully this is a proper reset .
 
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Chumpsbechumps said:
Taken loads of fans over a decade to cop on that the problem has been less so managers, moreso how the club has failed to help managers build a quality squad. I’ve been a broken record since Woodward flew around the world only to get fellaini, when fans were happy to presume it was what Moyes wanted. It clearly wasn’t as Fellaini was available for much cheaper at start of that transfer window , he was bought cause Woodward was a clown. Mata was bought for Woodward , not for Moyes who never played any system that would want a Mata player.

LVG complained , Jose complained , there were hints that United were getting players they could under ETH, no necessarily the ones the club should have been prioritising. Casemiro , looked just like Mata , Di Maria, Sanchez , Ronaldo another big name the club could get but whom wasn’t necessarily part of any longer term plan and ultimately left managers struggling to get the most out of them.

That’s been United since Ferguson left. New managers , money spent badly and for some reason fans happy to apportion blame of consistent bad spending on managers. Weird that absolutely no other half decent club suffers the same fate.

If this is the club finally taking responsibility for its own dysfunction, then I’m all for it. A disasterous season to properly purge all the poison and rotten culture, bring it on. But I’d worry a lot of fans still don’t fully get the Job on Ruben’s hands. In some way, it would of been better having an interview manager (ala Ragnick) to take all the flack while he try’s to really weed out the issues.

In some ways , this is a very familiar situation. United hiring a manager for a squad that really doesn’t suit what they want to do. So that doesn’t fill me with joy joy feelings. I don’t think this is a lower half of table squad because even injury ravaged it got 8th last season but I understand if Ruben’s gonna fanny about things may get worse.

The problem was not ETH anymore then it was LVG or Jose, the clubs just been a steaming pile of sh*t, throwing bad money to paper over fundamentally dysfunctional football infrastructure that’s consistently flopped.. The clubs been setup to fail and hopefully this is a proper reset .
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Dysfunctional organizations do dysfunctional things.
 
gulli_G said:
Ruben has shown more improvement in 1 month, than ETH in his whole time here. This is an extended preseason for him, almost every game is a new team.

If he had settled on a team and was playing them week in week out then maybe some complaints are valid. But he is not, plus I only think 5 players are United quality.

If ok, in 2 years we haven't improved, then I would reassess my stance but for now, he has my full support. Amorim is exposing the level of the squad no papering over the cracks with a win here or there.

United fans need to come out of their bubble and face reality, this squad is mid, hence us being midtable, even Ratcliffe said our squad is bad, hopefully Ruben has the full backing of the board.
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Ruben has yet to accomplish anything here, to compare him favorably to Ten Hag is premature. We look more solid, but losing against Bournemouth, Forest, Spurs and Wolves will get him sacked before he gets a chance to improve us.

I hope Amorim gets the team to find form and is able to strengthen us in January. Pray that he does.
 
NLunited said:
Ruben has yet to accomplish anything here, to compare him favorably to Ten Hag is premature. We look more solid, but losing against Bournemouth, Forest, Spurs and Wolves will get him sacked before he gets a chance to improve us.

I hope Amorim gets the team to find form and is able to strengthen us in January. Pray that he does.
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He ain’t getting sacked any time soon, jesus christ
 
MadDogg said:
ETH's system, or anything like it, would never have worked in the longterm. The huge gaps he was leaving, the deep defensive line, the pressing which was all about numbers instead of positioning, the constant all-or-nothing passes, the focus on quick transitions etc. There was no aspect of it that was worth keeping or that could have been slightly tweaked to bring us success. He was basically doing the exact opposite of what is proving to be successful everywhere else over the last decade. It's why it was so stupid to keep him this season as it was nothing but a waste of time (and money).

Sure, some managers may have been a bit less of a change, but anybody who we bought in that implemented something that could be successful would still have made huge changes. What ETH had done was so unbelievably bad that 'evolution rather than revolution' was never going to be an option.

This is the new start. From this point on we need to ensure there is a smooth transition between managers. That doesn't mean they need to be exactly the same or play the exact same formation, or anything like that. But the basics need to be similar. But the starting point is Amorim, not from ETH.

People talk like playing this formation locks us into similar formations in the future, but really the only positions that are somewhat unique are the wide positions. And even then, most players that are perfect for the wingback roles will normally be fine as either a normal fullback or winger in a different formation (albeit some may not be as good). And historically one of the #10's that Amorim plays is more of an inverted winger.
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Amorim‘s style is very close to Ten Hag‘s style this season. He is absolutely a good appointment to follow Ten Hag. The attacking formation is the same.

Last season should be disregarded because most games Ten Hag could not put together a team that was fit. This is well documented.

Ten Hag lost games this season that we should have won based on performance/xG, and the same is happening to Amorim.
 
NLunited said:
Amorim‘s style is very close to Ten Hag‘s style this season. He is absolutely a good appointment to follow Ten Hag. The attacking formation is the same.

Last season should be disregarded because most games Ten Hag could not put together a team that was fit. This is well documented.

Ten Hag lost games this season that we should have won based on performance/xG, and the same is happening to Amorim.
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I mean it was kind of? Hence why Ten Hag (undeservedly) got to start the season. You need to move on, you backed the wrong horse and are clearly not giving the new horse even an inch of what you gave the previous.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Taken loads of fans over a decade to cop on that the problem has been less so managers, moreso how the club has failed to help managers build a quality squad. I’ve been a broken record since Woodward flew around the world only to get fellaini, when fans were happy to presume it was what Moyes wanted. It clearly wasn’t as Fellaini was available for much cheaper at start of that transfer window , he was bought cause Woodward was a clown. Mata was bought for Woodward , not for Moyes who never played any system that would want a Mata player.

LVG complained , Jose complained , there were hints that United were getting players they could under ETH, no necessarily the ones the club should have been prioritising. Casemiro , looked just like Mata , Di Maria, Sanchez , Ronaldo another big name the club could get but whom wasn’t necessarily part of any longer term plan and ultimately left managers struggling to get the most out of them.

That’s been United since Ferguson left. New managers , money spent badly and for some reason fans happy to apportion blame of consistent bad spending on managers. Weird that absolutely no other half decent club suffers the same fate.

If this is the club finally taking responsibility for its own dysfunction, then I’m all for it. A disasterous season to properly purge all the poison and rotten culture, bring it on. But I’d worry a lot of fans still don’t fully get the Job on Ruben’s hands. In some way, it would of been better having an interim manager (ala Ragnick) to take all the flack while he try’s to really weed out the issues.

In some ways , this is a very familiar situation. United hiring a manager for a squad that really doesn’t suit what they want to do. So that doesn’t fill me with joy joy feelings. I don’t think this is a lower half of table squad because even injury ravaged it got 8th last season but I understand if Ruben’s gonna fanny about things may get worse.

The problem was not ETH anymore then it was LVG or Jose, the clubs just been a steaming pile of sh*t, throwing bad money to paper over fundamentally dysfunctional football infrastructure that’s consistently flopped.. The clubs been setup to fail and hopefully this is a proper reset .
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The managers all clearly had a big say in transfers though. How can none of the transfer responsibility be on them?

LvG had a moan about transfers because he seemed to think he could get anyone he wanted. Mourinho moaned at the end but he also complimented the club on getting certain players. Sanchez in particular.

They all should have done better in identifying the type of players they wanted.
 
Marwood said:
The managers all clearly had a big say in transfers though. How can none of the transfer responsibility be on them?

LvG had a moan about transfers because he seemed to think he could get anyone he wanted. Mourinho moaned at the end but he also complimented the club on getting certain players. Sanchez in particular.

They all should have done better in identifying the type of players they wanted.
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We had Woodward at helm who wanted to say everyone that he has like billions to spend and buy anyone he wants*
 
Marwood said:
The managers all clearly had a big say in transfers though. How can none of the transfer responsibility be on them?

LvG had a moan about transfers because he seemed to think he could get anyone he wanted. Mourinho moaned at the end but he also complimented the club on getting certain players. Sanchez in particular.

They all should have done better in identifying the type of players they wanted.
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No, the club should have had an actual modern transfer policy. Modern managers don’t identify all the club targets , yes they are involved but not to the extent you can pin most of our transfers on them.

There’s so many examples of signings made that looked opportunistic rather then planned. So many players kept on when it was clear they weren’t good enough or should have been moved on.

Slot isn’t doing great because of Klopp, he’s doing well because Liverpool don’t rely on a manager to identify players needed. They have a longer term plan that means when a new manager comes in he’s not completely ripping up a squad and starting from scratch.

United has never provided a manager with a strong squad suitable for a manager to properly challenge. Just made some expensive signings and fans presume “money spent, signings made; managers fault if it doesn’t work out”.

Well city were winning leagues before Pep. Klopp leaving hasn’t affected pool. Other clubs don’t seem to rely on managers picking players , so I don’t understand how anybody can say “United managers needed to pick better signings” when that’s just not the way it works.
 
DRJosh said:
At the end of the day, Amorim’s progress will be determined by the quality (or lack of) of the squad he possesses. Currently we have a paper thin squad without a single bona fide world class player (if you discount the has beens such as Casemiro).

Because we are Manchester United, these otherwise mediocre players are expected to produce magical moments as if they can somehow conjure up the winning legacy and relentless tenacity of days gone by.

And when they rather expectedly and miserably fail to do so, the manager becomes the first in the firing line while the players are free to steal a living.

Rinse and repeat.
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You forgot the bit where the manager usually replaces the entire team spending 500m-1bn
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
No, the club should have had an actual modern transfer policy. Modern managers don’t identify all the club targets , yes they are involved but not to the extent you can pin most of our transfers on them.

There’s so many examples of signings made that looked opportunistic rather then planned. So many players kept on when it was clear they weren’t good enough or should have been moved on.

Slot isn’t doing great because of Klopp, he’s doing well because Liverpool don’t rely on a manager to identify players needed. They have a longer term plan that means when a new manager comes in he’s not completely ripping up a squad and starting from scratch.

United has never provided a manager with a strong squad suitable for a manager to properly challenge. Just made some expensive signings and fans presume “money spent, signings made; managers fault if it doesn’t work out”.

Well city were winning leagues before Pep. Klopp leaving hasn’t affected pool. Other clubs don’t seem to rely on managers picking players , so I don’t understand how anybody can say “United managers needed to pick better signings” when that’s just not the way it works.
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Because ultimately the managers were picking players. They wanted that influence.

We can debate how much of a say they should get but once they have that influence, they should be better. We're paying them millions and they can't pick a player?

We need a right winger. Ole signs Sancho. Says afterwards Sancho prefers playing off the left. It's nuts.

LvG wanted Di Maria. He got Di Maria. Then falls out with him.

Amorim has said he has a substantial influence on transfers. So he has to do his part. You can't demand that say and simultaneously be separated from blame when you buy a duffer.
 
Marwood said:
Because ultimately the managers were picking players. They wanted that influence.

We can debate how much of a say they should get but once they have that influence, they should be better. We're paying them millions and they can't pick a player?

We need a right winger. Ole signs Sancho. Says afterwards Sancho prefers playing off the left. It's nuts.

LvG wanted Di Maria. He got Di Maria. Then falls out with him.

Amorim has said he has a substantial influence on transfers. So he has to do his part. You can't demand that say and simultaneously be separated from blame when you buy a duffer.
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Klopp wanted Brandy over Salah, the club made its own call on that. Liverpool waited for specific targeted players (VVD - Allison) instead of panic buying alternatives or “players we can get”.

It’s not simply a manger choosing players or giving the thumbs up for a signing ; it’s a club with an actual plan.

United managers have always been left short in multiple positions since SAF left. Hell Ferguson made some things work when he was having to play central midfielders in defence.

If you are a United manager at any stage taking over, there’s a lot of work to be done. If you have the likes of Arnold or Woodward haggling in your behalf you are already in trouble. If you have the club extending contracts of players to keep squad book value up (or just to keep bodies) you have a problem.

And if you’ve no actual plan outside of “try and sort of get players we want but revert to buying who we can” it’s not going to work. I always remember even something like United signing Sanchez over Perisic (who Jose wanted). Seemed like a no brainer cause Sanchez was one of the best players in the league but the club didn’t factor in what kind of player the manager wanted. Jose likes hard working players and had a relationship with Perisic that worked.

We aren’t gonna agree on this. I will summarise again by saying if the problem is/was (it isn’t) United managers have been choosing the wrong players , the question is why no other club has the same problem. No other club has wasted so much over such a long stretch of time. The managers we have had didn’t appear to have the same issues at their previous clubs. It’s uniquely a United problem because the club has been the problem.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Klopp wanted Brandy over Salah, the club made its own call on that. Liverpool waited for specific targeted players (VVD - Allison) instead of panic buying alternatives or “players we can get”.

It’s not simply a manger choosing players or giving the thumbs up for a signing ; it’s a club with an actual plan.

United managers have always been left short in multiple positions since SAF left. Hell Ferguson made some things work when he was having to play central midfielders in defence.

If you are a United manager at any stage taking over, there’s a lot of work to be done. If you have the likes of Arnold or Woodward haggling in your behalf you are already in trouble. If you have the club extending contracts of players to keep squad book value up (or just to keep bodies) you have a problem.

And if you’ve no actual plan outside of “try and sort of get players we want but revert to buying who we can” it’s not going to work. I always remember even something like United signing Sanchez over Perisic (who Jose wanted). Seemed like a no brainer cause Sanchez was one of the best players in the league but the club didn’t factor in what kind of player the manager wanted. Jose likes hard working players and had a relationship with Perisic that worked.

We aren’t gonna agree on this. I will summarise again by saying if the problem is/was (it isn’t) United managers have been choosing the wrong players , the question is why no other club has the same problem. No other club has wasted so much over such a long stretch of time. The managers we have had didn’t appear to have the same issues at their previous clubs. It’s uniquely a United problem because the club has been the problem.
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Mourniho wanted Sanchez. Praised the club for getting him when it looked certain he was going City.

He immediately dropped an in form Martial for Sanchez.

Then yeah wanted another left winger in Perisic. When everybody could see we needed a right winger.

Was just more managerial madness.

Amorim has to get this part right. He's on record now confirming he has a say in transfers and wants(like nearly all managers) that say.
 
again... handled the questions immaculately. Such a breath of fresh air after ETH and RR with their weird approach of alienating the players (which loads lapped up at the time)...

hopefully some of it rubs off on the fans
 
Marwood said:
Mourniho wanted Sanchez. Praised the club for getting him when it looked certain he was going City.

He immediately dropped an in form Martial for Sanchez.

Then yeah wanted another left winger in Perisic. When everybody could see we needed a right winger.

Was just more managerial madness.

Amorim has to get this part right. He's on record now confirming he has a say in transfers and wants(like nearly all managers) that say.
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When he talks about United needing players with a 'Keane like' mentality, you just have to trust him to make the right decisions. The biggest thing that I take from his recent comments, is mentality and I do believe he doesnt think players like Rashford have the right mentality, bearing in mind their stature within the club, hence his comments about pushing other players on etc, he thinks he should be doing more, especially with the current situation the club is in.
 
Marwood said:
Know what you mean. 23 to 28 was just a rough bracket. Obviously you'd prefer them at the lower end of that.

For United, whatever the age, it seems to be big money. A teenager in Yoro or an older player in Casemiro, we pay top dollar.

It just doesn't seem feasible to me, given our state, to invest more in young players who might be good enough in three years. Amorim won't last if we do that. He needs players who are ready now.

For example we shouldn't be looking at Dibling. Look more at McNeil. The latter might be a more boring name but you know what you're getting.
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My issue with that though is that a player like McNeil, who looks good in a team like Everton, would crumble as soon as he's at United, faced with a high pressure environment, highly-motivated opponents and relentless low-blocks.

My feeling is that United should always be looking for special talents. You can't sign special talents from other big 6 teams now, so you have to gamble on them early. That means having an excellent scouting department and taking calculated risks.
 
Bo_devil said:
When he talks about United needing players with a 'Keane like' mentality, you just have to trust him to make the right decisions. The biggest thing that I take from his recent comments, is mentality and I do believe he doesnt think players like Rashford have the right mentality, bearing in mind their stature within the club, hence his comments about pushing other players on etc, he thinks he should be doing more, especially with the current situation the club is in.
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To be fair I think ETH had the same idea on mentality and it did show in his signings. United didn't lack effort under him except for one or two.

But ultimately quality is what matters. Most players have their heads right. It's athleticism and technique that separates players.
 
Where did this idea about resting CBs come from? Mentioned that Maguire had only played one 90 minutes recently, vs City, and therefore needed to come off against Bournemouth.

I don't understand that. CBs are either injured or they're not....but surely fatigue isn't an issue. If they're carrying/managing a knock, fine...but I don't believe a CB can play 65mins but not 95mins
 
NLunited said:
Amorim‘s style is very close to Ten Hag‘s style this season. He is absolutely a good appointment to follow Ten Hag. The attacking formation is the same.

Last season should be disregarded because most games Ten Hag could not put together a team that was fit. This is well documented.

Ten Hag lost games this season that we should have won based on performance/xG, and the same is happening to Amorim.
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Last season absolutely should not be disregarded. Right from the very first game of the preseason until the last four games of the season (and it was strongly rumoured we only changed for those games after Wilcox demanded it) we played a stupid system that didn't make sense. Injuries obviously made it even worse, but even during the periods we didn't have many injuries we were still playing like absolute shit. Hell, those final four games was one of our worst hit periods of the season yet we instantly started playing better because the players weren't being set up to fail. Up until that point we could have had some of the greatest players of all time all over the pitch and it still would have failed dismally. It was only the people who wanted to support ETH to a fault (such as yourself) who put all the blame on injuries and turned a blind eye to the fundamental flaws of the set-up.

This season we were playing a more normal system and yes, our performances were better than our results. I'd agree with you there. I still don't think the basic system is anything like what Amorim is trying to implement though. What ETH was doing was still closer to Ole or Mourinho than it is to what Amorim seems to be doing. Very much transitional football and forcing passes, with no real interest in controlling the tempo of the match. While it's been inconsistent, we've seen a clear and instant improvement in that regard under Amorim. We're developing patterns of play in the build-up and attempting to control the tempo, which ultimately leads us to a very different place than where we were going under ETH.
 
Marwood said:
To be fair I think ETH had the same idea on mentality and it did show in his signings. United didn't lack effort under him except for one or two.

But ultimately quality is what matters. Most players have their heads right. It's athleticism and technique that separates players.
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Talent is easy, Pogba had talent, Rashford has talent, Martial had talent, Lingard had talent. But ultimately it's their lack of mentality which has let them down. Poor consistency, determination etc. As I said above we need we need players with a strong determination to succeed, 'talented' players with strong mentalities.
Under Eth we lacked desire, and were constantly outran by every other team in the PL. That seems like a lack of effort to me. Something which Amorim is trying to change. I feel like he knows the profile of player required by his comments. Its not just about talent.
 
Bo_devil said:
Talent is easy, Pogba had talent, Rashford has talent, Martial had talent, Lingard had talent. But ultimately it's their lack of mentality which has let them down. Poor consistency, determination etc. As I said above we need we need players with a strong determination to succeed, 'talented' players with strong mentalities.
Under Eth we lacked desire, and were constantly outran by every other team in the PL. That seems like a lack of effort to me. Something which Amorim is trying to change. I feel like he knows the profile of player required by his comments. Its not just about talent.
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Pogba was let down by his body due to contact injuries. Otherwise he has won everywhere while being a key contributor.
 
Bo_devil said:
Talent is easy, Pogba had talent, Rashford has talent, Martial had talent, Lingard had talent. But ultimately it's their lack of mentality which has let them down. Poor consistency, determination etc. As I said above we need we need players with a strong determination to succeed, 'talented' players with strong mentalities.
Under Eth we lacked desire, and were constantly outran by every other team in the PL. That seems like a lack of effort to me. Something which Amorim is trying to change. I feel like he knows the profile of player required by his comments. Its not just about talent.
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Nah that's not true. I think we had the highest in Europe ball won in opposition third stat at one point this season. You can't do that and be lazy. Diatance covered wasn't an issue under ETH.

Then look at his signings. Mostly their mentalities were good.

They just lacked either athleticism or ability.

Sure the odd player doesn't have the right mindset like Martial but Lingard ran more than anyone so that's a poor example.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
The eye test shows an improvement from Ten Hag.

We're no longer a chaotic mess of wild dervishes aimlessly running about giving up 20 shots per game.

Ten Hag's greatest asset was luck. My god that man was the luckiest manager we've ever had, we fluked so many results it was ridiculous. We should've finished around 14th last season.

Now we've lost the luck. Opponents are scoring from every other chance instead of missing everything like last season. But our overall performances are more encouraging, which is all I care about this season
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To be fair the 20 shots per game was more of a trait last season with a injury hit squad. Given the amount of injuries got I wouldn't label him as the luckiest manager.

Shots conceded in the Premier League matches under Ten Hag this season.

Fulham 10,Brighton 14,Liverpool 11,Southampton 6,Palace 9, Spurs 24*, Villa 11,Brentford 8,West ham 12.

*Played more than half that game with ten men

Shots conceded in Premier league games under Rudd

Chelsea 12, Leicester 6.

Under Ruben in Premier league games

Ipswich 11,Everton 8,Arsenal 14,Forest 11,Man City 10,Bournemouth 10

Players not marking properly on set pieces and errors leading to goals conceded down to luck?

Is butchering big chances in games down to luck also?

Needed to bounce back after a cup exit to average Spurs team. Instead followed it up with a 3-0 loss at home to Bournemouth.

For me as supporter for the best part of 4 decades what I care about is first and foremost winning matches and second the performance. And seeing that United are in their lowest position in the table on Christmas day since 15th place in 1986 wins are needed to move up the table before things gets worse.
 
Marwood said:
Nah that's not true. I think we had the highest in Europe ball won in opposition third stat at one point this season. You can't do that and be lazy. Diatance covered wasn't an issue under ETH.

Then look at his signings. Mostly their mentalities were good.

They just lacked either athleticism or ability.

Sure the odd player doesn't have the right mindset like Martial but Lingard ran more than anyone so that's a poor example.
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Thats an odd stat, considering our press was so poor and all over the place under Eth. Everything was bad.
 
Lentwood said:
Where did this idea about resting CBs come from? Mentioned that Maguire had only played one 90 minutes recently, vs City, and therefore needed to come off against Bournemouth.

I don't understand that. CBs are either injured or they're not....but surely fatigue isn't an issue. If they're carrying/managing a knock, fine...but I don't believe a CB can play 65mins but not 95mins
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Dont believe any competent manager will say what really is the rationale behind the decision.
 
always_hoping said:
what I care about is first and foremost winning matches and second the performance.
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So weird that people feel the need to point this out. As though other fans don’t actually care who wins each football match.

News flash. Everyone wants to win above all else. However some of us can see encouraging signs in matches that we don’t win. And worrying signs in matches we do win.
 
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