I usually don't pay any attention to what the managers say cuz it's mostly diplomatic stuff understandably. And I was impressed by ETH initially too. So I have to be wary of the same thing but I really like how Amorim speaks. Again maybe honeymoon phase.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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This phase is anything but honeymoon. We’ve been dire this past month. He is speaking sense and the truth both of which ten Hag never did. There is nothing diplomatic about what Amorim is saying.
A manager should be expected to raise the level of the current squad.
It does not mean Amorim should be expected to win the league but if he can’t improve the squad he shouldn’t have been hired.
Still just can't let go can you....
Both can be trueInteresting, thought it was to make possible every player has enough training sessions with the new system
I think those in The Caf that are already turning on Amorim either aren’t watching the matches or aren’t as dialed in or attuned to the tactics.
What I am seeing that I did not from Ten Hag:
1. Playing through the high press. Other than the mistakes from Onana, we are much much better breaking the high press. Players know exactly where to go and what position to be in. It’s much less helter shelter with fewer long balls.
2. Build up play is more organized. Yes, there is a lot of passing from CB to CB, but a lot more break the lines passing and the 10s occupying the half spaces to offer options. Ten Hag’s response to build up was typically a long pass to an out-of-position Dalot or a quick, all-or-nothing through ball into the channel.
3. Patterns of play in the attacking 3rd. We have much better patterns of play when attacking. A lot of cutbacks to the penalty spot after attacking the by-line. Nifty one twos to feet and close play in the box. Obviously, we need to finish these chances.
4. Much better defensive structure. There in no doubt about positioning in open play defensively. It’s basically a lot of 5-4-1 with a crowd of tallish CBs in the center of the box. Set pieces are still a problem, but hopefully we can reduce the issues there.
5. Possession. We have the ball a lot more. And we lack a polished, ball dominant midfield and have some risk takers (Bruno) who tend to be less metronome-like and more risky with their passing.
6. High press is simultaneously better organized and lethal, yet less risky. The indecision of when to press and when not to press of the Ten hag era is gone. So are the massive gaps caused by the system. Ten Hag’s “retreat” mantra after losing possession is gone. We counterpress more effectively and the CBs are encouraged to to step to challenge in the half spaces.
The results haven’t been great. But Bournemouth is a hard to beat team, same with Forest. Also, we have yet to put together a full 90 minutes of an Amorim style performance. I’m optimistic the results will start to turn positive.
Not at CB though. I can understand basically any other position on the pitch, but CBs shouldn't be tired. Plus, from experience, being bought on as a sub as a CB (or moved their from midfield mid-game) is horrendous. It takes 15/20 mins to get comfortable and up with the speed of the game. Personally believe you should do everything you can to stick with the CBs you started with, on the side they started.
I really really enjoy listening to this Bloke, his point of view and how he puts his opinion across. He’s incredibly engaging. I just hope the players feel the same.
I had to check this post to make sure he didn't alter it in his reply.
Marcus Rashford exiled at Man United over standards - Ruben Amorim
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_...ford-exiled-man-united-standards-ruben-amorimIn reading the article...the writer certainly took some liberties with the title....
Clear to me that the club (and Amorim) want to get rid of him because he isn't worth what he's being paid.
Bring in a midfielder that can cross the ball and contribute in more meaningful ways, especially in our pressing.
Agreed. I only care about performances on the pitch, everything else is a distraction.
We need to show gradual improvement otherwise I start to lose confidence in the manager.
With Amorim, it’s still too early to draw conclusions.
I don't think he needs short-term results to buy him more time. I expect he'll have a minimum of 18 months to show what he can do. He'll need results to buy him time beyond that, but not before.
To your other point, I actually don't think it is very likely that we finish higher than 8th this season. Our 8th place finish last season was an aberration - by most metrics United were not the 8th best side in the Premier League, but rather had a mid-table attack and a relegation level defence. We were lucky not to finish closer to 12th/13th. I said in the summer that I could forsee United's performances improving this season but the club finishing lower than 8th and I still think that is a likely outcome.
I do agree that 4th place will probably be the target for next season. Whether that is realistic or not will depend on how well United buy next summer.
I disagree, it’s yet anther clear and obvious get out for Rashford. Look at the context against everything else he said positive, this isn’t an attack and it just feels like you’re grasping for a stick to beat Amorim with here. He’s handled it fine. I personally would have had worse to say if I was in his position, I almost feel like he’s been too generous if anything. But I get that a) he may still need him as he is a United player, and b) we need to try to retain value.
Rahsford didnt even bother to run. In sports where you are required to do it all the time.
Disagree. If i employ people and a person with credibility told me my employees are screwing with my head and jeopardizing my future then I'd try to analyze the situation and make a decision. It is clear some people have taken advantage of Rashford's good nature to make money (books, unecessary publicity, etc.) and have caused more pressure to himself as a result. His PR team for one, is annoying as feck. Imagine a situation where if your PR team said nothing it would have been better for you. Well that happened multiple times with Rashford. He just needs to be his old self and disregards noises around him.
Its just weird how a humble kid who spoke so politely in interviews back in 2016, who clearly loved football, has turned into this drama stirring person who hasnt put in enough effort for his club. Of course the environment and people around him have affected him. There is no other explanation. Pogba was another case, he let his agent spoke too much controversial stuffs. Look at where is he now...
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I like Ruben Amorim. He appears humble and honest. There is also a clear improvment in our football. Individual mistakes aside, which is costing us. The football is better to watch.
We could debate whether we have the personal for his tactics, but there are clear signs of improvment under him.
Once we get the recruitment right for this new style. I can see us being a challanger again.
We could debate whether we have the personal for his tactics, but there are clear signs of improvment under him.
Once we get the recruitment right for this new style. I can see us being a challanger again.
Well not really, he was dropped for the City game and he wasn't missed. There will be more bumps n bruises along the way, but Rashford obviously won't be part of the managers plans. Also, Malacia and Antony are still more suited to a wingback role than Rashford will ever me.
We lost the last 2 games because of too many individual mistakes which cannot be blame on the manager. The comedy of errors from Onana, Martinez, Zirkzee, Malacia, Mazraoui (silly penalty), Dalot and Bruno shouldn't happened as these lots are one of the best paid professional footballer in the world.
Having said that, we expect improvement from the manager especially on defending set pieces and corners. Amorim also must finish better than 8th to improve from last year finish which was not good enough and is the major reason we sacked ETH.
Having said that, we expect improvement from the manager especially on defending set pieces and corners. Amorim also must finish better than 8th to improve from last year finish which was not good enough and is the major reason we sacked ETH.
Weve conceced what, 17 goals since Amorim took over and deployed a system that should ideally improve our defensive line with 3 CBs. We have conceded that many goals despite seeing more of the ball (again, expected when playing 352/343 variations). That's not just a symptom of individual mistakes.
Our set pieces need looking at in particular, we look like wel concede from most corners or free kicks which is quite a noticeable change for the worse that needs addressing.
Listening to him talk is so comforting
If you analyse closely, easily more than half of the 17 goals are individual brianfart mistakes from the players. Without those silly mistakes we will be in much better position. The hope now is once the players get used to the system, these mistakes will be eliminated or at the very least minimised. The set pieces defending needs to improve drastically too.
I still have very high hope on Amorim and I think he is building something special. Having said that, we also need to make him accountable to the minimum standard which is to finish higher than 8th this season and most importantly build an effective style of play.
Next season should be Top 4 and an established style of play. We can't keep giving manager 3 years. It's too long in football. LVG, Jose, Ole and ETH all failed even when we gave them enough time and money. We have to be more ruthless and decisive.
Know nothing about pro football but is it easier to fix individual mistakes or easier to develop a new coherent system?
It was a similar case this season before Amorim, we conceded fewer shots and were not as open as we were. It doesnt matter though, the onus is always on coaching staff to instil the mentality and structure defensively.
The weird thing for me is that we actually have a good set of defenders to work with. We are also keeping the ball more and still being thumped with goals. It means the rate of success for the opposition attack is too high.
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I think everyone can see we are much better defensively in open play. Both eye test and stats (xGA) show that if I'm not mistaken.
This is where set piece defending plays a major role, by us being weak at it, invariably it leads to other teams particularly lesser teams (who typically are more reliant on set pieces) getting the lead and as we all know goals change game flows and games. No wonder then the rate of opposition success is higher.
So when we are 0-0, either we improve our set piece defending or our open play attack to take the lead to change the game flow in our favor. Easier said than done.
He's seen the mess first hand and still says he already knows what to do is so refreshing. We see what he is trying do already, and some players don't even meet the first phase (he mentioned running like mad dogs as the initial step in another interview).
Whereas Ten Haag just kept mentioning a fabled process, didn't elaborate and all we saw was deterioration. Out of all the post Fergie managers I am most comfortable with letting him cook.
He talks and acts like a Utd manager should, by that I mean he speaks to the media very well and no ridiculous antics on the touchline, plus he seems to be laying down a marker to the players it's his way or the highway.
He is under no illusions that he needs results, regardless of whether he has the backing of the hierarchy at least for now, us as fans need to practice what we preach, no hysterics cos we've lost a couple of games(granted, we shouldn't be losing back to back home games to anyone, never mind Forest and Bournemouth and conceding 6 In the process)90+% of us wanted EtH gone we got our wish let's get behind him.
He is under no illusions that he needs results, regardless of whether he has the backing of the hierarchy at least for now, us as fans need to practice what we preach, no hysterics cos we've lost a couple of games(granted, we shouldn't be losing back to back home games to anyone, never mind Forest and Bournemouth and conceding 6 In the process)90+% of us wanted EtH gone we got our wish let's get behind him.
I think we are in safe hands, just don't know if Ineos don't feck him up and he decides to move on as he strikes me as someone who wouldn't enjoy seeing people lose their jobs or some of the funny cost cuts SJR is instituting.
We are in the middle of a really tough run, facing Arsenal, City, Spurs, Forest, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Liverpool and Arsenal again in the congested festive period was always going to be tough. Forrest and Bournemouth are what Villa, Newcastle and Spurs are usually in terms of toughness to beat. If we keep our heads collectively past this tough period things will start looking up.
We are in the middle of a really tough run, facing Arsenal, City, Spurs, Forest, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Liverpool and Arsenal again in the congested festive period was always going to be tough. Forrest and Bournemouth are what Villa, Newcastle and Spurs are usually in terms of toughness to beat. If we keep our heads collectively past this tough period things will start looking up.
I agree with all of this, and hope we will get better results.
I dont have any concerns with the system or the ability of our coach, but I do think there is an immediate concern with how we are coping defensively and he needs to address it.
The general eye test and possession would improve when you play 3CBs and pack out the midfield, because youl be on the ball nore. That's neither here nor there for me.
Id like to see what he does after hes supported in the next windows but generally speaking, a change toward 3 CBs tends to show almost immediate improvements defensively. I at least recall this for Conte, Tuchel and also with LVG. We are not showing this and look quite vulnerable when attacked. The set piece coach may be bedding in or whatever but it needs sorting as soon as possible.
We need the fittest, strongest, most skillful super athletes to compete. And we need 11of them asap, to compete..
He built sporting and won them their first title in like 20 years. Give this man the keys and we are in safe hands.
Pogba thrived under Conte and Allegri without a problem..
Thats my take on things as well. But - he also is an adult and has to be handled like that. It isn't just his entourage that is "blocking" us from having a better player. It is also us handing him ridiculous wages from too early on, making him the Golden boy and talking him up to that mercurial figure. There wouldn't be many people I guess, being able to not believe their own hype. Thats an actionable item too, we have to make sure to not repeat this mistake with young players right now and at least some fans haven't really gotten that memo.
The last like 5 or 6 goals we scored also came from ridiculous brain farts of the opposition so those things mostly go in two ways.
It is fine to have hope and I do too but I think there isn't much need to construct reasons to be hopeful. Constructing it in a way that we were just a bit unlucky in the last games isn't going to add up. Manager is only here since 10minutes, lets be hopeful for no reason.
See, so thats weird... so you have hope right now because we were ok but lost being a bit unlucky but next year, you expect Top 4. I don't get that type of thinking. Getting Top4 in the PL isn't an easy thing to achieve. If it were, it would take away a bit of the product value. To get Top4, we really have to be somewhere and giving him this season, one transfer window and one preseason is certainly not as generous as you think. I'd be happy with us establishing a style and be up there for a whole season. Doesn't matter whether we then end up getting the fourth spot or getting 5th or 6th, doesn't matter as shortterm success shouldn't get in the way of building for midterm success. Thats the most obvious lesson from ETHs time - grinding out results and implementing a new style don't really go hand in hand. At least when the changes are as fundamental as they are with us. And given that we expect quite a bit of change in the summer, lets just not force ourselves to be as specific as certain spots in the table. That obviously doesn't mean tolerating another ETH like 2nd season. But lets also be realistic with the expectations - Top4 isn't an easy thing to do and looking from where we are coming from, lets be modest.
Don’t let facts ruin a good narrative
This is what Glazers, Woodward and his mates have done to the fans. The expectations are too low. You are calling next season Top 4 target is unrealistic? Well, we have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion but hope Ineos Team have the same expectations like me. Otherwise, we are fecked. And how are we going to win the PL by 2028 if we don't start to finish in Top 4 next season.
In fact, many fans are still expecting us to finish Top 4-5 this season to qualify for CL. For me, it has to be better than last year 8th position.
Plaudits to Ruben for how he’s handling Rashford. He doesn’t meet the standards, you don’t play; about time our manager does this. No one has done this since Sir Alex. We are the best club in the world. You play here, meet the THAT standard. Love it Ruben!
So... we didn't need drastic changes at the club?
Ruben isn't saying we don't either though to be fair.
The difference is in how that message is put forward.