Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Berbasbullet said:
Oh yeah, not to mention Dalot randomly launching the ball into the stands too.
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Players like Dalot need to be gone, when you have a player 5/6 years down the line and we always waiting on them to come good, its time to go.

I would be happy with any of the players sold, be it my favorite player or not. The way I see it, majority of this squad has had enough time to show us what they are capable of, I cannot name 1 that is consistent.

We have the same conversations about alot of them, can we get best out of Rashford? Will Rasmus improve? Will Shaw be fit? Can Dalot play Rb? Always if's and when.

Even though I thought we played well against Forest, look at the goals.. the Wood goal is pure incompetence from Martinez to watch it go in.. Dalot being poor again defensively, letting crosses come in.

All 3 goals came from individual mistakes.
 
ClassOf'99 said:
The no 10s position and LWB is where it is all failing imo, Bruno should be further forward, and ideally we would want a better partner to Ugarte (a younger Eriksen would be perfect) who can take the ball and play through the lines.

I had hoped Zirkzee would be a great SS to Hojlund in that 10 role but I'm not seeing anything that suggests we have the right cogs in the Midfield to get things going, well that coupled with Dalot at LWB it hasn't been good so far.
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Yes we could definitely do better all over the pitch but the striker position is vital, it’s the most important position on the pitch and generally the best player. Unfortunately Hojlund is just too raw at the moment, he’s a good finisher and has the physical attributes but his touch, movement and back to goal play is stunting us imo.

A world class striker who can receive it under pressure, provide a threat and create something on their own will transform this team.
 
bosskeano said:
mate....the system means feck all if the players don't have the desire and work rate to run and do their job

4231...343 is almost the exact same system in possession with a slight alteration defensively

the issue, as pointed out by several pundits, is the sheer lack of running and hard labor these players don't put in. United aren't even in the top 12 for distance covered per match
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Then how come Ruud got results?
 
Do you guys think the hierarchy at the club will allow Amorim to do what Maresca was given the green light to do this past summer and make those super cold, ruthless decisions to exile and move on anyone he didn’t fancy? Even some players that came as a shock at the time.

This is what has to be done at United.
 
Orc said:
Do you guys think the hierarchy at the club will allow Amorim to do what Maresca was given the green light to do this past summer and make those super cold, ruthless decisions to exile and move on anyone he didn’t fancy? Even some players that came as a shock at the time.

This is what has to be done at United.
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We have to. A lot of people meme'd Chelsea for their transfer approach the past summer or two, but you could see how they were shaping the team and all it took was the right manager to make it gel, which seems to be happening with Maresca.

As far as it goes with United, we have to do the same with the likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, Casemiro, Rashford, Antony and Bruno.

The only thing that will prevent us is PSR/FFP, as I get the impression we're dangerously close to failing the requirements.
 
pascell said:
We have to. A lot of people meme'd Chelsea for their transfer approach the past summer or two, but you could see how they were shaping the team and all it took was the right manager to make it gel, which seems to be happening with Maresca.

As far as it goes with United, we have to do the same with the likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, Casemiro, Rashford, Antony and Bruno.

The only thing that will prevent us is PSR/FFP, as I get the impression we're dangerously close to failing the requirements.
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Yeah, a big problem you guys will have to deal with is that the players you need to be ruthless with are on monstrous wages. I’m sure plenty of smaller PL clubs would love Rashford or Maguire for example but they’re on such huge wages that they couldn’t afford them. And Rashford seems like the kind of guy whose ego is so massive that he’d only go to another top team.

Casemiro I have no idea how you move unless Saudi comes to your rescue. Shaw with his injures? Who would buy him? Some super difficult situations on your hands.
 
That will be a bleak run of games sadly, we seem very fragile mentally right now.
People say they will give Amorim time but we will see after this period where I think results will be terrible, the quality is simply not there upfront to score enough goals unless we can suddenly become uber solid at the back and shut teams out. He should have insisted on waiting until the summer to join and Ruud or another interim kept on because this will get ugly.
 
Orc said:
Yeah, a big problem you guys will have to deal with is that the players you need to be ruthless with are on monstrous wages. I’m sure plenty of smaller PL clubs would love Rashford or Maguire for example but they’re on such huge wages that they couldn’t afford them. And Rashford seems like the kind of guy whose ego is so massive that he’d only go to another top team.

Casemiro I have no idea how you move unless Saudi comes to your rescue. Shaw with his injures? Who would buy him? Some super difficult situations on your hands.
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Agree on getting rid of those 4 but will be difficult. Shaw I've no idea. I'd pay him off but would never happen.
 
Orc said:
Yeah, a big problem you guys will have to deal with is that the players you need to be ruthless with are on monstrous wages. I’m sure plenty of smaller PL clubs would love Rashford or Maguire for example but they’re on such huge wages that they couldn’t afford them. And Rashford seems like the kind of guy whose ego is so massive that he’d only go to another top team.

Casemiro I have no idea how you move unless Saudi comes to your rescue. Shaw with his injures? Who would buy him? Some super difficult situations on your hands.
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Yeah we've backed ourselves into a tight corner with the wages, best we can hope for is a renaissance of form for Casemiro and Rashford, and hope someone takes the plunge.

I think Maguire would do well at Villa/Newcastle, he'd be an experienced leader and provide depth squad wise. He too has also had a few injury issues the past few seasons.

Rashford should've been let go of a few seasons ago, he's gone the way of Pogba, where everyone surrounding them tells him he's the best player, even when his performances suggest the complete opposite.

I feel the Saudi ship for Casemiro sailed last summer, there was reports we priced ourselves out of the move, after they initiated talks. Think a move back to Brazil to see out his career would be his best career move, but we'll be subsidising wages whoever he moves to.

Edit: on Shaw, I think he'll be retired in a few seasons, he's never going to get back to consistent games without his body letting him down.
 
Vault Dweller said:
Agree on getting rid of those 4 but will be difficult. Shaw I've no idea. I'd pay him off but would never happen.
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Might have a Raheem Sterling situation like we have where you’ll have to pay a portion of the wages just to get them out on loan or something.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
That will be a bleak run of games sadly, we seem very fragile mentally right now.
People say they will give Amorim time but we will see after this period where I think results will be terrible, the quality is simply not there upfront to score enough goals unless we can suddenly become uber solid at the back and shut teams out. He should have insisted on waiting until the summer to join and Ruud or another interim kept on because this will get ugly.
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What help would it have done for the team and Amorim if he joined in the summer?

In my view, there is no logic to that. The players will know Ruud is an interim and take the piss like they did with Rangnick, we wouldn't be able to plan for summer transfers because we wont know what players work under Amorim.

This way, he has a good 5/6 months to work with players and decide which one can make the cut rather than 2 weeks in pre season.

There is basically no reason why taking over in the summer is better than now.
 
Orc said:
Yeah, a big problem you guys will have to deal with is that the players you need to be ruthless with are on monstrous wages. I’m sure plenty of smaller PL clubs would love Rashford or Maguire for example but they’re on such huge wages that they couldn’t afford them. And Rashford seems like the kind of guy whose ego is so massive that he’d only go to another top team.

Casemiro I have no idea how you move unless Saudi comes to your rescue. Shaw with his injures? Who would buy him? Some super difficult situations on your hands.
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I think we're going to have to do similar to Chelsea and Arsenal did at a similar time in their development, take the hit.
 
romufc said:
What help would it have done for the team and Amorim if he joined in the summer?

In my view, there is no logic to that. The players will know Ruud is an interim and take the piss like they did with Rangnick, we wouldn't be able to plan for summer transfers because we wont know what players work under Amorim.

This way, he has a good 5/6 months to work with players and decide which one can make the cut rather than 2 weeks in pre season.

There is basically no reason why taking over in the summer is better than now.
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the ability to then renege on the deal..

In seriousness, I thought as you did and posted about it but there seems to be such malaise about our team right now. Much of being a head coach I feel these days is in your reputation, as soon as Mourinho lost his first dressing room his downfall came fast, it's why Pep isn't taking challenging jobs - players talk, agent talk, all it takes is a seed of doubt and then an unlucky loss or two and a player starts giving 95% instead of 100%, it compounds across a team.

This is a somewhat pointless conversation now, but I remember talking with someone else on here about how people say they give time, but results change minds. If Amorim can't stop the form (we're averaging a point a game under him) he won't even get until the end of the season, we would finish on 42 points. Obviously I do not think it will get that bad but he's not some miracle worker and I feel it would have been better to come in summer and avoid the media battering he's going to get over the coming months unless he can get us to to turn a corner.
 
joedirt87 said:
I think there are little things you can tweak in your tactics to help the team out with the players he has at his disposal. Like how ETH wanted his midfielders to set up receiving the ball deep when he first came to United and we kept getting hammered for it. He had to shift away from that because he didn't have that FDJ like player to beat the press with our less mobile midfielders. I agree though, Amorim needs to stick to his way and phase out players who cant adapt/bring in new players that are better suited to his style and also more technically gifted and versatile so that in the event it doesn't work out we have less square pegs in round holes.
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Tweaks of course - every manager will need to tweak their systems in order to continue growing. But the core concepts remain and these players better shape up fast or can be on the outs
 
Orc said:
Do you guys think the hierarchy at the club will allow Amorim to do what Maresca was given the green light to do this past summer and make those super cold, ruthless decisions to exile and move on anyone he didn’t fancy? Even some players that came as a shock at the time.

This is what has to be done at United.
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Seemed easier for Chelsea. They could finish bottom half and 6th without anywhere as much obsession that Utd got for being shit. As a result your players weren’t memed into oblivion and their values kept because there weren’t many eyes on them. That plus all the bullshit PSR deals you did. Not every team can sell themselves a hotel to get shit done.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
That will be a bleak run of games sadly, we seem very fragile mentally right now.
People say they will give Amorim time but we will see after this period where I think results will be terrible, the quality is simply not there upfront to score enough goals unless we can suddenly become uber solid at the back and shut teams out. He should have insisted on waiting until the summer to join and Ruud or another interim kept on because this will get ugly.
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It shouldn't matter either way though, we need huge changes in the squad regardless and sitting there coddling the squad with Ruud playing the old system just to avoid fan pressure would have been a terrible idea. I'd rather it be evident from individuals failing that we need upgrades all over and for Amorim to see that, instead of him coming in next summer and needing to "evaluate" some players next season just to see they still aren't good enough then.

I also wouldn't write off the season entirely. The structure and patterns we are developing are sound. I agree the attack largely is abysmal outside of Amad and some Bruno, but I'd rather lose with obvious problems to clearly upgrade on now then have some rollercoaster season of playing the same old song and dance and waiting on a manager that isn't sure who in his new squad is good enough.
 
Orc said:
Do you guys think the hierarchy at the club will allow Amorim to do what Maresca was given the green light to do this past summer and make those super cold, ruthless decisions to exile and move on anyone he didn’t fancy? Even some players that came as a shock at the time.

This is what has to be done at United.
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I think so. The real question is whether the transfer staff can get good value for the players that get moved on. Plus we can't do the shady PSR shit you guys did either which makes a full makeover a bit tougher in one summer.
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
Yes we could definitely do better all over the pitch but the striker position is vital, it’s the most important position on the pitch and generally the best player. Unfortunately Hojlund is just too raw at the moment, he’s a good finisher and has the physical attributes but his touch, movement and back to goal play is stunting us imo.

A world class striker who can receive it under pressure, provide a threat and create something on their own will transform this team.
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Agreed. That’s exactly what’s missing.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
the ability to then renege on the deal..

In seriousness, I thought as you did and posted about it but there seems to be such malaise about our team right now. Much of being a head coach I feel these days is in your reputation, as soon as Mourinho lost his first dressing room his downfall came fast, it's why Pep isn't taking challenging jobs - players talk, agent talk, all it takes is a seed of doubt and then an unlucky loss or two and a player starts giving 95% instead of 100%, it compounds across a team.

This is a somewhat pointless conversation now, but I remember talking with someone else on here about how people say they give time, but results change minds. If Amorim can't stop the form (we're averaging a point a game under him) he won't even get until the end of the season, we would finish on 42 points. Obviously I do not think it will get that bad but he's not some miracle worker and I feel it would have been better to come in summer and avoid the media battering he's going to get over the coming months unless he can get us to to turn a corner.
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If the point comes where we have to fight for survival, I am sure we will be able to figure something out. There gameplans that are fairly easy yet very effective. Not pretty but with the quality of our players, it will be enough for the minial achievement.

I can see your point but my feeling is, you are overstating this "doubt" thing, Mourinho and Pep work with your hypothesis, but what about Carlo, Emery or Tuchel? If you'd be correct, coaches would always be on the up until they stop going up to dissopate in nothingness. But thats not the case. Pretty sure, even Amorim was able to foresee, that the conditions as a manager will be different and more difficult in different leagues.
Insanity said:
I get a feeling that he is not entirely convinced by the quality of youth players at the club. I have heard him mention it a couple of times in his interviews that we need to bring the right quality of youth players in from them to transition into the first team.

I could have misunderstood but that's what I got when I heard him mention it.
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Maybe you are misinterpreting something but I am fairly sure, it is a million times more likely that he simply didn't invest time yet to get to know the u21 players. He has a squad of professionals to coach for one of the highest leagues. The fact, that he didn't put in a player from the youth team after like 3 weeks means nothing. I'd say it would be way more weird if he did.
Ayoba said:
Exactly this! Its so infuriating and for the opposition, easy to defend! The few times we have looked threatening is when the team is pushed higher up the pitch and the ball is with our attacking players.
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Yakuza_devils said:
It's pointless to control possession at our own half by walking slowly and passing around between the 3 CBs and GK. The opponent weren't really pressing us. What's there to learn and progress?

This is definitely not Amorim style of play. I think this problem have been there for so long under ETH. That's why I think Amorim should stop this asap and play more forward passes with urgency.
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Control starts somewhere. Obviously no team wants to pass the ball around the CBs but there will be situations where this is the exact right thing to do when you want to keep the ball. With passing you are moving the opponent around to create angles.. the CBs will always only be able to be incisive when they got offered decent options, and the only one of our midfielders really moving around to create space to get a ball was Bruno. Also didn't help, that neither the wingbacks themselves nor the rest of the team really seems to catch on this whole wingback thing.

Seriously get a grip, what did you expect, that we switch Amorims Name tag on the coats and voila, we are half a season away from tiki taka? Obviously this is going to take time. And I'd rather see us moving the ball around than punting it forward hoping for some run from somebody. If that is what you are looking for, you're better off with old footage from the 90s and early 2000s. Or maybe stick to highlight reels because those phases of passing it around will be found in every team. I think it makes sense to note that we aren't where we should aspire to be. But one step after another.
 
The Mitcher said:
It was worse because beyond being a formation there was nothing else to it but chaos when ETH was using it. Ole at least had something when he tried, as did LVG and Mourinho with their teams. We can clearly see what Ruben wants to do and it's worked in some games, not in others. I expect as the schedule becomes less tight we'll see an improvement as there will be more time to train.
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Absolutely! I truly enjoy the energy and tactics Ruben has brought to the club.
 
Vault Dweller said:
Agree on getting rid of those 4 but will be difficult. Shaw I've no idea. I'd pay him off but would never happen.
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Maguire is out of contract next summer

Rashford is still performing to some extent, so still is interesting for many clubs like PSG, Juve, Atletico or Napoli. Look at McT at Napoli. Rashford may be open to that too

Casemiro. Again hope for the Saudis or hold our breath for one more season….

Shaw is an issue obviously but not on similar wages with these 3
 
Licha-Vidic said:
How many points??.


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Well, we played well vs Arsenal relative to where we are and where they are in their project, and I'm not expecting the Etihad or even Anfield to be as difficult as that match was.

We also should've won against Forest so the previous two defeats are massively overblown in my opinion.

Sure, we'll lose some of these games, but I'm also expecting some unexpected wins and a lot of good performances, and also for the team to gradually improve game by game, as they slowly get used to Amorim's ideas.

So I don't know how many points we'll get and whether we'll advance from either of the domestic cup ties, but I think we'll do better than most fans would predict if you asked them right now.
 
Rojofiam said:
Well, we played well vs Arsenal relative to where we are and where they are in their project, and I'm not expecting the Etihad or even Anfield to be as difficult as that match was.
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I’d actually be surprised if we come away from City and Liverpool by only losing by a 2 goal margin. We actually didn’t do bad at Arsenal apart from the set pieces.
 
Remember the geese said:
Why not?
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RDCR07 said:
I’d actually be surprised if we come away from City and Liverpool by only losing by a 2 goal margin. We actually didn’t do bad at Arsenal apart from the set pieces.
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Neither of those teams have the physical flooring of the current Arsenal team. We'll be able to win more first and second balls, and more ground duels too IMO. Especially against City, even if Pep puts out a more athletic XI than usually. And we were very compact and hard to play through vs Arsenal. I think we can be rewarded for it this time.

However, going forward, we'll need a bit more.

Also, as @RDCR07 mentions, these teams aren't as good at set pieces as Arsenal are, either.

And lastly, I feel like one of the key aspects vs Liverpool will be our ability to play through and resist their high-press efficiently. We sort of managed that even in our last outing at Anfield 1 year ago, under ETH. If we can do that, I think we can score goals there too.
 
Rojofiam said:
Neither of those teams have the physical flooring of the current Arsenal team. We'll be able to win more first and second balls, and more ground duels too IMO. Especially against City, even if Pep puts out a more athletic XI than usually. And we were very compact and hard to play through vs Arsenal. I think we can be rewarded for it this time.

However, going forward, we'll need a bit more.
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Liverpool will rip us apart with the way we are playing apart. Albeit we still have almost a month to play which means we “could” get better but City will use our game to get back to form especially Haaland he is a monster against us.
 
Rojofiam said:
Neither of those teams have the physical flooring of the current Arsenal team. We'll be able to win more first and second balls, and more ground duels too IMO. Especially against City, even if Pep puts out a more athletic XI than usually. And we were very compact and hard to play through vs Arsenal. I think we can be rewarded for it this time.

However, going forward, we'll need a bit more.

Also, as @RDCR07 mentions, these teams aren't as good at set pieces as Arsenal are, either.

And lastly, I feel like one of the key aspects vs Liverpool will be our ability to play through and resist their high-press efficiently. We sort of managed that even in our last outing at Anfield 1 year ago, under ETH. If we can do that, I think we can score goals there too.
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With complete and utter assurances I can tell you we will probably not be scoring “goals” at Anfield. I mean your optimism is commendable but we’ve not scored more than a goal at Anfield in 9 years. Not sure our worse ever team is gonna manage to surpass that.
 
Ludens the Red said:
With complete and utter assurances I can tell you we will probably not be scoring “goals” at Anfield. I mean your optimism is commendable but we’ve not scored more than a goal at Anfield in 9 years. Not sure our worse ever team is gonna manage to surpass that.
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I get that you're not optimistic about that game, but the bolded part doesn't matter at all.
 
Orc said:
Do you guys think the hierarchy at the club will allow Amorim to do what Maresca was given the green light to do this past summer and make those super cold, ruthless decisions to exile and move on anyone he didn’t fancy? Even some players that came as a shock at the time.

This is what has to be done at United.
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From the outside looking in I’d say it’s a lot easier to exile players when you have a squad of 400 players to pick from.

If Amorim was to boot out 5-6 players for poor attitude or lack of talent, he’d not have 16 players for matchday.
 
RuudTom83 said:
From the outside looking in I’d say it’s a lot easier to exile players when you have a squad of 400 players to pick from.

If Amorim was to boot out 5-6 players for poor attitude or lack of talent, he’d not have 16 players for matchday.
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But his reality is that he sort of doesn't have them already, in my native language there is a proverb about the futility of counting mice along with their tails thereby overestimating what you have. As much we like to comfort ourselves we don't have a squad of 25 because players like Lindelof, Evans, Rashford in his current state, Antony, Malacia etc can't be relied on to put up a professional performance over 90 minutes.

If it were possible Amorim should promote about four players from the youth to permanently replace some of the players we have in the first team. Would Amass be any worse than Dalot? Wheatley worse than Zirkzee/Hoijlund? He can't moan that the squad isn't good enough and still not take drastic action. Soon these players will cost him credibility in front of the fans and he won't last here because genuine help is coming in the summer and these could lose every other game till then.
 
I understand the "itll get worse before it gets better" and you can absolutely see patterns of play and intent, but players just getting used to the system. But he seems to be another manager fixated on having to start Bruno every game. And options are few and far between but sticking with dalot at lwb is a constant error
 
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