Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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Yeah, ridiculous. You'll never see Manchester United bringing promising youth players into the first team.
Feck off, the players and the FANS have to adapt.
Nonsense suggesting Amorim should change anything to do with the system.
To the tune of however much money has been spent, if these players can't adapt to a new system then get rid. Enough pandering and making excuses for them.
To the tune of however much money has been spent, if these players can't adapt to a new system then get rid. Enough pandering and making excuses for them.
This IS implementing the style of play. It’s the first step.
This really, it giving us good control of the ball. Now we need to know how to use it.
It doesn't even feel like pandering to players, more to impatient fans. Which would be even more ridiculous
He could do that and six months down the line players will still not be used to the formation he wants us to implement long term, so either replace all/most of the squad or we'll go into next season with the very same premise that you are proposing above (need to play a different formation than the preferred one because we still don't have XI that is used to 343). Pointless and we'd just be going in circles.
It was always going to be a bit of a difficult time.
Amorin has a very unique style of play and identity to his formation.
There was going to be elements of good, bad and unpredictability.
I'm not surprised by anything from his first few games.
I'm a little surprised we haven't seen that much of a big change in players performances though.
We've seen Diallo be very very good, Mazroui has been good, Onana has been very good of late, Ugarte is getting better with each game. The rest are more or less either performing as they were before or still being underwhelming and ridden with individual error's.
Garnacho is a big worry, he just isn't making an impact in the ten role at all. Just looks lost.
Rashford is being Rashford - just doesn't look interested and workrate is just not there
Dalot is a major let down in this system, he's been so poor on the left. A major issue
There's so much more to come and Amorin must be desperate for a transfer window - he's working with a pretty limited bunch.
I'd love to see Dalot/Fernandes/Rashford and Garnacho have a long spell out of the starting 11. We know what they do - give some others a run in the team. I've sorta lost hope that Garnacho has the footballing IQ to play a central role - he's a natural winger. Get it and run. Not suited to Amorin's 10 role without significant improvement, which he is not showing at all
Amorin has a very unique style of play and identity to his formation.
There was going to be elements of good, bad and unpredictability.
I'm not surprised by anything from his first few games.
I'm a little surprised we haven't seen that much of a big change in players performances though.
We've seen Diallo be very very good, Mazroui has been good, Onana has been very good of late, Ugarte is getting better with each game. The rest are more or less either performing as they were before or still being underwhelming and ridden with individual error's.
Garnacho is a big worry, he just isn't making an impact in the ten role at all. Just looks lost.
Rashford is being Rashford - just doesn't look interested and workrate is just not there
Dalot is a major let down in this system, he's been so poor on the left. A major issue
There's so much more to come and Amorin must be desperate for a transfer window - he's working with a pretty limited bunch.
I'd love to see Dalot/Fernandes/Rashford and Garnacho have a long spell out of the starting 11. We know what they do - give some others a run in the team. I've sorta lost hope that Garnacho has the footballing IQ to play a central role - he's a natural winger. Get it and run. Not suited to Amorin's 10 role without significant improvement, which he is not showing at all
Yep, Amorim has said how losing possession cheaply is something we have done too often and we need to eradicate. He's also acknowledged that the players are carrying out his instructions but probably being overly careful and we need to introduce some more risk in our passing. If we're playing like this come the end of the season, it's an issue but Amorim has openly recognised the previous issue and recognised there is work to be done to get us playing how he wants .
Unfortunately the first 8 to 10 games for Amorim will be like preseason where we’ll see lots of rotation before he settle on a starting 11. The decision to keep ten Hag was disastrous in hindsight and ashworth has rightly paid for it.
He wasn't at the club when the decision was taken
It's pointless to control possession at our own half by walking slowly and passing around between the 3 CBs and GK. The opponent weren't really pressing us. What's there to learn and progress?
This is definitely not Amorim style of play. I think this problem have been there for so long under ETH. That's why I think Amorim should stop this asap and play more forward passes with urgency.
He has actually said that's what he wants to see more of, but there's a hesitancy in the players to do that. It's why he's toyed with playing Bruno deeper in midfield, as he will pass forward at every opportunity, for better or for worse.
Needs to sell Rashford and the standards he sets for others need to leave the club.
No thanks. This season is already chalked, we should 100% be using this as an extended pre-season and an opportunity to assess who's going to be good enough and who isn't ready for the summer window.
That isn't to say we should accept losing games, Ruben should be able to coach the team to better results as they adapt little by little to his tactical plan.
To abandon it for a few superficial extra wins which in the grand scheme of things would be worth nothing to us would be the ultimate lunacy.
I think we’re all in agreement and the manager has said we need to take better care of the ball.
This is what it looks like.
I genuinely think our fans hate possession football generally, whenever I go to games and we have long spells of possession I always hear people around me getting frustrated (when it’s actually just sensible to have the ball for periods to reserve energy and move the opposition around). Pep would have been disliked for sure if we had him.
Not technically but I think he was pruning the hydrangeas when he gave the go ahead.
No he doesn’t. He already said at the start that he’s not going to change just to win because we would be in the same situation with the same problems one year later. He is trying to really change things and built something with his principles. This will take time. But we tried the other way, go back to what they know just to win occasionally, didn’t work in the long run either.
Fair enough. Hopefully, the players could progress to next phase of possession football with more forward passes soon.
The formation chat is massively overblown.
Most teams in the league use a variation of 3-2-5 when they have the ball, which is just another way of configuring 3-4-3. 3-2-5 is just what happens when the wide defenders push up to receive the ball.
There are different ways of achieving this shape. For example, Liverpool use their full backs super aggressively. Whereas Pep and his imitators tend to have a full back invert into midfield and push a centre midfielder into the channel. However, most players are used to playing some variant of 3-4-3 when their team has the ball.
The main change Amorim has made has been on the instructions. His approach relies on the wing backs to get into space, which requires the inside forwards to stay in the channel. Our players are much more comfortable doing things the other way, which we saw in the second half against Bodo where Dalot inverted allowing Garnacho to do what he prefers: Isolate a fullback wide.
However, Amorim is not asking the players to do something so fundamentally alien that they should struggle with it. His defensive shape switches between 3-4-3 and 4-4-2, neither of which should be that hard to compute either.
We did not lose at the weekend because of the formation. We lost because at the start of the second half we had, what can only be described as an inexplicable collapse where Onana sat down in front of a straight shot and Licha failed to even move towards a floating ball that went in at the far post.
Where Amorim can take some criticism is that his subs did not positively impact the team. However, the squad we have should be able to execute his tactics. Broadly speaking it has shown the ability to do so. Its just it melts like butter the second the heat is on. That is something he has to try and figure out how to solve long term.
I really hope this never happens.
mate....the system means feck all if the players don't have the desire and work rate to run and do their job
4231...343 is almost the exact same system in possession with a slight alteration defensively
the issue, as pointed out by several pundits, is the sheer lack of running and hard labor these players don't put in. United aren't even in the top 12 for distance covered per match
Do you insinuate that the 4231 did work with this bunch of players? It was worse.
Postage.
It's like you haven't paid attention to a single word he's said in his interviews!
He said that if he delayed training and playing with the system one year down the line, you'd end up where we are now, only you'd have wasted a year. Better to train players and play in a system so that by this time next year the squad is 100% familiar with it.
Unless, of course, you believe he's wrong?
Nope. I was disagreeing with the post I was responding to.
Agreed. We were not happy with basketball football last season so instead a possession approach is being favoured and fans not happy with that either.
You can see the style... to pull the opposition to a point where there is a gap created for us to punch the ball in behind the line.
Like the Hojlund goal, is what Amorim wants to do.. pull the team about and 2 passes we are in.
However; we do need to move the ball quicker to pull players out of position more, this will come.
We see us keeping the ball much better than we did under Ten Hag, we have alot more control without being threatening.
Not when the team is in the sht and the worst state it has been
Personally I'd look to sign a LWB in January, assuming we don't have much funds.
Then completely gut our forward options in the Summer. But be ruthless. We need to be ruthless.
Then completely gut our forward options in the Summer. But be ruthless. We need to be ruthless.
It was worse because beyond being a formation there was nothing else to it but chaos when ETH was using it. Ole at least had something when he tried, as did LVG and Mourinho with their teams. We can clearly see what Ruben wants to do and it's worked in some games, not in others. I expect as the schedule becomes less tight we'll see an improvement as there will be more time to train.
We hear this every year, but it's easier said than done. How do you propose to shift players on massive wages to teams who can't or refuse to afford them?
Agree, him and Antony and more that don`t fit Amorims style of play.
Imagine swapping out Rashford with Gyøkeres!
Someone would buy Rashford. I fail to accept we'd be stuck with him. The only forward we'd struggle to move on is Antony. Hojlund and Zirkzee are young enough that they'd still attract suitors if we decided to sell. We might not get loads of money for them but we'd be able to get rid of needed.
And who would pay Rashford's wages and why would he leave all that money behind? We've had to partially pay Sancho for two seasons now.
He might relish the chance of moving abroad to Italy or Spain. We will obviously take a financial hit, but it's better that keeping him. This notion that they're unsellable is daft. I hope we're more savvy moving forward with our wage structure and not dish out huge contracts to ordinary players.
I'll remain positive that the club are trying to be proactive and change things up.
Yep! It’s early days and I know results haven’t come on yet but the stats aren’t looking completely terrible (personally I think we have average attackers and that’s the big problem).
We will get better at moving the ball forward, appreciate it can be frustrating watching us go left and right. But that is part of controlling the game and avoiding the exhausting basketball we’ve been watching.
I think there are little things you can tweak in your tactics to help the team out with the players he has at his disposal. Like how ETH wanted his midfielders to set up receiving the ball deep when he first came to United and we kept getting hammered for it. He had to shift away from that because he didn't have that FDJ like player to beat the press with our less mobile midfielders. I agree though, Amorim needs to stick to his way and phase out players who cant adapt/bring in new players that are better suited to his style and also more technically gifted and versatile so that in the event it doesn't work out we have less square pegs in round holes.
I know we say we have average forwards but alot of teams in the PL dont have the best forwards and are still a threat.
As Amorim said in his first press conference, its decision making with our players, something that does not need to be coached.
Our forwards have the worst decision making, they are all looking to enhance their own reputation over the team. Once we get players playing for the team, we will improve drastically.
Oh yeah, not to mention Dalot randomly launching the ball into the stands too.