If there’s any season to go through rebuild, rotate and test different players in different positions it’s this year. Our most straightforward path to CL leads through EL anyway as top 4/5 will be tough, and nobody is expecting Amorim to fix all the damage years of mismanagement and ten Hag have inflicted on this team and club. He basically has a free pass this year, he won’t get sacked regardless of results so he may as well try to implement the style he wants us to play in the long run and not care whether we finish 7th or 12th.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
It is going to be a bumpy road and the manager also has said the same. We have played 5 games and one thing I see is emphasis to hold the ball and that is there to be seen. We have some players who are not only inconsistent but make brainless decisions. There are things no manager can teach.
Have to say not sacking eth in the summer is proving to be a stupid decision with each passing day.
Have to say not sacking eth in the summer is proving to be a stupid decision with each passing day.
I wouldn't be against him starting some of the more talented youth players now. Maybe give fletcher, Ibragimov and obi Martin a few minutes, see if they're up for it?
Well, it will be interesting to see how long he persists with Dalot as LWB? This must be a priority signing in January, or he might as well switch to 4231 which he won't do.
I just think we need games under players belts. Need to build some familiarity and partnerships of which there's basically none in our squad. We need less churn at this point.
Theres a couple of obvious transfer needs but i'd try and buy less and build with whats here.
Theres a couple of obvious transfer needs but i'd try and buy less and build with whats here.
There is a serious lack of quality and depth in the forward positions, we have two ageing midfielders and until recently no fit left back.
Also, the timing of Ashworth sacking, tells me that, we will try and sign players in January. Sacking had to happen before the transfer window.
Ashworth was not for Amorim, so getting his kind players would have been hard.
The club is moving in the right. It's abit foggy now, but everything will make sense in few months time.
It was always going to get a little worse before it got better.
Obviously our squad is average. They're not even good or motivated enough to provide a new manager a bounce. We're looking at Rangnick form at the moment and nothing points to it getting any better. I said when we hired Ruben that we'll need a literal wizard to get more then half of this squad going without months and months of work, and that's only a particular few footballers who aren't either finished or not good enough. Majority are in that category.
I'm usually not one to say we should dump the cups but with our current situation, we would be far better off with extra training days than cup games. Then again, it could all end naturally in the coming weeks.
I said this is the best we can do right now, my point was similar to yours, hardly any of these players fit Amorim’s profile. The fact that Ashworth and Berrada/Wilcox couldn’t agree on whether they wanted to play 433 or 3421 tells you everything about of the state of our club right now.
I fully understand how Amorim wants to play he has triangular partnerships that rotate all over the team, as one player moves up through the lines, the player at the base of the triangle looks for passing options further up and the ball is progressed through the thirds and yes I completely agree that Harry Maguire because of his passing would be a much better option right now at CCB, he probably fits the system better than nearly any player we have. Mazraoui is a perfect RCB but so to is Lenny Yoro until he matures to play as the pivot CB. It’s a shame because if Luke Shaw could stay fit, he would be perfect as a LCB in Amorim’s system.
Ruben Amorim is a brave choice as head coach but his poetic words won’t last very long if he’s got 9 points from his first 9 PL games, SJR is ruthless and impatient!
Especially if a certain Leicester Manager has 15 or16 points from the same number games, RVN is currently unbeaten in 4 PL games and would have been the smart move to keep him at old Trafford until January at least or keep him to the summer so we could then Appoint Amorim, back him in the summer transfer window with 5 or 6 new players that suit his system and allow him a full pre season, then drill his formation into the players because it’s such a radical system change and needs time to adapt.
We’ve got no cash apparently to spend, the players don’t fit Amorim’s profile, then why did we pay £12m to sack ETH, £11m to buy out Amorim, £3m to get Dan Ashworth?
INEOS currently are running the club like an administrator that’s bought a company out of bankruptcy, very little expertise in the actual field of business but they will have lots of directors and board meetings to find out what most of us said 6 months ago,
“Too many Cooks in the Kitchen spoil the broth!”
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, 90% of fans knew we needed to sack ETH, we didn’t so we wasted 1/4 of the season and now expect Amorim to radically change players who are used to 4231 or 433 I to a wining high intensity 3421 system. We will lose at least 15 to 16. PL games this season, which is more than last season and it won’t be ETH or Ruben Amorim’s fault, and it certainly won’t be RVN fault, no the fault will lye firmly with SJR and INEOS who will continue to fail in football, just like they’ve done with Nice!
Mark my words SJR has form for not being patient, he’s ruthless if Amorim has not found a solution to a 3421 with the players available and United are 10th to 14th in February/March 2025 with 30 points from 25-26 games, he’ll be sacked or under unbelievable pressure, that will also extend to Berrada and Wilcox!
Sacking Dan Ashworth was just the first of many in the next 12 months if the team doesn’t get it right on the pitch.
SJR won’t be looking to put more money of his into the club without some form of progress being shown.
There's a reason why we're doing so much rotation though, he's already alluded to this, it needs to be done right now, so we as fans will just have to put up with it. Short term pain for long term gain and all that. It won't last forever, but as others have said it's basically a pre season again.
There’s a maximum of 4 games remaining in the League Cup (which could also secure us European football next year if we were to win it), will probably get knocked out of FA Cup by Arsenal in the very first round we are in so it’s essentially just Europa League, and we must treat it seriously as that’s our most realistic pathway to CL.
The period between conceding the first goal and scoring our first goal was some of the best football we've played in years. It wasn't just individuals playing very well (which is what a lot of our better results were under previous managers), but the system itself was looking great with Forest having all kinds of problems dealing with the movement and passing. Our players were actually finding space, we were moving the ball around well and had quite a bit of short intricate passing. The kind of things we haven't seen very often for the last decade. The three at the back perhaps played a little too safe, but the general play was really good.
Now, that period only lasted about 15 minutes and we took our foot off the pedal after our first goal with things slowly getting worse as the game wore on. But I would say that what we saw in that short period is what Amorim is expecting for 90 minutes eventually. It will take time (especially as we can barely train due to how many games we're playing), but hopefully it slowly becomes more and more frequent.
Now, that period only lasted about 15 minutes and we took our foot off the pedal after our first goal with things slowly getting worse as the game wore on. But I would say that what we saw in that short period is what Amorim is expecting for 90 minutes eventually. It will take time (especially as we can barely train due to how many games we're playing), but hopefully it slowly becomes more and more frequent.
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This is the stupidest idea ever. All it will do will drop us further in sht and put so much pressure on the youth players. Look at our youngsters in the first team and see how they are struggling and how much pressure they are under. We need to do the opposite. Play more senior players and protect the youngsters and give them time to grow
Good post, the goal itself was really good too! Just a little shift in midfield and we broke through.
TBH I may have made that not knowing the news
If only that was true.
No Man United manager will ever get a free pass! not on social media, not by journalists, and not by football panels. Most have already criticised Amorim and he has only been here a few weeks.
Only this weekend we had G.Nev complaining Amorim is making too many changes and how he should/shouldn't be managing the players. It's ridiculous but that's the world we live in.
Yeah, this is hard to stomach, as we all want to win and games like the weekend are so horrible - but we need to see this season as the rebuild season. No excuses from day 1 of next season. All that said its important we see a gradual improvement week on week, otherwise theres no reason to think we're building towards anything.
I said this myself. Surely last 10-15 mins if we are winning
If I were Amorim, I wouldnt have taken the job until the Summer unless I was assured I wouldn’t be accountable for results outside of relegation. If the deal was “come in and turn this season around” it would be a “no” from me.
I think that would be the wrong approach for United anyway. They need a ruthless evaluation and clean out period. And that evaluation should take into consideration how much the player costs against the cap number (sorry, PSR).
I like Vivell. He wasn’t what Chelsea thought he would be in terms of being a guide in the multi club process, and we already had people in position that do what he does for United,so we didn’t have a fit here. But he’s good. Barrada pairs well with someone from the RB system I think. Amorim had already been vetted for a fit at City … so I have to believe the alignment of philosophy of that group will be pretty good.
Now, I think you need one more person. Not necessarily a DOF.
I think that would be the wrong approach for United anyway. They need a ruthless evaluation and clean out period. And that evaluation should take into consideration how much the player costs against the cap number (sorry, PSR).
I like Vivell. He wasn’t what Chelsea thought he would be in terms of being a guide in the multi club process, and we already had people in position that do what he does for United,so we didn’t have a fit here. But he’s good. Barrada pairs well with someone from the RB system I think. Amorim had already been vetted for a fit at City … so I have to believe the alignment of philosophy of that group will be pretty good.
Now, I think you need one more person. Not necessarily a DOF.
I get a feeling that he is not entirely convinced by the quality of youth players at the club. I have heard him mention it a couple of times in his interviews that we need to bring the right quality of youth players in from them to transition into the first team.
I could have misunderstood but that's what I got when I heard him mention it.
We need to stop keeping the ball at the back far too long. Every damn game we have the 3 CBs and GK holding the ball while slowly walking forwards and then endlessly passing sideways/backwards. What the point of this?
We need to increase our intensity, speed and urgency to attack the opponent in the dangerous area. Not possession and hold up safe play at our own area. It was so annoying. We do this even when we were behind.
Meanwhile, Forest kept putting the ball into our box quickly with simple passes and won the game scoring 3 goals with approx 30% possession.
We need to increase our intensity, speed and urgency to attack the opponent in the dangerous area. Not possession and hold up safe play at our own area. It was so annoying. We do this even when we were behind.
Meanwhile, Forest kept putting the ball into our box quickly with simple passes and won the game scoring 3 goals with approx 30% possession.
Managers at Man Utd tend to get a lot more time / authority / patience from owners and fans than any other big club in Europe. He's in a very good place if he needs time.
Media I don't think he needs to be particularly worried about. As long as fans and club governors don't buy into their narrative (and they won't), it does not really matter. And even in media there seems to be acceptance that it will take a long time for United to get back to the top.
He should just treat the league for the remainder of the season as an avenue to firstly, understand the league and what things work and don't work, and secondly, to implement his style with the necessary tweaks required. Obviously, not to the extent of relegation, but, come day 1 of next season, his style should be ready to go.
However, full focus should be on the cup competitions with the Europa League being be the priority. The squad is more of a cup team anyway so should suit them.
However, full focus should be on the cup competitions with the Europa League being be the priority. The squad is more of a cup team anyway so should suit them.
Just assess current players, see if they are going to have a role in the new team / formation. Replace the ones that won't be able to demonstrate that they can contribute, fill the gaps with players more suitable for the system and kick on next year.
It would have definitely been more convenient for all of that to have happened last Summer, and for us to sign players more suitable to Amorim's system but that ship has sailed.
It doesn't even matter whether we finish 9th or 14th. Just use this season to lay foundations.
Exactly this! Its so infuriating and for the opposition, easy to defend! The few times we have looked threatening is when the team is pushed higher up the pitch and the ball is with our attacking players.
The no 10s position and LWB is where it is all failing imo, Bruno should be further forward, and ideally we would want a better partner to Ugarte (a younger Eriksen would be perfect) who can take the ball and play through the lines.
I had hoped Zirkzee would be a great SS to Hojlund in that 10 role but I'm not seeing anything that suggests we have the right cogs in the Midfield to get things going, well that coupled with Dalot at LWB it hasn't been good so far.
Totally agreed, mate. People are too attached to the league for some reason. We ain't achieving shit in the league this season so better to treat it as an extended pre-season.
He’s spoken about this numerous times already. He wants the team to not lose the ball as easily as before. Because this is all new to them, it takes them longer to figure out the right pass/placement in order to move more quickly. It will take time but he’s not instructing them to aimlessly pass it around the back. I’d be getting concerned if this was still happening at the end of the season.
Amorim himself said that this was what he suggested, to take over next summer, but SJ told him "now or never".
I believe a lot of our issues with progression come from the fact that none of our midfielders are comfortable with taking the ball from the CB's and making line breaking passes/progressing play. Eriksen can to some extent, but his legs are gone. Ugarte, Casemiro, Mainoo...none of them are good at it.
Look at how Lavia played for Chelsea yesterday, that's the level of comfort, our #6 needs to have on the ball.
Look at how Lavia played for Chelsea yesterday, that's the level of comfort, our #6 needs to have on the ball.
What's the point of the GK and 3 CBs walking slowly with the ball and then come to a complete stop for a few seconds before endlessly backpass or sideway pass. They will learn nothing from this.
As Amorim said, we need to start implement the style of play now. This has to stop. They need to start to try to make more forward passes, taking risks and attack the dangerous areas. They will only learn by trying and not cowardly passing endlessly at our own areas.
Amorim has to change the formation to suit the players. This 343 cant go on.
Has to be 4231 until he gets his own players. He has to adapt.
Has to be 4231 until he gets his own players. He has to adapt.
I would absolutely love to hear what he really thinks about each of our players after a couple of weeks up close and personal with them.
”It is hard for the players in three days to try to cope with everything, but we have two ways: we forget about the new idea - and I think that's why I was brought here in the middle of the season - and we try to cope with what they are used to doing. And next year, at the same stage, we will be here with the same problems. Amorim.
Because 4-2-3-1 has been such a smashing success for us recently
Not going to happen bud
The point of this is that we controlled possession and scored our first goal from patient build up. You have to keep doing it, and improve at it game by game. Eventually it should speed up, but we also need better players for some of these roles.
Forest scored 3 goals, from 3 shots on target, with an xG of 0.69. Scoring goals is obviously the most important thing, but what this tells you is that we didn't lose because of the tactics, but of individual errors leading to goals when normally a team shouldn't score.
Would you rather we went back to letting teams dominate possession and getting 20+ shots on goal every match? Because that's a more sure fire way of regularly conceding 3 goals all the time.
Yeah, the last 11 years or so, playing 4231 have been stellar.