Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[NZT-One]

??? What are you talking about? “Explaining away” isn’t a literal “you’re buying a ticket and putting the stats on a bus and sending them to a different city so they no longer matter”. It’s a turn of phrase to highlight that you’re contextualising the stats - I said as much in that sentence.

Mate you are worse than me! Whatever you mean with contextualising the stats, all I did was telling you that my personal opinion is that they don't mean that we were the better team. I seriously don't know why that is difficult to understand. If you wouldn't have acted as if opinion is evident, I couldn't care less about your eyetest. Just as much as you can about mine.

The statement made was “scoreline aside”. You do realise that, right? That qualifier is there for a reason. You seemingly just waffled throughout this exchange despite misunderstanding a lot of simple things - see above.

I think, it is rather you, who intentionally misunderstand the points I am trying to make. I explicitly don't know why, as I pointed out multiple times, you can have any opinion you want. I understood your posts very well. You were the one trying to sell your opinion as evident. That was all I reacted to. It was a mistake, I get it. Apparently you interpreted that as something personal. Be assured, it wasn't.

I made a particular statement corroborated by almost every possible in-game metric, why wouldn’t I point out said metrics?

I don't know. The ones you pointed out all implied we had better numbers, but, and this is the 3rd time I write this, doesn't mean we had to be the better team.

Again, what I said isn’t contingent on xG alone - and United’s was higher anyway.

Do you even read my posts?

“Possession doesn’t mean feck all”, yeah well, possession didn’t happen in a vacuum - if United rocks up anywhere and cedes/doesn’t have control of majority of the game - and the manager is on record post-match saying “we held on to the end as best as we could”, I’d be saying the same about United.

???

Mate, lets leave it at that. I stepped on a landmine apparently. Again, in the most basic words I am able to phrase it in: You win football matches when you have scored more times than your opponent when the match time is done. So a team does well when it scores well and prevents the opponent to score. As football is a lowscoring sport, it make sense to use chance creation as alternative metric to evaluate a performance. A team performs well when it creates high probability chances and prevents the opponent from doing the same. Possession, shots on goal, field tilt, yellow cards, tackles, passes, corners - thats all stuff that happens along the way and feeds into whether you can or can not manage your own chances and the ones from your opponent. In yesterdays game, xG indicates, that we created more chances than the opponent. So the assumption we might have been the better team is understandable but weak, because when you look at it, most of our xG originates from one fecking double chance in the 18th minute. After that, we didn't create anything of note, more or less the same as NFO. But they score twice while we score only once. You can't tell me, that this rational is impossible to understand for you. You don't have to agree to it, thats fine, but acting as if "everything indicates my eyetest is correct and we were the better team and there is no question about it" (hence the evident) does my head in.

 

[TsuWave]

- insert long post here -

Scoreline aside - as corroborated by almost every possible in game metric, including but not solely xG, and alluded to by Forest's manager's own words - United was the better team yesterday despite Forest winning. All possible within the sport of football

 

[dutchred]

Feel Sorry for him. Must be wondering what's going on with the Ashworth situation, especially with January window coming up

 

[El Zoido]

Feel Sorry for him. Must be wondering what's going on with the Ashworth situation, especially with January window coming up

We’ll get someone who can better support his vision for the team. It’ll probably work out a lot better for him long term.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Feel Sorry for him. Must be wondering what's going on with the Ashworth situation, especially with January window coming up

We're broke, so I don't think the January window is particularly relevant in this case

 

[Tony247]

Finally after a month he has got a true break where no one is interested in him and his team at this moment. Can focus on his job now.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

The solution to all of our problems is 4-4-2. The club was destined to play that way.

 

[Bobby_2024]

Feel Sorry for him. Must be wondering what's going on with the Ashworth situation, especially with January window coming up

I think this would benefit Ruben in long run, Owners sacked the DOF who opposed Ruben's appointment sends a message to the Players so they dont dare to mess with the manager is a good thing?

 

[bosnian_red]

Feel Sorry for him. Must be wondering what's going on with the Ashworth situation, especially with January window coming up

He's probably delighted that we sacked the DoF who doesn't believe in Amorim's vision and will target a DoF who is in line with it. The DoF's job is to support the manager and club by getting the players that the manager needs most. Managers don't always see what exactly they themselves need.

 

[Woodzy]

Feel Sorry for him. Must be wondering what's going on with the Ashworth situation, especially with January window coming up

I doubt he cares. He’s already spoken about how he and the hierarchy all share the same vision, maybe Ashworth was an exception to that and just another reason why he’s left.

 

[Orion.]

The solution to all of our problems is 4-4-2. The club was destined to play that way.

Hiring a coach with a very niche system after backing ETH so heavily in the past few years was naive.

At this point Moyes or Allegri would probably have been the ideal candidate to come in and take the squad back to basics and make it hard to beat.

 

[RDCR07]

Hiring a coach with a very niche system after backing ETH so heavily in the past few years was naive.

At this point Moyes or Allegri would probably have been the ideal candidate to come in and take the squad back to basics and make it hard to beat.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Hiring a coach with a very niche system after backing ETH so heavily in the past few years was naive.

At this point Moyes or Allegri would probably have been the ideal candidate to come in and take the squad back to basics and make it hard to beat.

We’ve already got a new boardroom that have not made the best of starts but thank feck you aren’t on it.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

I think he needs to stick with the system and just determine the players who can play in it. Make them the mainstays and just use the other cannon fodder players to fill gaps when needed. Can genuinely see players Garnacho leaving the club at this point, he just does not fit into the system at all.

Bring in a specialist left wing back/left back in January to cover that massive capability gap we have down the left flank, Amad can play on the right. There's only about 5 players who I think have the quality to play at the very top and to be honest I'm not fully sure on those either.

 

[Judas]

Hiring a coach with a very niche system after backing ETH so heavily in the past few years was naive.

At this point Moyes or Allegri would probably have been the ideal candidate to come in and take the squad back to basics and make it hard to beat.

Christ what a depressing outlook to have.

 

[JPRouve]

Christ what a depressing outlook to have.

Some fans love the doom and gloom. We weren't bad yesterday (granted I somehow missed two goals from Forrest) but we have small weaknesses that can't be fixed quickly, our attackers seem to mainly make random passes/crosses that have no link to their target, for example why Garnacho loves to long or high crosses instead of targetting the feet of his teammates? An the other thing is that our back 3 and our CMs are too timid with the ball, they seem afraid to make passes in tight spaces which leadS to the team consistently having to breakdown an opposition that regained its defensive shape.

Now the positive is that Amorim has identified it, now the question is how to fix it? A mixture of coaching, increased confidence and bringing new players would be my guess but I'm not really saying much.

 

[Fts 74]

I'm liking what I've seen so far, results aside, we've been much better than what we've seen over the last 18 months of EtH, it actually looks like we're doing some work on the training ground.

Hopefully in the league at least, injuries permitting, we'll begin to see a more settled 11, 5 games in I'm sure he's realising who is more suited to how he wants to play.Patience is obviously required though, it's gonna be bumpy until he can get the players he wants.

 

[Tony247]

Last loss was not on him. If players throw total brainfart and concede not one but two fecking stupid goals then nothing a manager can do.

 

[Canucantona20]

Last loss was not on him. If players throw total brainfart and concede not one but two fecking stupid goals then nothing a manager can do.

This happened a lot with ten hag too

 

[RuudTom83]

The clubs need’s a bit of stability and consistency. Anyone getting on Amorim’s back after a few weeks are also a part of the problem!

Against Forrest the team didn't create much compared to two previous. Simple. But the EL match midweek should be a good change to get a few more goals and a win.

This season is going to be a tough ride but there is not much that can be done apart from the January window.

 

[Still ill]

Time for a settled 11.

 

[crossy1686]

Time for a settled 11.

Was thinking this today also, at least a settled back line, you can’t keep swapping and changing the CB’s every week, you need some consistency back there.

 

[siw2007]

Obviously not happy with his results so far but when watching the team, there is a clear organisation and idea on how to play. The players are not tuned in enough yet, which is understandable as there is limited training time and the coach needs the chance to train the players while others just need to go.

What I do want him to do in the 2nd half of the season is once he has a better idea on which players he trusts and which ones he doesn’t, that he starts to bring in a few of the younger players into the first team fold. Maybe an Amass for the left hand side who might give us better balance than Dalot, Fletcher for midfield or Kukonki who could fill the void that Shaw is leaving behind with his injuries.

 

[DSG]

Despite some bad results, I’m still optimistic. In my mind, performances are more important than results. Let’s reduce the hand-wringing and give him some time. I refuse to believe that every player is garbage.

 

[Highfather_24]

All the "time for a settled 11" folks are forgetting that ETH did that, and in this kind of schedule, that's what leads to burnout and injuries. Just not realistic.

 

[soapythecat]

We gifted the game to Forest through individual errors, otherwise we win that game comfortably. You can see improvements in every game under Amorin, but it's going to take time. He's playing out his pre-season in the league so it's going to be rocky. I think we have enough to finish in the top 6, I really do, but he needs to get harsher on poor performers. I like his in game management and he seems like a really likeable guy - if players can't be motivated to play his way, then I really do fear for them as footballers in general, let alone United players.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Some fans love the doom and gloom. We weren't bad yesterday (granted I somehow missed two goals from Forrest) but we have small weaknesses that can't be fixed quickly, our attackers seem to mainly make random passes/crosses that have no link to their target, for example why Garnacho loves to long or high crosses instead of targetting the feet of his teammates? An the other thing is that our back 3 and our CMs are too timid with the ball, they seem afraid to make passes in tight spaces which leadS to the team consistently having to breakdown an opposition that regained its defensive shape.

Now the positive is that Amorim has identified it, now the question is how to fix it? A mixture of coaching, increased confidence and bringing new players would be my guess but I'm not really saying much.

We can only judge Amorim after he has made a couple of signings. Right now his impact has been limited, but he is not helped by players giving goals away for fun. Dalot at LWB is clearly not working, will he just persist or change something? His subs are not having much of an impact either. Obviously the squad is not good enough.

 

[distant_red]

We gifted the game to Forest through individual errors, otherwise we win that game comfortably. You can see improvements in every game under Amorin, but it's going to take time. He's playing out his pre-season in the league so it's going to be rocky. I think we have enough to finish in the top 6, I really do, but he needs to get harsher on poor performers. I like his in game management and he seems like a really likeable guy - if players can't be motivated to play his way, then I really do fear for them as footballers in general, let alone United players.

I was watching someone talking about this, how it’s effectively a pre-season period atm, with all the heavy rotations from game to game. That in itself will lead to inconsistency but has to be done. I just wonder how many more games this will happen for before it becomes more settled. Until then, as you said, hold onto the side of the boat as the waves may rise a bit.

 

[simonhch]

Bad results are going to come thick and fast. It’s best to accept that. The easy approach was to stick with a similar system and then make the change in the summer, but as Amorim points out, by implementing the system now, we will be much better off next season. In the short term, there will be a lot of pain and a lot of hiccups, but in the medium to long term, this is the right approach. I am in no way going to let short term results either inform my judgement of Amorim, nor rock by belief in the transformation underway. We just have to ride this season out. Not write it off, but be realistic about what is happening right now.

In the summer it is crucial we bring in players that fit the system. And I don’t mean overhaul the squad completely, but I do mean make ruthless decisions and sanction sales of high value players who don’t fit, and reinvestment in players who do. I fully expecting to see someone like Inacio come in. Someone crucial to his success at Sporting and fundamental to how his teams build play from the back. You can retrain other players to do similar things, but it’s an obvious short cut to just bring someone in. On the plus side, Inacio is an excellent defender, and only 23, and would replace an obvious weakness in our side in Martinez. As good as Martinez can be with the ball at his feet, he’s a huge liability in the air, and there is a huge question mark over his one on one defending ability. He’s tenacious as feck when stepping out from the back, but in a three I think he lacks the pace and physical attributes to patrol that left hand side. A back three of Inacio, De Ligt and Yoro, on paper at least, are all excellent on the ball, plenty of recovery pace, and aerial presence.

We are going to need another LWB, that’s also obvious. We need two central midfielders to replace Casemiro and Eriksen, who should both be outbound, and be left with Ugarte, Mainoo, another starting quality CM (Ederson?)? And a young, high potential option. We are also going to need either a new RWB, and move Amad to 10, or a new 10. And finally we need a Center forward. To facilitate all of this, I would expect to see Rashford, potentially Zirkzee, Casemiro, Eriksen, and Antony all leave.

Shaw and Mount both have to be on the chopping block, not due to their quality but due to their persistent injury issues. The issue there is the homegrown quota. Both are high quality homegrown players, but both on big wages, and neither of whom can be reliables upon to be available for extended periods.

With that recalibration done, I think there is a title challenging squad in place. But that’s a lot of work, a lot of changes, and a financial tightrope to walk.

 

[Ish]

Hiring a coach with a very niche system after backing ETH so heavily in the past few years was naive.

At this point Moyes or Allegri would probably have been the ideal candidate to come in and take the squad back to basics and make it hard to beat.

Moyes

 

[utdalltheway]

Amorim needs time but the current squad is not going to help him enough. I wish the clubs we bought from had a good return policy so we could send back Antony, et al and get our money back. As that's not going to happen it's quite depressing to think of how we can do ok in the short term.

 

[El Jefe]

The squad we have doesn't make sense for what he's trying to do but it didn't make sense for Ten Hag's style either. Ruud was the only one that set this batch of players in the way to get maximum returns out of them but all that would get us is short term gains, as we'd get exposed in the long run with that style.

He was under no illusions about how big the task at hand was but I think despite being clued on about us, he'll be particularly shocked about how unathletic and technically limited this group of players are.

It's going to be a hard watch for sometime but in his own words, he said by the end of the season his hope was that we fans would know exactly how we would play and could see the patterns of what we are trying to implement on the pitch. If we can do that, then that would be a success as it would let us know exactly what types of players we need going into the summer.

 

[pratyush_utd]

3 Goals we conceded yesterday was just freak goals. Corner in 1st min, straight shot at GK in first minute of 2nd half and a looping header that could have been cleared easily by 3 players. We didn’t lose yesterday because of system

We have progressed and if you can look past the result, there is some clear improvements with the way we control the ball. Our attacking inefficiency is because we have bought shit attacking players and persisted with players like Rashford and Antony who has not played well for 2 seasons now. That cant be fixed in a month.

Best hope this season is to finish in Europa league spot and blood in good youngster and go for players needed for system next season and move on everyone who isnt required or good enough.

 

[BluesJr]

I understand the rotation thing and I think Neville is an idiot for clearly ignoring Amorim’s reasoning for doing it and just causes needless drama and creates a pressure that doesn’t happen anywhere else and that’s why it’s so difficult to get it right at this club. You get zero leeway with anything. We basically just need to ignore results for the rest of the reason realistically and start paying attention next season.

But… other clubs don’t have to rotate so much do they?

 

[Its all gone Shane Long]

Anyone getting on Amorim’s back after a few weeks are also a part of the problem!

And here in lies the problem, we all want success but it’s the football managers/fifa players who live in there own reality of “we lost a few games, “insert name”out…it’s ridiculous, you can see from the off, we have an actual system that he’s trying to implement, it’s pre-season, lessons to be learned, hard truths to swallow, and short term pain for long term success. I’m happy with that.

 

[Escobar]

At least our goals show purpose and style, which is good

 

[Tomassonl]

Bad results are going to come thick and fast. It’s best to accept that. The easy approach was to stick with a similar system and then make the change in the summer, but as Amorim points out, by implementing the system now, we will be much better off next season. In the short term, there will be a lot of pain and a lot of hiccups, but in the medium to long term, this is the right approach. I am in no way going to let short term results either inform my judgement of Amorim, nor rock by belief in the transformation underway. We just have to ride this season out. Not write it off, but be realistic about what is happening right now.

I have to admit I'm Dutch and have been following this forum since Louis van Gaal was here and Ten Hag after. To me it seems, no coach has been able to to overcome what Sir Alex Ferguson left behind (an old squad). Unless Amorim is planning to keep the majority of the squad next season, implementing his tactics now is near to pointless. I would go for "park the bus and get that one goal more". Ten Hag was not helping the problem, by spending a lot of money on very few players that had not proven themselves at the premier league level and didn't work out.

I think the question here is: How can we create a premier league winning team?

A lot of players will need to be sold and hopefully at a good price, but no one will pay "top dollar" if they know it's a fire sale and in return, for good players that have proven themselves, a lot of money needs to be paid. However, many need to go, to be able to buy a team that can challenge for the league and that are willing to work together, but also willing to do what the coach wants them to.

Either way, I think challenging for the league is faraway, since the period United won the league frequently, there are too many clubs with a lot of oil money that can challenge for the price, but with the budget United has a challenge for at least a top 4, should normally be within reach.

PS. I do hope Man C at some point get the punishment they deserve and get relegated a league or 5.
PSS. Perhaps the wrong bald guy was hired.

 

[roseguy64]

He needs to stop changing the team now and settle with an 11. Could understand at the start he was rotating and trying to find his best 11 but it won’t help keep changing teams. They’ll be no momentum or understanding of players if there playing with different players every game. Need consistency

He's already explained why he rotates the team. It's not gonna change for now.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Amorim is effectively having to do pre-season in the busiest period of the year with this group of players

 

[SparcMac]

He needs to stop changing the team now and settle with an 11. Could understand at the start he was rotating and trying to find his best 11 but it won’t help keep changing teams. They’ll be no momentum or understanding of players if there playing with different players every game. Need consistency

We are having a pre season atm. Getting the tone of the players.