Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Blood Mage said:
Looking at our upcoming fixtures I think pressure is going to build on him quickly. There will be no talk of patience if we get dragged into a relegation scrap. I can see him abandoning his philosophy and reverting to a tactical setup the players are more comfortable with to get some points on the board.
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If he discovers that the majority of them simply can't play his style and will be surplus, then he might as well adapt to them. Then start again when he can get a few more of his players.
What's the point in drilling a way of playing into players that won't be here soon.
 
Judas said:
It is fecking hilarious and embarrassing to see the same hysterical buffoons who complained that Ten Hag abandoned his principles and ideas, screaming to see this fella do the same after a handful of games. Genuinely clueless.
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I don't know how some of these people cope in real life
 
giggs-beckham said:
If he discovers that the majority of them simply can't play his style and will be surplus, then he might as well adapt to them. Then start again when he can get a few more of his players.
What's the point in drilling a way of playing into players that won't be here soon.
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To prepare others who will stay here I suppose.
 
Judas said:
It is fecking hilarious and embarrassing to see the same hysterical buffoons who complained that Ten Hag abandoned his principles and ideas, screaming to see this fella do the same after a handful of games. Genuinely clueless.
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Yes indeed.
What Manchester United needs is a period of stability.
A period for the new chief coach to fully get to grips with his new job.
His new club.
His new players.

None of us know how this is going to pan out.
But come on.
Let's at least give him a chance.

You can not expect to run a football club and a football team based on the outcome of the last match.
 
Mistake to take off Bruno yesterday, think he will realise we are completely dependent on him, for all his faults.
 
giggs-beckham said:
If he discovers that the majority of them simply can't play his style and will be surplus, then he might as well adapt to them. Then start again when he can get a few more of his players.
What's the point in drilling a way of playing into players that won't be here soon.
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Not anymore.

Feck the lot of them, instill the style he wants and let it weed out the shite. If you can't adapt there's the door. It'll take a couple of years, but this is what needs to be done.

ETH's biggest failure was changing his approach after a handful of games, then he ended up scrabbling to try and draw it back whilst still trying to suit the players. It was never going to work.

Same will happen again if Ruben bows to the players and changes his setup, the players will see the weakness and they'll start to question his approach and before we know it we'll be back on to the next guy.
 
Can't imagine he'll be too happy with Ashworth's sacking after he specifically praised him, Berrada and Wilcox a few weeks ago.
 
He needs to be ruthless and drop like
Shady said:
Mistake to take off Bruno yesterday, think he will realise we are completely dependent on him, for all his faults.
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I don't think it was a mistake, Bruno is visible tired. He couldn't take on defenders and was lazy in passing. The problem was the replacement couldn't do anything meaningful.
 
Ten hag should’ve been sacked in the summer and Amorim could’ve had a pre season to work with the players and also bring in his own men. That didn’t happen and now he’s trying to completely transform a team mid season to play the way he wants without all the right players required. As he said there will be a lot of pain before we start seeing the results.
 
Snafu17 said:
Can't imagine he'll be too happy with Ashworth's sacking after he specifically praised him, Berrada and Wilcox a few weeks ago.
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Don't read too much into diplomacy. I doubt Amorim really cares all that much about the suits. He just has to sell the idea that it's happy families as he's the most public spokesman for United.

I imagine the thing he's most unhappy about right now is that we are concededing laughable goals, our resilience remains sketchy, our build up through the thirds is shocking and nobody seems to be able to create except Bruno (who is nursing an ankle injury).
 
RonaldoVII said:
Hope I'm wrong but it would hardly be a surprise if we spend another 300/400 million on trying to make a 3-4-3 system work only to change manager in another 2/3 years and end up with another mismatched squad for someone else to wrestle with
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This is what I'm most worried about.

Also annoying that we have to write an entire season off, because we didnt sack ETH in the summer.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Ten hag should’ve been sacked in the summer and Amorim could’ve had a pre season to work with the players and also bring in his own men. That didn’t happen and now he’s trying to completely transform a team mid season to play the way he wants without all the right players required. As he said there will be a lot of pain before we start seeing the results.
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I’d be open to us being a work in progress this season (and endure the pain), but at the rate we’re crumbling, we are way more closer to a relegation fight than a title/European challenge.
 
I feel for him. Same way I felt for ETH. Club is set up for failure with failure as the culture. This is deep rooted. A malaise.
 
If he's told the club that a lot of these players have no use in his system, I can see why "allegedly" one of the voices backing ETH and the last spend is gone. Maybe the mistakes against forest was the final straw for Amorim to make his statement to Berrada/Ratcliffe? Something about the game/weekend has provoked it now. Could it be Amorim?
 
Despite bad loss yesterday I still feel the signs are promising. It wasn’t like one of those losses we had under ten Hag where we were clearly second best and completely outplayed (and even some of our wins were like that), it came down to a couple of moments of utter incompetence from Onana and Martinez (though I wasn’t happy with the final 20 minutes either and Amorim needs to shoulder some blame for that).

I’m fairly confident we would have gone on to win that game comfortably if it hadn’t been for those two silly mistakes early in the second half, and our performance in the first half was comfortably better than what we showed on a weekly basis last season.
 
I can see what he’s trying to do - it’s just going to take time.

Hopefully he can move Amad into the number 10 role - as I think he’s wasted at RWB - he’s our most dangerous attacker.

I think the middle CB in a back 3 has to be commanding in the air - I wouldn’t be surprised to see Maguire take that spot soon - Push De Ligt to the left sided CB role with Martinez dropping out (he’s been awful for a while now)
 
TsuWave said:
You've tried to explain the stats away - you've tried to contextualise the stats multiple times, which, you're free to do, but ultimately doesn't change them
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With no word have I indicated, that the stats have to go away. I just told you that I think you are overstating their meaning. Weren't you the one asking me to stick to discussion? Why would you then assume, that I want to get something away from your side of the table?
TsuWave said:
I mean, if I make a statement saying "scoreline aside almost every significant underlying metric supports that we were the better team" - and you retort with "the scoreline doesn't support your claim" - what are you inferring then? Especially when I purposely noted the scoreline. This isn't the first nor will it be the last time the final scoreline doesn't reflect nor encapsulate in its totality how a football game was played.
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You're free to see it as a lucky victory for NFO. The scoreline will always be one of multiple indicators, who played less good than the other team. You acknowledged that, me too, I just repeated it to create a list of things that don't support your claim.
TsuWave said:
The statement I made was rooted on evidence - it is corroborated by in-game metrics, after all
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Metrics you decided to give the meaning "means is the better team" to. Genuine question - is it such a challenge to accept, that not everybody shares your opinion on the match? Probably not, right. So why do feel the need to stress those "evidences" so much - especially when I already made the effort to explain twice, which factors undermine the meaning of those stats for the question of "who was the better team"?
TsuWave said:
Yes, if those are reiterated in almost every other in-game metric. Again, from the stat sources I've looked at - Forest legitimately only led in GK saves, goals prevented, clearances, and goal kicks. They scored two of the flukiest goals you're likely to see all month - it happens, it's football. You're, again, contextualising us having better stats, namely xG - but like, "blunder and some good fortune" is legit what gave Forest the win. I mean, Nuno is on record saying "we held on to the end as best as we could". Forest didn't play a good game, and neither did United, but we were better - that however - doesn't always translate to a win, and I've not been shy about our lack of quality with the ball, decision-making and what we did with our final third entries, which again, we dominated. My statement wasn't made solely on/with xG in isolation so your last question and what your surmised from it, s lazy.
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Even if we accept good luck and blunder, I haven't said I would disregard them, the xG happenend IN ONE FECKING SCENE before the 20minute mark. After that, we generated nothing of note. So again the question and I could understand why you would try to dodge it: if we didn't generate notable chances in 77 minutes, how does that play into your claim that we were the better team? Stats always have to be seen in context - shots on target don't mean shit when all of them are low-percentage shots from 25 metres out. Possession means feck all, just look at last years highly celebrated FA Cup final. Field tilt doesn't mean anything if the opponent is fine with you having the ball and preventing you from creating good chances.

At the end of the day, this is a somewhat subjective discussion - if you saw a game, where we were the better team and lost mostly down to lucky opponents, so be it. I think, this is misrepresenting the game but given that your view isn't going to have an effect on the lessons learned for the team, I'll happily accept that.
 
It's very easy to point the blame at new tactics, formations and style. But Utd players have been making inexplicable errors leading to goals for years. This is one thing we can outdo almost every other club in the PL: the bloopers reel runs very long. Players have to take responsibility for that, but despite all their apologies post-match, they don't have the capacity to learn and improve.
 
Does it not feel like we have repeated the same mistake we have made with every manager post fergie, we keep jumping from one extreme style to another, like how we went from moyes style to van gaal's to then mourinho's amd we have done it again by going from ten hag to amorim 3 at the back system and philosophy.

This is why we seem to be the only club that needs to have a complete rebuild every few years and wait 5 years for the manager to get things to click, you don't see this at other clubs.

We are already hearing talk from ineos and amorim that this is basically going to take years to get right again and yet there is countless examples of a club hiring the right manager and turning the teams fortunes around almost overnight like howe did, like emery did and maresca as a few examples.

I know our team is not perfect but there are way too many teams above us with lesser players and assumed lesser managers.
 
Amorim made his bed when he started off by publicly saying he believes in our players. Now he has to deliver using this poor squad otherwise his assessment was terrible.

I mean, you don't have to say the opposite but at least avoid defending/praising them the first thing you do.

We're so rotten I wouldn't mind if every single player left.
 
Hope he lets some of the talented players train to get used to the system and to show the first team players that if they don't perform, they will be replaced.

Shouldn't just chuck in 16 year olds as they will be eaten alive, but they should be involved more and more as a way to change the team slowly.
 
Sarni said:
Despite bad loss yesterday I still feel the signs are promising. It wasn’t like one of those losses we had under ten Hag where we were clearly second best and completely outplayed (and even some of our wins were like that), it came down to a couple of moments of utter incompetence from Onana and Martinez (though I wasn’t happy with the final 20 minutes either and Amorim needs to shoulder some blame for that).

I’m fairly confident we would have gone on to win that game comfortably if it hadn’t been for those two silly mistakes early in the second half, and our performance in the first half was comfortably better than what we showed on a weekly basis last season.
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I felt that we are going to come back and level even after we went 3-1 down yesterday Which was a departure from how I felt when we went a goal or two down under ETH. That's a positive, I guess?

The last 15 mins were a mess and Ruben acknowledged that in his press conference. I think he'd realize Zirkzee and Rashford are not the guys you bring on when we are chasing a game. Rashford has no composure and Zirkzee looks like a lottery winner whenever he has to do anything proactive. Too bad he doesn't have any better options available to him.

I wonder if there are a couple from the youth teams we can promote than can have an instant impact. Although, besides Kukoni I didn't see anyone else from the youth teams training with the first team squad in the last couple of videos put out on MUTV.
 
The players are dumb. Show them route 1 football and they can do it. Anything other and all goes to shit.

Ole was solid because of that, even Soutgate would be ok for 6th, 7th place. So feck them, let them shoot themselves n the foot and find the door.
 
Jacob said:
Amorim made his bed when he started off by publicly saying he believes in our players. Now he has to deliver using this poor squad otherwise his assessment was terrible.

I mean, you don't have to say the opposite but at least avoid defending/praising them the first thing you do.

We're so rotten I wouldn't mind if every single player left.
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He said that he believed in them until they prove him wrong which is basically saying he will make a judgement on them once he has fully accessed the team. No top manager makes decisions based off of assumptions, you make it based off of what you see over a period of time.
 
Insanity said:
I felt that we are going to come back and level even after we went 3-1 down yesterday Which was a departure from how I felt when we went a goal or two down under ETH. That's a positive, I guess?

The last 15 mins were a mess and Ruben acknowledged that in his press conference. I think he'd realize Zirkzee and Rashford are not the guys you bring on when we are chasing a game. Rashford has no composure and Zirkzee looks like a lottery winner whenever he has to do anything proactive. Too bad he doesn't have any better options available to him.

I wonder if there are a couple from the youth teams we can promote than can have an instant impact. Although, besides Kukoni I didn't see anyone else from the youth teams training with the first team squad in the last couple of videos put out on MUTV.
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Yeah, the last 15 minutes were very bad but expecting Amorim to learn from that. When Bruno scored it felt we were going to at least get it to level but we lost all the momentum soon after.

Our losses before were more one sided. Brighton, Bournemouth games at OT last year never at any point felt like we could get anything out of, just purely deflating all the way through. While we are still far from good enough, it feels like there’s more to work with.
 
Shaw's Shank Redemption said:
Does anyone here thinks we look absolutely great?

Considering this was our 3rd or 4th game under the manager - im not expecting results but more that i expect to see a plan of a team shape.

I absolutely love it.

We obviously have weaknesses which should improve over time.

However, one thing im confused about is :

1) Why is Amad playing wingback and not Garnacho? Does Amorim only use wingers as a wing bc on the right? Amad could play further up as a RAM and Garnacho deeper back as a LWB.

Has Amorim ever used an inverted winger as a wing back on the left? I only know amorim used Quenda but only on the right flank once again.

2) Similar issue is why is Rashford playing at RF? Why not play him at LF?

It feels like our whole team is lop sided.

Onana
Yoro - De Ligt - Maguire
Mazroui - Ugarte - Bruno - Garnacho
Amad - Rashford
Hojlund
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How is this any different from his current tactics? Its jut everyone is playing on the opposite side & to me it looks much better and balanced. Even if Rashford shouldnt start, swap him with Bruno or Zirkzee on right and play Mainoo in midfield.


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With Garnacho at LWB you are basically guaranteeing that the opposition will be able to isolate Maguire 1v1 in the left back space pretty much whenever they like - that's a recipe for disaster.

Also with Mazraoui further up you have no above average passers in the last line besides Maguire, who would be extremely easy to press and would have a very difficult time adjusting his body to even get oriented properly to pass to the left. All right footed CBs as well.
 
I thought we played reasonably well for a fair chunk of yesterday's game. Made a terrible start in both halves, the 2nd in particular with some horrendous errors and then lost any real threat going forward when Bruno was taken off. But the signs are there already and you can see what he's trying to do, just needs some time for the players to adapt and for him to understand who's capable of that and who needs replacing.

I don't really get the panic from some at the moment. Of course it's a crap result and we want to win but in the short term there needs to be an acceptance results are possibly not going to be great. And it's better for that to happen part way through a season where it's already been a struggle instead of the start of a new one. Ten Hag had that opportunity, binned it after 2 games, never returned to it and here we are back in this mess because of that. If in 3 months nothing has changed then it becomes a concern, if we start next season similarly then it's a big problem, but for now as Amorim has said we have to suffer a bit.
 
Judas said:
It is fecking hilarious and embarrassing to see the same hysterical buffoons who complained that Ten Hag abandoned his principles and ideas, screaming to see this fella do the same after a handful of games. Genuinely clueless.
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Think there's two sides to that aspect, it was abandoning his philosophy that allowed United to win the domestic cup and finish fourth in his first season.

Changing the tactics due to circumstances wasn't the issue with Erik, it was abandoning any reasonable philosophy when it mattered during and after summer recruitment.

I think it's acceptable if Amorim sticks to what he's doing or changes things, but if he changes things, when the market is open he has to go back to where he is most competent given his managerial experiences and pedigree (his preferred system).

Erik's tenure is a very unique instance whereby United started with a different nuanced approach in each respective season.
 
if it ain’t clear now that it isn’t the manager that is the problem it is the players then some people will never see it, I think it’s more mental issue with these players, obviously some of them are just not good enough, but I think we have bought mentally weak players they seem to crumble under a little bit of pressure or scrutiny and until there is really leaders bought into the group we will always struggle, yesterday was defiantly on the players the amount of errors for the goals was laughable from Bruno to onana, martinez and Dalot being so pathetic in the tackle, the only good thing to come from us not having a manager bounce is Amorim can see these players for what they are and learn who will be the ones firstly good enough and secondly the ones who will not crumble under pressure and roll up there sleeves and put the hard work in.
Still think after a couple of weeks we should see improvement even with some of these limited players if other coaches have gone into lesser teams and made them so much better Amorim shoud should be able to do the same.
 
I believe in this guy. Though he alone can't restore this club to glory and that is the problem. I just hope that we have the correct support above him, as he is a quality coach and communicator.
 
I honestly wouldnt blame him if he resigned and walked away at this point, this club is a complete mess and is likely to only get worse.
 
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