Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Walters_19_MuFc said:
His dip in form has coincided with his shift to playing as a No. 10.

Just look at the tactical tweak Amorim made against Bodo/Glimt, where he instructed Garnacho to stay wide on the touchline while Dalot operated in more central pockets. The immediate impact was undeniable.

Now, I’m not suggesting he’s the long-term solution in that role, and I do believe we still need a proper left wing-back. But, in the meantime, experimenting with him there could be worth considering. There's no harm in trying it until we get the right personnel.
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Nope. Hard disagree. He’s been frustrating all season long. There was one game where he was absolutely class (can’t actually remember which one - it’ll come to me…) but has been not good at all for almost every other match. Despite picking up a decent return of goals.

It’s a slightly weird season from him. Like I said, his return has been decent and if he’d converted a few of the sitters he’s missed it would be better than decent. But his all round game has been so disappointing .

Even his touch looks heavy and clumsy (Hojlund’s goal tonight a good example). Which is a shame because we all know he has fantastic touch on his day. I’m just putting it down to teething pains but the thought of relying on this season’s clumsy touch and wayward passing to beat the opposition press is a recipe for disaster IMO. Never mind expecting him to get all the defensive stuff right.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
The main reason for that was how frequently we started off playing unbelievably badly for the opening 15-20 minutes. It was so weird. Happened again and again and again.
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Exactly. It does my head in seeing it time and time again being brought up, how good our mentality must have been when we came back so often. People must have forgotten those games, where we slept through most of the first halves only to be forced to wake up after halftime to get back to an average level.

Comeback quality should mean that you gave goals away while being average only to up your game to good or very good and then turn the corner. Not so much a quality when you start below par to be forced to get back to neutral on such a regular basis as it happened back then.
 
NZT-One said:
In my personal opinion an eyetest will always be subjective but when you think we were better, I'll accept that.

I think there is quite some room to argue. Who the "better" team is, is dependent on what metrics you think are important. We have twice the xg because of Hojlunds goal was from 5m with an open goal. It goes for 0.8 on understand, which is half of our 1.65 overall. Without that, it is fairly even - especially given that Hojlunds goal did originate from a squandered chance of 0.4. Thats 1.2 from one scene with the biggest chunk down to fortunate luck. The other metrics aren't too convincing in my eyes as well - as I said, when you have a lead, you can afford to stay a little deeper and defend compactly. Of course this will lead to the other team coming closer to your goal. But as long as this doesn't end up in high quality chances for the opponent (which it didn't for us) how can it be an achievement for the attacking side? How is the number of passes and achievement?

But lets agree to disagree on this.
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I’ve read your post twice and I don’t even know what you’re arguing.

“Your assessment of the game will vary based on which metrics you consider important”

>United dominates damn near every metric

“yeah well, when you have a lead you can sit back - those metrics aren’t too convincing”

???

You’re speaking of “achievements”, when all I made was a simple assessment based on eye test and corroborated by underlying metrics. Didn’t even think saying United was the better team today would be a controversial take, but here we are. I keep underestimating this place.
 
Rojofiam said:
I agree.

I'd add the Ronaldo signing to the fatal mistakes in his final season as well.

It's impossible to be organized out of possession with too many passengers who can't press well, or are just too lazy to do so, like Ronaldo, Pogba, Greenwood, and Rashford.

And you can't become a modern day elite team in possession either with the likes of De Gea, Varane and AWB doing the build-up.

Looking back at the squad we had back then and the positions we finished in Ole's two full seasons, I have to say we overachieved. We had good attacking talent and depth in that department (Rashford, Martial, Cavani, Pogba, Greenwood, Bruno), but otherwise that squad was light years away from competing.
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Ronaldo signing was part of the midfield recruitment issue and tactics change. We ended up playing differently and also didn't make a move for a CM at the end of that window.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nope. Hard disagree. He’s been frustrating all season long. There was one game where he was absolutely class (can’t actually remember which one - it’ll come to me…) but has been not good at all for almost every other match. Despite picking up a decent return of goals.

It’s a slightly weird season from him. Like I said, his return has been decent and if he’d converted a few of the sitters he’s missed it would be better than decent. But his all round game has been so disappointing .

Even his touch looks heavy and clumsy. Which is a shame because we all know he has fantastic touch on his day. I’m just putting it down to teething pains but the thought of relying on this season’s clumsy touch and wayward passing to beat the opposition press is a recipe for disaster IMO. Never mind expecting him to get all the defensive stuff right.
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It's like that season from Rooney where he was productive but his overall play wasn't good. Don't remember which one.
 
TsuWave said:
I’ve read your post twice and I don’t even know what you’re arguing.

“Your assessment of the game will vary based on which metrics you consider important”

>United dominates damn near every metric

“yeah well, when you have a lead you can sit back - those metrics aren’t too convincing”

???
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Not sure, what the issue is here. Maybe you have trouble interpreting the stats. In case you have questions, you are welcome to reach out. For me, this looks as if your "eyetest" came to a certain conclusion and then you took the stats and decided that they confirm your eyetest. Just fyi - I can say the exact same for us: my eyetest hasn't seen us being the better team, the advantages in some stats are easily explained and a higher xG would only mean something if it is based on multiple good chances spread over the whole match. You shouldn't feel insulted just because somebody doesn't share your opinion (because that is what it looks like to me, if I misunderstand, then excuse me of course)

TsuWave said:
You’re speaking of “achievements”, when all I made was a simple assessment based on eye test and corroborated by underlying metrics. Didn’t even think saying United was the better team today would be a controversial take, but here we are. I keep underestimating this place.
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You made an assessment based on YOUR eyetest and then titled it with EVIDENTLY. All I said was that evidently doesn't really fit and that your particular eyetest doesn't have any more substance than for example mine. As I said, if you think, we were good, then its fine. I didn't think we were "the better team" and I layed out the reasons - scoreline goes against your claim, number of shots or passes don't mean much when they don't lead to high calibre chances which they didn't and the xG claim might be correct but is heavily skewed as 75% of our overall xG (based on Understat) is made in one specific scene and 50% of our overall xG are based on a squandered chance that fell for Hojlund. Without that chance we'd end up with 0.8% which isn't great to begin with and certainly isn't a sign that we were a better team given that NFO generated 0.65xG and ended up with 3 goals.
 
TsuWave said:
Feels like you guys are salivating to have a pop already. Cooked fanbase
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I’m not having a pop at him. Yes just amazing how quickly the messaging seems to meld together.

I’d hope Amorim is the answer. I hoped ETH was too. I hoped Ole could get the players out of their stupor after Jose. I hope Jose could instil a ‘feck them all’ winning mentality.
 
Very fluky game.

Should have won.

This will be a long road, but we have to nail the new few signings.

We've just wasted so much money.
 
Gets a complete pass until next season for me, the players we have in attacking positions are either unproven or awful. No matter what foundation, build up structure or formation he plays, those players simply can’t score or create the goals you need in the prem.

Oles last full season we had Cavani, Pogba, Greenwood, Mata, Martial and Bruno in those attacking positions.

Ten Hags replaced those players with Garnacho, Hojlund, Antony Zirkzee. Until we get some star quality things won’t get better
 
Amorim knew it would happen as he's making a lot of changes each game and giving everyone a chance, bringing back players that haven't had any time. Best to do it now, assess it all and get each player involved to build up a better team ethic and see who needs to go first and get everyone onboard with the system, earlier the better.

He could do a salvage job but as he already said a few weeks ago he's not here for that.
 
NZT-One said:
Not sure, what the issue is here. Maybe you have trouble interpreting the stats. In case you have questions, you are welcome to reach out. For me, this looks as if your "eyetest" came to a certain conclusion and then you took the stats and decided that they confirm your eyetest. Just fyi - I can say the exact same for us: my eyetest hasn't seen us being the better team, the advantages in some stats are easily explained and a higher xG would only mean something if it is based on multiple good chances spread over the whole match. You shouldn't feel insulted just because somebody doesn't share your opinion (because that is what it looks like to me, if I misunderstand, then excuse me of course)


You made an assessment based on YOUR eyetest and then titled it with EVIDENTLY. All I said was that evidently doesn't really fit and that your particular eyetest doesn't have any more substance than for example mine. As I said, if you think, we were good, then its fine. I didn't think we were "the better team" and I layed out the reasons - scoreline goes against your claim, number of shots or passes don't mean much when they don't lead to high calibre chances which they didn't and the xG claim might be correct but is heavily skewed as 75% of our overall xG (based on Understat) is made in one specific scene and 50% of our overall xG are based on a squandered chance that fell for Hojlund. Without that chance we'd end up with 0.8% which isn't great to begin with and certainly isn't a sign that we were a better team given that NFO generated 0.65xG and ended up with 3 goals.
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Stick to the conversation we’re having please - no need for random psychoanalysis about the way you think I feel. I said United was the better team and the stats corroborate that, hence evidently. You wanting to explain away the stats is something you’re free to engage in. It doesn’t, however, change the evidence.

“I didn't think we were "the better team" - scoreline goes against your claim” - are you inferring a team cannot be better on the day and still lose the game?

No need for qualifiers such as “if you think we were good”, that’s you moving goalposts. I said we were the better team - which is a different statement completely.

field tilt, possession, last third entries, shots on target, etc. United led/dominated damn near all stats today. In fact, the only game stats I see Forest leading are tackles, saves, goals prevented and clearances - funny enough those also suggest United was the better team.

roseguy64 said:
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Apparently we weren’t the better team. feck sake
 
Keep seeing people say 3-4-2-1 won’t work etc. so when Ole and ETH played 4-2-3-1 did that work?
 


I like that he's clear with what his wants and can very clearly see the issues. My worry is that he's got a lot of work to fecking do, some of it he can't control (player personnel), some of it I'm not sure will 'work' well enough (midfield two) and he's got to do that whilst trying to win games and not lose morale/support.

You can blame the back three for being super cautious and poor on the ball but you can't make de Ligt an elite passer and Martinez a great channel defender. Except, even if he can get a back three to be good on the ball, relying on a midfield two combination of Ugarte (who holds his own), a developing Mainoo and/or Casemiro/Eriksen/Bruno to be receiving balls on the half turn or find space there when teams hold their position and don't press the defence is already big task in itself. He'll need a couple of Fabregas, Matic, Kante, de Jong like talents for that to work and even then, it's a risky strategy especially if you already got Rashford, Garnacho and unproven strikers in Hojlund and Zirkzee in the forward positions. I'm going to give him time and I understand the need for him to rotate and find his own path but I'm tired robbie.

I honestly think he can do a quick fix by playing Mazraoui as RCB, Dalot at RWB and Amad as one of the 10s. That's a very strong right side with all the passing, defending, attacking, athletic and ball progression you'd want. Rotate Yoro in at RCB to manage his minutes. On the left I'd play Malacia or whoever is fit. You're hamstringing yourself spreading the talent to accommodate other positions and players.
 
DJ_21 said:
Keep seeing people say 3-4-2-1 won’t work etc. so when Ole and ETH played 4-2-3-1 did that work?
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I’m not particularly keen on 3 at the back, but find it curious that people are saying this - especially because based on the little evidence available, I think we have been more cohesive as a team than previously. Today being used as the “this isn’t going to work” hill to die on is quite confusing. More than most games - i think today exposed the lack of quality and individual shortcomings in the squad.
 
TsuWave said:
Stick to the conversation we’re having please - no need for random psychoanalysis about the way you think I feel. I said United was the better team and the stats corroborate that, hence evidently. You wanting to explain away the stats is something you’re free to engage in. It doesn’t, however, change the evidence.

“I didn't think we were "the better team" - scoreline goes against your claim” - are you inferring a team cannot be better on the day and still lose the game?

No need for qualifiers such as “if you think we were good”, that’s you moving goalposts. I said we were the better team - which is a different statement completely.

field tilt, possession, last third entries, shots on target, etc. United led/dominated damn near all stats today. In fact, the only game stats I see Forest leading are tackles, saves, goals prevented and clearances - funny enough those also suggest United was the better team.



Apparently we weren’t the better team. feck sake
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We had the better individuals, as we usually do - it is what spending 600+ million over the last few seasons should get you.

But like many times over the past few years, our opponents are often far more organised, fitter and better coached than we are.

I would say Forest were the better team because despite knowing they were not upto our talent level, they came to OT, scored three goals and defended well, knowing their limitations.

Football isn't always about having more possession, xg, most passes or shots. It is about what you can squeeze out of the XI that you have. Forest did that better, therefore were the better team.

Non of this is a slight on Amorim because he has been left a hot mess.
 
Hope I'm wrong but it would hardly be a surprise if we spend another 300/400 million on trying to make a 3-4-3 system work only to change manager in another 2/3 years and end up with another mismatched squad for someone else to wrestle with
 
A lot of you wanted to give ETH 3 years, but are writing the guy off after a couple of weeks? :lol: :lol:

Absolute madness. ETH broke you, take a break from football.
 
gaffs said:
We had the better individuals, as we usually do - it is what spending 600+ million over the last few seasons should get you.

But like many times over the past few years, our opponents are often far more organised, fitter and better coached than we are.

I would say Forest were the better team because despite knowing they were not upto our talent level, they came to OT, scored three goals and defended well, knowing their limitations.

Football isn't always about having more possession, xg, most passes or shots. It is about what you can squeeze out of the XI that you have. Forest did that better, therefore were the better team.

Non of this is a slight on Amorim because he has been left a hot mess.
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I feel you’re mythologising Forest’s performance. Not every team that spends the game largely played in their half of the pitch is having a masterclass - even in the few defensive stats they led - the disparity is nowhere near enough to justify “far more organised”.

We conceded poor goals - GK and GK/CB lapses/errors, but in the same vein of sentiment that you express to dismiss our statistical dominance, there’s more to football than scoreline. We lack the quality to make the most of the ball and the last third entries we had, but that was legit one of my first statements here - and doesn’t inherently translate to a Forest masterclass or whatever.
 
RonaldoVII said:
Hope I'm wrong but it would hardly be a surprise if we spend another 300/400 million on trying to make a 3-4-3 system work only to change manager in another 2/3 years and end up with another mismatched squad for someone else to wrestle with
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This is the primary reason I'm not so keen on the 3421 because it's hard to keep continuity long term. 433 would be safer
 
giggs-beckham said:
This is the primary reason I'm not so keen on the 3421 because it's hard to keep continuity long term. 433 would be safer
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Exactly. I'm sure we all hoped that bringing in a DOF and football people would instill a system that should work regardless of manager and the first thing they do is bring one in that is hard set on 3-4-3
 
criticalanalysis said:


I like that he's clear with what his wants and can very clearly see the issues. My worry is that he's got a lot of work to fecking do, some of it he can't control (player personnel), some of it I'm not sure will 'work' well enough (midfield two) and he's got to do that whilst trying to win games and not lose morale/support.

You can blame the back three for being super cautious and poor on the ball but you can't make de Ligt an elite passer and Martinez a great channel defender. Except, even if he can get a back three to be good on the ball, relying on a midfield two combination of Ugarte (who holds his own), a developing Mainoo and/or Casemiro/Eriksen/Bruno to be receiving balls on the half turn or find space there when teams hold their position and don't press the defence is already big task in itself. He'll need a couple of Fabregas, Matic, Kante, de Jong like talents for that to work and even then, it's a risky strategy especially if you already got Rashford, Garnacho and unproven strikers in Hojlund and Zirkzee in the forward positions. I'm going to give him time and I understand the need for him to rotate and find his own path but I'm tired robbie.

I honestly think he can do a quick fix by playing Mazraoui as RCB, Dalot at RWB and Amad as one of the 10s. That's a very strong right side with all the passing, defending, attacking, athletic and ball progression you'd want. Rotate Yoro in at RCB to manage his minutes. On the left I'd play Malacia or whoever is fit. You're hamstringing yourself spreading the talent to accommodate other positions and players.
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Great points, but he knows now that he needs at least two players in January to implement his new system. I think our best team with current personal is ; A Onana, N Mazraoui(RCB), H Maguire(CB), L Yoro(LCB)
Amad(RWB), M Ugarte(DM), Bruno(CM),L Shaw(LWB), M Mount(10), M Rashford(SS), R Hojlund(CFW) the problem with that team is at very least a new LWB like Alt Nouri and a new SS/10 like Cunha are essential just to get this team moving up to the top 10, it’s no longer a case of which 6 or 7 do we get rid of but which 6 or 7 we keep for 25/26 season, just in attacking positions alone this is the worst United squad for 50 years!
 
RonaldoVII said:
Exactly. I'm sure we all hoped that bringing in a DOF and football people would instill a system that should work regardless of manager and the first thing they do is bring one in that is hard set on 3-4-3
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Yeah this is my only issue with this situation. But already done so just hope it works.
 
RonaldoVII said:
Exactly. I'm sure we all hoped that bringing in a DOF and football people would instill a system that should work regardless of manager and the first thing they do is bring one in that is hard set on 3-4-3
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Tbf it's easier to go from a 3-4-3 to a 4-3-3, than a 4-2-3-1 to a 3-4-3. As in, in the future if/when we get a manager that wants to play 4-3-3. We would have the players capable to do that. Also if Amorim gets his type of players in, we will have athletically strong and clever players, with pretty good technical ability. Which again, fits in perfectly for a 4-3-3 as well.
 
JBG said:
Tbf it's easier to go from a 3-4-3 to a 4-3-3, than a 4-2-3-1 to a 3-4-3. As in, in the future if/when we get a manager that wants to play 4-3-3. We would have the players capable to do that. Also if Amorim gets his type of players in, we will have athletically strong and clever players, with pretty good technical ability. Which again, fits in perfectly for a 4-3-3 as well.
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I was just going to say this with regards to him getting players with good technique and physicality. Now feel less worried, ha.
I thought he sometimes plays a 433? One of the Sporting guys said, could've imagined it.
 
I think this is the best team, but even with everyone fit it still feels very short in CM (Mainoo), LWB, CF, 10 and LCB. And I don’t really trust the keeper.

Onana
Maz De Ligt Shaw/Martinez
Amad Ugarte Mainoo Shaw/Dalot
Mount/Garnacho Fernandes
Hojlund

So 5-6 players not good enough. After all that spend, sigh. At least the Ineos signings seem decent (Ugarte/Maz/Yoro). Zirkzee a worry - but a 75% hit rate would be acceptable if that continued.
 
Amazing that a thread can have so many experts, yet still be completely incoherent.

A genuinely mind-boggling read.

Probably time to take a break from the madness of the United Forum and wait for muppet season to kick in.

Good night sweet prince(s).
 
TsuWave said:
I’m not particularly keen on 3 at the back, but find it curious that people are saying this - especially because based on the little evidence available, I think we have been more cohesive as a team than previously. Today being used as the “this isn’t going to work” hill to die on is quite confusing. More than most games - i think today exposed the lack of quality and individual shortcomings in the squad.
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I'll take the infraction on this one from the mods. It's because they're clowns, plain and simple. I'm sick to death of them. They're the same tools that died on the 442 hill when 433 and 4231 was becoming a thing. They'd default to 442 after every confirmation bias loss that wasn't a 442. It's the same now. They die on the 4231 hill. The moment 343 looks vulnerable for a moment, they bring out the 4 at the back argument.

Of course, they have no clue that City on the ball are 3 at the back and 4 off the ball......but when we're 3 on the ball at the back, well, that can't happen!!
 
The truth is ETH has screw us up so badly with signings that has set us back for 3 seasons. There is practically no way that Amorim can work with this squad and he needs 2-3 seasons with many incoming and outgoing players before any result can be seen. Martinez is too slow and too small to be our CB, rather have Shaw as LCB but this guy has a problem staying fit. Antony is a 84 million one trick poney that has no pace and right feet that has no business to be playing in the EPL. Onana yesterday hardly near saving anything that is kick towards him. Casemiro is just too old to be playing at United, he wasn't the right profile signing. Hoijund isn't even a EPL standard striker, inconsistent as hell, doesn't link up well, wasting his energy wrestling CB. Why did we sign Mount who contract is expiring? He doesn't create, can't score, can't tackle, what does he contribute? Then add to Rashford and Bruno, it is a disaster of a team. As far as I see, nobody has the ability to make this club successful. We count ourselves lucky not to be relegated in the next 2 years. Amorim needs at least 3-4 years with 15 new signings before we becomes competitive.
 
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