Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Amazing that a thread can have so many experts, yet still be completely incoherent.

A genuinely mind-boggling read.

Probably time to take a break from the madness of the United Forum and wait for muppet season to kick in.

Good night sweet prince(s).

 

[Hoof the ball]

I’m not particularly keen on 3 at the back, but find it curious that people are saying this - especially because based on the little evidence available, I think we have been more cohesive as a team than previously. Today being used as the “this isn’t going to work” hill to die on is quite confusing. More than most games - i think today exposed the lack of quality and individual shortcomings in the squad.

I'll take the infraction on this one from the mods. It's because they're clowns, plain and simple. I'm sick to death of them. They're the same tools that died on the 442 hill when 433 and 4231 was becoming a thing. They'd default to 442 after every confirmation bias loss that wasn't a 442. It's the same now. They die on the 4231 hill. The moment 343 looks vulnerable for a moment, they bring out the 4 at the back argument.

Of course, they have no clue that City on the ball are 3 at the back and 4 off the ball......but when we're 3 on the ball at the back, well, that can't happen!!

 

[r0663664]

The truth is ETH has screw us up so badly with signings that has set us back for 3 seasons. There is practically no way that Amorim can work with this squad and he needs 2-3 seasons with many incoming and outgoing players before any result can be seen. Martinez is too slow and too small to be our CB, rather have Shaw as LCB but this guy has a problem staying fit. Antony is a 84 million one trick poney that has no pace and right feet that has no business to be playing in the EPL. Onana yesterday hardly near saving anything that is kick towards him. Casemiro is just too old to be playing at United, he wasn't the right profile signing. Hoijund isn't even a EPL standard striker, inconsistent as hell, doesn't link up well, wasting his energy wrestling CB. Why did we sign Mount who contract is expiring? He doesn't create, can't score, can't tackle, what does he contribute? Then add to Rashford and Bruno, it is a disaster of a team. As far as I see, nobody has the ability to make this club successful. We count ourselves lucky not to be relegated in the next 2 years. Amorim needs at least 3-4 years with 15 new signings before we becomes competitive.

 

[Blood Mage]

Looking at our upcoming fixtures I think pressure is going to build on him quickly. There will be no talk of patience if we get dragged into a relegation scrap. I can see him abandoning his philosophy and reverting to a tactical setup the players are more comfortable with to get some points on the board.

 

[Hester_manc]

So much money has been spent on this squad and a lot of that money has resulted in too many bad buys. The squad is so weak that I don't even think SAF would be able to get us into the top 3 in the league when he was at his best.

But it shouldn't be a secret that I was skeptical about Amorim at United in advance. He has been manager of Sporting in a not particularly big league, and now he is in the world's best league with one of the world's biggest teams, but with a bad squad. I have no faith that he will be able to turn this into something better than ETH could.

I wanted a manager who had proven he could get a lot out of a slightly poor squad in the Premier League. For example Thomas Frank. I would have been more comfortable with that choice. What he has achieved with Brentford over many years is close to a miracle. We could use that.

 

[cpresc]

The truth is ETH has screw us up so badly with signings that has set us back for 3 seasons. There is practically no way that Amorim can work with this squad and he needs 2-3 seasons with many incoming and outgoing players before any result can be seen. Martinez is too slow and too small to be our CB, rather have Shaw as LCB but this guy has a problem staying fit. Antony is a 84 million one trick poney that has no pace and right feet that has no business to be playing in the EPL. Onana yesterday hardly near saving anything that is kick towards him. Casemiro is just too old to be playing at United, he wasn't the right profile signing. Hoijund isn't even a EPL standard striker, inconsistent as hell, doesn't link up well, wasting his energy wrestling CB. Why did we sign Mount who contract is expiring? He doesn't create, can't score, can't tackle, what does he contribute? Then add to Rashford and Bruno, it is a disaster of a team. As far as I see, nobody has the ability to make this club successful. We count ourselves lucky not to be relegated in the next 2 years. Amorim needs at least 3-4 years with 15 new signings before we becomes competitive.

Matey got so raged up here that Amorim needed an extra year just off the back of this post

 

[Garethw]

Hopefully he ditches zonal marking on set pieces and goes man for man.

 

[NZT-One]

Stick to the conversation we’re having please - no need for random psychoanalysis about the way you think I feel. I said United was the better team and the stats corroborate that, hence evidently. You wanting to explain away the stats is something you’re free to engage in. It doesn’t, however, change the evidence.

I am not explaining the stats away. I think you are overstating their meaning to make them helping your claim.

“I didn't think we were "the better team" - scoreline goes against your claim” - are you inferring a team cannot be better on the day and still lose the game?

No and I am pretty sure you are smart enough to know that I didn't. Anyhow - more often than not, the team with the better scoreline has been the better team in a given match. Doesn't apply always, of course, which is why I didn't stop there.

No need for qualifiers such as “if you think we were good”, that’s you moving goalposts. I said we were the better team - which is a different statement completely.

Ok, you are right. You didn't say we were good but less bad than NFO. I still wouldn't agree to this, which isn't something, that should be a problem I guess. Maybe I am too literal and people just throw this "evidently" around.

field tilt, possession, last third entries, shots on target, etc. United led/dominated damn near all stats today. In fact, the only game stats I see Forest leading are tackles, saves, goals prevented and clearances - funny enough those also suggest United was the better team.

Let me try your approach, do you infer, that field tilt, possession or shots on target necessarily mean, that one team was the better team? Maybe it was NFOs plan to leave the ball to us. Inviting us to their side of the pitch to be able to hit us on the counter? Again, if you saw us as being the better team, so be it, I don't agree and it seems, quite a few others wouldn't as well.

Apparently we weren’t the better team. feck sake

Just look at the graphic! It shows exactly what I tried to explain to you - our xG makes one big bounce, the double chance of Garnacho and Hojlund. 0.4 and 0.8. One scene with a combined xG of 1.2. Overall, so after 97 minutes, we ended up with 1.7. If you take away this one scene, we end up with 0.5. Lets ignore that Hojlunds 0.8 come mostly from a blunder and some good fortune - tell me, does one scene at around the 20-minute mark make us the better team in your eyes? Probably not, right? So maybe, just maybe, there is something that speaks against us being the better team despite what your personal eyetest resulted in.

 

[Blood Mage]

So much money has been spent on this squad and a lot of that money has resulted in too many bad buys. The squad is so weak that I don't even think SAF would be able to get us into the top 3 in the league when he was at his best.

But it shouldn't be a secret that I was skeptical about Amorim at United in advance. He has been manager of Sporting in a not particularly big league, and now he is in the world's best league with one of the world's biggest teams, but with a bad squad. I have no faith that he will be able to turn this into something better than ETH could.

I wanted a manager who had proven he could get a lot out of a slightly poor squad in the Premier League. For example Thomas Frank. I would have been more comfortable with that choice. What he has achieved with Brentford over many years is close to a miracle. We could use that.

Yes in hindsight Frank would have been more sensible hire given the quality of our squad. Amorim is the upgrade on Frank you hire after a couple of years when you have better players.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

The truth is ETH has screw us up so badly with signings that has set us back for 3 seasons. There is practically no way that Amorim can work with this squad and he needs 2-3 seasons with many incoming and outgoing players before any result can be seen. Martinez is too slow and too small to be our CB, rather have Shaw as LCB but this guy has a problem staying fit. Antony is a 84 million one trick poney that has no pace and right feet that has no business to be playing in the EPL. Onana yesterday hardly near saving anything that is kick towards him. Casemiro is just too old to be playing at United, he wasn't the right profile signing. Hoijund isn't even a EPL standard striker, inconsistent as hell, doesn't link up well, wasting his energy wrestling CB. Why did we sign Mount who contract is expiring? He doesn't create, can't score, can't tackle, what does he contribute? Then add to Rashford and Bruno, it is a disaster of a team. As far as I see, nobody has the ability to make this club successful. We count ourselves lucky not to be relegated in the next 2 years. Amorim needs at least 3-4 years with 15 new signings before we becomes competitive.

The truth is amorim has no excuses and needs to implement his style over the coming months. We shouldn't expect to be the best team in the league but we shouldn't expect to be one of the bottom half either.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I hope people are joking with the Thomas Frank shouts. He'd be Moyes 2.0

We don't need someone to 'steady the ship' or someone with 'PL experience'.

If Amorim in a year or so isn't the man, then you sack him and find someone else.

 

[Woziak]

The truth is ETH has screw us up so badly with signings that has set us back for 3 seasons. There is practically no way that Amorim can work with this squad and he needs 2-3 seasons with many incoming and outgoing players before any result can be seen. Martinez is too slow and too small to be our CB, rather have Shaw as LCB but this guy has a problem staying fit. Antony is a 84 million one trick poney that has no pace and right feet that has no business to be playing in the EPL. Onana yesterday hardly near saving anything that is kick towards him. Casemiro is just too old to be playing at United, he wasn't the right profile signing. Hoijund isn't even a EPL standard striker, inconsistent as hell, doesn't link up well, wasting his energy wrestling CB. Why did we sign Mount who contract is expiring? He doesn't create, can't score, can't tackle, what does he contribute? Then add to Rashford and Bruno, it is a disaster of a team. As far as I see, nobody has the ability to make this club successful. We count ourselves lucky not to be relegated in the next 2 years. Amorim needs at least 3-4 years with 15 new signings before we becomes competitive.

One bad game can make man united fans, me included become slightly hyperbolic that we sack all the players and we need 15/16 players. Now I’ve calmed down maybe we can be more optimistic and back Amorim but we also need to recognise fundamental problems within the club and some of his Inexperience at PL level.

Youth - while our under 18’s have been very good in the last two seasons, the transition to under 21 is not good, the wining culture from the U18’s is not passed on to the older group, with mostly journey men being produced right now at under 21 level. Yes in two years we might have Goodwill Mkonki, Shea Lacey, Ibragimov, Harry Amass, S Kone, Jack Fletcher, Biancheri, Mussa and Chido obi Martin coming through.

Development Path - When these kids come through, what role models do they currently have, who’s mentoring them?
Andre Onana, Mason Mount, Marcus Rashford, Alexandro Garnaucho, Lysandro Martinez, MDL, Luke Shaw. Most of these players are not regular apart from Martinez and you wouldn’t want any of that lot near our talented youngsters.

The best professionals who you want as role models are Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen,
N Mazraoui, Johnny Evan’s and Harry Maguire and only two of them is fancied by Amorim. This is why Ruben’s made his first mistake, we have terrible dead ball delivery and in game IQ without Casemiro and Eriksen, he’s alienated both when he could easily have adjusted he’s 3421to be more pragmatic 352 which would have suited the current squad better.

More Suited Formation
Ruben could have kept all his principles and been more pragmatic, looking at 3421 square midfield 4 or a 352 formation which would have allowed him to target at least 20 points from the 9 PL games before the new year, so far he’s picked up 4 points from 4 Games and that’s worrying given we’ve played Ipswich. Everton and Forrest.

He’s young and not used to failure but the EPL is a level he’s never managed at and if he’s no careful he could end up with 8 or 9 points from those 9 games and then he’s under pressure, real pressure early into his tenure.

Right now Our best 11 for this system is;
A Onana(GK)(just),
L Yoro(RCB), MDL(CB), H Maguire(LCB)
AMAD(RWB), M Ugarte(CM), Casemiro(CM), N Mazraoui(LWB),
K Mainoo(L10), Bruno(R10)
R Hojlund(9 …only because he’s the only genuine 9)

Most of these these players have in game IQ, MDL and Maguire lack of pace are covered by Yoro, Mainoo will be do much more effective in the 10 and you have a solid square midfield, possession based football, sometimes you play Rashford with Hojlund as twin attack and drop Bruno a little deeper in a 352 formation. I would also be using Eriksen for 20/30 mins each game to calm things down.

Get Mazroui, Amad and Kobbie on set piece duty and practise delivery, take Bruno off indirect fee kicks and corners, use the back three’s physical attributes more as a goal threat from set pieces and stop zonal marking, go man for man at the back.

He needs a result on Sunday and realistically as bad as City are right now, they could easily put 4 or 5 this squad of imposters.

 

[RobbieBerns]

We need a major cull in the summer even if potential incomings won’t cover for all of the outgoing necessary. Would absolutely just have them all go if it means we go the Barca route of incorporating 5-7 of the teenagers into the first team squad trial by fire style.

Kukonki, Amass, Mantato, Ibragimov, Martin, Kone all names that pop up as lads that could step up and star in problem positions. A lot easier to work with and build up talented youth than to struggle with overpaid and underperforming “stars” that are better off moving on and rebuilding their careers elsewhere.

 

[gaffs]

I love Amorim and have been advocating for him for over a year whenever there was a "who replaces Ten Hag" thread.

Whoever came in post Ten Hag would have been left with a very tough job. The team is clearly not upto the high levels of Arsenal, Liverpool, City (pre November) and now Chelsea and we are nowhere near as organised as the likes of Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, Forest. I mean, even Ipswich looked to be better coached than us. They all have an identity and clear way of playing.

But what Amorim is trying to do is take an unfit, poorly coached and badly assembled group who seem to rely on winning games from "moments" and have them play in a new formation. A lot of changes at once which i dont think these players can handle.

And i agree when Amorim says it is less about formation and more about the way players play, how they press and encouraging them to keep the ball better, but playing players in unfamiliar roles, is only going to make the process more painful this season.

Amorim is a very positive guy who defends his players, but if you were to put him on a lie detector, I bet there are very few of the United players that he has seen so far that he would want to keep.

It may well be that he could make a lot of this squad better over time, but will they truly fit the system? Very few fit the profiles of players he had at Sporting.

Take Rashford. Our highest paid player. Even at his very best 22/23 form, i cant see him being able to effectively play a role in an ideal Amorim team. He doesn't have the technical attributes and willingness to press and track back like Gonçalves or Trincão do at Sporting. At least if Amorim came in and played 433 there was the chance the he could get the very best out of Rashford and play him in the role he is best in. I don't see he has a role in a 3421.

Im behind him 100% and i dont think he should compromise if he thinks his way is the way to go. I think of all the managers post Fergie, Amorim is the right character fit, which accounts for a lot. But I think seeing us in the last 5 games has made me realise how tough the task is going to be.

 

[Acquire Me]

It’s going to be a long journey. Amorim has said it multiple times and we all know it. I will go to war for him. Anyone going against him has fecking lost the plot.

 

[gaffs]

One bad game can make man united fans, me included become slightly hyperbolic that we sack all the players and we need 15/16 players. Now I’ve calmed down maybe we can be more optimistic and back Amorim but we also need to recognise fundamental problems within the club and some of his Inexperience at PL level.

Youth - while our under 18’s have been very good in the last two seasons, the transition to under 21 is not good, the wining culture from the U18’s is not passed on to the older group, with mostly journey men being produced right now at under 21 level. Yes in two years we might have Goodwill Mkonki, Shea Lacey, Ibragimov, Harry Amass, S Kone, Jack Fletcher, Biancheri, Mussa and Chido obi Martin coming through.

Development Path - When these kids come through, what role models do they currently have, who’s mentoring them?
Andre Onana, Mason Mount, Marcus Rashford, Alexandro Garnaucho, Lysandro Martinez, MDL, Luke Shaw. Most of these players are not regular apart from Martinez and you wouldn’t want any of that lot near our talented youngsters.

The best professionals who you want as role models are Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen,
N Mazraoui, Johnny Evan’s and Harry Maguire and only two of them is fancied by Amorim. This is why Ruben’s made his first mistake, we have terrible dead ball delivery and in game IQ without Casemiro and Eriksen, he’s alienated both when he could easily have adjusted he’s 3421to be more pragmatic 352 which would have suited the current squad better.

More Suited Formation
Ruben could have kept all his principles and been more pragmatic, looking at 3421 square midfield 4 or a 352 formation which would have allowed him to target at least 20 points from the 9 PL games before the new year, so far he’s picked up 4 points from 4 Games and that’s worrying given we’ve played Ipswich. Everton and Forrest.

He’s young and not used to failure but the EPL is a level he’s never managed at and if he’s no careful he could end up with 8 or 9 points from those 9 games and then he’s under pressure, real pressure early into his tenure.

Right now Our best 11 for this system is;
A Onana(GK)(just),
L Yoro(RCB), MDL(CB), H Maguire(LCB)
AMAD(RWB), M Ugarte(CM), Casemiro(CM), N Mazraoui(LWB),
K Mainoo(L10), Bruno(R10)
R Hojlund(9 …only because he’s the only genuine 9)

Most of these these players have in game IQ, MDL and Maguire lack of pace are covered by Yoro, Mainoo will be do much more effective in the 10 and you have a solid square midfield, possession based football, sometimes you play Rashford with Hojlund as twin attack and drop Bruno a little deeper in a 352 formation. I would also be using Eriksen for 20/30 mins each game to calm things down.

Get Mazroui, Amad and Kobbie on set piece duty and practise delivery, take Bruno off indirect fee kicks and corners, use the back three’s physical attributes more as a goal threat from set pieces and stop zonal marking, go man for man at the back.

He needs a result on Sunday and realistically as bad as City are right now, they could easily put 4 or 5 this squad of imposters.

This isn't a system, it is a line up and starting formation.

Many of these players you have not seen play in these roles.

I think there is a massive lack of understanding on the Caf about how Amorim wants to play and the profile of the players he needs to play that way.

If you have seen Sporting play, you see that his centernal center back is often used as a quarterback. He will hold the ball and look for the wing backs that will bomb on and aim to pass in behind the defence. This is absolutely key because it is those wingbacks that stretch out the opposition midfield horizontally, leaving passing lanes in the middle of midfield. Once those lanes open up, Sporting (like United first goal today) will go up, back and through, with the aim of feeding the ball into the forward, who Amorim will expect to hold the ball and bring his 10s into play.

With that in mind, do you see MDL playing as a QB? No. Is Mazraoui best utilized bombing up the left flank all day? Maybe no. Can Hojlund hold the ball up for sh1t? Absolutely not.

The fact is, very few of them fit the profile needed which is why this season will be a real struggle.

 

[Blood Mage]

This isn't a system, it is a line up and starting formation.

Many of these players you have not seen play in these roles.

I think there is a massive lack of understanding on the Caf about how Amorim wants to play and the profile of the players he needs to play that way.

If you have seen Sporting play, you see that his centernal center back is often used as a quarterback. He will hold the ball and look for the wing backs that will bomb on and aim to pass in behind the defence. This is absolutely key because it is those wingbacks that stretch out the opposition midfield horizontally, leaving passing lanes in the middle of midfield. Once those lanes open up, Sporting (like United first goal today) will go up, back and through, with the aim of feeding the ball into the forward, who Amorim will expect to hold the ball and bring his 10s into play.

With that in mind, do you see MDL playing as a QB? No. Is Mazraoui best utilized bombing up the left flank all day? Maybe no. Can Hojlund hold the ball up for sh1t? Absolutely not.

The fact is, very few of them fit the profile needed which is why this season will be a real struggle.

Maguire is the best fit for that central CB role but the caf hasn't accepted it yet. He's good at pinging the ball out to the flanks.

 

[gaffs]

Maguire is the best fit for that central CB role but the caf hasn't accepted it yet. He's good at pinging the ball out to the flanks.

I actually agree.

Look how Amorim used Sebastian Coates. You will see many great passes as Amorim used him in the very role...



Maguire's passing isn't this good, and of course you need wingback that are willing and timing their runs correctly, but Maguire is the best of a bad lot for this position.

One issue Maguire would have is that Coates also used to step into Midfield and overload the opposition when they were up against an low block. Cant see Maguire doing that.

 

[gajender]

Maguire is the best fit for that central CB role but the caf hasn't accepted it yet. He's good at pinging the ball out to the flanks.

I actually agree.

Look how Amorim used Sebastian Coates. You will see many great passes as Amorim used him in the very role...



Maguire's passing isn't this good, and of course you need wingback that are willing and timing their runs correctly, but Maguire is the best of a bad lot for this position.

One issue Maguire would have is that Coates also used to step into Midfield and overload the opposition when they were up against an low block. Cant see Maguire doing that.

Is Maguire really best fit or just another one who just hasn't been exposed due to limited game time Under Amorim after Injury .

I think we will be having similar conversation about him Like De Ligt once he plays few games through the middle .

 

[manutdnigerian]

The truth of the matter is that presently we don’t have 90 percent of the players needed for this formation. My question is this, as a coach, knowing that you don’t have the players for your formation, what do you do? Insist with the formation or change formation until you have the players for your favoured formation? Clearly it isn’t working at the moment. The constant rotation isn’t helping matters. He should know what his best XI is by now and stick to it, then he can make changes during the second half to rest players.

 

[TPM]

What a disaster of a situation for him. Trying to implement a complete change in play mid season is insane, he’s the type of manger you bring in the summer and gets a full pre season. Extending ten hag this summer was such a dumb move. Then add in that he didn’t get any of his players in the transfer and oof.

Hope he can correct this but it’s going to be a long grind.

 

[sepulturite]

I think over the next few games RA is going to have to start phasing out the players he knows can't play this system and combine the ones from the two starting elevens that he's been rotating with that definitely can. There's going to be a few big names that will be phased out I'm sure but it needs to happen.

No more pandering to them just because they're on high wages or whatever. Every one of them is getting a fair crack of the whip and RA will know from watching them who is up for it and who isn't, no one really has any excuses that they weren't given the opportunities.

 

[TsuWave]

I am not explaining the stats away. I think you are overstating their meaning to make them helping your claim.

You've tried to explain the stats away - you've tried to contextualise the stats multiple times, which, you're free to do, but ultimately doesn't change them

No and I am pretty sure you are smart enough to know that I didn't. Anyhow - more often than not, the team with the better scoreline has been the better team in a given match. Doesn't apply always, of course, which is why I didn't stop there.

I mean, if I make a statement saying "scoreline aside almost every significant underlying metric supports that we were the better team" - and you retort with "the scoreline doesn't support your claim" - what are you inferring then? Especially when I purposely noted the scoreline. This isn't the first nor will it be the last time the final scoreline doesn't reflect nor encapsulate in its totality how a football game was played.

Ok, you are right. You didn't say we were good but less bad than NFO. I still wouldn't agree to this, which isn't something, that should be a problem I guess. Maybe I am too literal and people just throw this "evidently" around.

The statement I made was rooted on evidence - it is corroborated by in-game metrics, after all

Let me try your approach, do you infer, that field tilt, possession or shots on target necessarily mean, that one team was the better team? Maybe it was NFOs plan to leave the ball to us. Inviting us to their side of the pitch to be able to hit us on the counter? Again, if you saw us as being the better team, so be it, I don't agree and it seems, quite a few others wouldn't as well.

Just look at the graphic! It shows exactly what I tried to explain to you - our xG makes one big bounce, the double chance of Garnacho and Hojlund. 0.4 and 0.8. One scene with a combined xG of 1.2. Overall, so after 97 minutes, we ended up with 1.7. If you take away this one scene, we end up with 0.5. Lets ignore that Hojlunds 0.8 come mostly from a blunder and some good fortune - tell me, does one scene at around the 20-minute mark make us the better team in your eyes? Probably not, right? So maybe, just maybe, there is something that speaks against us being the better team despite what your personal eyetest resulted in.

Yes, if those are reiterated in almost every other in-game metric. Again, from the stat sources I've looked at - Forest legitimately only led in GK saves, goals prevented, clearances, and goal kicks. They scored two of the flukiest goals you're likely to see all month - it happens, it's football. You're, again, contextualising us having better stats, namely xG - but like, "blunder and some good fortune" is legit what gave Forest the win. I mean, Nuno is on record saying "we held on to the end as best as we could". Forest didn't play a good game, and neither did United, but we were better - that however - doesn't always translate to a win, and I've not been shy about our lack of quality with the ball, decision-making and what we did with our final third entries, which again, we dominated. My statement wasn't made solely on/with xG in isolation so your last question and what your surmised from it, s lazy.

 

[Insanity]

I disagree. I think starting the best shape to suit your squad is vital. And I just think it is a complete myth that 4231 with a traditional double pivot couldn’t have formed a basis for title challenging football. I appreciate it’s early in the season, but it is exactly how Chelsea are setting up and they look like they are gonna be in and around challenging at the end of the season.

But if you changed their set up to a 343… with Maduake now a wingback, gusto a RCB, Cucarella a wingback… and palmers space behind the striker congested with another 10, they wouldn’t look as good.

All Bruno’s best games have been as a solo 10. All rashfords best games have been as an inside LW with and overlapping fb. All dalots best games have been as a traditional RB. All Casemiros best games have been in a mid block double pivot. And Martinez best games have been as a LCB in a pair. All Shaws best games have been at LB… you can go on and on…. Yet all of them have very rarely been deployed in those positions in getting on 2 years. It just boggles the mind.

But ultimately, I’m still excited about Amorim and what he is gonna do with us. I just can’t help but find it frustrating that 2 years ago we were seemingly on to something…. Ripped it up for no reason, and are now starting from scratch on something completely new that I am not convinced suits the strengths of many of our best players.

If our goal was to simply aim for a top four position playing a 4231 mid-block then we might as well have continued with Ruud. I don't disagree with you that this team is built to play 4231 on the counter. However, I thought the aim getting Ruben mid-season was to give him a free hit in the league this season to implement his ideas and shape the team in his vision. If we, or him if results remain very poor, fall into the same trap of chasing a better league position this season then nothing will fundamentally change. We have to go through this pain and let him implement his ideas before deciding to spend a wad of cash on players.

Like I said in my previous posts, we need to be patient and let him mold the team in his vision. 5, 10, 20 games, we should be able to see the team play his style of football. Then we make the changes to perfect that style of football with the right players.

Formations are good only on paper. It's what we do with it without the football that needs to change for us to become a better team. That takes time to fully enforce and I hope we are all patient in giving him that time.

Chelsea are doing better because they have better players. Their midfield is so much better than us with more legs and creativity. They have superior forwards in Palmer and Jackson with a decent supporting cast. Their FB's are better than us. Also, for Chelsea the signs of it coming together were visible during the later part of last season. Poch had started getting them some good results. Now the new manager has continued on that work and made them better. We don't have that luxury as our last manager left us in a right mess.

You want Shaw to play LB, but Shaw has to remain fit to play any position. Malacia is mediocre and is back after a long lay off. Our problem is not that we are trying to fit a square peg in a round role for the left defensive position, it's that we don't have a peg for that position.

Rashford has looked out of sorts for the third season running. His problems extend far beyond the system. The system isn't stopping him from running or making simply passes or dribbling past the opposition defenders.

We have to admit that this team is not the best even for a 4231 formation. We have two choices: either try to get the best results out of these bozos and finish 8th or let the new manager implement his system even if we finish in the bottom half but become a much better unit.

If it doesn't happen, we move on from Ruben and get someone else. But we can't ask him to abandon his system 4 or 5 games in to get some better results that ultimately do nothing for our long-term future.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Does anyone here thinks we look absolutely great?

Considering this was our 3rd or 4th game under the manager - im not expecting results but more that i expect to see a plan of a team shape.

I absolutely love it.

We obviously have weaknesses which should improve over time.

However, one thing im confused about is :

1) Why is Amad playing wingback and not Garnacho? Does Amorim only use wingers as a wing bc on the right? Amad could play further up as a RAM and Garnacho deeper back as a LWB.

Has Amorim ever used an inverted winger as a wing back on the left? I only know amorim used Quenda but only on the right flank once again.

2) Similar issue is why is Rashford playing at RF? Why not play him at LF?

It feels like our whole team is lop sided.

Onana
Yoro - De Ligt - Maguire
Mazroui - Ugarte - Bruno - Garnacho
Amad - Rashford
Hojlund
​

How is this any different from his current tactics? Its jut everyone is playing on the opposite side & to me it looks much better and balanced. Even if Rashford shouldnt start, swap him with Bruno or Zirkzee on right and play Mainoo in midfield.

​

 

[Trex]

The role Garnacho starts in is more suited to someone with a Hazard type skillset.
Dalot also would not magically become someone who can produce in the final third, that's a Marcelo type of fullback role.
The number 9 needs to do better holding up the ball and linking play as well as being a goal threat, like prime Benzema, Lewandoski.
All the front five when attacking needs to be potent in their roles otherwise this wouldn't work, the hierarchy has to back him and give him the right tools.
For the mean time get use to this poor displays.

 

[kunal18]

Why he changed the side that won 4-0 against Everton. This is a bad bunch but if he wants to get results from this mediocre team he has to be consistent with the team and not chop and change

 

[CannibalSpectre]

Looking at our upcoming fixtures I think pressure is going to build on him quickly. There will be no talk of patience if we get dragged into a relegation scrap. I can see him abandoning his philosophy and reverting to a tactical setup the players are more comfortable with to get some points on the board.

I think he should persist with his methods and figure out the core of players who will bring us closer to his vision.

The likes of Conte, Tuchel, Guardiola etc never deviated from their process. Yes, our squad is perhaps not as good as the ones I mentioned, but the point remains. We have a lot of misfits in the squad but they can be coached to an acceptable level within this system surely.

The growing pains are unavoidable but I'm feeling good about the prospective payoff. In my opinion Amorim will need at least three good windows to build a squad capable of implementing something much closer to his philosophy.

 

[Maik2022]

I'm a little bit of a coach follower. So when Klopp started i think i watched every Liverpool game for five years, what an amazing ride it was. Never got the United hype, although i grew up with them essentially being the Chicago Bulls of football, never forget 99 as well. So when Rangnick came i just had to follow it and i kind of stayed, now i get the hype. I remember similar discussions about players like Mignolet, Sturridge, Lallana etc. even Henderson was very much questioned. So it's not like every criticized player has to be sold, sometimes they're just used wrong or it's just too much pressure on them. The big plus is, that they scored a lot of goals and trashed some teams. Big similarity and big difference to ETH. All one can do now is hope that they get transfers right and that Amorim is the guy, they will most certainly not qualify for europe next year, and it just can't be expected of Amorim.

 

[devilsadvoca8]

I'm not concerned at all. Let him work with these players and learn who needs to go, I'm sure he knows already. Let him put together his own team and we move from there. Between now and the end of the season, we will have plugged the holes tactically and most players will be used to it and we will see consistent progress form there on. In the summer he will be able to get key personnel in the positions of weakness. Let him cook as they say, he too said "we will suffer" and yesterday was an example. Quit the crying and let him work. You let EtH off the hook even when he wasn't showing ANY signs of progress so let the manager that's been here for less than a month do his thing. What's wrong with some of you?

 

[Crostien]

We have 5 players from the whole squad at this point that were important players under Ole. Lindelöf, Maguire, Bruno, Rashford and Shaw. 3 of them barely play these days. Amad was always on loan or not playing, Dalot the same.

I agree with the tweet but the issue has nothing to do with Ole.

We also came back from losing positions often under Ole. More often than under Rangnick or ETH since. That cannot be achieved with no mental resilience. The players actually believed we could do it and it helped the team collectively achieve it.

The football under him was also the best we've seen post-Ferguson according to both the eye test and underlying metrics. Our players could also use their brains when close to the opponents goal and we showed some great link-up play at times. Better than anything since, that's for sure.

The aforementioned mental issues were alive and well under Ole. Coming back from losing positions better than Reck-It Ralf but no ability to turn this nous into trophies.

The attitude of 'do rightly'. Second place a win. One cup final and a famous defeat. He was frequently outplayed by mediocre managers, especially in the infamous last season.

Sorry, but as much as I love Ole, I don't look back on his reign with any particular fondness.

 

[AndySmith1990]

I'm not concerned at all. Let him work with these players and learn who needs to go, I'm sure he knows already. Let him put together his own team and we move from there. Between now and the end of the season, we will have plugged the holes tactically and most players will be used to it and we will see consistent progress form there on. In the summer he will be able to get key personnel in the positions of weakness. Let him cook as they say, he too said "we will suffer" and yesterday was an example. Quit the crying and let him work. You let EtH off the hook even when he wasn't showing ANY signs of progress so let the manager that's been here for less than a month do his thing. What's wrong with some of you?

Agree with this

 

[waza7111]

He really needed a pre season. It's very difficult to coach a new style of play with minimal training sessions and the games coming thick and fast. He has mentioned this numerous times.

We'll probably finish mid table and that's fine but he shouldn't change the system. Maybe change certain players if it's not working.

 

[RoyH1]

He’s got so much work to do. ETH’s purchases left the squad weakened and incomplete

 

[Jericholyte2]

Does anyone here thinks we look absolutely great?

Considering this was our 3rd or 4th game under the manager - im not expecting results but more that i expect to see a plan of a team shape.

I absolutely love it.

We obviously have weaknesses which should improve over time.

However, one thing im confused about is :

1) Why is Amad playing wingback and not Garnacho? Does Amorim only use wingers as a wing bc on the right? Amad could play further up as a RAM and Garnacho deeper back as a LWB.

Has Amorim ever used an inverted winger as a wing back on the left? I only know amorim used Quenda but only on the right flank once again.

2) Similar issue is why is Rashford playing at RF? Why not play him at LF?

It feels like our whole team is lop sided.

Onana
Yoro - De Ligt - Maguire
Mazroui - Ugarte - Bruno - Garnacho
Amad - Rashford
Hojlund
​

How is this any different from his current tactics? Its jut everyone is playing on the opposite side & to me it looks much better and balanced. Even if Rashford shouldnt start, swap him with Bruno or Zirkzee on right and play Mainoo in midfield.

​

Re: Garnscho at WB: he has nowhere near the work ethic / defensive discipline to be WB.

Re: Rashford at RF. Garnacho, generally, has had better output at LF and the RF is Bruno’s.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Re: Garnscho at WB: he has nowhere near the work ethic / defensive discipline to be WB.

Re: Rashford at RF. Garnacho, generally, has had better output at LF and the RF is Bruno’s.

Personally i think Garnacho would be more defensively capable than Amad. Garnacho has the heart of Tevez.

 

[Wrecking ralf]

I'm not sure him using Martinez constantly as that LCB is the right move. I know he likes a decent ball playing, left footed defender there but Licha has many limitations as a CB. If I'm right on thinking this, Yoro is very capable with his left foot isn't he and has decent height, pace and tackling ability, along with decent passing. Could we move him across?

Mazraoui De Ligt Yoro

If it was possible, this looks a better fit for me. Mazraoui has to play but he is better depoyed on the right. I don't like to shoehorn players in but currently, our options are limited. Martinez could be used there at times or even as the defensive wing back on the left while our LF drifts wide ahead of him.

 

[DJ_21]

He needs to stop changing the team now and settle with an 11. Could understand at the start he was rotating and trying to find his best 11 but it won’t help keep changing teams. They’ll be no momentum or understanding of players if there playing with different players every game. Need consistency

 

[Judas]

A lot of you wanted to give ETH 3 years, but are writing the guy off after a couple of weeks?

Absolute madness. ETH broke you, take a break from football.

Pretty much. Some have totally lost it, and can't stomach anything but instant success. To not have patience for this bloke and to be melting down already is pathetic.

 

[Judas]

Looking at our upcoming fixtures I think pressure is going to build on him quickly. There will be no talk of patience if we get dragged into a relegation scrap. I can see him abandoning his philosophy and reverting to a tactical setup the players are more comfortable with to get some points on the board.

This is genuinely hurting my brain, and I swear you're obsessed with this narrative. Kept saying it under Ten Hag too. Have you some sort of relegation fetish?