This is based on nothing but sheer hope and the old United Fan Cult of the Manager nonsense. How can you be delighted with his performance so far?
Are you seriously suggesting he is NOT implementing his system? When he clearly is and said as such.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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Are you seriously suggesting he is NOT implementing his system? When he clearly is and said as such.
Well said
The formation was not the issue under ETH, it was the whatever the hell "system" he implemented in his second season. It was 4-2-3-1 on paper but it was really more 4-1-4-1 with two 10s.
It’s just easier to say than ‘these players have thrown their respective managers at the time they played under the bus!’
How can I not be? We haven't even seen his system maximised to it's full capability as of yet. For the most part, all we have seen is square pegs in round holes. Occasionally, we'll have a player who perfectly fits what Amorim needs in terms of profile and lo and behold, that player will perform well.
He is implementing his system and he's right to do so. However, like I said, he is working with parts that are suboptimal for what he needs and yet, he is being criticised for it's performance? Do you not understand how backwards that sounds?
Grand solution? Don't be pathetic mate.
Funny thing, that same Dalot, back when he was playing in his position (albeit prior to injury) was our player of the season '23-24 iirc.
Unlike Hoijlund, Zirkzee, Fernandes, he's got some pace and, as stated earlier, can occasionally dribble past his man.
But hey, that setup and lineup against Everton did wonders, for us, so there's no need to change. Front trio was buzzing all around creating like prime RRT.
If you play Dorgu on the right, who's going to play on the left?
Yeah but that was at RB, not RW. Yeah he was player of the season but that’s a further indictment on the rest of the squad because it’s not like he was a superstar or anything. He’s just not that good - squad player at best.
Nothing is going to get this squad playing well this season, because there are too many issues with it. We need better players - that’s my point. 3-4 quality players that know his system will do us wonders.
After over 700 pages, can someone please comment how his system doesn't suit the players?
Such a refreshing argument, adds so much to the discussion!
Such a refreshing argument, adds so much to the discussion!
Right. Talented coach who understands his system but can't get us performing against the run of the mills teams and needs a last minute deflected shot against Fulham or a 10-minute inspired performance from Amad to win against Southampton.
Not to mention the weird decision to play the new LWB at RWB in his first game at this club or shifting Bruno and Mazraoui around different positions or the crazy phase of play during the Everton game where our only natural CM(Ugarte) was popping up at right wing. There is no way this squad is 17th best in the league(which is what the table suggests since Amorims come in), so he's underperforming massively. If he was as talented as you think, he should comfortably have us around midtable, not flirt with relegation form.
ETH was all of those you mentioned as well but it didn't mean he came good here. I judge Amorim based on his time here and so far he's been comfortably the worst we've had since SAF. Can he improve? Maybe, but nothing on the pitch suggests we are improving and that is why comments like yours are baffling which appear to be clinging to blind hope than anything.
Oh so that was the system problem and now its the formation issue...
Maybe you've missed the part in which i wrote that unlike the other 3 players mentioned, he's got some pace and skills to beat his man.
Changes need to be made, and with the personnel at hand, this is the best i could come up with, because the current system isn't working.
I disagree with the notion that the whole squad is crap and that need be changed. Everyone's quick to point that we managed some good football against City, Arse and Poop. What gives?
These are just buzzwords and hyperbole.
'a striker who can score'
'another quality wingback'
'a midfielder who can control a ball'
Assuming we don't win the EL we are going to be shopping at the car boot sale this summer. The worry is that basically every single player looked better last season, that is first priority for Ruben, work with what he has and get it functional, then he should be backed in the summer.
Quite a lot actually:
Not giving up when the going gets tough
Understanding that a manager change mid-season would be difficult
Going back to what the players 'understand' - aka 4231 - would be disasterous and get us going further backwards than forwards because we'd have to implement 3421 yet again next season and go through this shite, yet again.
Backing the manager in the summer and getting players in to suit his system
Actually having some patience
Realising that we're actually doing really well in Europe and can win the thing
Sticking with what we have right now, because it's all we have and hope the training sessions actually get through to the players and dropping those who are definitely not getting it.
NOT throwing the kids in, because Chido-Obi's 20min cameo proved he simply isn't ready.
So yeah, I'm all for sticking with Ruben, I'm sick and tired of getting rid of managers.
This is the part that always baffles me. There's 0 improvement since he took over, if anything players have further regressed and we're worse for it. Yet there are people that are shrugging it all off, and would be willing to give him more time and grant his transfer wishes.
Not an ounce of scrutiny towards him.
Again, judging us this season is a complete irrelevance. Also, for your benefit, I've seen Liverpool stumble over the line against Southampton. I've seen Arsenal draw at Fulham, let alone win, like we did.
There's absolutely nothing weird about playing Dorgu on the right side. More nonsense that has been blown out of proportion. Dorgu has played on the right plenty of times and it just so happens that Amorim values a left footer on the right. We've played Amad there a lot and we are also heavily pursuing Quenda. You think Amorim likes playing Dalot there? We aren't flirting with relegation. That's another Redcafe-ism that has been polluting the forum.
Ten Hag was nothing like Amorim. Amorim has a clear system he wants us to play. Ten Hag ditched his initial idea after two minutes, declared he couldn't play something so sophisticated here and lost himself in the coin toss that is transition based football.
Yea it's baffling alright. No one is asking Amorim to display title winning form but for us to not even appear as a competent team is on him.
He's had the least expectations of any manager we've hired since SAF as lot of people have effectively written off the season since November but apparently relegation form is okay and there are no issues with Amorim.
The problem with all of this, is that its the same as Ruben Amorim..
Talk is great but reality is different.
Why would anyone back the manager in the summer that suit his system when he has shown basically nothing to suggest he can get things right?
What will patience do? He wont magically become a better manager/ coach overnight.
We are getting worse by every training session, he has had 4 weeks of training all week and we are getting worse by the week.
I don't think he should be backed at all in the summer if we dont improve, otherwise we will be in the same position with another manager this time next year.
The only thing Amorim has been good at since he has come in is talk.. a politician really, says one thing does another.
Ridiculous, look at this whole thread, there's PLENTY of people scrutinising him.
If you can't see the clear improvements since he took over, just blind to it and hoping he gets the sack.
Sacking him won't fix anything by the way, whoever comes in will face the same issues.
Agree to disagree that Dalot would have any significant difference playing as a winger. In any case, in the current system the wingbacks are essentially our wingers so he’s already playing the role you want.
We did well against the teams that attacked us. We struggle, like we have the last 5 years, breaking down teams that are not constantly at us. That’s where we need the system coupled with better attacking and midfield quality to click. We’re not there yet, clearly.
No problem mate, you have your opinion and whilst i disagree with it, i respect it.
Tell me some signs, indications, assurances that you're getting from our current performances that have instilled sure sense of belief in our current manager and that the things would change if he's given time and 100s of millions to spend?
Mind you, every manager post SAF, outside of Moyes, was given time and money, yet here we are.
Mate I'm clearly referring to people that are relying on hope and pure faith, I'm saying there's no scrutiny from them.
EDIT: Please walk me through those "improvemens", but please only pitch regarded. Not interested in "he's well spoken", "he's gotten rid of Antony, Rashford".
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And was criticised for doing so. Couldn’t make it up!
Patience. In the sense that in pre-season he will have 8 weeks + to implement his training session, day after day after day.
If the players still don't get it then yeah of course, questions need to be answered, but by that point, you'd think he'd have 3-4 new players in to help that.
Not backing the manager with players simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever, it will in fact make use worse! Be like trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We all know he needs better players. So why not give them to him.
We all know that if he had gone City, he'd have them playing his style of play a lot quicker than at Man Utd and we'd all be crying and whinging and moaning as to why we don't get coaches like that and at how inept we are.
There has been plenty of small patterns of play that prove that he has improved us as a squad. Just look at the Liverpool and Arsenal games for two stand out games where we played much much better.
I still of the belief that if we had kept Ole we'd be in a better position now than ever. The signing of Ronaldo killed that momentum.
I mean, it was obviously the system in THAT case. With Amorim it could well be both.
According to people that are familiar with his body of work, defense is his forte, and with us being a counter attacking side for the better part of the past 10 years, it's all natural for that aspect of the game to be similar.
But breaking down sides in Portugal and in EPL is very different. His formation doesn't give us many options in breaking down opponents that are comfortable sitting back and countering.
Is he learned on the job?
You can't please all of the people all of the time. Though it doesn't help things when people are determined to wallow in negativity.
What else can Amorim change the next months? We all know the players are not good enough but the window is closed. A bit of tactics actually won us the FA cup.
There's no guarantee that he'll get vastly better players, especially if we crash out of the Europa. We'll be taking more wild gambles again in the market. I mean, we're talking about a club that recently signed two of the worst strikers in our history simultaneously somehow. The job at Manchester United right now is a job in which you have to be adaptable and get the best out of what you have, and based on the evidence so far we've seen very little to suggest that he's capable of doing that.
Which small patterns? Few times we've beaten the press, but we also did that under ETH.
I agree with the notion that Ronaldo signing killed the momentum, but can't say what would have happened.
A striker who can score is hyperbole now? Our standards really have dropped.
Some of you think managers are some kind of magical genies who can turn shite into gold. Look at Pep now that his squad has aged just that little bit. You can be the best manager in the world but if your squad contains strikers who manage 2 goals in 21 games, or old men who can barely run in midfield, you aren’t going to win too many games.
Just have some patience while we bring in a few players that can actually play the way he wants us to play. It’s not difficult.
Eh? That was EtH.
You will be hard pressed to find a striker that thrives with 0 service.
Like Hojlund then
A good striker gets in the positions he needs to score goals. Hojlund doesn’t do that. No doubt we can improve our attacking play but no way Hojlund escapes criticism.
That Arsenal game is fecking hyped on here beyond all proportion in the 1st half with 11 players we had 4 shots with 2 of them being pure speculative efforts from outside the box, we got a result and thats good but even with 11 were 2nd best throughout and under the cosh
Solely ETH? I wanted him gone more than anyone but putting these transfers solely on him is ridiculous. Our scouting network has been a shambles for over a decade now.
He was clearly a big factor given the number of players that had already played for him.
When he came in I remember the fans saying just get this man whatever he wants, primarily because our scouting had been awful. So we did, and it got even worse
Fair point.
I suppose what I'm getting at is the players weren't necessarily bad players/poor signings. Clearly something goes wrong when they get here.
Other big clubs make players better. We are the place where potential goes to die.
Di Maria was probably 3rd-5th best player in the world when he arrived and yet (aside from a few matches) was a complete disaster.
It's the same with countless others.
Why are these players not performing? It can't be purely an attitude thing can it? Maybe for one or two but not everyone.
Like Hojlund then
We have seen some nice finishes from him, on rare occasions when he had some service. Of course he missed a chance or two as well.
We're simply so dire, we can't create chances. Dreadful setup with dysfunctional lineup.
Our attack boils down to endless sideways/backward passing, long ball hail Mary and occasional cross. That's pretty much it.
The cup game? 11 vs 11 we were winning the game. The only reason it was a contest was because of Dalot's red card. We were going through all along.